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Hardcore players are bane of mmos in current stage


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Not just in SWTOR but in every other mmo developers always try to satisfie two group of player: casuals and professional/hardcores.

The problem is that majority(casuals) simply can't be satisfied if hardcores(absolute minority 1-2% of all players) can be.

Hardcore players have all content avalable, while casuals(not very skilled players) have only part of it. Tthey want more, but they can't because they don't have enough skill - as result they quit which is bad for a game

Until developers forget about these cancerous hardcore communities and make mmo easy and happy for casuals, mmos will die. This same thing applies to wow, swtor and different mmos.

 

And the solution is simple - remove hard pve content.

Who want some challenge - pvp is your home.

Edited by onegoldpls
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Funny. First it was all you filthy hardcores go to hardmode and get out of story mode. Now it's oh you filthy hardcores you go to pvp get out of my pve.

 

That axe you're grinding has to be sharp enough at this point in time right? For a hardcore player who's 8/10 you sure are the champion for the lower tiers aren't you.

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Here's an alternative viewpoint:

 

Not every bit of content in an MMO has to appeal to every single player in it.

 

Some like crafting. Others don't. Some like PvP. Others don't. Some like group content. Others don't. Some like space PvP. Others don't. Some like datacron hunting. Others don't. etc. etc. etc.

 

What's wrong with an MMO having niche content that isn't consumed by the majority of players?

Edited by Khevar
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Here's an alternative viewpoint:

 

Not every bit of content in an MMO has to appeal to every single player in it.

 

Some like crafting. Others don't. Some like PvP. Others don't. Some like group content. Others don't. Some like space PvP. Others don't. Some like datacron hunting. Others don't. etc. etc. etc.

 

What's wrong with an MMO having niche content that isn't consumed by the majority of players?

 

This. There are things I don't like (pvp) but I know there are people that do and they should have the content they like as well as what I like.

 

They should not focus on one group.

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Not just in SWTOR but in every other mmo developers always try to satisfie two group of player: casuals and professional/hardcores.

The problem is that majority(casuals) simply can't be satisfied if hardcores(absolute minority 1-2% of all players) can be.

Hardcore players have all content avalable, while casuals(not very skilled players) have only part of it. Tthey want more, but they can't because they don't have enough skill - as result they quit which is bad for a game

Until developers forget about these cancerous hardcore communities and make mmo easy and happy for casuals, mmos will die. This same thing applies to wow, swtor and different mmos.

 

And the solution is simple - remove hard pve content.

Who want some challenge - pvp is your home.

 

Oh boy shots fired. For someone who is on Cora and Revan you do like to QQ a lot about content called HARDMODE like it's right there in the title FFS

Edited by FerkWork
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watch all the casual players leave the game as soon as they are done with the story(most of them even leave without completing the story). Casual players are just that, casual. If some other game peaks their interest, say bye bye swtor. Remember what happened when diablo 3 came out? Edited by mynameisbugged
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It is a matter of degree.

You chop the current "hardcore" out. Then there is the hardcore end of the casuals.

You can turn the game into Angry Birds but then Candy Crush is more accessible.

 

If accessibility/popularity is the sole measurement, why even make pc games?

 

That's the problem when publishers acquired studios. There is a natural healthy tension when you have different stakeholders in the business process.

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Here's an alternative viewpoint:

 

Not every bit of content in an MMO has to appeal to every single player in it.

 

Some like crafting. Others don't. Some like PvP. Others don't. Some like group content. Others don't. Some like space PvP. Others don't. Some like datacron hunting. Others don't. etc. etc. etc.

 

What's wrong with an MMO having niche content that isn't consumed by the majority of players?

A good point, but.. Some enjoy hunting those blasted datacrons?

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@Elusive_Thing:

Yes, i love it to get the datacrons. Its fun. Only the long wait (tatooine baloon) are booring unless other people are on the baloon. Then you can have some fun conversations.

Huh, I thought you people were just urban legends! I got mine just for minmaxing and the Legacy title.

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watch all the casual players leave the game as soon as they are done with the story(most of them even leave without completing the story). Casual players are just that, casual. If some other game peaks their interest, say bye bye swtor. Remember what happened when diablo 3 came out?

 

This. It's a delicate balance that's needed between more dedicated hardcore players and casuals. Catering specifically to one or the other is a recipe for failure, and telling an entire group of players to go sit and twirl on it generally backfires.

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What's wrong with an MMO having niche content that isn't consumed by the majority of players?

 

What the reason to have it besides "every mmo has it"? If the game had some serious competetive challenge with thousands of viewers on twicth, I would agree. Otherwise it's just pointless. Hardcore gaming era is over. But mmos are still made by the same old pattern. People want easy stuff and that's the reason why moba/fps games surpass mmos these days.

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This. It's a delicate balance that's needed between more dedicated hardcore players and casuals. Catering specifically to one or the other is a recipe for failure, and telling an entire group of players to go sit and twirl on it generally backfires.

 

Depends on the definition of casual and hardcore. I wouldn't consider someone who plays 5-6 hours on weekdays a casual just because he doesn't do OPs. Part of the problem is that hardcore PVE is an exclusive club. If you don't have the achievements to show you *may* get a chance to prove yourself if you pass the TS interview. Some of us have played MMOs for longer than those "hardcore players" are alive, and don't feel a need to prove themselves.

 

Some of those hardcore players don't even play an MMO. There is no "massive multiplayer" involved in spending all your time in instanced areas with the same 7 players. So here we have the small group of hardcore players that love to keep to themselves, and there we have that mass that wants content that can be played without bootlicking the elite. Of course, whenever such content is released the elite claims there is no new content, and because they have lots of time to spend until the other 7 players are online as well, they can be very vocal on the forums.

 

PVP is very different, the "hardcore" PVErs wouldn't feel at home there. In PVP the "hardcore" people know each other, even if they are in different factions. Even if you tried, you can't reliably avoid meeting new players and see them in action, so you come to know the good players. The tone may be a bit rough at times, but it's a social gaming mode, where you meet new people and have to deal with their quirks, just like pugging for FPs and daily ops is. All those modes require what the "hardcore players" in their ivory tower prefer to avoid - situational awareness and quick thinking, because "no plan survives the first encounter with the enemy" - even more so when that enemy is an incompetent ally.

Edited by Mubrak
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What the reason to have it besides "every mmo has it"? If the game had some serious competetive challenge with thousands of viewers on twicth, I would agree. Otherwise it's just pointless. Hardcore gaming era is over. But mmos are still made by the same old pattern. People want easy stuff and that's the reason why moba/fps games surpass mmos these days.

Your OP focused on something called "hardcore players"

 

I don't think that word means what you think it means. SWTOR has done extremely little in support of "hardcore MMO raiding" since late 2013. And for the future? As far as I know there are no plans to develop "Nightmare mode" operations ever again.

 

So what is left? Moderately challenging 4-16 player content. Is that your big objection? Players that enjoy that type of content are defined by you as "hardcore" and somehow are "the bane of mmos?"

 

There are many parts of this game that I don't enjoy and I don't participate in. But I don't express the monumental hubris to expect the developers to remove them.

 

:rolleyes:

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The process goes something like this:

  1. A new MMO is made. It is pretty challenging and appeals to hardcore players.
  2. Some casuals find and try the game as well. Maybe they're friends of the hardcore players, or just thought the graphics look nice.
  3. More and more casuals flock to the game. Those that reach the endgame start complaining that it's too hard.
  4. The company that made the game takes note of the situation and nerfs the content.
  5. Eventually the hardcore players find the game boring and move elsewhere. Many of them are wistful as they remember how challenging the game used to be.

This happens especially to the big games. Some smaller ones, like Path of Exile (not a true MMO, I know) and Eve Online have managed to keep their head and retained their challenge after years or decades. But mostly, it's the casuals who destroy games, not the hardcore players.

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Your OP focused on something called "hardcore players"

 

I don't think that word means what you think it means. SWTOR has done extremely little in support of "hardcore MMO raiding" since late 2013. And for the future? As far as I know there are no plans to develop "Nightmare mode" operations ever again.

 

 

Current hardmodes are equal or somewhere much harder than any old nims by far(when they were actual content too). My whole point is stopping making content for "famous 1% of players" at all.

 

But mostly, it's the casuals who destroy games, not the hardcore players.

See wildstar.

Edited by onegoldpls
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My whole point is stopping making content for "famous 1% of players" at all.

See, I think that's just selfish on your part.

 

I don't demand the devs stop making parts of the game I don't like or play. I simply exercise my right to not do those things in the game.

 

:eek::eek::eek:

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Am I the only one who doesn't believe OP is 8/10? "Omggg its so hard nerf everything" is just not the attitude of someone so far into progression. :rak_01: Then there is persistent belief that "casuals" are braindead orangutans that must be sponfed everything... Edited by iusCogens
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Am I the only one who doesn't believe OP is 8/10? "Omggg its so hard nerf everything" is just not the attitude of someone so far into progression. :rak_01:

 

Pics or it didn't happen as my grandpappy used to say ;)

Edited by FerkWork
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watch all the casual players leave the game as soon as they are done with the story(most of them even leave without completing the story). Casual players are just that, casual. If some other game peaks their interest, say bye bye swtor. Remember what happened when diablo 3 came out?

 

Thats garbage. I'm a casual player. I play for story and fun gameplay. And i could play this game for years ( maybe an occasional sub laps trough burnout), even repeating all content, provided an adequate community, environment and a smidgen of new features, every six months or so. Theres always new thing to do and try, if you dont rush yourself.

 

Of course they are players, that always move to the next big thing. But provide specific content for a specific crowd and a respectful and social community and any MMO can thrive.

 

And im absolutely fine with Hard Core Content, being out of my reach. I still like to be eligible to quality for SM content though, without people expecting pro MLG preparation, skill and time completion. Ill tell you the problem with Hard Core players. They expect the same performance from everyone else, they expect Company A to cater mostly to them(since their are the upper echelon), they rush trough everything, their arrogant and condescending and sometimes they just don't care about other people's experience. Of course that is and HUGE MEGA over-generalization, but you get my point.

 

See, I think that's just selfish on your part.

 

I don't demand the devs stop making parts of the game I don't like or play. I simply exercise my right to not do those things in the game.

 

:eek::eek::eek:

 

Agreed. There should always be ways for the best of the best to test themselves. But if you could nerf their ego after, Bioware, that would be peachy.

Edited by SimplyCooL
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