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Bring Back my Electro Dart


Baarabas

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The 10m nerf to this ability is ridiculous. Ranged stuns weren’t the problem, we only have 1!!!!! This nerf alone caused me to unsub. I am back to see what 1.6 will bring, but every time I go to fire it off I am reminded how incompetent our Devs are. This was the stupidest nerf!!!! I will probably unsub again if it is not fixed in 1.6.
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The main thing is we are even more fecked vs gunslingers than before.

 

30m range could stop a slinger mowing you down or interrupt a cast he's doing.

 

 

 

Still, the devs say we are really good if we remember to bring our portable wall to hide behind. The magic one which stops pulls and leaps too I suppose.

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Yeah, it is really a noticable gimp in PvP. I know Pyro's use it on offense more than we use it on defense. With all the cast time, it actually holds our opponents in place so we can cast a whopper on them. Believe it or not, I use it with DFA. To me, DFA without a stun is near worthless in PvP. With a properly applied offensive stun (applied at range) DFA helps return some DPS to a Merc Class that has been nerf'd continously since the first patch.
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The main thing is we are even more fecked vs gunslingers than before.

 

30m range could stop a slinger mowing you down or interrupt a cast he's doing.

 

 

 

Still, the devs say we are really good if we remember to bring our portable wall to hide behind. The magic one which stops pulls and leaps too I suppose.

 

against good snipers, it was never helpful because they could just entrench in anticipation of your electrodart.

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against good snipers, it was never helpful because they could just entrench in anticipation of your electrodart.

 

This. There was a use for the 30m stun though. More than one actually.

 

Sometimes you'd see a Guardian change his focus target to you and he'd of course start with his Saber throw. If you were fast, you could stun him before he could leap to you. Very useful. You can't do that any more.

 

Also, if you were tasked by your team to target and kill an enemy Scoundrel/Ops healer, you could eventually work him down below 30% health and then of course you'd need to stun him to finish him off. Being able to do that at 30m was huge. Now you can't do that and instead must bring your toon to <10m. Which is perilously close to the enemy's copious stun abilities. So killing an enemy stealth healer (the most common type of course), is much harder for Merc dps.

 

Which is the entire point of course. Every patch has exposed the devs desire to pare back Merc dps effectiveness. They honestly believe that Merc dps is the most OP class in the game.

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Yeah I agree that was a completely unnecessary nerf, and even though I don't PvP much I can feel your pain. Like somebody mentioned above it's even harder now to go up against Gunslingers and that 1v1 I try to avoid, there is no way to win against one (at least in my arsenal spec) especially if they interrupt me.
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PvP breaks everything and I wish games would just give up with trying to encorporate it. This sucks for PvE. My Sorc gets a bit overwhelmed and I hit Electrocute (Not getting into Whirlwind!) but my Merc gets overwhelmed and I have to run in before I can stun?

 

I thought it was just stuipd, but now I know it was a nerf I am annoyed.

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Yeah. Electro dart was the only reliable skill. NOw I have to aggroo the group before I stun, so I shall get 20 DOTs before I can even fire a shot. :(

 

If you want to take one of the mobs in the group out of commision, why not just use Concussion Missile? It still has the 30m range and will incapacitate the mob for 60s...

 

Back to the topic of Electro Dart: if the idea is to have an "interrupt", then we have a new ability called Disabling Shot (introduced in the same patch that reduced the range on Electro Dart). It is a standard interrupt that locks out the interrupted ability for 4 seconds and it also has a 30m range.

 

The "nerf" to Electro Dart/Cryo Grenade was extended to other classes as well. Inquisitors/Consulars had the same happen to Electrocute/Force Stun. I believe the reasoning behind this is that these abilities were originally meant as "escape" abilities to allow you to stop a "melee" character in his tracks and get away from him. However, due to their range they were being used offensively against "everyone" and not just "melee". The "nerf" was to "restore" the original intent of these abilities.

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You're dismissing dart on snipers too easily, for whatever reason you needed to use it you could do it at 30m, now you have to run up like a moron while they have long range roots, long range instant AOE cc and when you get to 10m you're dam right he will pop entrench because it's glaringly obvious you were trying to get close enough for it.

 

At 30m there was no way of telling a merc was or was not going to stun you and they were far enough away that they could break off out of range too. Now they have to be well in a killzone to try to stun a sniper.

 

Back to the topic of Electro Dart: if the idea is to have an "interrupt", then we have a new ability called Disabling Shot (introduced in the same patch that reduced the range on Electro Dart). It is a standard interrupt that locks out the interrupted ability for 4 seconds and it also has a 30m range.

 

The "nerf" to Electro Dart/Cryo Grenade was extended to other classes as well. Inquisitors/Consulars had the same happen to Electrocute/Force Stun. I believe the reasoning behind this is that these abilities were originally meant as "escape" abilities to allow you to stop a "melee" character in his tracks and get away from him. However, due to their range they were being used offensively against "everyone" and not just "melee". The "nerf" was to "restore" the original intent of these abilities.

 

Tell me when you can use Disabling Shot to interrupt a sniper.

 

 

 

The reason they crippled EVERYONEs 30m instant stun is they reckoned it was too damaging for ranged classes.

 

So they believe melee now gets stunned as much as before because all stuns are now smashmonkey fighting range but ranged gets stunned less because OTHER ranged cant stun them from as far now.

 

So they were saving us from ourselves they say.

Edited by Gyronamics
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You're dismissing dart on snipers too easily, for whatever reason you needed to use it you could do it at 30m, now you have to run up like a moron while they have long range roots, long range instant AOE cc and when you get to 10m you're dam right he will pop entrench because it's glaringly obvious you were trying to get close enough for it.

 

At 30m there was no way of telling a merc was or was not going to stun you and they were far enough away that they could break off out of range too. Now they have to be well in a killzone to try to stun a sniper.

 

Tell me when you can use Disabling Shot to interrupt a sniper.

Yep. Snipers will be a problem. :(

 

The reason they crippled EVERYONEs 30m instant stun is they reckoned it was too damaging for ranged classes.

 

So they believe melee now gets stunned as much as before because all stuns are now smashmonkey fighting range but ranged gets stunned less because OTHER ranged cant stun them from as far now.

 

So they were saving us from ourselves they say.

 

Not arguing with you. This is exactly it.

 

As I said, I think the original intent of these abilities was that they be used on melee. Since we, the players, found other (not intended) uses for the abilities they changed the abilities so that they can only be used as intended (same as they "broke" many hybrid specs by tying certain skills to the relevant tree's form/cell/cylinder)

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The only good thing about the nerf to Electro Dart was that is was combined with other stun-tastic changes such as the Sorc stun bubble. As stupid as the Sorc stun bubble is, one can not dispute that it hurts melee more than it hurts us. Sure, half the time it is melee stunning other melee with it. But it still gives us non-responsive targets to shoot at. Which is the only way a Merc dps is going to win a fight. With 1.7 the Sorc stun bubble will be dialed back and combined with other nerfs, any Merc buffing in 1.7 will be negated.
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If you want to take one of the mobs in the group out of commision, why not just use Concussion Missile? It still has the 30m range and will incapacitate the mob for 60s...

 

Back to the topic of Electro Dart: if the idea is to have an "interrupt", then we have a new ability called Disabling Shot (introduced in the same patch that reduced the range on Electro Dart). It is a standard interrupt that locks out the interrupted ability for 4 seconds and it also has a 30m range.

 

The "nerf" to Electro Dart/Cryo Grenade was extended to other classes as well. Inquisitors/Consulars had the same happen to Electrocute/Force Stun. I believe the reasoning behind this is that these abilities were originally meant as "escape" abilities to allow you to stop a "melee" character in his tracks and get away from him. However, due to their range they were being used offensively against "everyone" and not just "melee". The "nerf" was to "restore" the original intent of these abilities.

 

I can see how it would be intended for more of a "melee" opponent so you could escape them, however, cutting it down to 10m doesn't allow you to escape anything. Even if you stunned them at max range (10m) and run like hell away from them, by the time the stun wears off you're still going to be in range of thier charge, pull, etc. so what's the point? Bringing it down that much is what caused a chunk of our 'escapability' issues in the first place.

 

They should split the difference and at least bring it up to 20m, this would at least allow Merc's enough time to get out of range of an instant charge, pull, etc. once the stun wears off.

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What was the point of this. I actually get stunned more and stay stunned longer now than I ever did prior to the resolve "fix". Let me get this straight:

 

-Ranged classes could stun from 30m.

-Melee classes can mainly stun from melee range.

-Thus in "theory" ranged classes could stun Ranged (30% population) and Melee (70%) classes (R+M=100% stunning occurring) all the time. Ranged classes can stun 100% of population.

-Melee classes could only stun melee classes (70%).

-Advantage Ranged.

 

-1.4 "fixed" resolve so that:

•Players under the effects of a control ability now build less Resolve for other control abilities that target them. The exact amount of Resolve the player builds is based on the time remaining on the ability currently controlling the player and the relative strength of that ability's effect. If two stuns of similar strength (such as Electrocute and Debilitate) target a single player at the same time, the second ability would generate very little Resolve.

 

-1.4 also nerf'd Range classes stuns to melee range (except Sniper).

-This in theory was "good" for Range, in that now Range cannot stun Range classes (thus only 70% stunning is occurring in the game).

 

Reality:

-Ranged stun at 10m now. Melee stun at that range. 100% stunning is still occurring, except it is occurring at melee range. (Disadvantage ranged)

-Nerf never took into account all the speed boosters and gap closers melee has at their disposal to get into stunning range. In addition they are all equiped with 2+ insta-cast stuns, and more break snares.

-Ranged classes still only have one instant stun.

-Resolve fix actually ensures your are stunned more so to return balance the Devs had to find a place to reduce stunning somehow.

-It didnt work very well.

-Ranged classes suffer in return.

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Electro Dart should be saved for melee toons that get on you. There is no need for a 30m range.

 

Sorry, but this is just plain WRONG. What is the primary mission for a dps character in most wzs? Kill the enemy healer. What is the most common type of enemy healer? Operative healer. Have you ever tried killing an Operative healer in a ranked wz setting without stunning him? You might as well say that your dps subclass is gimped. Oh wait, that is the case.... To kill an enemy Operative healer, you now need to get within 10 meters of him. Which puts you perilously close to the Operative's copious stun/defensive-cc arsenal. Which he can use 3x as often as you can use your offensive stuns. So nerfing the range of Electro Dart did in fact reduce the effectiveness of Merc dps. Which was BW's plan all along.

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Electro Dart should be saved for melee toons that get on you. There is no need for a 30m range.

 

Then remove snipers ranged root, it is *********** ******** they get to keep theres when they already had and still have higher survivability then Mercs against melee.

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Electro Dart should be saved for melee toons that get on you. There is no need for a 30m range.

 

I don't even know where to start... The nerf to this ability was almost game breaking to two already gimped builds (pvp dps mercs). If you don't pvp or play a healer... we are not talking to you. At least healer mercs have other ways of surviving. Merc pvp dps is broken there are basically 2 philosophies that can be applied to fix it. 1) give us more dps so our lack of utility balances out... 2) just give us better utility. That patch removed two of our gap wideners (rocket punch knock-back and ranged stun) in effect removing utility but not adding anymore dps. 10m cc for a ranged class is the stupidest thing ever imagined (as far as class balance goes) ESPECIALLY when every melee class have much better counters for each of them.

Edited by Choffware
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Sorry, but this is just plain WRONG. What is the primary mission for a dps character in most wzs? Kill the enemy healer. What is the most common type of enemy healer? Operative healer. Have you ever tried killing an Operative healer in a ranked wz setting without stunning him? You might as well say that your dps subclass is gimped. Oh wait, that is the case.... To kill an enemy Operative healer, you now need to get within 10 meters of him. Which puts you perilously close to the Operative's copious stun/defensive-cc arsenal. Which he can use 3x as often as you can use your offensive stuns. So nerfing the range of Electro Dart did in fact reduce the effectiveness of Merc dps. Which was BW's plan all along.

 

Sorry, but this is just plain WRONG. No DPS should be able to kill a healer 1 on 1. If anyone could solo a healer, whats the point of playing a healer again?

I don't even know where to start... The nerf to this ability was almost game breaking to two already gimped builds (pvp dps mercs). If you don't pvp or play a healer... we are not talking to you. At least healer mercs have other ways of surviving. Merc pvp dps is broken there are basically 2 philosophies that can be applied to fix it. 1) give us more dps so our lack of utility balances out... 2) just give us better utility. That patch removed two of our gap wideners (rocket punch knock-back and ranged stun) in effect removing utility but not adding anymore dps. 10m cc for a ranged class is the stupidest thing ever imagined (as far as class balance goes) ESPECIALLY when every melee class have much better counters for each of them.

Game breaking? Not even remotely in the ballpark. And why even mention Rocket Punch knockback in PvP? One can't play Arsenal and still expect people to believe they are a serious and knowledgeable PvPer. You can be one, but not both (knowledgeable OR serious, as Arsenal)

Edited by DarthBloodloss
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Sorry, but this is just plain WRONG. No DPS should be able to kill a healer 1 on 1. If anyone could solo a healer, whats the point of playing a healer again?

 

Well don't worry bub, under the current circumstances, a merc dps can't even get a Operative healer to use his Combat Stealth, much less actually conceive of killing him. And so I turn your statement on its head - if a merc dps is so useless that an enemy operative healer can simply ignore him and continue healing his teammates until the healers health hits 30%, then stun the merc dps, and then rinse and repeat, what's the point of playing a merc dps?

 

Theoretically in 1v1, the healer should win vs. a dps, it should just take forever and a day. But in the current state of affairs we aren't even close to that. An operative healer attacked by a merc dps can continue to output heals to his teammates at 30-50% effectiveness while absorbing the entirety of the mercs damage output. The merc dps is functionally equivalent to about half a player.

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The merc dps is functionally equivalent to about half a player.

 

If unhindered by anyone else your DPS output is half of others, you are simply BAD. Mercs are in the top half of the DPS spectrum. However, if you're talking about inability to put out consistent DPS in the chaos of battle with interrupts, knockbacks, stuns, then you're no longer talking about DPS ability, but the actual real problem behind the Merc class, which is how easily shut down they are.

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Sorry, but this is just plain WRONG. No DPS should be able to kill a healer 1 on 1. If anyone could solo a healer, whats the point of playing a healer again?

 

The point of being a healer is to regen players who take the hits for you, the ideal partner being a tank.

 

No healer should be able to prevent a dps from killing them 1 v 1. Whats the point of being a dps again?

Edited by Gyronamics
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