Jump to content

TFB : 16M-HM (world ranking)


Recommended Posts

Competition? This would only work in a game where all parties involved took the EXACT same group makeup with the EXACT same skill trees in order to see who the best players are. How about we just say good job and continue on?

 

I was curious what Fluff meant here too and I think you guys misunderstood what he was saying (I didn't get it either at first). I asked him and he's basically just saying that people get too worked up about some of the competition and the who did what first, when ultimately the rankings (8 vs. 16,etc. etc.) are fairly arbitrary. Just make it known that Fluff's views don't necessarily reflect the views of the whole guild ;).

 

As for competition post whatever change is about to happen, I'm down for it, although I wouldn't want to give up our "world 3rd" or whatever you want to call it, as we worked hard to get that kill. If I recall in WoW (the only other game I've raided competitively in), kills always counted whether they were pre-post nerf or pre-post buff as soon as it went live.

 

To be honest I don't put a lot of stock in the overall rankings here anyway. I mean no disrespect to anyone posting here or the thread originator and moderator, it's just the way I feel. Even though we killed bosses 3, 4, and 5 in the top 3 or top 4 kills, chances are good we'll be passed in the overall rankings because we logged on later on first day for bosses 1 and 2 (which honestly should be pretty irrelevant in their weight).

 

Anyway, we like friendly competition so sure, we'll be happy to try again whatever changes come in. To be honest I don't even really fully understand what the "bug" is.

Edited by DarkhorseForLife
Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Replies 178
  • Created
  • Last Reply

Top Posters In This Topic

Undercon (Republic) of The Shadowlands:

 

We're moving a little slowly because we're avoiding watching videos and reading stats, but thought it would be fun to track here anyway:

 

16 Man HM Writhing Horror 9/27/12 11:15 PM EST

http://files1.guildlaunch.net/guild/library/241577/UC_Writhing_Horror_(9.27.12).png

 

16 Man Hm Dread Guards 10/3/12 10:06 PM EST

http://files1.guildlaunch.net/guild/library/241577/UC__16M_HM_Dread_Guards_(10.3.12).png

 

Apologies for not having a time overlay - I will going forward.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Considering my guild is still working on TFB 16-man HM you can take my stab in the dark with a pinch of salt.

From watching every TFB HM vid on youtube, i'm gonna take a guess at the bug that these guys are talking about.

 

P2 boss starts at 50%. 6 Tentacles in P2, 5% each. But if the boss enrages before the last tentacle is killed the boss gains 200% damage multiplyer buff which unintentialy buffs the boss hp drop from the tentacle kill. From watching the MOX kill you can clearly see the boss lose 5% when the tentacle is killed at 8.22 but when the boss is enraged at 14.40 you can see the boss lose 10%.

 

(You're welcome for the free plug! and i enjoyed the vid thoroughly)

 

The strat used was clearly very smart as to reduce the hp in the burn phase to a managable amount, it's just a shame bioware once again failed to deliver polished content.

Edited by Garell
Link to comment
Share on other sites

If a boss enrages it is usually a mechanic to tell you "your raid dps is **** and i'm gonna **** you up now, better luck next time". So why would an enrage mechanic assist you in killing the boss?

 

It's a coding/design mechanic error on the Bioware side.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

are you sure that this is a bug and is not intended in any way?

 

When done properly, there is supposed to be a last phase which is a burn phase. Everyone spreads out and attacks the boss. You completely skip this phase when your DPS is so low that the boss enrages before all of the tentacles are dead. Some say that it is a bug and that it is impossible to kill all of the tentacles before enrage- well... we did it with nearly a minute left to spare. That proves that there is no bug to the enrage timer.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Yeah in our video you can see that we have plenty of time to spread out and shoot the boss before we pop the last tentacle. In all honesty we just assumed that was the way you are supposed to do it, but I guess that makes sense that this could be a bug based on how you explained it.

 

Honestly I don't really care one way or another, this theme of bosses doing special things at 10% or after an enrage timer is kind of a played out idea and I honestly feel like it's a little lame. I have never once thought to myself, boy this enrage/last 10% mechanic is so fun! It's cheap design designed to eat your quarters like an 80's arcade machine.

 

If this isn't the intended way to kill the boss, this just furthers my original comment that I think this boss is a little over tuned on 16m.

Edited by DarkhorseForLife
Link to comment
Share on other sites

The enrage is based off a timer to kill the boss, not a timer to kill tentacles. It is very possible to kill all the tentacles before enrage. The challenge comes in the burn phase. From my rough calculations, the raid has to do around 900,000 damage to the boss in this phase to drop him down to the 3% mark. Once the boss enrages during this phase, you have about 5-10 seconds longer to get the kill before too many people die. In order to get the kill without the bug, I estimate needing about 45-60 seconds of solid time spent burning the boss with all DPS still alive. Remember too that your DPS needs to spread out after killing the last tentacles, so add another 5-10 seconds to that burn time to account for movement. Again, these are rough calculations not exact figures so the actual numbers might vary.
Link to comment
Share on other sites

The bug essentially gives you 343k of free damage to the boss (5% boss hp).

 

So you either need to do 343k extra damage in the tantrum phase, which is approx 20sec of dps time at 1500dps per 1 dps'er.

Or you need to cover that extra damage before you hit the tantrum, however the boss suffers from the 75% damage reduction, so it would essentially be the same as doing 1.2mil

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Raid : Gardiens de l'Aube

Server : Battle Meditation [Eu-FR]

 

1st boss down - October 4, 22:32:12 heure de Paris (GMT + 1)

http://www.gardiensdelaube.fr/images/downs/tfb16hm-horror-gardiensdelaube.jpg

 

Some minutes have been spent trying desperately to find how to take a print screen with GMT hour... :( (explaining the difference between my local time and GMT time)

Edited by Castilla
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Pandora's Box has already been opened....

 

Yea... There's really nothing standing in the way of any guild killing it without the "bug" today on live. If that's what chosen wants to do, go do it and make a thread about it I guess.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

We killed it earlier this week, I suggested waiting for the patch so that it was impossible to cheat it still, otherwise a kill video would be a requirement for a "valid" pre-patch kill. Again all of this is assuming people even want to go through the effort of having a legitimate kill on the last boss and/or want it recognized.
Link to comment
Share on other sites

We killed it earlier this week, I suggested waiting for the patch so that it was impossible to cheat it still, otherwise a kill video would be a requirement for a "valid" pre-patch kill. Again all of this is assuming people even want to go through the effort of having a legitimate kill on the last boss and/or want it recognized.

 

 

 

I am all for legitimacy of a kill and progression in good fun and good times, but you cannot undo what has already been done. The playing field is no longer on par for anyone. These are my opinions, and not that of my guild's. I'll get shot for saying or even posting this.

 

The truth of the matter is, as I stated before, pandora's box is already opened. It cannot realistically be undone.

 

Given my history with knowing your guild, I will assume that it is not intentional nor will i take the last part of this comment to be derogatory or offensive, as i do not assume it's meant that way. However, the term "Legitimate" can no longer realistically be applied in the current context. The effort of having said legitimate kill is quite a mute point. It ceased to be after the first full clear of the instance. I like you guys, so before you think it, there is no animosity in this.

 

There are several sides to the problem that predicate this. None of which are the absolute at the fault of any party, but, have an ultimate effect on the outcome.

 

1. Crafting & gearing. The accessability and availability of the what could be argued as game breaking end game items have become available at a pace significantly sooner than intended. Where there is human intelligence, alternate methods are abound. While in the grand scheme of 1 out of 16 this is marginal, when a larger portion of the raid group has access to a large pool of resources, or inversly in some cases, the lack of the same items, The playing field is unbalanced. As an example, While i cannot speak for them, Friendly Fire may or may not have access to the same pool of end game items, that ultimately leave them out of the same race we all started. This would be signficantly unfair. Given that the content was known to have an issue does not affect the legitimacy of their or any other 16 man who would also like to participate in a "reset" for the race of personal achievements, time and effort. If the initial bug from the PTS where it was impossible to even reach phase 2 persisted until the bug is fixed, it would have been less of an issue, BUT, The issue would still exist.

 

2. Information. A significant amount of this has become available to all parties. Through good faith or not, as a result of write ups and disassembling the mechanics of the fights, the information or even misinformation produced thus far breaks the equality of the situation. Sharing in ones achievements, theories, and strategies from an actual kill, is great fun for the community, and personal satisfaction, but also creates an uneven playing field.

 

3. Epeen. If the intent of the original post was the throwing down the gauntlet between interested parties, everyone should be invloved, not just the aforementioned individuals. However, because of things like #1, it's askewed and we cannot exclude nor include everyone, and expect justification from the community as a whole through exclusion. If it's just to flex whose epeen is stronger, a much more private setting than the publicly available forums is a much better setting. Otherwise, we risk alienating and down playing the achievements of other non-included participants openly. If such an agreement is reached, it would need to be done in a private setting, with rules and terms, agreed upon by all participants in a manner fair to all parties. The only legitimacy of it would need to be made available only to said participants. Being honor bound would be the only way to make this viable, and again, appears it would take significantly more resources from any or all parties to define a kill as legitimate, yet on a fair basis.

 

4. Achievements. No one cannot ask anyone to concede their achievements. Doing so causes alienation of some individuals while others may not, both in the same guild, and in other guilds. Defining something as legitimate, unfortunately does just that. It causes hostilities towards a sitation out the of control of anyone, and for no inherent purpose, intended or not. Friendly competition is fine, but Hostile competition is unhealthy. Forced or provoked, secession of ones self defined titles, recognized by a few or many individuals causes too much infighting, bad blood, and generally unnecessary hostilities. While i don't believe anyone in the collective guilds truly hates or slanders anyone in any other guild, the proposal in question may lead to this unnecessary outcome. Titles, self proclaimed or not, have meaning to people. Asking them to set it aside can be seen as a direct attack on one's person.

 

While I commend the intent of this idea, I cannot in good faith call anything happening after the initial run as legitimate, with, or without bugs. Given other MMO's histories with similiar style bugs and "unpolished" content, this is no different.

 

If the attempt is to marshal some internal competition amoungst those of us you indicated to participate, I would suggest contacting the respective participants you had in mind and setting up some sort of private, and in good fun, content, between the guild leaders of said groups, out of the eyes and ears of both our respective communities, as well as the general community to avoid hostilities. It sounds like fun. Given we have 3 AND more powerhouses present on our server, some fun wargames and healthy competition should exist between us. There is no reason we cannot do so in a more private setting, and have fun in doing so.

 

After all my friends, this is just a game. We are all here to have fun, and it is what you make of it.

 

BTW, for those of you whose eye's glossed over the first paragrah, there is no TL;DR, My spelling is atrocious, grammer is defunct, and punctuation on par with someone who uses notepad to write his responses to avoid timeouts. Oh, wait, I did it again.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Again I'll refer to the fact that in previous games I've raided in (ie WoW) kills always counted pre or post nerf/buff when it came to progression and competition.

 

Also, I have yet to see any actual formal communication from the developers on this. Whether it's a bug or intentional is really pretty irrelevant to me one way or the other. If they change it, great! If not, great! We'll continue to beat it or try to beat it in whatever form it presents itself.

 

Finally, just to review, we're talking about making a boss that's already over tuned (in my opinion) even harder. Personally, I like challenge, but even I'm willing to go far enough to say that I think the last phase of this boss is rather stupid.

Edited by DarkhorseForLife
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Nezra brings up some good points actually, I guess there's no real level playing field even if the boss hasn't been as hard as it was intended, but I would like to assure everyone that we aren't by any means trying to hold ourselves above any other players. If I gave this impression through my choice of words, let me state that the use of the word "legitimate" was simply a repeating of the way the issue was described to me by a developer. Everything aside though, it will be fun to see the encounter as it was originally intended and I wish everyone luck on it and future bosses =]
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Premonition - The Harbinger - Republic

 

I don't have time stamps of two of these kills however you can look at the SWTOR official forums and see the actual date I posted these kills with these same screenshots. I've provided the links.

 

16HM - The Writhing Horror - Killed Sept 28, 2012 02:46:00 GMT

http://www.premogaming.com/media/SS/WrithingHorror16HM09272012.jpg

post about kill:

http://www.swtor.com/community/showthread.php?t=537578&page=2

 

16HM - The Dread Guard - Killed Oct 1, 2012 03:29:58 GMT

http://www.premogaming.com/media/SS/DreadGuard16HM9302012.jpg

post about kill:

http://www.swtor.com/community/showthread.php?t=537578&page=6

 

16HM - Operator Ix - Killed Oct 2, 2012 06:01:00 GMT

http://www.premogaming.com/media/SS/OpIx16HM10012012Codex.jpg

http://www.premogaming.com/media/SS/OpIx16HM10012012.jpg

post about kill:

http://www.swtor.com/community/showthread.php?t=539571

Edited by Quinnie
Link to comment
Share on other sites

As an aside, DnT did get kephess this week on 16man but whoever has the screenshot (I'm thinking either Voodude or Enkay) hasn't posted it yet :(

 

Nobody showing up on raid nights sucks for progression >< hopefully we will have enough people to get more TFB attempts tonight :)

Link to comment
Share on other sites


×
×
  • Create New...