So I thought that story mode from now on was supposed to be even easier than story mode EV and KP? I swear I read that in one of their official press releases? We decided to do story mode tonight of the new raid to test the waters. I'd say it was more challenging than some of the HM bosses in EV and KP?

Well the new raid is (technically) supposed to be a full "tier" above karagga and EV, so I would hope it has its own niche difficulty even on the normal settings

Story mode was hard but I did hear Sroty mode was off the charts

So I thought that story mode from now on was supposed to be even easier than story mode EV and KP? I swear I read that in one of their official press releases? We decided to do story mode tonight of the new raid to test the waters. I'd say it was more challenging than some of the HM bosses in EV and KP?

 

You did not read that. Sorry.

You did not read that. Sorry.

 

Actually he did, cause i remember reading it as well. I think it was from the guild summit.

 

 

 

 

So I thought that story mode from now on was supposed to be even easier than story mode EV and KP? I swear I read that in one of their official press releases? We decided to do story mode tonight of the new raid to test the waters. I'd say it was more challenging than some of the HM bosses in EV and KP?

 

Yup i remember them also saying this, while i have not ran it yet i saw on the PTR forums that is was also pretty hard on story mode. So i am guessing they didn't change it for live.

Edited April 14, 2012 by Bladedakoda

http://www.pcgamer.com/2012/03/09/5-things-you-need-to-know-about-the-old-republics-future/

 

First bullet on #3. When I read this it seemed to me that story mode would be for puggers and small very casual guilds. Oh well their game, if they wanna backtrack and alienate the people they intended story mode for what do I care, I'll spend most my time in HMs anyway.

http://www.pcgamer.com/2012/03/09/5-things-you-need-to-know-about-the-old-republics-future/

 

First bullet on #3. When I read this it seemed to me that story mode would be for puggers and small very casual guilds. Oh well their game, if they wanna backtrack and alienate the people they intended story mode for what do I care, I'll spend most my time in HMs anyway.

 

That does not say that the new OP story mode would be easier than EV and KP story modes (which is what the OP claimed he read).

 

It says they are making story modes easier than they currently are (and EV and KP have got slightly easier in story mode).

 

Story mode of the new operation is easier than Hard mode of the new operation. But is not, and was never said to be easier than EV and KP story modes.

 

So basically is working as intended and as promised.

If what you are saying is correct that 'On the flipside, Normal Mode is becoming Story Mode and will be even easier. The idea is that everyone will be able to see the content in Story Mode (right now only 38% of level-50 characters have stepped foot into an Operation), Hard Mode will be the main mode for organized guilds, and only the most elite players will beat Nightmare.' Then story mode EC should be EVEN easier in comparison to HM EC when you compare it to normal mode EV/KP to HM EV/KP. Is that how I am understanding you?

 

Cmon normal mode EV/KP first night in 10/10 without even knowing the fights, with one wipe on Fabricator in KP completely disregarding most boss mechanics. So now you want to say that I misread that normal mode being completely renamed to story mode so that, and I quote, EVERYONE will be able to see the content.

 

Lol look I don't care I don't have a dog in this fight. I simply observed that this raid was not as easy in comparison than previous normal modes and was actually imo more difficult than at least half of the HM bosses from the first tier. I cannot compare to nightmare because I'm just not at that point anymore raiding like I used to be in WoW. And honestly I think most encounters are lazily designed in this game with enrage timers instead of dynamic content where staying alive IS the enrage timer but that is a totally different argument. My understanding was that people who so chose could go from normal mode EV/KP into story mode EC into story mode 3rd tier etc etc ad infinitum. Not have to do up to HM of previous tier to progress to story mode next tier.

 

My observation was actually this....If this is the difficulty they intended for story then wow they are gonna have some unhappy casuals and people who prefer to pug at 2 am on Wednesdays because that is the only day they can raid. Time will tell and as much as they have gotten right they've gotten an equal amount wrong and I'd hate to see a game I'm enjoying lose large chunks of its subscription base.

Story mode is as easy as EV/KP if you know the mechanics.

 

People are banging their heads against the wall because the strategies aren't set in stone and published on every website.

 

Give it a few weeks and people will be facerolling through the content.

 

It's pretty established that hardcore guilds go in, kill the bosses share the strats and then try harder content.

 

EV and kp seem like cakewalks now because you know what to do when you walk in the door. People don't know EC content yet and that is why they are having a hard time.

 

Hell on Story Mode you can ignore mechanics and steamroll the bosses as it stands.

That does not say that the new OP story mode would be easier than EV and KP story modes (which is what the OP claimed he read).

 

It says they are making story modes easier than they currently are (and EV and KP have got slightly easier in story mode).

 

Story mode of the new operation is easier than Hard mode of the new operation. But is not, and was never said to be easier than EV and KP story modes.

 

So basically is working as intended and as promised.

 

Normal Mode is becoming Story Mode and will be even easier. Not really sure what part of that you fail to understand.

 

They said at the summit that story mode would be for people to pug, and just get a group of friends who don't raid together so they can see the content.

 

Clearly it is not working as intended.

Edited April 15, 2012 by Bladedakoda

I simply observed that this raid was not as easy in comparison than previous normal modes and was actually imo more difficult than at least half of the HM bosses from the first tier.

 

Yea well DUH it is a tier 2 operation meaning you have to clear tier 1 content first.

 

Just because it's story mode and more accessible that doesn't mean EVERYONE will be able to try it. Some people will never hit 50 but that doesn't mean they should get to try operations. Some people will get to 50 but never get any daily gear and so probably never be able to do story mode tier 1 ops.

 

This is no different. You need to progress through tier 1 story mode content before you are able to do tier 2 story mode content.

 

This is how MMO progression works.

As said above me the raid is easy it's just the mechanics are more involved then in EV and KP, you actually have to do stuff!!

 

Also they changed the raid dynamic, you need 2 tanks now instead of one, just give the fights ago and figure them out instead of relying on people to make strat's, you don't need to be a hardcore raider to do it

Normal Mode is becoming Story Mode and will be even easier. Not really sure what part of that you fail to understand.

Totally understand that, never indicated I didn't.

 

They said at the summit that story mode would be for people to pug, and just get a group of friends who don't raid together so they can see the content.

 

You forget that the new operation is tier 2 even in story mode so no one should be trying it unless they clear tier 1 content. The OP thought the new operation would be easier than EV and KP, he was so wrong.

You forget that the new operation is tier 2 even in story mode so no one should be trying it unless they clear tier 1 content. The OP thought the new operation would be easier than EV and KP, he was so wrong.

 

Yeah, the problem is that the reports are that it's harder than EV/KP HM. Which means progression is now SM KP/EV HM KP/EV SM EC which isn't what is intended.

Yeah, the problem is that the reports are that it's harder than EV/KP HM. Which means progression is now SM KP/EV HM KP/EV SM EC which isn't what is intended.

 

Progression still flows upwards so I don't understand the problem.

Progression still flows upwards so I don't understand the problem.

 

Okay, I'll try to explain it.

 

Not everybody likes/wants to do/ can do/etc "hard mode" content. While other players do like that content.

 

In an attempt to please both groups BW came out with mutliple difficulty levels. Story mode is for those who want a level of difficultly less than hard modes.

 

So let's talk about progression for these people under the current system. They do EV/KP normal mode and then.... Well then they are done. Why? Because EV/KP hardmode is more difficult than they want and the new raid on story mode is even harder. There is no progression for them. It's one raid and out. This would completely defeat the purpose of having a story mode in the first place.

 

A more sensible progression for the story mode crowd would be EV/KP SM followed by EC story mode with EC story mode being easier than EV/KP hard mode. Meanwhile the "hard mode" crowd can progress to EC hard mode.

Not everybody likes/wants to do/ can do/etc "hard mode" content. While other players do like that content.

 

Can't please everyone and you break games if you try to please them all.

 

People not willing to put in effort to progress shouldn't get to see that content.

Can't please everyone and you break games if you try to please them all.

 

People not willing to put in effort to progress shouldn't get to see that content.

 

Yes i am sure Bio put in all that work for only 36% of the player base to see the content. Sorry but im so sick of this kind of attitude it does nothing for the community. There should be a mode easy enough for anyone to go into and have some fun.

 

Just to make it clear i do raid, but i think people that don't, or might be trying it for the first time should have a easy mode.

But Bluestone they specifically said they ARE trying to please everyone. And the way they made it sound at G Summit that there would be a progression flow just for pugs and super casual small guilds, Story Mode. I don't think any one of us here arguing that point are saying it is too hard for us, because I do, will and will always spend most my time in HMs. I'm saying they are risking large chunks of subscriber base with the marked increase in difficulty from normal mode EV/KP to story mode EC.

 

Should it be more difficult than tier 1? Absolutely. But it seemed to me that you need to have done HM Tier 1 in order to be successful in Story Tier2 and some people simply lack the skill, time or ambition to do HMs even after they have done the normals 20 times. Say all you want about WoW but LFR was a brilliant move on their part after losing (and I've lost track) around 2 million subscribers from Wrath to Cata. Over time I forsee LFR being a design that will bring more people back or at least stabalize their subscription numbers.

 

This is not EQ1 or Vanilla WoW where people have to bang their heads over and over again in order to proceed. These companies have correctly (accounting wise) realized that more inclusive means more money. More money equals ability to put more into game. I'm sorry Story mode as it stands is not inclusive. People will watch the strats and still wipe for 4 hours on the 1st boss maybe out of luck get to 2nd boss in here and then out of frustration they will quit game or quit raiding get bored level alt try raiding again and quit game. I DO NOT want that to happen to this game. I, for the most part, am enjoying this game.

Normal Mode is becoming Story Mode and will be even easier. Not really sure what part of that you fail to understand.

 

They said at the summit that story mode would be for people to pug, and just get a group of friends who don't raid together so they can see the content.

 

Clearly it is not working as intended.

 

Um no it is. I could clear this content with a competent group of friends you are simply assuming that brand new content that people are using trial and error for is difficult. This isnt KP or EV you cant simply walk in and take loot.

the new ops on story mode isnt all that hard to be honest, once you know the tactics its pretty much easy to clear.Maybe they should make a raid where you only have to loot the boss and not kill it so everybody will be happy

You can watch the guild summit here:

 

between 6-8 minutes is the part about hard/nightmare and story modes. It doesn't say that storymode EC would be easier than EV/KP. It says that they expect you to gear up through EV/KP but the gearing 'curve' would not be so steep compared to hard/nighmare modes. They also said that they were going to focus more on mechanics etc. rather than just requiring more stats to beat the fights.

 

When groups get used to the new mechanics for EC I dont think it will seem as difficult as people are making out now. Since there is a lot more movement and so on required for the fights compared to EV/KP, DPS/healing will suffer until players get used to it. When people adjust to what is required then the DPS will improve.

At 8:15-8:33 he also says 'it's gonna be a LITTLE' bit more than the first tier gear as far as gear-up required. And he also says not quite as much difference from going from one to the next.' So how does everyone interpret that? Either you can go from gearing in normal EV/KP to story EC is one way, or you can interpret it as needed HM EV/KP gear to progress from normal-HM (1st tier)-story-HM (2nd tier)? I interpreted it as normal-story(2ndtier)-story(3rd tier).

 

The itemization in this game sucks. Badly. There are very few pieces of gear that aren't tier that are actually better or equal to tier gear. In wow bosses each had numerous DIFFERENT drops. In WoW you could get great gear from raids that weren't tier because let's face it often the tier bonus stunk and the stats on non tier gear was actually better. And you'd see numerous gear combinations on people and rarely did one person look the same as another. Definitely not so in this game.

 

I'm saying that casuals and pugs are not gonna like this tier of content and will get frustrated and quit. Or just not raid. When they've said they want nearly everyone to be able to do some form of Ops.

 

About the 4th or 5th day of Cataclysm I correctly predicted on forums that while I wasn't having much trouble with the heroics and enjoyed healing them the challenge many casuals would hate it, combined with the changes to healing. I got flamed saying the challenge is great brah so much better than facerolling like Wrath moron!! lol lulz haha loser noob! Then slowly but surely subscription loss. It was barely a month after release that they nerfed the 5 mans lol I had never seen such a quick nerf to large chunks of the content. But the damage had been done. Now, (I don't play wow anymore btw, 6 years was enough and no it wasn't the difficulty) I read the WoW forums from time to time and it's all man dead servers cmon Blizz merge them!!! And guess what from Blizz (paraphrasing here obviously) 5 man heroics in MoP will be more in tune with Wrath content. Gasp!!! wow!! I guess Blizz has learned their lesson. The Wrath paradigm of accessabilty and inclusiveness was still the best ever in an MMO despite what anyone thought of the actual content.

 

So the lesson don't give a large section of your playerbase (the dreaded term casuals in this case) something easy and attainable and fun to them, then pull the rug out and make them beat their head against the wall.

I just want this game to succeed. WoW with 12 million subs can lose 2-3 million and still be in great shape. This game with (if you believe the numbers) 2 million subs CANNOT lose a million and still be in great shape.

 

I fully admit that I'm middle of the road, skill, time to play, ambition to raid etc. Many of you 'hardcore' are actually more middle of the road than you want to admit. But I will step off my soap box and drop this all if some of you will empathize with people who aren't at your skill levels and see that this new tier just may be a bit much for people used to EV/KP normal and are expecting more of the same...

I just want this game to succeed. WoW with 12 million subs can lose 2-3 million and still be in great shape. This game with (if you believe the numbers) 2 million subs CANNOT lose a million and still be in great shape.

 

I fully admit that I'm middle of the road, skill, time to play, ambition to raid etc. Many of you 'hardcore' are actually more middle of the road than you want to admit. But I will step off my soap box and drop this all if some of you will empathize with people who aren't at your skill levels and see that this new tier just may be a bit much for people used to EV/KP normal and are expecting more of the same...

 

My guild only just recently cleared KP Normal a couple weeks ago. We are a casual guild and sometimes don't even have 8 people available on raid day. Me and my guild are far from hardcore. Yet I understand progression of gear and content enough to know that in time I will get to Denova (the new operation) after we reach it in the natural games progression.

 

I also know that by the time me and my guild are up to Denova they will have fixed any bugs/balanced it if Bioware see the need to balance it.

 

But i sincerely hope they ignore the people that want story mode to become "walk in and loot the boss" mode as an earlier poster phrased it.

Edited April 15, 2012 by Bluestone