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Thankfully, a nail in the coffin of the EU


LordPorkins

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Although if they do follow EU, they'll gain that audience and get the potential praise and approval of the fans. I'm hoping they see it this way, at least. I would expect they'd have someone like Leland Chee giving advice during the writing of the movie, and he's well aware of the EU events.

 

The audience of the EU is really really small compared to the whole Star Wars audience. Like less then 1%.

 

The Thrawn trilogy is a great book probably the best of the whole EU BUT it would make a horrible movie. It's not very cinimatic, a lot happens in it, and there is way too many scenes where they are just talking to get across major plot points.

 

If they made it into the movie it would either be really boring or leave out a LOT of stuff.

 

It would be better for a HBO series.

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Not so much a nail in the coffin, but a kick to the side.

 

The current "established" (I use established as loosely as I can) post ROTJ cannon is just not a matter of cannon anymore. It is now just a different set of stories. Like how in Marvel you have the Age of Apocalypse timeline, and the Days of the Futures Past timeline, and The Ultimate universe. It doesn't remove those books from existence, it just makes them their own "timeline".

 

I agree, from what I know of the post-ROTJ EU - it seems a bit of a mess. There must be hundreds and hundreds of stories from hundreds of different writers all trying to get a slice of the Star Wars universe. Of course some are better than others, e.g. The Thrawn Trilogy, but some of this stuff needs to be swept aside so writers have a cleaner slate to work from.

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I'm hopeful/expecting at least some easter eggs. They could certainly show Thrawn in the background or give him a line or two reporting to someone. Other characters we'd want to see more screen time like Mara Jade and I'm not sure that will happen which is a bummer cause there's certainly lot's of potential there.

 

I was under the impression it was more likely going to be set during Luke being succeeded by the next generation. But it would be good to see some of the other characters.

 

The audience of the EU is really really small compared to the whole Star Wars audience. Like less then 1%.

 

True, and most of the EU audience will end up watching the movie, no matter what they have against it.

 

The Thrawn trilogy is a great book probably the best of the whole EU BUT it would make a horrible movie. It's not very cinimatic, a lot happens in it, and there is way too many scenes where they are just talking to get across major plot points.

 

This I disagree with, although Thrawn was probably one of the greatest and most original antagonists in the Star Wars universe. The rest I agree with.

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Whats that supposed to mean big guy?

 

Im not allowed to be passionate about something?

 

I think you and others like you will find you are in the minority when it comes to star wars fandom.

 

I think it's pretty clear what it is supposed to mean. I could spell it out for you if need be. The things you typed were a bit north of passionate. You are the very reason why mentioning that you really like Star Wars is usually met with dismissal and eye-rolls.

 

Also no, most fans of Star Wars are like me. Rational. Passionate is one thing. Needing Klonopin because of it is another.

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nah its not, he will never base his movie on something that was written by some random author, the true canon are the movies. You can choose to believe that rest is also canon but thats your choice. Fact is the new movies wont be based at all on the EU, and i even doubt there will be any mentions.

 

Actually it is. And since George is no longer in control, there will be a major split in Canon if or when they write a "retcon" story in movie form. It WILL become a true alternate universe. Leland Chee was tasked with making everything fit into the Canon system as much as possible. He's done a great job of it, so far. With the Disney takeover, I can see the OT, PT, and ExU becoming one universe, with the new movies becoming the true alternate universe. Remember that G-Canon is George Canon. Everything HE puts on paper or in a movie story-wise. With George no longer in control, G-Canon is only what's already done. He isn't writing the new movie. He's not directing or producing it. He will get a "Created By" credit, but that's about it. Chee will probably give the new Episodes a D-Canon rating. Disney Canon. Which won't override C-Canon, but will coexist in its own alternate reality,

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Actually it is. And since George is no longer in control, there will be a major split in Canon if or when they write a "retcon" story in movie form. It WILL become a true alternate universe. Leland Chee was tasked with making everything fit into the Canon system as much as possible. He's done a great job of it, so far. With the Disney takeover, I can see the OT, PT, and ExU becoming one universe, with the new movies becoming the true alternate universe. Remember that G-Canon is George Canon. Everything HE puts on paper or in a movie story-wise. With George no longer in control, G-Canon is only what's already done. He isn't writing the new movie. He's not directing or producing it. He will get a "Created By" credit, but that's about it. Chee will probably give the new Episodes a D-Canon rating. Disney Canon. Which won't override C-Canon, but will coexist in its own alternate reality,

 

^This. Please this. It would make everyone happy. We all get new Star Wars movies, but EU fans get to keep the EU.

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I think a lot of the issue of the Post-ROTJ EU being the mess it is has to do with the fact that a good portion of it was written before the PT and the massive contradictions that were floating around in the EU don't work with that was established in the movies. Even Timothy Zahn in the Heir to the Empire 20th anniversary said that he wanted to go back and tweak his trilogy to better match the plans Lucas had done in the movies to better fit into the EU.
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John's kinda aging so he wouldn't be able to do all of the stuff Kyle does. Maybe Chuck can be the stunt double.

 

But, yeah, without John William's music Star Wars won't be the same. I would love to see what he can do with this new trilogy. That's gonna be the main reason I see the new movies.

 

Thats a point, do you think there gonna recycle the old stuff, or make new music? (Can't really remember if they made new music for prequels - think they did) New music would be cool.

 

And apologies for the stream of messages, it was pg 3 last time I checked.

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Honestly I have this problem with both the current post-rotj eu literature, and the proposed episodes VII-IX. It boils down to dilution. I love the classic trilogy with a firey burning passion, and I can accept the prequels as flawed as they are. However continuation into further dramatic galactic engulfing conflicts diminishes the emotional resolution I felt at the conclusion of VI. The prophecy had come full circle, Anakin Skywalker redeemed himself and finally destroyed the Sith, freedom was restored to the galaxy, Luke, Leia, Han et al lived happily ever after.....

 

Only they didn't in the EU: Emperor Palpatine flanged himself a ressurection, turned Luke to the darkside only to be redeemed by Leia at the eleventh hour in what was merely an inferior recycling of the whole story of his father. Someone goes on to invent the anti Jedi species with the yuuzhan vong, more wars, more death and more suffering. Han & Leia's kids aren't even spared it going on to fight suffer, fall and the whole Skywalker legacy go on to suffer yet more tragedy as they set about killing each other. Peace and resolution is never reached, It all just goes on and on ad nauseum. All the while just chipping away at that nice, cheerful and hopeful resolution we all got way back in 1983.

 

Now as damning as that all is I'm not against the EU. Star Wars is massively popular I get that, and when something is as massively popular someone is always going to want to sell you more of it. In addition there are some real gems in the EU body of books, shows and videogames. Heavens I wouldn't be here posting on an online game forum set in that universe if I didn't get a kick out of some elements. Doubtless some people disagree with me, and loved the Dark Empire comics or the yuuzhan vong invastion story arcs, and if you did more power to you. My above thoughts are nothing more than an opinion piece.

 

What gets me most is how divisive all this gets. People debate for hours and hours on points of continuity figuratively bashing themselves over the head over who knows more than who, as if it somehow proves who is the better star wars fan. Do you know what gets lost in all of this? The spirit of Star Wars, if they take the new episodes in a different direction so be it, and if that flies in the face of EU canon, that doesn't matter. If any of these stories have fired your imagination, then they have done thier job, and nobody can take that away from you. I'll watch these new films, hoping that they will fan that spark that they did when I was a kid, and perhaps more importantly ignite that spark in a whole new generation with tales of love, adventure and good vs evil. If they manage to do that I will be satisfied.

 

Star Wars may have "belonged" to George Lucas, and now to Disney. However the stories are ours, they belong to humanity. They are now a part of our collective unconscious and alway will be, and no one can own that. People talk a lot of continuity, but interestingly the emotional component is often alluded to, but never addressed. That lovely resolution of a story well told way back in RotJ, and the incredibly important emotional dimension it held for me has never been dampened, if something came along that "contradicted" that feeling it simply failed to resonate, and never joined the constellation of bright stars that burned in my mind of stories that I cherish. This has nothing to do with "facts" about the Star Wars universe or anything as pedestrian as "canon". I hope in time more people come to realize this, and allow Star Wars to inspire.

^^This - I agree with you completely.

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Thats a point, do you think there gonna recycle the old stuff, or make new music? (Can't really remember if they made new music for prequels - think they did) New music would be cool.

 

And apologies for the stream of messages, it was pg 3 last time I checked.

 

They really should make new music. Maybe use a few of the older pieces. Pieces that are in pretty much every movie should continue to do so. John had to start from scratch for the Prequels, creating new music for the characters, plot points, and planets. So he shouldn't have too much trouble making new music for the new movies.

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Thats a point, do you think there gonna recycle the old stuff, or make new music? (Can't really remember if they made new music for prequels - think they did) New music would be cool.

 

And apologies for the stream of messages, it was pg 3 last time I checked.

 

The soundtrack from the prequel trilogy was the best part about it. We got Duel of the Fates out of it!

 

Come on now

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They really should make new music. Maybe use a few of the older pieces. Pieces that are in pretty much every movie should continue to do so. John had to start from scratch for the Prequels, creating new music for the characters, plot points, and planets. So he shouldn't have too much trouble making new music for the new movies.

I do hope so, the music he makes is amazing - I look forward to a whole new world to fall in love with all over again.

 

The soundtrack from the prequel trilogy was the best part about it. We got Duel of the Fates out of it!

 

Come on now

Oh yes of course, its all coming back now. dah daaaaaah dah dah dah, daah daaaaaaah dah dah dah :D love that one

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Comics are a little different though. Those have been going on for so long, there are multiple realities, villains die and then are brought back anyway, the heroes change constantly, etc. When they make a movie about it they can be viewed as just another story line within the comic universe. Just look at Spider-Man. How many different versions of Spider-man comics are there? 5? 6?
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Comics are a little different though. Those have been going on for so long, there are multiple realities, villains die and then are brought back anyway, the heroes change constantly, etc. When they make a movie about it they can be viewed as just another story line within the comic universe. Just look at Spider-Man. How many different versions of Spider-man comics are there? 5? 6?

 

SW EU is mostly straight, no parallel universe.

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Comics are a little different though. Those have been going on for so long, there are multiple realities, villains die and then are brought back anyway, the heroes change constantly, etc. When they make a movie about it they can be viewed as just another story line within the comic universe. Just look at Spider-Man. How many different versions of Spider-man comics are there? 5? 6?

You have a point there, star wars is set in stone. Marvel is just a universe to play with.

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SW EU is mostly straight, no parallel universe.

 

Actually, the ExU is mostly considered a parallel universe that sticks to the films as much as possible. I call it an overlapping universe, since George has used ExU material in the movies. Episodes I - VI are their own self-contained Universe. The George or G-Canon universe. Then there is the Films + Expanded Universe reality that most of us know. It takes George's story and expands on it both prior to and after the movies themselves. With the new Episode VII, IF it is in fact an original story that would retcon the majority of the post-RotJ ExU, it would fall into a different category. G-Canon is done, as far as the movies go. Since George is not going to have his name on VII except on the "Star Wars Created by George Lucas" credit, it won't actually BE G-Canon. I'm calling the new Disney franchise D-Canon for now, and IF the rumors are true and it differs from everything post-RotJ, it would cause an all new Universe. Right now, we have the OT/PT/ExU. WIth the new movies, we'll have the OT/PT/Disney Universe as well. It's a compromise, but it's the most likely option to keep the ExU fans from going completely ballistic.

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You have a point there, star wars is set in stone. Marvel is just a universe to play with.

 

Only Episodes I - VI are set in stone. Everything else is.... maleable, for lack of a better term. The different levels of Canon are in place for a reason. G-Canon is the only Absolute. T and C are there to show that it was approved by Lucas, fits with the general plot of the movies, and doesn't stray too far from the spirit of Star Wars. S, and N are there to deal with discrepancies. For example, the account of the Clone Wars given in The Thrawn Trilogy was wrong, and was relegated to S-Canon as a false rumor of what really happened. Since it could be viewed that the Clones went "insane" when Order 66 was given, it had just enough credibility to stick around as an S-Canon rumor. Leland Chee has the unenviable task of making all the pieces fit as much as possible. It's hard when the puzzle keeps changing shape.

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Considering how much space and empty time there is to play with in the Star Wars universe, the only way the EU would even be effected is if episodes VII-IX directly contradict what happens there. If they simply choose to tell a story from the EU, or better yet, create a new story that doesn't contradict the EU, then nothing changes. I don't see why people are making baseless assumptions about the status of the canon when we don't even know anything about the story yet. There's a very real possibility that Disney will choose to cover some EU event (like fighting the warlords post ROTJ, or the formation of the New Republic) from a perspective we've never seen before, therefore making an "original" story.
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Considering how much space and empty time there is to play with in the Star Wars universe, the only way the EU would even be effected is if episodes VII-IX directly contradict what happens there. If they simply choose to tell a story from the EU, or better yet, create a new story that doesn't contradict the EU, then nothing changes. I don't see why people are making baseless assumptions about the status of the canon when we don't even know anything about the story yet. There's a very real possibility that Disney will choose to cover some EU event (like fighting the warlords post ROTJ, or the formation of the New Republic) from a perspective we've never seen before, therefore making an "original" story.

 

That's what the rumors are saying already. The press release from Disney that says "Forget everything you knew about Luke, Leia, and Han as far as what happens to them after RotJ". I'm honestly hoping that's just hype and they think better of it. But if it's true, and Disney doesn't handle it right, it WILL piss off a lot of fans. Leland Chee, hopefully, is all over this already.

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Considering how much space and empty time there is to play with in the Star Wars universe, the only way the EU would even be effected is if episodes VII-IX directly contradict what happens there. If they simply choose to tell a story from the EU, or better yet, create a new story that doesn't contradict the EU, then nothing changes. I don't see why people are making baseless assumptions about the status of the canon when we don't even know anything about the story yet. There's a very real possibility that Disney will choose to cover some EU event (like fighting the warlords post ROTJ, or the formation of the New Republic) from a perspective we've never seen before, therefore making an "original" story.

 

Sure this is true, but it can't help but having an effect on the EU, it will create 'ripples' if you like which will affect exisiting EU in some way or another, but I agree - sending a bulldozer through the EU is avoidable, but it is difficult.

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