share a voice comm, it's not that unusual.

Yup because we know everybody's comms and we know magically who were going to be qued with. And even then some people cannot tab out and join stuff quick enough anyways. Get serious with your answers lol

You don't need cross server que. The only reason the the pool for rated wz is small is because the larger experienced PvP guilds have rofl stomped the casual teams. If they introduce brackets or something to that effect more people will play and be able to gain experience.

Even if they did add brackets or a better matchmaking system you're probably going to still have 2-4 teams queuing at best which means either all teams will end up facing each other or you will face the same team over, and over, and over, and over again which gets pretty stale pretty fast.

They need to add incentives to do ranked.

I think the problem is just the lack of teams. Its discouraging for new teams when they queue and face the best teams on the server and get rolled, they usually stop queuing all together. They need cross server with an actual matchmaking, I am not sure if they even have one now but if they did it does not work when there are only three teams in the queue you are going to face both of them regardless of your teams ranking.

This.

All the PVP elites on PVE servers would be ROFLSTOMPED if they went against PVPers of a PVP server.

 

 

They'd complain and want the old system back.

 

I beg to differ:rak_03: and if we ever get cross server - I hope to see you.

All the PVP elites on PVE servers would be ROFLSTOMPED if they went against PVPers of a PVP server.

 

 

They'd complain and want the old system back.

 

Whatever helps you sleep at night.

As of now there is no real incentive for new teams to start out. They just get blown away by the teams that have been doing ranked for months and quit, never putting in any effort which sucks.

Do you mean that in the match they don't put in any effort? Sometimes it's a struggle just to defend your home node and not get 3-capped. And a 3-cap is exactly what most butt-hat premades try to do when they realize they are facing a less experienced team.

Or do you mean they don't try to improve? If we can agree that the only meaningful way for an 8-man ranked team to work on its game is to all play together, then they need to work on their game in ranked warzones. Now I am a total believer that playing people better than you will make you better. But it has to be people a little better than you. Not "Dude who just learned what en-passant means" versus Vladimir Kramnick.

I guess my point is that it's wrong to put all the blame on the new teams who get destroyed.

Do you mean that in the match they don't put in any effort? Sometimes it's a struggle just to defend your home node and not get 3-capped. And a 3-cap is exactly what most butt-hat premades try to do when they realize they are facing a less experienced team.

 

Or do you mean they don't try to improve? If we can agree that the only meaningful way for an 8-man ranked team to work on its game is to all play together, then they need to work on their game in ranked warzones. Now I am a total believer that playing people better than you will make you better. But it has to be people a little better than you. Not "Dude who just learned what en-passant means" versus Vladimir Kramnick.

 

I guess my point is that it's wrong to put all the blame on the new teams who get destroyed.

I could have worded that better. They get beat a few times and stop putting in effort to improve or just stop queuing all together. In the guild I am in we are on life support right now, we have had several people quit because they thought we were to focused on PvE, which is another point that its hard to get consistent groups running as often as possible. That's one of my beefs with wanting to do away with groups in regs, you need experience playing with other people who you plan on doing ranked with.

I am not trying to blame anyone especially new teams. I mean we took a pretty big break from rateds and had a pretty consistent thing going and barely got our feet wet before people started jumping ship when things got rough so I have experienced first hand what its like for new teams or teams that are not able to run as often go through.

All the PVP elites on PVE servers would be ROFLSTOMPED if they went against PVPers of a PVP server.

 

 

They'd complain and want the old system back.

 

Having cross server queues could prove you wrong! Oh noes!!

Bioware says it would ruin community as an excuse because it sounds better than "We can't do it"

And is this another thread saying "Make this game easier and less competitive"?

I agree that this game needs cross server queue's... but a 4 man group in rated would get roflstompled by any decent guild out there. So it would quickly become useless.

If you want an unorganized game with a 4 man queue... you have one already. Sorry there isn't an easier way to farm ranked coms.

I could have worded that better. They get beat a few times and stop putting in effort to improve or just stop queuing all together. In the guild I am in we are on life support right now, we have had several people quit because they thought we were to focused on PvE, which is another point that its hard to get consistent groups running as often as possible. That's one of my beefs with wanting to do away with groups in regs, you need experience playing with other people who you plan on doing ranked with.

 

I am not trying to blame anyone especially new teams. I mean we took a pretty big break from rateds and had a pretty consistent thing going and barely got our feet wet before people started jumping ship when things got rough so I have experienced first hand what its like for new teams or teams that are not able to run as often go through.

I kind of know where you're coming from. We used to do rateds, and when I played on our A-team it was a lot of fun, win or lose. We beat some pretty decent teams and the matches were almost always close. When a better Guardian (no doubt about it, he is better) joined our guild, I was usually benched. Sometimes we had enough people on to field a "decent" B-team, but we never queued more than a couple of games. Between not playing with each other enough, having "wrong" classes, and sub-optimal gear we simply didn't feel viable.

In other words I have seen first hand the difference between competitiveness and hopelessness in the ranked bracket and it is a stark difference. It's hard to blame new teams for getting discouraged, and a lot of times I wish the better teams would keep that in mind when they almost seem to go out of their way to make the match unpleasant for the underdog.

By the way, sometimes our A-team and B-team would get to play each other and it was pretty cool. A lot of us agreed that we would play those matches even if they didn't give rewards, if we could control it.

I could have worded that better. They get beat a few times and stop putting in effort to improve or just stop queuing all together. In the guild I am in we are on life support right now, we have had several people quit because they thought we were to focused on PvE, which is another point that its hard to get consistent groups running as often as possible. That's one of my beefs with wanting to do away with groups in regs, you need experience playing with other people who you plan on doing ranked with.

 

I am not trying to blame anyone especially new teams. I mean we took a pretty big break from rateds and had a pretty consistent thing going and barely got our feet wet before people started jumping ship when things got rough so I have experienced first hand what its like for new teams or teams that are not able to run as often go through.

It's funny you mention this but this is a good point I think for some people, like myself, who would love to do more RWZ. I've had issues in the past with being in guilds who "PvP'" but ultimately focus on PvE.

The last guild I was in, I knew they were primarily PvE and I was okay with that because finding a PvP focused guild is tougher than it seems. Sure guilds "PvP" but they are not a PvP guild in the sense of what I am looking for. They don't try to better themselves and they correlate their knowledge and skill in PvP based on regulars. While some people may be strong in regular WZs, there is a learning curve in RWZ that most of the self proclaimed "pros" can't get past because it requires too much effort and patience of other individuals.

People hate to lose, myself included but I also don't mind putting in effort to get better. If I ever do reach the mentality of "I'm too good for this game" then I'm probably done with it by that time anyways.

The other thing that keeps me from finding a PvP oriented guild is that a lot of them last for a month then disband. Idk if it's together, they are not as good as they thought while in regs or what the problem is but new "PvP guilds" show up every month....only a few stay and those are the ones dominating the RWZ scene.

Ok I'll bite.

 

1. You say that since other MMOs have specific class requirements for end game PvP that it's ok for TOR to have the same. I can't argue against that if you're fine with poor game mechanics.

 

It's a common occurrence for classes in MMO's to be pushed to the side in favor of the on that can do the roll better. The only way to stop this is really to normalize the few class and then you're going to start lacking diversity because of this. It would be extremely hard to balance this out and even then I don't think anyone is going to run 1 of every class. Really though it's what two classes in this game that don't thrive in ranked pvp and it's dps merc and operative?

 

2. You ask what is wrong with requiring 8 people for end game pvp? It's a combination of many things. You need 8 people in a group first off, 2nd each of the 8 have to have the correct class/spec, 3rd each of the 8 need to meet the gear requirements, 4th each of the 8 need to be on at the same time, 5th they require all of those things but on other teams, 6th at least one of those teams has to have 8 others currently online (and queuing). Say 3 teams are queuing, two teams get in a RWZ, the 3rd team has to wait and hope they get chosen for the next match, but they don't know if there will be a next match. Then people log or do other things in game. I could go on but you get the point in why it's limiting in it's design.

 

I don't see how any of your 6 points here are a problem at all? The same exact thing goes for pve with the exception of the 6th thing. The only real way to fix that 3 teams thing is to try to get more people to do rateds. There are PLENTY of people on POT5 who don't have a team and are willing to run and can fill the roles to make an effective team comp, people are just lazy and don't seem to want to put the effort in to lead any of that stuff.

 

3. You say what's wrong with voice coms? Personally I don't think there is anything wrong with them. I simply said it's limiting that a video game requires it's players to use other companies software (and no I'm not talking Windows/etc.). They could create an in game voice chat to allow voice communication even in pugs. Take away the hurdles (even the simple ones) and it will increase game play.

 

Seriously if your'e playing online video games and you think it's a hassle to DL 1 of or all of the normal voice comms out there, you're probably not going to be good enough to actually be top tier anyways.

 

I'm not opposed to them adding in a voice comm system just don't let it be garbo like WoW's was.

 

4. You're saying there is nothing wrong with having no new pvp content for end game. I don't know if I understand your point. I think you're saying that it's fine there is no new content for end game, I'm just not sure why anyone would be ok with that. Having no new content but calling it "end game" is limiting.

 

No i'm saying there is nothing wrong with the map choices in the way they are for normals and rateds. We should be able to play all of the maps no matter what type of war zones we're doing. Of course I want new maps and warzones man.

 

5. You say there are plenty of people who want to pvp? Duh. Of course there are, where did you see me say otherwise?

 

Not enough put for the effort to do rateds and that's a large part of the problem

 

6. You say two good teams that stalemate in instanced pvp aren't coordinated because one can't "wipe" the other? Are you under the impression that in RWZs one team has to wipe the other to win? I don't believe you think that.

 

No i'm not saying they have to wipe but they're obviously not coordinated enough in their use of CC either.

 

7. You say there is a guild vs guild mechanic in RWZs. I know what you are suggesting but, really haha? You are going to stand by your statement that TOR is designed with a guild vs guild mechanic built in?

 

Saying it's good enough for now, stop the QQ. Does it really matter? Naw, there is always outlaws den you can guild v guild in too man.

 

8. You say you can practice your RWZ team in regs. This makes me think you don't even pvp in this game, but I know you do. How do you practice your 8 man team strats in groups of 4? Answer, you can't.

 

Well you give the whole group strats and hope the pugs listen. It's not hard to get a basic idea of what you should be doing in a war zone on a reg level, nor is it hard to ask other teams for strats on what they could do. I'd happily help here to anyone that really needs it.

 

I know you're being standoffish and defending TOR, but you can't seriously believe the RWZ system they put in place is adequate for an active pvp base. 6 months of pre-season? Like I said in my previous post, it is limited.

What would help rateds a ton is just more people doing them in general. With this small of a pool doing rwz's it's not helping anything TBH. If everyone that really wanted to play RWZ's tried to go and play RWZ's the whole thing would be much better than it is. Things like cross server would help this a lot. Some of these little things dont matter much.

And yeah why isn't this pre-season gone yet? I don't get it... They could of released season 1 with EWH. Would of been great.

The other thing that keeps me from finding a PvP oriented guild is that a lot of them last for a month then disband. Idk if it's together, they are not as good as they thought while in regs or what the problem is but new "PvP guilds" show up every month....only a few stay and those are the ones dominating the RWZ scene.

I chalk it up to team stacking - the revolving door of top players trying to group up and be on the same team so they can tell themselves they are the best. Imagine if one of the teams in MLB was the American League All Star Team.

What this game really needs is a league and a draft system like the NFL!

I chalk it up to team stacking - the revolving door of top players trying to group up and be on the same team so they can tell themselves they are the best. Imagine if one of the teams in MLB was the American League All Star Team.

 

What this game really needs is a league and a draft system like the NFL!

What are you talking about they have the yankees!!! lol But you are right once you are on top nobody wants to go to the bottom. So of course you take the best players instead of developing.

smashers and hiders. these were Op at start in 2011 and still are. i dont think something will change here. shame on a game that could have offered a really exciting pvp gameplay. but look at the damage done and objective done...it's always the same classes, even when you're BISed.

Bioware are the masters of story lines and solo gaming, but when it comes to pvp, they fail so much. even after 13(14)? months, the pvp is still the same bc, same classes Op, same classes no chance.

The best part of SWtoR PvP is its high complexity compared to PvP in other MMOs. It's good because it really allows player skill rather than other variables to become the dominant factor in determining who wins a battle. For example the difference in effectiveness for a player in full WH gear vs. that same player in full EWH augmented gear is maybe 10-15%. But a high skill player is easily 50% or more effective than a low skill player.

However the side effect of having a complex combat system is that the high skill players are operating at a level so far above the low skill players that the low skill players view the learning curve as simply too steep.

It's just not clear how (if it is possible at all) to reconcile that steep learning curve without removing the combat system's complexity.

What would help rateds a ton is just more people doing them in general. With this small of a pool doing rwz's it's not helping anything TBH. If everyone that really wanted to play RWZ's tried to go and play RWZ's the whole thing would be much better than it is. Things like cross server would help this a lot. Some of these little things dont matter much.

 

Thats the problem, you need 8 people and 8 other people on another team at the same time. I remember back when I did rateds there would be days when it would take over an hour to assemble a team, and sometimes we would que for over an hour without getting a single match. It would be literally 3 hours of time to get 2 or 3 matches in and over 2 hours of sitting around... Sound like fun? This whole lack of rated teams / players is a real issue; weve been dreaming of cross-server for months, and all the while more people are leaving the game.

Perhaps don't make it for 2x4 man groups, but for 6v6 ?

Easier to fill such a group and 6 ppl can be enouph to play in any map, w.o pugs.

I'm not sure why bioware thinks the cross-server would kill the community. We can't even talk to the other faction on our own servers. When I kill them in open world or in warzones, I dont even know WHO i killed because I dont bother even looking at their names because it doesn't matter.

 

This game HAS NO COMMUNITY......Im all for cross-server pvp

this ...

Thats the problem, you need 8 people and 8 other people on another team at the same time. I remember back when I did rateds there would be days when it would take over an hour to assemble a team, and sometimes we would que for over an hour without getting a single match. It would be literally 3 hours of time to get 2 or 3 matches in and over 2 hours of sitting around... Sound like fun? This whole lack of rated teams / players is a real issue; weve been dreaming of cross-server for months, and all the while more people are leaving the game.

You know, I haven't experienced that samething. Sitting around in queue waiting and have nothing happen.

Players are the real issue. New teams getting crapped all over doesn't help anything. Lack of players wanting to join the whole ordeal screws over brackets at this time and lack of cross server doesn't help much there either. If all the servers linked up to 1 just for rated warzones i'm sure the pool would be huge and the amount of people willing to play then could be outstanding.

Getting 8 people should be no problem. I used to be officer in a RWZ guild and on a good day i'd have to turn down 3 people from being tried out and then we had quite a few people in the guild who were just sitting around while we did rateds then they'd complain they all didn't get to go. So there is currently plenty of interest just everyone wants to be on the good teams and play with those people instead of trying to make something else.

What would help rateds a ton is just more people doing them in general. With this small of a pool doing rwz's it's not helping anything TBH. If everyone that really wanted to play RWZ's tried to go and play RWZ's the whole thing would be much better than it is. Things like cross server would help this a lot. Some of these little things dont matter much.

 

And yeah why isn't this pre-season gone yet? I don't get it... They could of released season 1 with EWH. Would of been great.

I agree with you. There is a lot of player base that wants to pvp, but they don't want to do ranked (as it stands now). I wouldn't go so far as blaming players for not organizing, many don't see it as worth it. I still keep to my original opinion that the limiting design and lack of content is why ranked has failed thus far (and regs are stating to follow). Like many others I've wasted plenty of time over the past 1/2 year trying to do ranked. (I used to play 3-4 hours a day, now I play 1-3 hours every few days) And after all of this time I'm close to convinced that pvp in this game is a failure. Anyway, we all looked at ranked as a place where the "best pvpers in the game can play against each other". We were wrong to think so. I do not believe that playing the same 5 WZs can prove/test anything about pvp "skill". Some of the best (skill/fun) pvp I've had in this game has happened in Section X. Ok, I'm hungover in the office and rambling.

Last thing I'll say is that cross server queuing would probably be rough to implement. With no way to organize (in game, again limiting) when teams on all the servers would be queuing it would still be hit or miss. They need to create a queue board (or something similar) so people across servers can see how many teams are queuing. Even if they added that for single server it would go a long way.

I agree with you. There is a lot of player base that wants to pvp, but they don't want to do ranked (as it stands now). I wouldn't go so far as blaming players for not organizing, many don't see it as worth it. I still keep to my original opinion that the limiting design and lack of content is why ranked has failed thus far (and regs are stating to follow). Like many others I've wasted plenty of time over the past 1/2 year trying to do ranked. (I used to play 3-4 hours a day, now I play 1-3 hours every few days) And after all of this time I'm close to convinced that pvp in this game is a failure. Anyway, we all looked at ranked as a place where the "best pvpers in the game can play against each other". We were wrong to think so. I do not believe that playing the same 5 WZs can prove/test anything about pvp "skill". Some of the best (skill/fun) pvp I've had in this game has happened in Section X. Ok, I'm hungover in the office and rambling.

 

Last thing I'll say is that cross server queuing would probably be rough to implement. With no way to organize (in game, again limiting) when teams on all the servers would be queuing it would still be hit or miss. They need to create a queue board (or something similar) so people across servers can see how many teams are queuing. Even if they added that for single server it would go a long way.

I fully blame the players. Having an MMO background of playing Star Wars Galaxies where there was basically ZERO content as far as pvp goes (just flag pvp and go find people) it was all up to the players to create the pvp and do things to keep it going and it would keep going for hours and hours at a time. This is an MMO, Play the game, make some friends, do the things you want to do. It shouldn't be up to Bioware to do everything for us to make the game playable. Some things the players do need to control. (Like the whole OWpvp situation) Sure changes DO NEED to be made for rateds, wont disagree there.

IDK if cross server were added a lot of stuff could be fixed to help rateds like actual bracketing system so the top tier teams are stomping out the newbie teams. We need the population and people to be able to make all this effective.