did you not read it? Both Sages and Shadows are getting nerfed, as a BH/Troopers.

Assassins and Sorcerers are getting nerfed as well. Overload has saved my Assassin more times than I can count because it not only hits those in front of me but also THOSE ENEMIES BEHIND ME! which has been a life saver when solo against a group of targets, and now Overload will only work in front of me? That is not a good idea from where I am standing. I dont do PvP much in fact I hardly do it at all and players like me are getting screwed over all because the PvP fanatics are whining? (which they always do) This game is STORY based which means a higher focus on PvE not PvP in my opinion.

I don't see these changes being significant in pvp or pve. A smart opponent would position them selves in such a way as to avoid being knock off in huttball, but it does raise the skill level. This will not affect me much as I can turn in air and knock back due to me playing a hunter in wow. Try jumping in the air turn 180 degrees fire an ability and turn 180 degrees back to your original position before you land. That took a bit of mouse turning and skill to do correctly. If I remember correctly it was required to kite mobs. This change actually gives me a reason to do that again.

Exactly. I already do it plenty as Balance spec.

Isn't it interesting how PvP follows natural selection and players apply thought to their environment?

 

PvP is a team sport and balanced that way, not solo. It's also a tactics activity and it's rock/paper/scissors. Get yourself a stealther buddy to watch your back and stunlock the stunlocker.

You realise of course that in PUG's a team can have no stealths, let alone ones that will be willing to help out and not rack up kills. Limited server pop on Gav Daragon makes PvP a very different ball game compared to high pop servers. Furthermore, OP's are a solo class, which if PvP is a team affair, the class isn't made correctly since they can do fine without the rest of their team. Anything that can Stealth & Heal themselves will find themselves very much self sufficient in PvP, rarely needing a team. There is a reason why full teams of ops or scoundrels are considered one of the worst teams you can encounter in PvP.

It's not just a SWTOR thing either. The combo of stealth & heal is often avoided on other MMO's for the very reason it can make classes completely self reliant in almost every situation.

Guess I'll reply with what I put in my guild Forums

Guess I was expecting more.

 

Made it sound like a big change was happening to resolve. My Marauder's "God Mode" just takes a little longer to activate is all. Jumping into a group and getting 4 people to blow their CC is still going to be worth doing. I don't see this is a "big change"

 

-Sorc self heal ability sounds interesting depending on it's cooldown. But it sounds amazing for healing sorcs.

-Sorc knockback is going to be OP.

-10m is too short for the stun changes. 15 is better. I can understand 30 being too much.

-Force Speed breaking immobilizing/snare effects is good. When a warrior/knight charges you, you can speed away instantly before they can use another ability, then force slow them. We'll probably have to get use to using Force Choke at that point. Hybrid healing spec if they don't change Lightning Effusion, could become OP.

-Polarity Shift change is kind of OP. I honestly hate the Merc/Trooper one with a passion. 25% DR and I can't stop you from healing? Let me just go find another target to kill. I'd rather see it changed to not allow skill lockouts instead.

-Backlash change is OK as long as this means it now adds resolve. I have to say though... crazy good in PvE. See a player getting low? Bubble them and watch them stun everything around them.

For the sorc knockback. Please note the range increase. I do believe this gives them the longest range knockback. Second only to Force Push.

For the merc knockback. Please note you have TWO knockbacks. They gave you a CC that does not effect resolve.

i agree with the OP, SOOOOOOO many times have i seen skills broken because devs wanna make pvp more "balanced" - a term that only means, "we're going to nerf the most complained about class".

 

so lame. i wish they would just leave all the pvpers out to dry. i mean, most of them left for superior pvp experienced promised to them by ANet, so i believe hardcore pvpers are less than 20% of the current subscriber base.

 

screw em.

Did you read the thread or did you not see the bandwagon break down on your way in?

i agree with the OP, SOOOOOOO many times have i seen skills broken because devs wanna make pvp more "balanced" - a term that only means, "we're going to nerf the most complained about class".

 

so lame. i wish they would just leave all the pvpers out to dry. i mean, most of them left for superior pvp experienced promised to them by ANet, so i believe hardcore pvpers are less than 20% of the current subscriber base.

 

screw em.

I still fail to see how any of the items listed in this blog post effects PVE at all, What just because you cant knockback trash without positioning yourself is a nerf to PVE?

adding a self heal and interrupt to some clases is a nerf to Pve how?

While I could overall see arguments that more tweaks are needed here or there, I think the ones listed here are all interesting changes that will not break or drastically change how these classes play, the overall tone of the OP seems to be alarmist to an unwarranted degree.

forumuser.txt

http://www.swtor.com/blog/developer-update-class-changes-and-balance-game-update-1.4

 

As seen here, there are a slew of serious nerfs coming to certain professions. Why? Because the PVP aspect of this community is complaining (as they will ALWAYS do, no matter what the situation is) about imbalance.

 

So, to fix it, for the sake of making PVPers happy, they are nerfing PVE skills in the process.

 

Common mistake for MMORPG developers.

 

This was the reason SOE put out the "Combat Upgrade" aka, the CU, which, only second to the NGE, was a huge mistake.

 

Now... what impact is this going to have? Are you going to make the PVP gamers happy? NO! They are just going to see a new class as the FOTM overpowered class and complain about that.

 

Nerf-bat-to-hell sages, and then some other class becomes OP in WZ's...

 

I implore you devs... that if you are going to smash a classes play style, because of imbalance in PVP, that maybe you give some thought to how it is going to impact PVE players.

 

Thanks.

People actually liked nge,cu was a bigger mistake hence the reason it changed to the nge so quickly.

PvE got EASIER.

• Interrupt on Mercs/Commandos.
  
• Flat-out buffs to Merc/Commando healers.
  
• Sorcs/Sages get a FREE SELF-HEAL every 30 seconds.
  
• Consulars/Inquisitors have their Force Speed cooldown reduced by 10 seconds.
  

I'm not sure what the current abilities are for Shadows/Assassins, but it doesn't look like they much of a PvE nerf there either, if any.

And OP is whining about having use a tiny bit of thought when he knocks stuff back?

Sigh.

Well the commandos cried and now have a 30m range interrupt. Oh and Vanguard tanks have even less control with their 4m interrupt and now 10m Cryo Grenade.

They can make the changes to the abilities in such a way that PvE isn't affected cause they want to 'balance' PvP ie. Guard

Cryo Grenade (Range 30m, 10m for enemy players.) <- Why can't they do this? Answer: It will take too much work when apparently constant wholesale changes are necessary.

Same goes for Force Stun and its counterpart.

I know the Consulars are not going to be happy about the changes to Force Wave regarding PvE. Especially in Ops when they're pulling agro because the Vanguards can't gather enough mobs, etc.

Rediculous.

I know the Consulars are not going to be happy about the changes to Force Wave regarding PvE. Especially in Ops when they're pulling agro because the Vanguards can't gather enough mobs, etc.

Sure, they can cry about having to think to knockback, or they can realize that they just got to use Force Speed 3 times per minute instead of 2. You know, in case they want to RUN AWAY from the mobs hitting them in the face instead of spamming a knockback button and wondering why it only hits the direction that the mobs are likely to be coming from anyway.

Oh, and If a Sorc/Sage DOES get hit once or twice, it's not like they have an instant, free self-heal or anything now.

Well the commandos cried and now have a 30m range interrupt. Oh and Vanguard tanks have even less control with their 4m interrupt and now 10m Cryo Grenade.

Guess they'll just have to pull the target to them instead. Or if they're a tank, charge them. Where do they need a 30m AoE stun again? For interrupts?

They can make the changes to the abilities in such a way that PvE isn't affected cause they want to 'balance' PvP ie. Guard

 

Cryo Grenade (Range 30m, 10m for enemy players.) <- Why can't they do this? Answer: It will take too much work when apparently constant wholesale changes are necessary.

For all you or anyone else knows, maybe they are working to make that change. But you're talking about changing a whole system of how something works. It takes time. Right now changing a 30 to a 10 will have to do. And I would guess the reason why Guard/Taunt work the way they do in PvP is because they wanted to make tank spec's useful in PvP. Something no other MMO I have played has done.

Same goes for Force Stun and its counterpart.

I know the Consulars are not going to be happy about the changes to Force Wave regarding PvE. Especially in Ops when they're pulling agro because the Vanguards can't gather enough mobs, etc.

 

Rediculous.

Where does this happen? This sounds like a tank problem or a problem where said Consular needs to learn to hold back. I can't think of a single fight in an Op that my Sorc needed to knockback. And only one place where AoE threat can be an issue and that is Kephess. In which your tanks should be rotating their AoE taunts between the waves for that problem. (One for the second spawn, other for the 3rd spawn.)

Few pointers from a tank's PoV

1) Don't knockback. It makes it harder for me to get agro(I am in fact a melee after all, even as Powertech)

2) If you get agro, run to me so the mobs come to me. If you run away they'll probably just end up catching up and killing you anyway, leaving me to chase them. Leaving me to probably lose agro on something else.

3) If pulling threat is an issue, I know you're AoE is powerful, hold of a little and give the tank time.

As a Powertech tank(aka Vanguard copy) I have a lot of AoE threat options. Don't know what your group's problem is. You do know to gear up tanks first right?

Speaking as someone who never PVP's (not my thing really), IMO all the drama seems to be making mountains out of molehills as far as these changes are concerned.

What would have helped avoid all the drama would have been the original Bioware post at least acknowleging that they are aware of the effects class changes have on PVE as well. Unfortunately in their post they mention PVP multiple times as the justification without at any point giving their opinion on how the changes would affect PVE.

It would just make sense to me to recognise the whole community when announcing class changes rather than providing an easy route for the issue to become so divisive.

Being a arsenal spec merc for PVE, I both love and hate this. I never complained about not having the interrupt ability, and it was one less thing to worry about when I'm trying to max dps something. There are other people in the group designed to deal with interrupts. Shorting tracer dart to 10m now takes this off my list for when I need to be able to insta-cast stuff on the move. I spend most of my time turret casting, but when I need to move, its always at range and I dump all my insta-cast stuff. Arsenal does not need a up close ability substituted for one of their long range, pvp/pve or whatever.

If anything the interrupt should have been added to rocket punch. the one ability if I'm up close, will cycle.

Stop balancing pvp by screwing up PVE, k?

I do like the tracer lock set up though for the healer side of merc.

If they keep it up, they'll be lucky to have enough free players to keep it alive.

"We’re confident that these changes create a more predictable, readable, and ultimately enjoyable PvP experience."

confident? dumb it down some more, and lets see how confident you are afterwards....

 

What would have helped avoid all the drama would have been the original Bioware post at least acknowleging that they are aware of the effects class changes have on PVE as well. Unfortunately in their post they mention PVP multiple times as the justification without at any point giving their opinion on how the changes would affect PVE.

 

The reason they don't discuss the impact on pve is because there is virtually none. Mercs/commandoes can finally interrupt things like nearly every other class in the game(about time really), the stealth pvp specs were buffed, survivability was improved for sorcs and mercs, and knockbacks were made into cones. I don't really see people using their knockbacks in pve except in EV, to push trash off that one side near the lava pits.

Only other thing that was changed was pvp cc.

You realise of course that in PUG's a team can have no stealths, let alone ones that will be willing to help out and not rack up kills.

Because PvP PUGs are not teamplay. All they are is X random strangers grouping just to get in the door and then blowing off any cooperation or care for team success or safety. If you play in that environment, then it's up to you to watch your back against stealthers NOT Biowares job to nerf them out of your existence. Play with people you trust and know IMO. It's what guilds are for, or for the more hardcore it's what premades are for.

Yes, that would be nice.

 

PvP is a bad focus for MMOs. PvE should be prioritised.

don't u see lots of unsubber r pvpers?

pvp server population drop so fast than other servers,

cause swtor has serious prob. in pvp.

and now BW make it worst.

Hey guys, what's going on in this thread?

Over the top drama about how the game is ruined. Same old same old.

Wonder how many people here actually read the blog before commenting on it.

I repeat, end game pve has not been touched.

They/re killing PVE again for the sake of PVP? Well time to cancel my sub.

You read one OP's ill-informed thoughts on the subject and you want to cancel your sub?

Believe me, Bioware's done (or failed to do) enough to make me seriously consider jumping ship as well, but at least I put some independent thought into my reasons.

Read the upcoming changes yourself. Think for yourself.

To be honest as a tank if i am in a group where people knocking back mobs i will ask them not to do so and then quit if they continue to do so. There is very little use to KBs in pve if you're playing with half decent people.

 

In PvP my carnage marauder looses more damage on his ravage from my team mates KBing my targets then i do from anything the enemy does....

 

So in the greater sense of things, it doesnt effect PvE much, and is useful in PvP.

I agree with this, on any of my melee chars I dislike having my targets knocked back out of my range by my team. In pve on my tanks, I want to control the fight and peeling, not have mobs flying thru the air every which way.

I would prefer the change to be a front and back cone but can work with frontal cone.

So, I want to make sure I understand this correctly... The biggest gripe is that the AoE Knockback now is a cone instead of a 360 degree AoE?...

Seriously? This is the big gripe for PvE? Honestly, stop keyboard turning, use your mouse, rotate mash AoE key, knockback npc.... Why does this seem so complicated? A nerf implies a serious change in functionality.... I dont see how making this an AoE cone is that huge a deal. Come to think of it... Off the top of my head I cant recall any mmo I have played where anyone got a 360 degree AoE knockback until this game... People have managed just fine with using cone knockbacks. The mechanic isn't new. Additionally I would add, for PvE purposes directional knockback should be more important than 360 degree AoE knockback because you can control the direction the NPC's go thus limiting accidental pulls.

As for healing, if your used to getting plowed from the back by NPC's may I purpose facing towards the direction the npc's come from if your incapable of turning and pushing a button? You dont have to be facing someone to heal them... Just saying. Also you could idk... Use an ability that lowers your threat generation in combination with a guard bubble... Logic people.... Really.

Also I didnt read this whole thread but after reading the first couple pages of complaints regarding knockbacks it was hard to take it seriously. My biggest concern that no one seemed to address was the resolve changes... As if we need bigger stun wars... But thats PvP and god knows we shouldnt discuss that in an obvious PvE thread.

The biggest mistake here, IMO, is that it reduces the fun factor, the wow factor of the special. A cone knockback is a much weaker visual mechanic than the current mechanic.

Either offer a cone mechanic that only works in raid and pvp play or offer both but disable the 360 mechanic in PVP.