Yes, it's all numbers, essentially: more adds, more HPs to grind through, more damage output from everything, etc.

I believe the DoT pools also spawn more frequently, but don't last as long as in HM. I think you can have five pools out at the same time to work around in nightmare.

The opening wave of adds in 8-man nightmare is 3 monsters, 3 larva, and 1 tentacle, with a fourth monster spawning about twenty seconds into the fight. It's a serious DPS check.

That's our kill video. Admittedly the view is restricted since only a melee and the single add tank recorded but you can see that one tank takes the two right hand side monsters and tanks them in the middle and the second tank takes the one spawning on the left.

Always kill the single monster on the second tank and try drag it to any active tentacles. The tank with several monsters should maximize mitigation and use cooldowns liberally. Be careful of lOSing the healers with the throne and be ready to move slightly depending on tentacle spawns.

Every new spawn the tank in the middle picks it up and when a monster dies the second tank taunts a monster from the pile in the middle (rather than picking one up fresh since aggro will then be harder to keep).

As long as you have the DPS to kill a monster every 45-60s you'll never be overwhelmed.

Never stand infront of a monster and be ready to move back into position after a knock back.

Might not be the best way to handle it but it's worked for us rather well. The takeaways are one tank takes all the monster but one (2 spawn on the right side to start).

One thing to take into account is the time when monsters are glowing red, ie. buffed vs damage when they are close to each other. If the DPS check feels extremely tight; try to taunt new monster off the tank holding'em just slightly before the one being killed is dead to avoid DPS being reduced due them being still buffed.

I liked healing MeatShield (tm powertech) tanking 2-3 big monsters. No significant surprises damage wise and it made it quite comfortable. Either way worked thought.

Hey folks.

Sorry for necroing this thread but I didn't want to make a new one.

So yesterday we had quite some problems killing Bestia(have killed her before) because timing of the debuff she starts to stack onto the tank after dread strike was completely out of line. Could anyone maybe explain to me, how or when this happens? And if it's some sort of intended mechanic or a bug?

And the second question: is it possible to avoid getting these stacks with saber reflect? Like assassins can with shroud?

Hey folks.

Sorry for necroing this thread but I didn't want to make a new one.

 

So yesterday we had quite some problems killing Bestia(have killed her before) because timing of the debuff she starts to stack onto the tank after dread strike was completely out of line. Could anyone maybe explain to me, how or when this happens? And if it's some sort of intended mechanic or a bug?

And the second question: is it possible to avoid getting these stacks with saber reflect? Like assassins can with shroud?

From my experience in her, both HM and NiM, I have seen the stacks break from one main method;

When she first activates, if a tank does not immediately grab her. And she gets into melee range (might need to actually hit) another person before being taunted away, the stacks are out of sync. Every time I have seen the stacks out of sync with strike, this has happened in both HM and NiM.

Edit note; I honestly think this is a bug. But for all I know it might be coded in for stacks to form on someone X amount of seconds after she activates whether or not Strike occurs.

As for avoiding the stacks;

Only a Sin has the 100% chance to. I think a Jugg might be able to via use of Blade Turning when they pop Saber Ward. Outside of that and Shroud, if the tank is lucky with RNG they can avoid it as well. Dread Strike's last tick applies them, so anything that would avoid that tick of damage avoids the stacks, including natural resist/parry chance.

Tbh it is not needed to kill her at all. It's just a nice thing to have, more a luxury then anything else.

Stacks will never kill you before taunt goes of cooldown. If you get really unlucky you may have to have a DPS taunt the boss later in the fight. In all the kills of that boss across multiple characters/roles/groups I remember 2 such cases. It's better to heal something like guardian DPS then tank on 8-10 stacks.

Sure, but we have 2 sents and 2 mandos as dps^^

Rekord yesterday was 12 stacks due to swap after dread strike and stacks got applied a good 10-12 secs later. So basically I taunted and got the stacks my co tank was supposed to get. At an insanely high rate. There was something way off yesterday. Killed her nevertheless after a few tries:)

And oneshot bosses 2-4

The reason there is a delay in stacks being applied instead of right after the Dread Strike channel is caused from a target switch right after Dread Strike is finished channeling. Usually its due to one of the tanks taunting her off of someone during her Dread Strike channel right when she becomes active. When she becomes active and starts channeling Dread Strike on someone, wait until she puts at least 1 stack on that person before you decide to taunt her off. If you taunt her off during the channel before she can apply her stacks, it will cause the delay.

While using Force Shroud to cheese stacks is nice, its completely doable without it. Also, Assassins are the only ones capable of completely negating her stacks. She applies her stacks from Dread Scream (looks like a Sentinel Blade Storm animation). Saber reflect will not negate the stacks, but it will reflect the damage from Dread Scream.

You should try our trademark tactic once

yeah buffing the focussed add all 5-7 seconds because of kiting is great

While using Force Shroud to cheese stacks is nice, its completely doable without it. Also, Assassins are the only ones capable of completely negating her stacks. She applies her stacks from Dread Scream (looks like a Sentinel Blade Storm animation). Saber reflect will not negate the stacks, but it will reflect the damage from Dread Scream.

Wait what?

Since when is it scream applying the stacks and not Strike itself? Cause doesn't she scream more then two or three times a minute? Like four or five times? Yet we only have to deal with two strikes between shrouds.

I am curious as to what makes you say this when most ppl I talk to say stacks are linked to Strike.

Wait what?

Since when is it scream applying the stacks and not Strike itself? Cause doesn't she scream more then two or three times a minute? Like four or five times? Yet we only have to deal with two strikes between shrouds.

 

I am curious as to what makes you say this when most ppl I talk to say stacks are linked to Strike.

If you pay attention to her when she finishes casting Dread Strike, she follows up with another ability (looks like Blade Storm). That is what starts her stacks.

Most people just associate her stacks linked with Dread Strike because she normally applies it right after the channel. But if you look at combat logs you can see that another ability follows up right after Dread Strike which is what starts the stacks.

If the stacks were linked to Dread Strikes itself, this issue would not exist:

Record yesterday was 12 stacks due to swap after dread strike and stacks got applied a good 10-12 secs later.

When she becomes active and starts channeling Dread Strike on someone, wait until she puts at least 1 stack on that person before you decide to taunt her off. If you taunt her off during the channel before she can apply her stacks, it will cause the delay.

I believe that this is the clearest answer to the latest question regarding odd stack timing. Once Bestia starts casting Dread Strike do not mess with her aggro until she has applied one stack to the person she cast Dread Strike on. Anyone can live through a Dread Strike plus one stack application.

Wait what?

Since when is it scream applying the stacks and not Strike itself? Cause doesn't she scream more then two or three times a minute? Like four or five times? Yet we only have to deal with two strikes between shrouds.

 

I am curious as to what makes you say this when most ppl I talk to say stacks are linked to Strike.

I believe DrMeth is correct, as this is the way I manage the fight as well as a tank. The Dread Strike channel is only telling you that a stack is about to be applied. The last tick of damage from Dread Strike definitely does not apply the stack, as the stack always shows up on my debuff bar about a Global after Dread Strike is done. This indicates to me that the stack is coming from a different source than Dread Strike.

Another way to consider this issue is the following scenario. Tank 1 takes Dread Strike to the face. Good job Tank 1! Tank 2, trying to be helpful, sees the Dread Strike channel in their Bestia focus target and instantly taunts the boss when Dread Strike is completed. Oh no! Tank 2 ends up getting the stack instead of Tank 1 and yet another tragic wipe ensues. Repair bills for everyone! And Tank 2's response? "That's what I get for trying to be helpful!"

(I neither confirm, nor deny that I have ever been Tank 2 in the above scenario.)

My standard raid call these days when I have the boss is, "Dread Strike being applied" *pauses after Dread Strike* "Ok, I have my stack. Taunt."

Hmm...

Color me surprised.

Though that does explain the random resist from only the end of Strike and not the entire thing when using Shroud. *shrugs* Learn something everyday. If it was from strike then all of strike should be force, not the last one. Least the point Lev makes about not messing with her aggro once she starts Strike rings true. The call in my group was just for stacks because of the RNG chance of dodging (which has happened enough that we had to account for it so as to not buff Monsters).

@Lev;

Yeah, except from knowing you that defiantly sounds like you

So I did a detailed investigation of my log from this Tuesday’s clear of nightmare Bestia. This sequence occurs late in the fight when just Bestia and a Tentacle are up. I am tanking on my Assassin. The sequence was:

• Force shroud during Dread Strike to avoid first set of stacks
  
• Hold boss
  
• Take application of the second set of stacks
  
• Taunt-swap onto Tentacle

The actual mechanic for stack application is if she hits you with “Swelling Despair” 0.5 seconds after the last tick of damage from Dread Strike. Here are the relevant lines.

1. Force shroud during Dread Strike to avoid first set of stacks.

21:49:16.573 You gain Immobilized from Dread Master Bestia

21:49:17.012 Dread Master Bestia hits you with Dread Strike for 728 energy (shield) damage

21:49:17.333 Dread Master Bestia hits you with Dread Strike for 712 energy (shield) damage

21:49:17.836 You activate Force Shroud

21:49:17.836 You gain Force Shroud

21:49:19.497 Dread Master Bestia hits you with Dread Strike for 6,381 energy damage

21:49:19.678 You lose Dread Master Bestia's Immobilized effect

21:49:20.219 Dread Master Bestia hits you with Swelling Despair for 0 (resist) damage

21:49:21.375 Dread Master Bestia hits you with Assault for 3,428 energy damage

21:49:22.947 You lose Force Shroud effect

2. Hold boss.

21:49:24.608 Dread Master Bestia hits you with Dread Scream for 2,819 kinetic (shield) damage

21:49:26.194 Dread Master Bestia hits you with Assault for 1,629 energy (shield) damage

21:49:27.750 Dread Master Bestia hits you with Assault for 0 (parry) damage

21:49:29.566 Dread Master Bestia hits you with Dread Scream for 2,521 kinetic (shield) damage

21:49:32.390 Dread Master Bestia hits you with Assault for 1,480 energy (shield) damage

21:49:34.039 Dread Master Bestia hits you with Assault for 0 (parry) damage

21:49:35.683 Dread Master Bestia hits you with Dread Scream for 2,414 kinetic (shield) damage

21:49:37.245 Dread Master Bestia hits you with Assault for 0 (parry) damage

21:49:38.691 Dread Master Bestia hits you with Assault for 3,195 energy damage

21:49:40.359 Dread Master Bestia hits you with Dread Scream for 2,628 kinetic (shield) damage

3. Take application of the second set of stacks.

21:49:41.689 You gain Immobilized from Dread Master Bestia

21:49:42.047 Dread Master Bestia hits you with Dread Strike for 0 (parry) damage

21:49:42.468 Dread Master Bestia hits you with Dread Strike for 708 energy (shield) damage

21:49:44.702 Dread Master Bestia hits you with Dread Strike for 2,815 energy (shield) damage

21:49:44.774 You lose Dread Master Bestia's Immobilized effect

21:49:45.002 You gain Swelling Despair from Dread Master Bestia

21:49:45.254 Dread Master Bestia hits you with Swelling Despair for 5,251 energy (shield) damage

4. Taunt-swap onto Tentacle.

21:49:46.521 Dread Master Bestia hits you with Assault for 3,994 energy damage

21:49:48.141 You activate Force Speed

21:49:48.142 You gain Force Speed

21:49:48.588 You activate Mind Control

21:49:48.589 Dread Tentacle gains Taunt

21:49:48.589 You taunt Dread Tentacle (14 threat)

21:49:48.864 Mind Control causes your threat on Dread Tentacle to change by 2

yeah buffing the focussed add all 5-7 seconds because of kiting is great

True, we later changed it and just kited all monsters from start and just nuked down all larvas/tentacles until Bestia spawned, but then again the monster+all other **** died before Bestia spawned, even thought it was buffed

First off thanks for the info Levram and Dr Meth

So swelling despair ist that "bladestorm lookalike ability"?

First off thanks for the info Levram and Dr Meth

 

So swelling despair ist that "bladestorm lookalike ability"?

No, I just rewatched a video of one of our clears. I couldn't pick out a distinct animation that was tied to the Swelling Despair attack on the tank. I think that particular attack is not animated. Tanks should just call out the Dread Strike attack, watch themselves for Swelling Despair stacks and then call for the swap.

The parse I detailed above also seems to indicate that Swelling Despair may be happening off of the global cooldown. When I resist the first Swelling Despair, the sequence is that Dread Strike ends at 19.68 and Bestia hits with Assault at 21.38 (i.e. 1.7 seconds later), but somehow managed to fit in a Swelling Despair attack in between those two abilities.