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Electronet and Force Barrier...


Ghost_Spectre

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As stated above, it is a defensive measure and nothing more. There’s no argument about it. No Sage or Sorcerer who channels Force Barrier can do any other action but channel the barrier. No damage, stuns, slows, roots, or other measures can affect the caster. Heck, I’ve popped the barrier on Lucky and nothing he did (or any other champion or world boss) could affect me. However, somehow some lowly Merc/Trooper can affect me and prevent me from using Force Barrier with Electro Net? This is not working as intended. Force Barrier is not an escape it is a pure defensive measure and nothing more or less.

 

Nobody argues that's not a defensive measure but that's an absolute defensive measure. The fact that you do nothing during it is not the problem, it is that once you use it, its defensive potential is so high that you don't need an escape anymore, like if it acted like one.

An Assassin using Force Shroud is still vulnerable to weapon damage, a Marauder using Undying Rage or a Sorcerer using Static Barrier are still vulnerable to CCs. These moves do not free their user from the need to escape.

However Force Barrier protects you from anything. Considering that you don't need to escape anymore, make people wonder if it can be considered as "escape" as well. These wonders are legit since it's hard to define accurately the difference between an "absolute defense" and an "absolute escape". In the end, both seem to have the same result : protecting from anything.

 

As for me "absolute defense" and "absolute escape" is the same thing, and such powers can be both called "defense" and "escape".

 

That's a point that devs should give their opinion about. The fix that will come will depend on how they see this. If for them absolute defence equals escape, then Barrier should be forbidden during Electronet. If they think it doesn't mean escape, then they have to make Barrier doesn't calncel itself upon activation (the fact that it removes Electronet or not will not matter as the damage will be resisted).

But whatever, the ability do not act properly. Something that is not supposed to be allowed, shouldn't be allowed to be used and wasted, such as something that should work shouldn't cancel without reason.

Edited by Altheran
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Ghost_Spectre,

 

I'm sorry that the poor descriptions in the tooltips have confused you. This works precisely as designed. The Hindered effect is not considered a controlling effect. Controlling effects are considered to be effects that cause you to lose control of your character's ability to move - things like Stun, Blind, Immobilize, and Slow. When Electro Net is used on you, notice that Slowed and Hindered are separate effects. You can use Force Barrier while Slowed, but not while Hindered. The Hindered effect allows you to maintain control of your character while active, but it specifically prevents you from using certain escapes such as the ones already listed in Electro Net's tooltip and Force Barrier.

 

Force Barrier is considered both a defensive cooldown and an escape, since it allows you to completely escape taking damage while it is channeled. If you are Hindered, and find yourself in a situation where you would like to use Force Barrier, then you may use Unbreakable Will/Force of Will to remove the Hindered effect. Then you can activate Force Barrier. Again, I apologize for the poor tooltip descriptions in this regard, as Unbreakable Will/Force of Will tooltips do not state that they remove Hindered (but they do).

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According to the tool tip for Force Barrier:

 

 

However, the Electronet does not allow for the use of the Force Barrier and automatically puts it on cooldown when you attempt to use. Note the asterisk around all. It is specific, meaning not some, or most, it means ALL control measures.

 

I want to know why this has not been fixed since it is most certainly a bug as it does not follow what the tool tip states.

 

No other CC, stun, slow, or control measures do this, why does Electronet not respect Force Barrier's ability. Conversely, when will the developers fix this?

 

 

 

My take on this is simple...

 

If you use Force Barrier, you are immune to the listed effects while it is channeled. If you are being affected by certain abilities and THEN use Force Barrier, you are immune to subsequent abilities but may still be affected by things already cast on you. It does not specifically state that it removes those effects already on you, only that you can use it while controlled to become immune to additional effects.

 

No one ability should ever be without a counter of some sort. I think it's unreasonable to expect Force Barrier to make a player invulnerable to effects already on them AND anything being cast after it is channeled.

 

Never mind, Oz has spoken...

Edited by Grayseven
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Sorcerer using Static Barrier are still vulnerable to CCs.

Static Barrier is a defensive shield, like Force Armor, that absorbs a preset amount of damage. After which it drops leaving the sorcerer/sage vulnerable to attack when the damage received exceeds the amount it is capable of absorbing. The Force Barrier does not absorb damage, it stops it. You are immune to all attacks, CCs, stuns, roots, and slows. The Static Barrier/Force Armor do not offer any protection to CC's, stuns, roots, or snares. Both are defensive measures. One could argue that Static Barrier/Force Armor are escapes too; however, they are not. Like Force Barrier, both are defensive measures. Only the Static Barrier allows the sorcerer/sage continue to act.

However Force Barrier protects you from anything. Considering that you don't need to escape anymore, make people wonder if it can be considered as "escape" as well. These wonders are legit since it's hard to define accurately the difference between an "absolute defense" and an "absolute escape". In the end, both seem to have the same result : protecting from anything.

The problem is people want to apply the meaning of ‘escape’ to the Force Barrier. By their reasoning, any form of defensive measure is an escape. That would mean there are no defensive measures based on their beliefs and the definition they are applying to Force Barrier. The tool tip for Force Barrier is specific in its definition of what this defensive measure does. It absolutely protects the caster from all damage, stuns, roots, snares, and CCs for ten seconds. Channeling leaves the caster unable to do anything but stand there channeling the barrier. There is no escape. You are rooted in place by a self CC that protects you from whatever is thrown at the you.

As for me "absolute defense" and "absolute escape" is the same thing, and such powers can be both called "defense" and "escape".

Your definitions are a skewed then. By your own admission, there are no defensive measures, only escapes. That is like saying a starship with a battle shield around it is an escape mechanism because it allows a ship to “escape” from being damage. That is a misrepresentation and misconception of what defensive measures mean. In other words, you are painting everything with a very large brush to make it fit your belief regardless of what the true definition states and means.

That's a point that devs should give their opinion about. The fix that will come will depend on how they see this. If for them absolute defence equals escape, then Barrier should be forbidden during Electronet. If they think it doesn't mean escape, then they have to make Barrier doesn't calncel itself upon activation (the fact that it removes Electronet or not will not matter as the damage will be resisted).

We agree. It is my fervent hope that they will admit the mistake of allowing Electro Net to stop the use of Force Barrier and fix it. If they say otherwise, then I am going to have a very serious problem with their ruling as such as I mentioned my intention to react to earlier in this thread. I do not make states like that lightly, matter of fact; I never make them, especially publically.

But whatever, the ability do not act properly. Something that is not supposed to be allowed, shouldn't be allowed to be used and wasted, such as something that should work shouldn't cancel without reason.

Agreed.

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Ghost_Spectre,

 

I'm sorry that the poor descriptions in the tooltips have confused you. This works precisely as designed. The Hindered effect is not considered a controlling effect. Controlling effects are considered to be effects that cause you to lose control of your character's ability to move - things like Stun, Blind, Immobilize, and Slow. When Electro Net is used on you, notice that Slowed and Hindered are separate effects. You can use Force Barrier while Slowed, but not while Hindered. The Hindered effect allows you to maintain control of your character while active, but it specifically prevents you from using certain escapes such as the ones already listed in Electro Net's tooltip and Force Barrier.

 

Force Barrier is considered both a defensive cooldown and an escape, since it allows you to completely escape taking damage while it is channeled. If you are Hindered, and find yourself in a situation where you would like to use Force Barrier, then you may use Unbreakable Will/Force of Will to remove the Hindered effect. Then you can activate Force Barrier. Again, I apologize for the poor tooltip descriptions in this regard, as Unbreakable Will/Force of Will tooltips do not state that they remove Hindered (but they do).

 

While I completely agree with you there's still one point where it doesn't work as intended : according to Ghost_Spectre, when in an attempt to use the Force Barrier while "forbidden" by Electronet, the ability is considered as having fired and goes in CD. However, other escapes do not act like this : they are simply forbidden and saved for when Electronet wears off, their CD do not initiate in an attempt to use. Having the CD of Force Barrier starting do not seem normal and is detrimental, especially considering its length.

 

If Force Barrier cannot be stopped from starting, and if we consider its effect is the polar opposite of Electronet, then Electronet could as well be destroyed by Force Barrier at the same time it cancels itself. Like this, Force Barrier will have removed an hostile effect, and Electronet would have stopped Force Barrier from being an escape.

Edited by Altheran
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Ghost_Spectre,

 

I'm sorry that the poor descriptions in the tooltips have confused you. This works precisely as designed. The Hindered effect is not considered a controlling effect. Controlling effects are considered to be effects that cause you to lose control of your character's ability to move - things like Stun, Blind, Immobilize, and Slow. When Electro Net is used on you, notice that Slowed and Hindered are separate effects. You can use Force Barrier while Slowed, but not while Hindered. The Hindered effect allows you to maintain control of your character while active, but it specifically prevents you from using certain escapes such as the ones already listed in Electro Net's tooltip and Force Barrier.

 

Force Barrier is considered both a defensive cooldown and an escape, since it allows you to completely escape taking damage while it is channeled. If you are Hindered, and find yourself in a situation where you would like to use Force Barrier, then you may use Unbreakable Will/Force of Will to remove the Hindered effect. Then you can activate Force Barrier. Again, I apologize for the poor tooltip descriptions in this regard, as Unbreakable Will/Force of Will tooltips do not state that they remove Hindered (but they do).

 

Wonderful. You leave me no alternative because you people cannot write your definitions clearly regardless of how specific you make them. Thank you for answering; however, thanks to you, your "new" definition has screwed the Sorcerer/Sages again. I must think hard on whether or not to delete all characters, the game, and move on because you people cannot do what is right from the beginning. This is something I do not take lightly when making a statement of this magnitude. I have never quit a game over something of this nature because the MMOs I have played in have never had the problems that you and the rest of the developers seem to have when defining what is and what is not in this game.

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Ghost_Spectre,

 

I'm sorry that the poor descriptions in the tooltips have confused you.

 

I can't deal with it.

Now we have to say "better tooltips please"?

Also, in S&V the sandstorm bypasses Force Barrier, my healer died while channeling force barrier.

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I modified my quote to BW by adding this :

 

 

If Force Barrier cannot be stopped from starting, and if we consider its effect is the polar opposite of Electronet, then Electronet could as well be destroyed by Force Barrier at the same time it cancels itself. Like this, Force Barrier will have removed an hostile effect, and Electronet would have stopped Force Barrier from being an escape.

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I can't deal with it.

Now we have to say "better tooltips please"?

Also, in S&V the sandstorm bypasses Force Barrier, my healer died while channeling force barrier.

 

This answer is further proof they do all they can do to screw the sorcerer / sage players. They started with 1.2 and haven't stopped.

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While I completely agree with you there's still one point where it doesn't work as intended : according to Ghost_Spectre, when in an attempt to use the Force Barrier while "forbidden" by Electronet, the ability is considered as having fired and goes in CD. However, other escapes do not act like this : they are simply forbidden and saved for when Electronet wears off, their CD do not initiate in an attempt to use. Having the CD of Force Barrier starting do not seem normal and is detrimental, especially considering its length.

 

If Force Barrier cannot be stopped from starting, and if we consider its effect is the polar opposite of Electronet, then Electronet could as well be destroyed by Force Barrier at the same time it cancels itself. Like this, Force Barrier will have removed an hostile effect, and Electronet would have stopped Force Barrier from being an escape.

 

That should not be the case. Force Barrier should be unusable while hindered. If you attempt to use Force Barrier while hindered, you should get a red, center-screen message that says something like, "Can't do that while hindered," and Force Barrier should not activate or go on cooldown. If you find this isn't the case, then please officially report it as a bug in the bug report forum.

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This answer is further proof they do all they can do to screw the sorcerer / sage players. They started with 1.2 and haven't stopped.

 

So basically you're mad because they aren't as unbelievably OP as they were prior to 1.2? LOL! Sorc/ Sage is still by far the easiest class to play for max return.

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I recognize that "customer service" rules indicate that you should apologize for the misunderstanding, but from my point of view, the fault lies with the OP, here. He simply made assumptions --likely supported by his own bias-- that weren't true.

 

Force Barrier says it will protect you from all negative effects while channeled .

 

Electronet says it will prevent the target from using escapes.

 

Pretty clear. Force Barrier needs to be channeled to get the effects. Electronet prevents it from being channeled. There is nothing about Force Barrier that says it will do a cleanse for all negative effects before the channel. So, I'd say the end result is pretty clear: If you're hit with Electronet, you can't use Force Barrier. Conversely, if you're already channeling Force Barrier, Electronet should have no effect.

 

The problem seems to be that the OP wanted "controlled" to mean "being affected by any abilities that restrict your actions" and "escape" to mean "an ability that lets you move away from danger". In both cases, the OP appears to be incorrect. Instead "controlled" means "unable to control your movement and actions" and "escape" means "an ability that lets you temporarily remove yourself from combat". They made assumptions based on their hopes and desires for their class to have an unstoppable ability. Their anger, then, is misplaced. The tooltips were suitably accurate, he just failed to comprehend their meaning.

 

Bioware's only failures here are in not returning Sorc/Sages to their early godliness and in apologizing for something that did not warrant an apology.

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If they tell me that is the case, "working as intended." Then I am done with this game and this godawful company and their illicit business practices.

 

Why? Just because your uber ability has a single weakness? Mature *nods*

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No, because tooltip is broken. Ask Assassin/Shadow players about Force Shroud/Resilience...

 

In this case, the problem even lies in mechanics explainations/tips, not the ability tooltip : it is clearly said that only accuracy above 100% reduces defences chances, but even with more than 100% of defense left, there are still these 5% of being hit that have not been explained anywhere but here on the forums.

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Did this just become a rage quit thread from an ability not working the way someone wanted it to?

 

 

To the OP: the BW post did tell you how to get out of it.

 

Rage quit? No. If you read what I said exactly, I have a decision to make on whether or not to continue. If I do quit, I won't be coming here to announce it to the world I'm leaving. I'll just leave and move on. Discussing my options does not make it a rage quit.

 

The fact that BioWare found a way to get around their screw up is par for the course on how they operate. In neither tool tip does it mention "hindrance" as an effect. They just made it up so that the Sorcerer/Sage's only true defensive ability can be neutralized. In other words, they gave these AC an ability that cannot be used to defend with when faced by a Trooper or Merc. They've been screwing these ACs since 1.2.

 

This is what I have to decide on whether or not to continue in a game where developers cannot abide by definitive information they release about an ability only to change it because "they put up a poor definition" in their tool tip about a given power. If someone wants to equate that to rage quitting, then they will. However, it does not make it true.

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I recognize that "customer service" rules indicate that you should apologize for the misunderstanding, but from my point of view, the fault lies with the OP, here. He simply made assumptions --likely supported by his own bias-- that weren't true.

 

Force Barrier says it will protect you from all negative effects while channeled .

 

Electronet says it will prevent the target from using escapes.

 

Pretty clear. Force Barrier needs to be channeled to get the effects. Electronet prevents it from being channeled. There is nothing about Force Barrier that says it will do a cleanse for all negative effects before the channel. So, I'd say the end result is pretty clear: If you're hit with Electronet, you can't use Force Barrier. Conversely, if you're already channeling Force Barrier, Electronet should have no effect.

 

The problem seems to be that the OP wanted "controlled" to mean "being affected by any abilities that restrict your actions" and "escape" to mean "an ability that lets you move away from danger". In both cases, the OP appears to be incorrect. Instead "controlled" means "unable to control your movement and actions" and "escape" means "an ability that lets you temporarily remove yourself from combat". They made assumptions based on their hopes and desires for their class to have an unstoppable ability. Their anger, then, is misplaced. The tooltips were suitably accurate, he just failed to comprehend their meaning.

 

Bioware's only failures here are in not returning Sorc/Sages to their early godliness and in apologizing for something that did not warrant an apology.

 

You conveniently forgot that it states in the tool tip that it can be used while control. But don't let that stop you from making assumptive statements.

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Why? Just because your uber ability has a single weakness? Mature *nods*

 

Uber ability? You mean like the Marauder's Enraged Defense? Or the Trooper/Merc's Hydraulic Override? Or Shadow/Assassin's? Phase Walk? Of the Jugg/Guardian's immunity to all controlling effects after force leaping when spec for it? Oh yeah, I forgot to mention they all have short cool downs. Never mind that the Sorcerer/Sage's uber ability has the longest cool down in the game and only lasts for 10 secs. Oh yeah it's so f'n uber. Oh and we forget to mention that it is a self CC that removes the ACs in question from doing anything to help the team. Yup, you're right it is completely and utterly UBER! A mature person would have looked at it from the stand point in association with all other powers. I guess that leaves you out Asavrede.

 

So pardon me for questioning the establishment again...should I go ahead and eat a round now for penitence?

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