it's OP on enough fights for the Devs to do some re-working on that spec

Getting into a rhythm/schedule for updates. Expect them to decrease in speed but become more periodic.

Even if u master or idk cheat and use Macro for jump + bombs, which can fail too, or boss have big reticles and get hit by it too much, is not really the best spec you want to use in a raid group, pretty much like Pyro merc i would say... sniper stacked on melee range? lets go with a mara for that.... merc without tracer missile armor red? might as well just use a sniper for example comparing specs.

 

Your comparison makes no sense. People don't take a pyro merc because arsenal does the same/more damage with more utility (armor debuff). The better comparison would be saying "that's like bringing a lethality operative, why do that when you can just bring a mara".

Edited July 28, 2013 by namesaretough

it's OP on enough fights for the Devs to do some re-working on that spec

 

According to the Engineering Sniper or the Sin?

What do you mean? Dont know if I understand you correctly ...

 

I mean that the majority of players is like you, they prefer to play a class with greater dps potential, the class itself isn't really important in the choice.

So it's contributing in the fact that there aren't a lot of PvE dps shadows/assassins, therefore there is no reason to make an effort to boost our class in PvE when it is so simple to reroll an OP class.

So I'm telling the Devs : "Look what you've done ..."

 

Is it clear now ?

Your comparison makes no sense. People don't take a pyro merc because arsenal does the same/more damage with more utility (armor debuff). The better comparison would be saying "that's like bringing a lethality operative, why do that when you can just bring a mara".

 

The problem is there are a few that can actually play the right tree.

I mean that the majority of players is like you, they prefer to play a class with greater dps potential, the class itself isn't really important in the choice.

So it's contributing in the fact that there aren't a lot of PvE dps shadows/assassins, therefore there is no reason to make an effort to boost our class in PvE when it is so simple to reroll an OP class.

So I'm telling the Devs : "Look what you've done ..."

 

Is it clear now ?

 

Kinda, yeah! But whats the alternative? Waiting untill it gets a buff? You know, my time is unfortunately pretty capped and I want to play the game with all its features and dont want to waste the time waiting for a sign of the Devs! If there'd be a warranty or at least the probability that the Sin will become a competitive DPSclass I would flame BW to finally do this (not at all, but you know what I mean). But for example you (according to your signature) are playing a DPSshadow and you might have the time doing so, but i dont! So my choise is very constricted. I hope I wrote clearly and am waiting for yout answer!

DPS sin can keep up pretty ok(can't top slingers or sentinels but meh), just a few people can play them good enough to do so since it involves a lot of positioning and priority awareness. A friend of mine plays a shadow dps and on kephess for example hes going 4,5k+ or 2,7k on styrak which is more than sufficient and pretty good compared to others. Of course you can't compare top players to casuals. Edited July 28, 2013 by Ausgelebt

http://www.torparse.com/a/357981

 

my 3131 dps parser as sentinel could probably beat it but atm itll do

...

 

I don't really see where a shadow dps is more time-consuming, but that's not the problem here.

I wasn't judging you, it's normal you want to try another class, I was saying that the class isn't enough attractive for most players, it's Devs fault not yours.

The only reason to play this class as a dps is because you enjoy it, personally I chose this class since beta, I was happy enough to never change my main.

I made the maximum possible to never become a tank (took 4 months to buy tank skills), I never chose to loot a tank piece, I knew it was a trap, most dps shadows have become tanks or took another dps class.

If you want to change it's because the fun factor isn't enough compared to the dps factor (but we have our place in any raid difficulty), I totally understand your choice, it's not helping us, but again it's not your fault, it's a choice made by Devs.

http://www.torparse.com/a/357981

 

my 3131 dps parser as sentinel could probably beat it but atm itll do

 

You used the wrong training dummy. You're looking for the Operations/MK-5 Operations training dummies.

You used the wrong training dummy. You're looking for the Operations/MK-5 Operations training dummies.

 

*** is that profile name?

Your comparison makes no sense. People don't take a pyro merc because arsenal does the same/more damage with more utility (armor debuff). The better comparison would be saying "that's like bringing a lethality operative, why do that when you can just bring a mara".

 

ill tell you why to bring a leth operative instead of a mara... Stealth / stealth rez / battle rez /off heals / Higher dps / RDPS + Mdps (dont have to be stacked 4M or hurt by movement in DG fight for example, like carnage if things are running around during ravage or gores), marauders can dps + BT which is awesome, but thats about it, of course all classes are useful, just saying the obvious, pyro does less dmg because first people are not parsing with external armor reduction, second people dont take in consideration the under 30% burn (4 possible DoTs), who knows if Pyro can perform better than Arsenal in raids? doubt anyone have given it the proper try, but reality is, why bringing a pyro merc that doesnt give armor reduction, when u can bring arsenal or sniper..... same thing, in 8 man groups at least, if you have 1 - 2 melee in the group already, why would u like to have a RDPS stacking on top of melee that make fights harder, when MM sniper or Hybrid can do insane high dps from ranged already?... if your group needs to push dps with scatter bombs, then someone is slacking (not considering DG pre nerf dps that was insane ).

 

edit: i understand your point, everyone can play every class, i am the one that play OPs, and played it pre 2.0 i mean come on lol, but talking in reality, there are few fights that benefit from engineering OP scatter bombs dps, and even less fights that "require" you to do it, when your two other specs are simple, rdps, and great for raid groups are already in the top 3 of PvE DPS, the guy was asking how / why spec is so high and why not everyone uses it, i am giving him the secondary reason besides boss reticles .

Edited July 28, 2013 by Carlenux

"NOT TO BE UPDATED"

 

just for Reference on whoever is interested in Operative dps or compare numbers.

 

Lethality WITHOUT Acid blade buff... 3244

 

http://www.torparse.com/a/357610/time/1375000549/1375000849/0/Damage+Dealt

 

Concealment normal Spec.... 3147

 

http://www.torparse.com/a/357586/time/1374998204/1374998506/0/Damage+Dealt

http://www.torparse.com/a/357981

 

my 3131 dps parser as sentinel could probably beat it but atm itll do

 

 

34 Blade Storm 229457 552.35 6748.74 88.24%

 

haha

Carlenix MM sniper 36 / 3 /7 3100 not impressive, i am not too good with snipers dummy parse >.< but barely make the ranks lol

 

http://www.torparse.com/a/358603/time/1375058398/1375058698/0/Damage+Dealt

 

one try on Engineering OP taste 3519

 

http://www.torparse.com/a/358651/time/1375061639/1375061984/0/Damage+Dealt

Edited July 29, 2013 by Carlenux

Fûsrodah - Saboteur 5/36/5 3412; 3 dps away for the other guy... hmmpf... lol Edited July 29, 2013 by shadowopsx

Your comparison makes no sense. People don't take a pyro merc because arsenal does the same/more damage with more utility (armor debuff). The better comparison would be saying "that's like bringing a lethality operative, why do that when you can just bring a mara".

 

If you forget about Arsenal mercs taking less damage and being easier to heal the key reasons you don't bring a Pyro merc are:

 

1) Does significantly less damage when not grouped with another armour debuffing player

2) Doesn't bring an armour debuff so if no one else can, the entire raid loses damage.

 

All hugely important in 8m ops where there's 4 dps and 2 tanks often split up.

 

In 16m ops with many more potential armour debuffers there's more leeway in allowing a Pyro merc over an Arsenal merc but you still have the player taking more damage and receiving 2% less healing.

 

 

The only defensive bonuses available to Pyro is 2% more dodge chance vs ranged and melee and 30% less DoT for 6s if you use cleanse.

 

Arsenal takes 5% less damage from everything, has a faster CD on shield, passively absorbs about 1000 damage every 10s, takes 2% more healing and can totally absorb a direct tech/force attack using threat drop.

Edited July 29, 2013 by Gyronamics

If you forget about Arsenal mercs taking less damage and being easier to heal the key reasons you don't bring a Pyro merc are:

 

1) Does significantly less damage when not grouped with another armour debuffing player

2) Doesn't bring an armour debuff so if no one else can, the entire raid loses damage.

 

All hugely important in 8m ops where there's 4 dps and 2 tanks often split up.

 

In 16m ops with many more potential armour debuffers there's more leeway in allowing a Pyro merc over an Arsenal merc but you still have the player taking more damage and receiving 2% less healing.

 

mmhm you are right

If you forget about Arsenal mercs taking less damage and being easier to heal the key reasons you don't bring a Pyro merc are:

I didn't mean to diminish the difference between pyro and arsenal, my point was that claiming a eng sniper is just a less effective mara is a silly comparison. If your argument for not taking a eng sniper is he has to sit in melee range, you could make that argument for literally any melee class, the poster's own class and spec included. Even in eng, a sniper still brings an armor debuff, scrambling field, and on the appropriate bosses the highest dps in the game.

I've refrained from taking a stance on this issue but I will say that I'll play my class and spec in whatever way is fun. No matter which spec I'm using I'll bring the DPS and at that point no one else has the room to complain (as long as I'm not doing something stupid like rolling into cleaves). If I want to run sab, I will. Its DPS even with only ONE scatter bomb hitting is around 2900~3000. You're right that an unskilled rolling gunslinger/sniper can cause annoyances but that goes for any class and player. Edited July 29, 2013 by Falver

I didn't mean to diminish the difference between pyro and arsenal, my point was that claiming a eng sniper is just a less effective mara is a silly comparison. If your argument for not taking a eng sniper is he has to sit in melee range, you could make that argument for literally any melee class, the poster's own class and spec included. Even in eng, a sniper still brings an armor debuff, scrambling field, and on the appropriate bosses the highest dps in the game.

 

mmm everything you say its true, then again, the guy is asking why with such a high dps and utility, they are not used in raids, and i am just comparing, if u want to have a sniper in melee range might as well grab a melee... if u want engineering at range, other specs do better (this mean no scatter bombs)... its really dependable spec on, which boss, group composition, not a spec that perform full capabilities on all bosses, that u would use for a full nim sav run without respec. thats why people normally dont use them for full raids and have a different leaderboard .

Edited July 29, 2013 by Carlenux

Thought I'd make it easier on ya Falver

 

Pizza'dah'hutt: Mercenary Arsenal 6/36/4 - 3147.41

Log Link: http://www.torparse.com/a/358817/1/0/Damage+Dealt

 

Pulled from my thread:

 

 

mmm everything you say its true, then again, the guy is asking why with such a high dps and utility, they are not used in raids,

 

Actually, if you look back that wasn't what he was asking. He was asking why it did so much more damage than any other spec, nothing about it being used or not being used in a raid.

According to the Engineering Sniper or the Sin?

 

I was referencing the sniper roll spec