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Sith Juggernauts Extremely Under-Powered Discussion?


ThiefUK

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I'v played on my Sith Juggernaut for a good 30-40 hours and am currently level 28, i know people hate comparisants to WoW but it has to be said, i'v read on other posts and have noticed it myself, Spells & Abilities that are instant casts taking 0.5-1 second to cast from engine lagg or something but par from that:

 

- Other Class's that are not even tanking spec seem to have higher Health / Endurance than me even when they've not spec'd and or got the gear for it.

 

- Taking on 3 + Mobs takes your health to around 1/4 if spells are on CD, If you tank 1 Elite mob and "Accidently" pull another, its game over.

 

- Heavy Armor? What.. I'v seen Medium Armor DPS Warriors take down Elite after Elite faster and more efficently than myself, after inspecting said person, they had 1000 - 1200 Armor, i had near 6000, its like Armor isn't Armor, its just for show...

 

- I have spec'd correctly, followed a few guides and experimented myself, nothing seems to affect my Character, Yes i can Buff and get the Defense Bonus but its nothing exciting.

 

- The Damage output is just horrible, after gathering commendations for hours and grinding through quests 1 by 1 on low level gear, to then upgrade said gear with commendations, new lighsaber, new everything, NOTHING CHANGES... Health increase yes but Damage... nop.

 

 

Imo the Sith Warrior Juggernaut is the most underpowered class in the game at the moment, its just not enjoyable, i played a warrior class in WoW tanking instances, taking on over 10 mobs at a time, i know the Damage system is different here but as a "Tank" you should be able to manage more than 6 mobs at a time...

 

anyone else having this as a tank?

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i play a jugg and don't have these issues. i feel about equal to teh same level people i group with in terms of dps.

 

 

i think bh merc gets a bit better aoe than us, but otherwise in general i feel like a total ****** in pve for the most part.

 

are youfigthing mobs that are higher level than you? if so pone level above will make a big difference.

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I'v played on my Sith Juggernaut for a good 30-40 hours and am currently level 28

 

You are only level 28, you aren't in a position to say whether the class is over/underpowered or even balanced. I'm only level 36, I'm not going to say whether it is either because I CAN'T know.

 

I will tell you my experience so far though, I am usually in the top 3 for damage and kills in PvP and I have done every heroic and flashpoint without ever wiping even once. I've never ran across an appropriate level elite I couldn't kill. However, the variability while leveling is too much to make any kind of statement about balance (I just got a new ability at 36 that is a main attack in my rotation). Maybe I get to 50 and realize my class is broke, maybe not, I can only say for sure WHEN I am 50.

 

If you understand how balancing works in an MMO, you don't worry about it at level 28. It's like wanting every class to be balanced 1v1, it's impossible unless every class is exactly the same.

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Bioware thinks they can do that lol!

 

Every class is almost exactly the same.

 

Every class has a 4 sec stun, a cc, a damage reducer, channel attacks, dots, support skills, etc....

 

If you sat down and compared every class skill by skill there would be very minor discrepencies.

 

Such as...

 

SI/JC gets 2 sec 150% speed increase. Retarded. Probably the most unbalanced skill in the game.

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I'v played on my Sith Juggernaut for a good 30-40 hours and am currently level 28, i know people hate comparisants to WoW but it has to be said, i'v read on other posts and have noticed it myself, Spells & Abilities that are instant casts taking 0.5-1 second to cast from engine lagg or something but par from that:

 

- Other Class's that are not even tanking spec seem to have higher Health / Endurance than me even when they've not spec'd and or got the gear for it.

 

- Taking on 3 + Mobs takes your health to around 1/4 if spells are on CD, If you tank 1 Elite mob and "Accidently" pull another, its game over.

 

- Heavy Armor? What.. I'v seen Medium Armor DPS Warriors take down Elite after Elite faster and more efficently than myself, after inspecting said person, they had 1000 - 1200 Armor, i had near 6000, its like Armor isn't Armor, its just for show...

 

- I have spec'd correctly, followed a few guides and experimented myself, nothing seems to affect my Character, Yes i can Buff and get the Defense Bonus but its nothing exciting.

 

- The Damage output is just horrible, after gathering commendations for hours and grinding through quests 1 by 1 on low level gear, to then upgrade said gear with commendations, new lighsaber, new everything, NOTHING CHANGES... Health increase yes but Damage... nop.

 

 

Imo the Sith Warrior Juggernaut is the most underpowered class in the game at the moment, its just not enjoyable, i played a warrior class in WoW tanking instances, taking on over 10 mobs at a time, i know the Damage system is different here but as a "Tank" you should be able to manage more than 6 mobs at a time...

 

anyone else having this as a tank?

 

Sorry everyone was a dick to you. :( I can concede the fact that it's hard to gauge the potential of a class until you hit level 50, but if that's always the case then a lot of people won't play certain classes. The journey, or storyline to 50, is what BW says the game is REALLY about. So if Jugg stinks compared to all other classes UNTIL 50, then it's still a design flaw. And that's not the way to encourage people to play a class. So for the flamers telling you not to comment until you're level 50, I'd just skip over their posts.

 

I personally agree with you on several points. I suppose it is possible that our expectations are a little high (this is the class I wanted to play most and Tanking is what I do..) but that is neither here nor there. I have noticed and been concerned about the exact points you made above. B/c I'm dedicated to see how this class is at end game I won't be re-rolling, but the concerns are still there. If you and I both have them then it's unlikely we're the only ones. I think it's something that needs to be reviewed by BW. Nobody here is 'qualified' to decide whether to nerf/buff, but everyone here IS qualified to share their observations. And currently mine are shared with the poster. The Sith Juggernaut needs a look-over and should be contrasted to other classes. Our DPS needs a bump as does our mitigation (especially Internal/Elemental.) I'm tired of being in Soresu Form and being killed in seconds to Internal/Elemental dmg. Especially since 75% of players in Warzones are SI/JC...

 

As for Tanking in Flashpoints, I am doing fine. I hold aggro well, though I look forward to more AoE abilities. Unfortunately my Healer still complains about my ability to mitigate damage. There isn't much more I can do as I'm specced appropriately, use my CDs, and have the best gear I can get my hands on. So I would support a buff here. Hope we see something official soon on BW's position/opinion on our class.

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Leave the Rage tree alone it's crap.

 

I am now under the impression that these forums are filled with nubs and trolls.

 

I have a 50 Juggernaut, and Rage tree is by far the BEST in PvP.

 

Juggernaut doesn't do enough damage? My up to 4k Smash crits beg to differ.

 

Juggernaut, and Marauder for that matter, are the classes that don't really start shining till around level 40. Until then, grab your Vette if you're tank spec or Quinn if you're dps and simply quest until you get there.

 

I'm pulling top 3 highest dps numbers in warzones all the time, I've tanked some 50 instances no problem. The class has fantastic end game. Problems with early levels have been known since early beta days. If YOU have a problem with leveling this class then either upgrade your gear or play an easier class: Inquisitor and Bounty Hunters are by far the easiest archetypes to get you to 50 with.

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I am now under the impression that these forums are filled with nubs and trolls.

 

I have a 50 Juggernaut, and Rage tree is by far the BEST in PvP.

 

Juggernaut doesn't do enough damage? My up to 4k Smash crits beg to differ.

 

Juggernaut, and Marauder for that matter, are the classes that don't really start shining till around level 40. Until then, grab your Vette if you're tank spec or Quinn if you're dps and simply quest until you get there.

 

I'm pulling top 3 highest dps numbers in warzones all the time, I've tanked some 50 instances no problem. The class has fantastic end game. Problems with early levels have been known since early beta days. If YOU have a problem with leveling this class then either upgrade your gear or play an easier class: Inquisitor and Bounty Hunters are by far the easiest archetypes to get you to 50 with.

 

A single 4k smash... try multiple3k and 4k hits from a range with no setup. yeah that's what quite a few other classes can do.

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I am now under the impression that these forums are filled with nubs and trolls.

 

I have a 50 Juggernaut, and Rage tree is by far the BEST in PvP.

 

Juggernaut doesn't do enough damage? My up to 4k Smash crits beg to differ.

 

Juggernaut, and Marauder for that matter, are the classes that don't really start shining till around level 40. Until then, grab your Vette if you're tank spec or Quinn if you're dps and simply quest until you get there.

 

I'm pulling top 3 highest dps numbers in warzones all the time, I've tanked some 50 instances no problem. The class has fantastic end game. Problems with early levels have been known since early beta days. If YOU have a problem with leveling this class then either upgrade your gear or play an easier class: Inquisitor and Bounty Hunters are by far the easiest archetypes to get you to 50 with.

 

LOL @ your 4k hit on a 12sec CD.

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Forst of all, this isn't wow. Leveling a warriror in classic wow was heavy downtime and forget about leveling as prot you wouldn't even be able to clear mobs in an area before they started respawning. For better or worse that game is nothing like it was even a few years ago for tanks. Pre nerf heroic shattered halls, fall over dead to 4k bleed ticks from non-elite dogs. Not enough rage for shield block and take a crush for your whole health bar.... but different games are different and even wow is nothing like it was in TBC for tanks.

 

The difficulty seems to be a bit more old school in swtor. Just casual observation but mobs are either doing non-physical damage, mixed, or have armor penetration. It is very important to interrupt and move out of aoe effects some of which are pretty subtle (e.g. those little droid ball things).

 

I think it is just an adjustment to go from a game where low level melee two shot everything to one wher you have to work a bit. Besides, we will get a look here soon and I'm sure if something really needs to be tweaked it will happen.

 

Ranged are easy to play, should not be news to any MMO vets.

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A single 4k smash... try multiple3k and 4k hits from a range with no setup. yeah that's what quite a few other classes can do.

 

none of the classes can hit me for 3k. not sure if anyone hit me for more than 2.

 

charge, choke, smash, crush, kick, oliberate, smash (9sec cd) ure dead. enjoy. and u cant even do anything. true bh can do 400k dmg per BG but they do aoe dmg, while i do 200k to single targets mostly. 6-7medals always. sooo yeah. ****.

 

only crap is that u have to charge in group of foes and they can focus you easily.

Edited by RaptorClown
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I have a lvl 50 Jugg tank spec'd and haven't seen anything too under-powered in the class at all. You deal less dmg overall, but the burst from some strong attacks along with unstoppable CDs make you invincible in PvP. It's a tank AC it's not supposed to deal sh*t tons of dmg.
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1. Turn spell queue off it took away that delay feel on spells for me anyways.

 

2. I don't know how, you must not be modding/gearing correctly or are focusing on str over endurance. I was always a head of people when it came to heal unless they out leveled me by 3-4+

 

3. Armor makes a difference, if you kill it in 30 seconds and he kills in in 10, you're taking another 20 seconds of damage. I can deal with elites just fine with a DPS or a healing companion at 44, I could also back at 28 so not sure how you're having huge issues there.

 

4. Well thats good, are you gearing correctly? Keeping your mods up dated? Also GEAR the hell out of your companions also, hell even have them out gear you. If you're using Vette you NEED to have her geared. Being under geared is going to lead to issues.

 

5. As immortal at your level anyways 80% of your DPS comes from Vette. Later on in the 40s or so is when I noticed I was able to do enough dps to kill efficiently enough to use Quinn to level with..and lets just say it's pretty awesome now.

 

I've been able to handle 1-2 Strongs and 4 normal mobs at once =/ this is with Quinn though at 42 or so at the time.

 

Anyways, yes Juggs are weaker then most of the other Classes in the leveling arena for sure. Though I wouldn't go as far and say that we're EXTREMELY Underpowered. We do need some tweaks and DPS buffs, but we're still 100% viable to level to 50.

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none of the classes can hit me for 3k. not sure if anyone hit me for more than 2.

 

charge, choke, smash, crush, kick, oliberate, smash (9sec cd) ure dead. enjoy. and u cant even do anything. true bh can do 400k dmg per BG but they do aoe dmg, while i do 200k to single targets mostly. 6-7medals always. sooo yeah. ****.

 

only crap is that u have to charge in group of foes and they can focus you easily.

 

At least 3 classes can hit me for 3k+ several times in a row while I am in soresu form specc'd immortal. Snipers/gunslingers can do it from range with no way for me to close the distance before I'm dead. Scoundrel/Ops can chain 3 k hits on you while they stun you leaving you with 2k-3k health left when the cc finally ends. Merc/Vanguards can chain together 3k hits, though they are a bit easier to get to, they have more tools to keep a jugg away than the jugg has to get close. My vengeance spec couldn't dream of hitting like that. The rage spec only hits that hard with a single smash, then it's back to hitting pretty weakly.

 

I've said this before I can get 6-7 metals, lead the warzone in damage and even protection, that does not mean the class is fine. It means either I had a good pocket healer, the other team sucked or I played extremely well that game. I'll use this example again, In league of legends I can go 24 and 0 as AD soraka, but that does not mean that AD soraka is good.

 

Also your example is of going against someone brain dead in pvp. Other classes have so many tools to shut that down it's not even funny.

 

I have a lvl 50 Jugg tank spec'd and haven't seen anything too under-powered in the class at all. You deal less dmg overall, but the burst from some strong attacks along with unstoppable CDs make you invincible in PvP. It's a tank AC it's not supposed to deal sh*t tons of dmg.

 

As tank spec your last statement is true. However the class is more than a tank. If what you say is true, assassins and powertech shouldn't be able to do the damage they do. Heck healers shouldn't be able to do the damage they do.

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a jug is a "TANK" we should never be able to out dps a dps class. if its i cant hold agro issue its most likely the tanks fault sorry

 

What are you talking about? Juggernaut is the name of the AC, not the tree that we spec into. If a Jug specs into Rage then according to Bioware we should be doing the same DPS as a BH or any other class.

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