Kinda like Palpatine. Or Luke Han and Leia.

Perhaps the thread knows essence transfer?

Perhaps the thread knows essence transfer?

lol. Or maybe the creator of this thread used a dark ritual to keep it alive. Either way, this discussion will slow down and eventually die. Like Palpatine:D

While not all Sith start out on the road to evil, they often end up there. They gradually compromise their principles as the gain more and more power, they rationalize heinous acts as being okay for various reasons, etc.

Jedi have their issue with the love thing, while yeah families can be a vulnerability, however they can also be a source of strength, but I digress.

I generally think of the Sith as evil because they are out to gain power over other people just for the sake of it, simply because they can. I think there is the pure essense of why the Sith are evil.

perhaps the thread knows essence transfer?

it's secretly darth bane!

Enforcing the natural selection as and among intelectual beings (humans) is deconstructive. Wasting others for own benefits is the purest definition of 'evil'. Sith are materialists. While Jedis are spiritualists. Like in real life. The first is illusioniary while the second is devoting to the true form of eternal reality.

Bad analogy, I don't think Sith can be considered capitalists. The Sith aren't exactly materialistic either, they are more out for power for the sake of it. Capitalism involves benefitting yourself, but let's get real, capitalism has some set ground rules that Sith would never honor, among which includes the idea that a contract is a contract, is a contract. Sith find it perfectly okay not to honor a contract in letter or spirit, where-as a Capitalist would want to honor said contract (provided it doesn't involve something that is illegal).

I don't think the Jedi cared that much for Capitalism, but the Sith probably cared for it even less.

This might sound a tad silly but I feel the need to get it out.

While Star Wars does have a rather detailed EU I find it very easy to pick and choose what I accept.

Since it is a work of fiction and not fact I don't feel like I've lost anything by doing so.

What that boils down to is that I won't let whatever the official view is on something get in the way of my enjoyment of it.

lol. Or maybe the creator of this thread used a dark ritual to keep it alive. Either way, this discussion will slow down and eventually die. Like Palpatine:D

This thread will never die!

I will make sure of it!

it's secretly darth bane!

I'm not bald...

I'm not bald...

I think he meant the thread being like Bane.

It stuns me that the Jedi are seen as a force of good. In any other setting than the Star Wars Universe, a monastic cult that preached the absence of feelings would not be seen as a force of good. Maybe seen as a bunch of eccentric Buddhists, but certainly no shining beacon of goodness.

And a society that preached passion would certainly not be seen as a force of evil (one of the saddest things about Star Wars is how the writers seem to think being passionate means you're a mass murderer).

If we subscribed to the Jedi way of thinking in our real world, musicians, artists, pretty much anyone who's ever done something to evoke emotion out of you, would be evil. How sick is that?

It stuns me that the Jedi are seen as a force of good. In any other setting than the Star Wars Universe, a monastic cult that preached the absence of feelings would not be seen as a force of good. Maybe seen as a bunch of eccentric Buddhists, but certainly no shining beacon of goodness.

 

And a society that preached passion would certainly not be seen as a force of evil (one of the saddest things about Star Wars is how the writers seem to think being passionate means you're a mass murderer).

 

If we subscribed to the Jedi way of thinking in our real world, musicians, artists, pretty much anyone who's ever done something to evoke emotion out of you, would be evil. How sick is that?

But there is a flaw in your argument.

The Sith ARE mass murderers.

I am starting to think that the Sith might be evil...

It stuns me that the Jedi are seen as a force of good. In any other setting than the Star Wars Universe, a monastic cult that preached the absence of feelings would not be seen as a force of good. Maybe seen as a bunch of eccentric Buddhists, but certainly no shining beacon of goodness.

 

And a society that preached passion would certainly not be seen as a force of evil (one of the saddest things about Star Wars is how the writers seem to think being passionate means you're a mass murderer).

 

If we subscribed to the Jedi way of thinking in our real world, musicians, artists, pretty much anyone who's ever done something to evoke emotion out of you, would be evil. How sick is that?

The Jedi code doesn't promote the absence of emotion it promotes the control of emotions so to not make rash decisions. Making decisions based on passion or negative emotions promotes a negative reaction sometimes, at least based on goals. There is a fine line between being passionate about something and being irrational. Your interpretations are off.

Hitler was passionate about his goals, as was his riech. His goals were evil, much like the Sith.

The Jedi code doesn't promote the absence of emotion it promotes the control of emotions so to not make rash decisions. Making decisions based on passion or negative emotions promotes a negative reaction sometimes, at least based on goals. There is a fine line between being passionate about something and being irrational. Your interpretations are off.

 

 

Hitler was passionate about his goals, as was his riech. His goals were evil, much like the Sith.

And, Beethoven was passionate about his music. I suppose he was evil as well. He certainly wouldn't have a place in the dystopic society the Jedi envision.

And sex? Can you even imagine having sex with someone who controlled their emotions? /laugh

And, Beethoven was passionate about his music. I suppose he was evil as well. He certainly wouldn't have a place in the dystopic society the Jedi envision.

 

And sex? Can you even imagine having sex with someone who controlled their emotions? /laugh

You've taken everything out of context. Sith motives are not only driven by passion but by anger, hatred and lust for power. They're passionate about dominance, control and destruction of the Jedi.

Being passionate about music, film or writing or other creative processes is different to being passionate about chaos and destruction.

Considering how many people have one night stands and can remain emotionally detached in this day and age I'd say that's fairly normal.

To add to the Sith principles: They teach through pain, suffering and emotional beatings. Surely being in a constant state of hatred and rage doesn't promote rational choices?

You've taken everything out of context. Sith motives are not only driven by passion but by anger, hatred and lust for power. They're passionate about dominance, control and destruction of the Jedi.

 

Being passionate about music, film or writing or other creative processes is different to being passionate about chaos and destruction.

 

Considering how many people have one night stands and can remain emotionally detached in this day and age I'd say that's fairly normal.

Peace is a lie, there is only passion; Through passion, I gain Strength; Through Strength, I gain Power; Through Power, I gain victory; Through victory, my chains are broken; The Force shall free me

There is nothing in that code that means being a Sith needs to be fueled by anger and hatred. Writers just don't seem capable of understanding that, and so we get these evil caricatures with their manic laughs and lust for torture and mayhem.

In fact, if the perceptions that have been ingrained into us over all these years didn't color our views, that Sith Code would work really well as a rallying cry for a generic hero/protagonist.

I suspect most people who have success in their lives are passionate. Perhaps even want to dominate. But, I'd hardly call them evil.

I chalk up us even having this probable circular discussion to writers who are incapable of writing about Sith who aren't psychotic mass murderers. To Bioware's credit, there are a few very minor Sith NPCs you'll meet in a few class-specific quests that show you can follow the Sith Code without being genocidal.

Your comment about one-night stands just illustrates my point. There's nothing inherently wrong with the Sith.

According to the Jedi, and most of the citizens.

Like I said before, evil and good is all based on perspective.

If you take a larger view of Palpatine, you will see that he brought stability and order to the Galaxy that the Republic couldn't even do.

...

Please tell me you aren't serious.

...

By Yoda's whiskers, you are serious...

"It is a matter of perspective" is a line used by those who know what they are doing is wrong (and yeah, that applied to Obiwan too) or those who are so blind that they can no longer see the truth. Period. Good and evil are not now, nor have they ever been, a matter of perspective.

You claim that the "larger view" of Palpatine brought stability and order?

Exactly how do you claim this?

Before Palpatine started messing with the Republic it was orderly and stable and had been for thousands of years. The problems at Naboo? That was Palpatine. The rise of things like the Trade Federation? Palpatine again. How about the ENTIRE CLONE WAR? Palpatine destroyed any semblance of stability or order.

He committed genocide on peaceful people. He destroyed entire worlds. He enslaved entire races. He caused a galactic rebellion against his tyranny. He destroyed the Republic/Imperial economy. He caused untold pain and suffering and he did nothing again nothing to bring the criminal elements in check, quite the opposite he worked with the criminal elements to grant them even more power and allowed them to spread their influence further.

There is nothing, I repeat nothing that Palpatine did that actually spread order or stability.

Peace is a lie, there is only passion; Through passion, I gain Strength; Through Strength, I gain Power; Through Power, I gain victory; Through victory, my chains are broken; The Force shall free me

 

There is nothing in that code that means being a Sith needs to be fueled by anger and hatred. Writers just don't seem capable of understanding that, and so we get these evil caricatures with their manic laughs and lust for torture and mayhem.

 

In fact, if the perceptions that have been ingrained into us over all these years didn't color our views, that Sith Code would work really well as a rallying cry for a generic hero/protagonist.

 

I suspect most people who have success in their lives are passionate. Perhaps even want to dominate. But, I'd hardly call them evil.

 

I chalk up us even having this probable circular discussion to writers who are incapable of writing about Sith who aren't psychotic mass murderers. To Bioware's credit, there are a few very minor Sith NPCs you'll meet in a few class-specific quests that show you can follow the Sith Code without being genocidal.

 

Your comment about one-night stands just illustrates my point. There's nothing inherently wrong with the Sith.

But here's the thing about the Sith though, they tend to view "My chains are broken" as "Everyone else is wearing them under my heel." Not all who follow their passions are evil, yes, but the Sith use them for evil goals. Grated their are probably Sith who don't, but that nuber is so insignificant compared to those who do that it can be generalized that the Sith Order as a whole is evil.

I wonder why people try and make sith out as something they are not. They are evil they are pretty much anti of the jedi the sith embrace death, destruction, anger and hatred. Being sith is about gaining power no matter what the cost is and the sith religion view the dark side as the stronger side. Do you know how you gain power in the dark side? By causing death, suffering and destruction like what palpatine did in the clone wars I mean read Walsh's post I bet the dark side was really enjoying the chaos and destruction of the clone wars.

The sith order is a DARK SIDE religion and as I said before the dark side feeds on destruction, suffering and hate and by doing these acts sith gain more power which is what being sith is about the sith view power as its on purpose.

 

"It is a matter of perspective" is a line used by those who know what they are doing is wrong (and yeah, that applied to Obiwan too) or those who are so blind that they can no longer see the truth. Period. Good and evil are not now, nor have they ever been, a matter of perspective.

 

You claim that the "larger view" of Palpatine brought stability and order?

 

Exactly how do you claim this?

 

Before Palpatine started messing with the Republic it was orderly and stable and had been for thousands of years. The problems at Naboo? That was Palpatine. The rise of things like the Trade Federation? Palpatine again. How about the ENTIRE CLONE WAR? Palpatine destroyed any semblance of stability or order.

 

He committed genocide on peaceful people. He destroyed entire worlds. He enslaved entire races. He caused a galactic rebellion against his tyranny. He destroyed the Republic/Imperial economy. He caused untold pain and suffering and he did nothing again nothing to bring the criminal elements in check, quite the opposite he worked with the criminal elements to grant them even more power and allowed them to spread their influence further.

 

There is nothing, I repeat nothing that Palpatine did that actually spread order or stability.

Actually Alderaan was quite more orderly after Palpatine. Now there is no more crime, disease, poverty, or life anywhere on it and it's now a quite orderly astroid field. Clearly, he was a true defender of the Republic and all it stood for.