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Not having level 50 ops in group finder makes no sense for casual players


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Greetings all,

 

I am what most would consider a casual player. I have a busy job where I often work nights and an 18 month old at home. Even when I am off for a week I may only get two hours to play. When I do get on, I have to try and maximize my experience, because that may be my only chance to do ops or flashpoints for that week. Before someone makes the recommendation, my toons are in guilds, one is very active with four raid groups rotating through the week, but its not fair for me to sign up for a raid group when my schedule is so unpredictable.

 

With that out of the way, I am wondering why you cannot select L50 operations, like Eternity Vault, Karraga's Palace, and Explosive Conflict, from within group finder as a level 55 character. I've done Eternity Vault a grand total of two times and KP once. I'd love to be able to do these operations for the story, the experience of the fights, the achievements, and, to some extent, the loot. I realize that gear-wise, many of the drops from those operations are obsolete. But, there are other loot drops besides the gear (crafting materials, vehicles, pets) and to the extent I am a collector/completionist there is some satisfaction in getting all the tiers of gear. While I may not like the look of the Black Hole and Dread Guard consular gear, someone else might. Specifically regarding the achievements, while end-game raiders in full Hazmat/Dread Guard gear probably had their fill of NiM EV, the achievement for doing it in under 2 hours didn't come until achievements launched with 2.0, thus there would still be a subset of level 55 geared end game raiders who would have a desire to do these operations.

 

Are these operations excluded from Group Finder for specific reasons? For example:

1. Would queue times be unacceptably long if those operations were included? I cannot see how this would be the case, because end-game high level raiders would not have to check those boxes if they weren't interested. Now, It might be the case for the person queuing for L50 ops that they would have an long wait, but at least they have the option to queue, even if it is long. Having the option to queue means a casual player like myself can work on, at the very least, the multitude of dailies while I wait for a group to pop, rather than spamming on the fleet, "L55 sage LFG level 50 ops!" which completely incapacitates me for anything other than crafting low level gear to toss on the GTN.

2. Are the designers trying to make sure people don't waste their time obtaining gear that is already obsolete? Its true that the black hole gear from Story Mode Eternity Vault is pretty substandard compared to even the artifact L55 gear you purchase with basic comms, and may not even be adequate for L55 hard mode flashpoints. But, if you don't need that gear you don't have to click on that check box in the group finder UI. For collectors and completionists and achievement-seekers, they can opt to queue up. Furthermore, the devs have made the effort to construct a weekly mission awarding elite and ultimate comms for doing the so-called classic operations. Why not facilitate doing those by including the option to queue for them in GF? A hard core raider might not require the extra 12 ultimate commendations from yet another weekly for an operation they could do asleep, but a casual player like myself needs every single comm he or she can get.

3. Are the designers worried the UI for group finder would be too cluttered? Well, IMO its pretty self-explanatory, and if a player can't figure out the group finder UI they shouldn't be doing operations or even flashpoints anyway. But there are easy ways to prioritize the internal unseen list of things you can queue for in the UI so that the most "important" things, like L55 ops and L55 HM FPs, show up on the top of the list.

 

Those are the reasons I could think of, from a design perspective, that would keep the devs from putting L50 ops on a level 55 toon's group finder window. I have offered counter arguments to all of them. With that, I respectfully request that the developers add the option, for level 55 characters, to queue for story/hard/nightmare mode classic (L50) operations (eternity vault, karraga's palace, explosive conflict). I welcome comments, especially from yellow names. Thank you for reading.

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I don't think the level 50 Ops will be used very often in group finder, but I don't see how it can possibly hurt. You're allowed to queue for level 50 flashpoints as a level 55, and that seems pretty useless too but having the option doesn't harm anyone.
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Not having level 50 ops in group finder makes perfect sense for casual players.

Those players can enter those operations easily enough without group finder.

 

How does entering the operation have anything to do with getting a group for it? Your "logic" would imply there's no point in having a level 50 HM group finder, or indeed any group finder, because "players can enter those" "easily enough without group finder".

 

As long as the rewards are only the same Classic or Basic comms that the level 50-54 players get (i.e. the Ultimate comms reward for the Classic Operations weekly still requires hard mode), there doesn't appear to be any reason why the option should magically vanish from Group Finder the second people hit level 55.

Edited by Ancaglon
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You can easily form groups without group finder.

 

1. What is "easy" for one person can be difficult for someone else. Yes, if you have a lot of time to kill it is easy to spam the general chat looking for a group. If you only have a couple hours to dedicate, though, you need all that time for a raid, not spamming the chat hoping to get enough people together. A groupfinder queue could help in cutting down the time (unlikely since GF is usually long as is but it at least provides another option).

 

2. Part of the argument for a GF queue is to stop the endless spam of "LFG blah blah 8m SM" in general chat. I can hardly say anything on the republic fleet without it getting bounced up because of people looking for groups.

 

I am certainly all for adding Lvl 50 operations to the queue. I have cleared TFB several times and SnV a couple and have yet to do Karagga's Palace or Explosive Conflict at all simply because I don't want to spam general to find a group. I would prefer to do other things as I sit in GF queue, rather then waste time copying and pasting the same message. I don't think it would help people find groups faster, necessarily, but it would make the process simpler and allow people to enjoy other aspects of the game while waiting.

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1. What is "easy" for one person can be difficult for someone else. Yes, if you have a lot of time to kill it is easy to spam the general chat looking for a group. If you only have a couple hours to dedicate, though, you need all that time for a raid, not spamming the chat hoping to get enough people together. A groupfinder queue could help in cutting down the time (unlikely since GF is usually long as is but it at least provides another option).

 

2. Part of the argument for a GF queue is to stop the endless spam of "LFG blah blah 8m SM" in general chat. I can hardly say anything on the republic fleet without it getting bounced up because of people looking for groups.

 

I am certainly all for adding Lvl 50 operations to the queue. I have cleared TFB several times and SnV a couple and have yet to do Karagga's Palace or Explosive Conflict at all simply because I don't want to spam general to find a group. I would prefer to do other things as I sit in GF queue, rather then waste time copying and pasting the same message. I don't think it would help people find groups faster, necessarily, but it would make the process simpler and allow people to enjoy other aspects of the game while waiting.

 

I do agree with you. The need to add them in GF. I have formed groups before for ops and its very time consuming, and not a fun process. Classic Ops are so easy, I do not see why do not they add them to GF (SM and HM).

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The advantage of group finder is that you can actually do something else while waiting besides spamming in fleet. For example I do GSI dailys which take a pretty long time while I'm queueing up for a raid. The queue might never pop but it's quite painless to join queue and just go grind until you get bored.
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Considering that both 50's and 55's still have reasons to run them, I don't see why they aren't on group finder. Is it easy to find groups manually? Usually, yes, but it would just be a bit more convenient to be able to queue. Sometimes we have 6 people and have trouble with the last two, there might be 2 people off on another planet that would love to go.
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I do not think it is fair to allow level 55 players to come to level 50 operations and abuse lower level players for not being 'geared' properly. Also level 50 players take and should take precedence when matching in a group, not allowing level 55 to join match making process is an easy solution, albeit cheap one. I think these operations should be made available for level 55 players with increased difficulty appropriate to their level,
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I do not think it is fair to allow level 55 players to come to level 50 operations and abuse lower level players for not being 'geared' properly. Also level 50 players take and should take precedence when matching in a group, not allowing level 55 to join match making process is an easy solution, albeit cheap one. I think these operations should be made available for level 55 players with increased difficulty appropriate to their level,

 

I'm not sure the types of 55's who would be "abusing" level 50's would be the one's playing lvl 50 ops. The elitest players who often abuse under-geared players are likely already overgeared for lvl 50 ops as is and won't waste their time with them. The focus of the argument to put these ops in GF is to allow players who don't have as much time to play the game experience the storyline of the level 50 ops.

 

As a first time MMO player, I did not even know what an op was until I hit level 55. By that time, though, I was already locked out of GF for all ops except TFB and SnV. To this day, I've played EV once on HM and had a fantastic time with the story, but it took a LONG time to get a group together. I see where you are coming from, but even if these ops were added to GF most of the players you're worried about will consider themselves "too good" to queue up for a lvl 50 SM op.

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How can people be this helpless?

You can easily form groups without group finder.

 

This logic is flawed if only for the simple reason that prior to ANY Group finder button at all "You could easily find groups without Group Finder" So by this logic it is then that one can assume we have ZERO reason for Group finder to be in the game for ANYTHING AT ALL.

 

People can find groups easy enough after all

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I'm not sure the types of 55's who would be "abusing" level 50's would be the one's playing lvl 50 ops. The elitest players who often abuse under-geared players are likely already overgeared for lvl 50 ops as is and won't waste their time with them. The focus of the argument to put these ops in GF is to allow players who don't have as much time to play the game experience the storyline of the level 50 ops.

 

I would tend to agree. As I alluded in my OP, the dread guard-geared-and above 55s doing classic ops are probably after vehicles/pets/crafting materials/achievements. Its also possible they are doing the op to help their friends or guildmates who are undergeared, but in that situation they may not be in GF anyway.

 

I think the risk that a person might get grouped with one or more "griefers" who specifically entered the GF queue to harass undergeared players is significantly lower than the benefits it offers to casual players.

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I would tend to agree. As I alluded in my OP, the dread guard-geared-and above 55s doing classic ops are probably after vehicles/pets/crafting materials/achievements

 

I think the main reason for level 55's doing them (the only reason I do them, at least) is for the Ultimate coms for the Classic Operations weekly. We normally run them in guild, but sometimes I have to pug it.

 

I also run 50 HM FP's pretty often, as it's an easy source of Basic coms.

 

I do think that the 50 ops should be in GF, if for no other reason than to let players go do dailies and whatnot instead of sitting on the fleet for a half hour trying to get a group.

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I'm saying this since 2.0 It's ironic that after the update, we have less end game stuff than we had before update. 2 ops vs. 4 ops, 4 HM FP vs... not sure how many lvl 50 HM there is.

 

They should add old lvl 50 operations HM into GF for lvl 55 people.

Edited by zzoorrzz
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*signed*

 

group finder should basically include ALL available content, it means additional options for players and could attract players to an MMO who don't have the time to organize in a guild or accumulate a friends list :-)

 

And it's the decisive point that you can actually play the game while queued in GF rather than picking your nose on the fleet!

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I think the main reason for level 55's doing them (the only reason I do them, at least) is for the Ultimate coms for the Classic Operations weekly.
I also think this. Playing EC HC is a fast and easy way to get some ultimate coms.

 

It would be nice if all OPs would also be accessible by the GF. Of course a group can also be gathered with chat requests but the GF would make it easier.

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I agree. This is my first MMO and as I normally play single player RPG games I spent a lot of time spamming xp boosts, so hit lvl 55 before I finished my character's storyline let alone started looking at operations. It is frustrating not to be able to use the group finder to easily access the end game content. And I agree that for casual players it takes a frustratingly long amount of time to group up via chat.

 

I can understand that some players might be worried about over-geared lvl 55 players coming into a lvl 50 operation and moaning at people for having rubbish gear, but I think that would be a minor problem.

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Why isn't this fixed yet? I really have NOT been able to do any SM ops since 2.0. My inquisitor is basically stuck. Can't run Level 55 fps cuz my armour isnt high enuff and the only way to gear at the moment is to grind daily planets (which I hate so not an option) and running the 1 fp a day for basic comms. Why why why can't i run level 50 ops exclusively at level 55 to gear up? all my endgame is totally dead. Gutted and they seem to be adament this isn't going to be fixed. Can the devs at least explain why?? what harm is there??? I unsubbed last month and won't even play after this month if level 55s cant run 50 ops in gf cuz endgame is BOOOOORING without them.
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I agree snip.

 

I can understand that some players might be worried about over-geared lvl 55 players coming into a lvl 50 operation and moaning at people for having rubbish gear, but I think that would be a minor problem.

 

If there are level 55's running with 50's in an old ops the only time rubbish gear is an issue is when the level 55 stands in stuff and is stupid because if there are level 55's in the ops with 50's what happens is ROLFSTOMP and things generally just die faster. I mean ****, my guild carried a level 50 in greens through tfb story and that wasnt even overly difficult

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