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Sr. Hickman - The DEFINITIVE ISSUES Thread - Needs Attention


BlueDestiny

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Preamble: This thread is redrafted from another originated from a prior account, of 4 total accounts held in my household since cancelled, and am down to this last remaining account. I've updated it for the few items that have been fixed since it was originally posted in April, 2012, tightened it up, and added a prologue about what works well in TOR. Most of these fundamental issues have not been scratched.

 

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I – STORY, The 4TH PILLAR, IS STILL CRUMBLING

 

 

Other than Class story, the overall story is flat - there's only the protagonist and an endless stream of NPC strangers who give tasks; and the obligatory bonus to "kill 15-25 mobs". A story needs an ensemble cast, akin to the Leias, the Hans, the Chewies, to give it the depth and charm we're familiar with in Star Wars (or any real story) and Star Wars EU. An ensemble cast gives us story progression for the main characters, journeying with the avatar.

 

We could have that with our crew, our Companions, but they're so underutilized that even though the story sparks to life when they speak up, it’s so rare that it’s practically non-existent.

 

In TOR, we're innundated with NPC strangers in an endless string of assigning tasks and "do this and kill 15-50 bonus mobs".

 

STORY SUGGESTIONS --------------------------------------

  • Reallocate development time spent on quests talking with strangers to mission terminals, and use the extra development time to develop content where Companion’s chime in, or more Companion quests, or both. Bring on the ensemble cast.

 

 

  • A design goal that Companions chime in on significantly more general quests. Examples would be the avatar asking for the Companion’s opinion on a course of action, or the Companion just offering opinion, and suited to choices made thus far. If they’re starting to get unhappy with prior choices let it start to show, and vice versa.

 

 

  • Introduce characters in the stories that we see recurringly, and build character depth, such as a General, an intelligence leader, a squadron leader... characters that adds continuity beyond even the Companions.

 

 

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II - SURNAMES - BROKEN MMO EXPERIENCE

 

 

The surname/Legacy system has been broken on so many levels as an MMO experience. It’s so restricted by someone's sacred cows, it’s a constant thorn to players for fundamentals they expect and enjoy in an MMO; rooted in flexibility suitable to a broad player base.

 

Family Names

Fixed - I play with family, we have (had) 4 accounts in our household. We discovered we can't take the same surname as a family unit.

 

Names Across Accounts

Fixed - I have a RP theme (brothers) across accounts, I can't have the same last name. Refer to above rationale.

 

Unrelated Avatars

I have two avatars within the same faction, a Sith and a Bounty Hunter. They are not related, they have no relation to each other, and conduct themselves very differently. They do not come from the same worlds. Why are they required to have the same last name?

 

Names Across Races

I have two avatars. One is a Human, the other is a Twi’lek. Clearly they were born of different families, but under the existing system they must have the same surname ... why?

 

Surnames to Start

My name was given at birth. Yet I have to wait until level 32 to have my last name appear?

 

Canon Naming of Sith

Anakin Skywalker is neither Anakin Vader, Darth Skywalker, or the Skywalker Legacy. He was born Anakin Skywalker and became Darth Vader. Jacen Solo is neither Jacen Caedus, Darth Solo, or The Solo Legacy. The canon for sith naming is established. It's not hard at all to figure out; a birth name and surname, and a Sith name, for both my Sith avatars, yet the game doesn't function to canon. Why not?

 

SURNAME SUGGESTIONS --------------------------------------

 

  • 1. Remove all the Surname restrictions and let us name our character’s surnames the way players EACH WANT to name our own avatars, including same surnames across accounts and across family member’s accounts. Smith is not a unique name in our world, nor should Ok’lax be in SWTOR.

 

 

  • 2. Provide some Sith canon naming OPTIONS that suit player’s desires. i.e. if they want to take a Sith Name to accompany the accomplishment of Darth title, LET THEM have that option. If they choose to keep their name/surname the way it was before acquiring the Darth Title, LET THEM have that option. Key word for MMO = Flexibility, to suit broad preferences and styles.

 

 

  • 3. Grant surnames from the start, as an MMO fundamental. As adult avatars, we have names we obtained from birth, so give us our surnames from very early on, if not at start.

 

 

  • 4. Give us the ability to change our Surnames in-game, such as the vendors that reset AC points. This is terribly needed, especially when the system helps players make mistakes in their names, such as with the Capital Letter problem in the above, or frankly, just simply want to change up their approach and enjoyment.

 

 

  • 5. Allow any Sith avatar to aquire the Darth title, and Jedi the Master title. Restriction by class is not canon.

 

 

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III – BROKEN ELEMENTS THAT SIGNIFICANTLY ADD UP

 

 

  • Music for the game - is almost non-existent, with the occasional sudden blare of music to snap us out of the fog of grinding endless quests to do that and kill 15-50 bonus mobs. Upon that realization, I loaded up the CE TOR soudtrack CD and found it very simple, commercial, and uninspired - and honestly threw it away for having no value. There's a huge missed opportunity to create thematic music scores to set the tone of each world, for combat, exploration, and background.

 

 

  • Grouping / Group Finder - 65% fixed with group finder and updates. Good work. Missing option for Heroics within planets, and that if I've moved on to the next planet while leveling, can still find a group for the previous planet that's still at least Green in mission log, and be summoned. Need ability to be summoned to the steps of any Heroic. Most Importantly - regarding Group Finder, need the ability to manage that at least one member of the party to designate themselves as Group Leader (knowledgable to content) so that the party has someone who can lead the group and be assigned the Lead position, or otherwise select that we're open to an exploratory session (likely a disaster in a PUG scenario as currently without voice chat embedded in game for realistic chance of PUG success).

 

 

  • Travel - 80% Fixed. Good work. Still need option to port to Ship, and need to do away with orbital stations which are just a means to add cumbersome time between ship and planet. There is no reason for orbital station, they add no value.

 

 

  • Player Ships - 50% Fixed, love the mail, GTN, etc. options, thanks. They're still inconvenient to get to, need some port ability (like the instant transport on planets from point to point, "Shuttle has been dispatched," have the crew fly by and scoop us up). There may be a technical game performance issue (solve it) that makes us have to launch when we just wanted to hop on our ship for a minute, and didn't need to go through a launch and land cinematic sequence adding to the inconvenient delays and load screens. And oh, small thing (NOT) but why can't we name our ships?

 

 

  • Pace of leveling - is so slow ... Update: Calling this one fixed, have been alot of things to speed it up, from travel/shuttle options to group finders... Lack of real story depth (see Section I, above) doesn't help the feeling of being overly long, but big improvement in recent months.

 

 

  • Voice Chat for Pugs - other MMO's have it built in, so when we're in warzones, flashpoints, or heroics, we can actually speak to our fellow group members in PUGs. Groups without Voice chat, especially warzones, significantly - if not entirely - eliminates teamwork and diminishes TOR from its potential. Fundamental, yes?

 

 

  • Cosmetic Customization of Gear - provide mechanisms for color choices in multiple elements of a piece, such as main body, hems, collar/cuff. Short and sweet, that's all that needs to be said. Companions have been forgotten in gear customization.

 

 

  • Crafting and Related MMO Roles - I want to like the system, but I find that every time I try to engage it, it offers no satisfaction. There are no roles - no merchant, no reseller, no shopkeeper and decorator, no vendor management, no niche provider to specialize and build a reputation or go-to person that players come to know and rely upon, no manufacturing/factory engagement, no workshop or cooperative angles among players or guilds. It just has no depth as an MMO system, no social aspects, no way for us to engage a million dimensions that could exist and do not.

 

 

  • Chat Bubbles - traditional MMO fundamentals of communicating with other players is broken without chat bubbles. MMO common sense.

 

 

  • Sith corruption in non-Force using classes - needs to go quickly. Grandfather it in if you must for existing players who choose it, but the Zombie-Smugglers, and Walking Dead Troopers are just lame. It makes no sense. I don't like it for my Smuggler at all, and want it removed pretty quickly for anyone interacting with him. This really drives me nuts, and every time I see it, it makes me question the credibility of the development team.

 

 

  • UI Customization - Calling this one Fixed. Good work.

 

 

  • PvP Queue Systems - need to be balanced. There's a hundred ways to fix it, and I'm not here to tell you which one to do, but what matters is the outcome. If there's 8 Imperials and 6 Republics in the queue, start it with the first 6 from each side. Add players in evenly matched numbers, so it increases to 7, to 8, in matched sets. If someone drops (pretty rare) in the middle, fill the matching spot or if no players in the queue, it finishes unevely - so be it.

 

 

  • Datacrons - going to let this one go, but there remains an inequity between those with good hardware and poor hardware that makes datacron gymnastics exponentially harder for those on poor hardware (tested endlessly, fact), but in the end, it's good content as it is. So lesser of two evils. However, note that the Hoth Ancient Droid datacron that’s 5 levels above the world’s content needs to be level-appropriate – that’s the first and last time I had to leave a world with the datacron’s unfinished and that made for lousy gaming experience. I now have 6 end-game avatars and none have this Hoth datacron, not worth the trouble. That can't be the desired intent - it's just a dissatisfying thorn hanging out there that should be fixed.

 

 

 

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IV – COMPANION AFFECTION, AND DIALOGUE TRIGGERS

 

 

The system is way out of whack, and discovered I spent untold thousands on companion gift missions needlessly, and a broken game experience.

 

 

  • I spent tons on missions over many weeks for Companion Gifts to get Bowdar, Risha and Cordo up to 10,000 affection. After a certain time, in the 3,000-5,000 Affection range, it seemed that they had no more dialogues to be triggered. I kept leveling them to 10,000 as I read something about it improving crafting. I got each to 10,000, and no more dialogues/quests appeared on the way.
     
    Well, it turns out that they did have more dialogue/quest events, but they were delayed by some trigger related to either level or class quest achievement, because at a certain point after hitting level 43 and finishing Hoth, I suddenly was presented with one dialogue after another on these companions.
     
    These quests came in a steady stream on my ship, I'm guessing 20 or more, all stored up waiting for this trigger to make them accessible. I did the entire level 43 to 44 just on these Companion dialogues there were so many of them, and took some time to work through all of them.

 

This was a real bust. Affection points should have triggered the dialogues and nothing else. For Companion quests, let the quest's Level tell us that we're hung up on the pipeline pending reaching a certain level. Remove all other gates. To have them avalanche on me at the end after I was already 10,000 affection on each of them was a real tragedy. Update: I've now leveled 6 avatars to 50, and many, many companions. I'm astounded that this continues to play out on every class and companion.

 

 

 

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V - COMMUNITY EFFECTIVENESS – SWTOR FORUMS INADEQUATE

 

 

There remains a high consolidation of forum categories, so our feedback and discussion threads still get immediately buried under the pile 10 pages deep. Whether this forum, Customer Service, Flashpoints, or Crew Skills, as examples, it's the same. We can’t have a dialogue, and we have endless redundant posts on similar topics that are all single threads with one or two posts, instead of one or two threads with hundreds of posts in them – because in the trash pile of community feedback, we can not find logical threads that already exist absent a weak search tool.

 

This appears to tell us, your valued players and customers, that our feedback and discussions don't matter to you, and additionally tells us not to bother taking our time to start a discussion or participate when we know our threads and posts will continue to get immediately buried. We expect some of that piling on in any MMO boards in the maelstrom of General Discussion, but not the other Forum sections where we should be allowed to be more thoughtful, carry on a dialogue, and coalesce our contributions as a community.

 

You aggregate the forums overtly and don't have the appropriate breakout forums. As examples, there's no forum for Companions, a major element of gameplay. There's no forum for Gear and Items; whether speaking to loot behavior, datacrons, or gear issues. There's not even forums for general Missions/Questing, so if you don’t want the info on why a quest is suboptimal or broken, then why should I bother laying it out in a post only to see the thread buried in this mess of a forums – and a year later, there is still constant opportunity to document a thread about a particular Quest, or update one already started by someone else. They're not all bugs, sometimes the quest needs our feedback in other aspects. All of these are common to MMO Game forums, important areas of feedback, interest, and discussion.

 

There's also no separation of forums to distinguish support or feedback for the Website/Forums, versus Technical Support, versus other types of Account/Customer Support. Instead, all of these things are mashed into one forum called Customer Support in another landfill. This is really substandard and poor performance as customer service, community support, and community service.

 

COMMUNITY / FORUM EFFECTIVENESS SUGGESTIONS --------------------------------------

 

The following Forums should be created to remedy these issues creating the forum landfills:

 

  • Customer Service
    • Website/Forums Discussion
    • Technical Support
    • Account/Customer Support

 

  • Combat

  • Gear, Items, Loot

  • Companions

  • Space, Ships

  • Missions (Quests)

  • Game Servers
    • Server Name (Name Specific)
       
      • Recruitment
      • General Disscussion

  • Guild Features

  • UI Discussion

 

 

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VI – PLAYER GUILD SUPPORT – OCCUPY SWTOR

 

 

***** Update 2014 - Finally, a dev understands the importance of guild tools. Star Citizen has an entire team working on Organizations infrastructure that spans web, web tools, chat, voice, etc., very dynamic, that are integrated with ingame systems and tools. Finally! *****

 

Please vastly improve TOR satisfaction by addressing players' needs related to Guilds. You provided some functionality for guilds, and a summit for the 1%, the Guild leaders. However, Guild leaders are the very small minority who arguably contribute more dissatisfaction than satisfaction to impact 99% of your TOR players and their overall satisfaction with TOR. As an MMO, the effectiveness and satisfaction of the guild experience is often as impactful to players' enjoyment of TOR (any MMO) as is the design of the game's features and systems.

 

The Guild experience is a fundamental dimension of gameplay that, frankly, you leave to leadership amateurs ("amateurs" often being generous) to determine success, and you give players (leaders and players alike) zero support to influence more successful outcomes. Do you leave other core elements of gameplay to amateurs to drive success? Of course not. Then why this one? Bad business.

 

At least, as developers of a game you’d like to be enjoyed by the majority of players at large, you might look to the needs of the 99% - the players - rather than the Guild leaders. Or better yet, look to improve the success for both.

 

Consider the following:

 

  • It is very challenging to find a good guild, and a good guild fit. At best, Guilds do a dismal job of setting their shingles and expectations (if they can even clarify them) to give potential members the information needed to determine a good fit. The only way players can currently find out if a guild is a potential fit, is to jump in head first and suffer through first-hand experience... repeatedly, guild after guild. There is little to no ability to conduct up-front research to better the odds; you have to jump in. That may sound reasonable the first time, or the fifth, but time after time, year after year, of getting the same results makes for broken gaming.

 

 

  • All guilds say the same simple things, things like "no drama" - an overwrought cliche which means they don't want anyone challenging autocratic dogma and policies set by a few autocrats on behalf of dozens of adults in a community, or set by people who mostly aren't even around anymore - too often both apply. The same tired basics for "charters" are weak at best. This is where Team Bioware can really step up and innovate the MMO-Guild experience for the 99%, providing a huge value and utility to help players find good homes and enjoy TOR.

 

 

GUILD SUPPORT FOR PLAYERS SUGGESTIONS --------------------------------------

 

I'm not here to say that one solution is better than the other, or that there's only one right way to approach it, but here's some examples of ways it can be approached to get the juices flowing:

 

1. Provide a Leader "Charter Toolbox" and Player "Charter Search Tools" - where Guilds are encouraged to answer a list of dropdown box questions developed by Team Bioware (with community input), such that by selecting from a list, helps better define a charter and community expectations, but is also queryable - as was the pre-Launch Guild search tool. The query feature would facilitate players to find Guilds better suited to their needs; on maybe 20 dimensions, such as in the following example:

 


  • Charter Objective #12 - How We Make Decisions
  • A: We are a benevolent dictatorship. Leaders make proactive decisions for quick action and progress.
  • B: We pass Hot Topics by the community for input before leaders make a decision.
  • C: We pass all decision points by the community for input before leaders make a decision.
  • D: We are a democracy and a community, if there's a decision to be made, we discuss it and we vote on it.
  • E: We are flexible, it is a combination of styles depending on the topic and importance.
     
    Optional Comment by Guild Leadership for Objective #12: "xxxxxxxxxxxxx".

 

 

2. Provide a simple YELP or TripAdvisor type feedback rating tool - that allows players to Rate (1 to 5) their perception of their Guild's charter items they selected to define their community. With such a tool and Guilds' members responses over time, we'd have a tool for researching and searching for a good guild fit, and likely see changes in behavior/focus to help leaders improve their community and the TOR community overall.

 

By providing charter tools and query tools, the 100% of players enjoy better charters, better alignment, visibility, and feedback ... the bar is raised en masse.

 

Team Bioware, this is your game, your venture, and its being messed up as much as any other MMO by the anarchy and limited leadership skills of the 1%; folks who generally don't have a clue what it means to administer a community of adults, with respectful and proactive communication, or to navigate communities towards goals and change. That's a shame for the masses who are fed up trying to find a good guild. Bring tools and clarity to charters and help leaders, members, and communities raise the bar dramatically for TOR satisfaction as the big winner.

 

Hint: Do a survey to identify the need for development in this area! Don't take my word for it.

 

[Edit] I prototyped a charter toolbox with Topics and Options, see Sig for URL.

 

 

 

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VII – ENDGAME GUIDANCE

 

 

At one point, I had reached Ilum for first time, and it appeared to be more same ole same ole of planetary quests. Not being in a guild at the time (and again), and no chatter going on between players for info. So, was newly arrived on Ilum and wondering what endgame is all about in TOR. Seemed like Team Bioware doesn't make it very clear what we're supposed to do now that we're at 50. Not only was I not in a guild, but also in a low pop server, typically a dozen players on any given planet, and nobody does Heroics because there's nobody around to do them.

 

Saw a video some time ago that alluded that Ilum was supposed to be some great theme park that kept players busy, but didn't see anything upon arriving - except more typical "do this and kill 30 for a bonus" that I see on any planet?

 

A response from players indicated that Ilum was broken, that we should level alts (which is not endgame) or player warzones or flashpoints endlessly. Many posts suggested that endgame was broken. The end result was nothing short of confusion and bad gaming experience.

 

ENDGAME GUIDANCE SUGGESTIONS --------------------------------------

 

I can't help but feel quite let down by the dev expectation that Ilum offered perpetual activities for end game. I mean, come on. I got sent to the station, where an NPC sends me to Ilum, and I get off, and other than two quests, *crickets*.

 

*crickets*

 

So, how about putting your video dev diary capabilities to use and create some Video Guides; a combination of video narrative and looks at ingame interfaces and experiences.

 

Suggested Content:

 

  • End Game - You Got to 50 and are standing at the shuttle on Ilum, Now What?

  • Warzones - A Beginners Guide: How to get started, a look at interfaces and grouping, motivation for participating, and what to expect.

  • Crafting - A Beginners Guide: Leveling, Complementary Skills and Missions, Reverse Engineering, and how to find those things that don't appear to be given by Missions or landscape nodes.

  • Flashpoints and Ops - A Beginners Guide: How to get started, a look at interfaces and finding groups, motivation for participating, and what to expect.

  • Space Missions - A Beginners Guide: How to get started, a look at interfaces, dailies, ship gear and why, and what to expect.

  • Gearing Up - A Beginners Guide to Gear: Different ways to acquire them, and the differences between gear from different sources.

 

UPDATE: They've since published some video tutorials, including many of the above suggested topics. However, note that there's no narrative, no guide talking through it. Simply thematic trailers of a kind, but it's a start.

 

 

 

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VIII – BROKEN CLIENT/SERVER SYNC UNDERMINES GROUP COMBAT & TAB TARGETING

 

 

What we see is an illusion - while multi-boxing on MMO's in the past, what I see on each screen (in every other MMO) is players and mobs in exactly the same place facing exactly the same direction. Not so in TOR.

 

In TOR, each client appears to position players and mobs in different locations - and aside from each player's perception of locations, the game server sees it from it's own perception. So, a warzone of 16 players and the server, that's potentially 17 different perspectives of locations.

 

What does this mean? What you see and react to (such as Tab-ing with an expectation for the Target to move the way you would expect) is not what the game sees and how it responds to your Tab-ing. You hitting Tab 3 times can actually be Tab-ing through 3 different mobs or players than what you see and expect, because the game sees ~3 different targets in those locations (in front of you) than you see in various locations.

 

In TOR, I (used to) routinely level with 2 boxes. The /follow Command tries to work in TOR but doesn't, due to the above sync location problems mentioned. One client can't keep track of the other to allow a /follow function to operate properly and it quickly breaks sync. Day in and day out, what I saw on two screens is:

 

  • Avatar 1's screen - shows Avatar 2 ten feet ahead of him
  • Avatar 2's screen - shows Avatar 1 is twenty feet ahead of her ...

 

... combined, a good 30 foot gap in perception, and lets not make any assumptions about what's going on with facing...

 

To Illustrate the issue another way:

  • You're standing on a shore of a lava lake and want to jump from stone to stone to cross the lake, and the stones are in motion. When you see a stone 3 feet ahead of you to the left and everyone else, including the game, sees the stone in up to 16 other positions (15 other wz players and the server), no matter what you do, the probability of you actually jumping onto a stone is very low, and most likely you will be jumping straight into lava. The stone isn't where you see it is. That's how other players and mobs are from client to client and server. We all see something differently.

 

Another player described the situation in Huttball, where you think you're blowing a player back into the fire, and they go in another direction, because they weren't (per the server) where you thought they were.

 

I have a rig of 5 boxes and monitors, and held most often 5 to 6 accounts in SWG (6), DDO (2), and LOTRO (5), where I would routinely level and grind mobs with my own alt armies. Not only did the /follow Command work perfectly across 5 avatars in perfect client-server sync, and target-forward, each client saw mob and player "location and facing, both" in the environment EXACTLY the same on every client screen.

 

 

 

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IX - GEAR GRINDING ≠ ENJOYABLE END GAME

 

 

To expect players to play 80 hours a week to have time for grinding dailies, AND for grinding warzones levels of gear, AND for grinding levels of Ops gear ... all to enjoy the top line endgame - is like running a 10 minute mile pace to an objective that's moving away at a 6-minute mile's pace. As a player, you will never find satisfaction. Then, adding insult to injury, by the time any significant number of players arrive at the ability to enjoy and tackle the toughest endgame as a team, fully geared, Bioware raises the level cap and starts us on the gear grind mousewheel again. It's not a matter of competency or ability, it's a time/grind gate.

 

It's a broken model that suggests that they can't keep players subscribed unless they're grinding a task rather than enjoying team-oriented activity with other carrots from guild features (a cantina for a capital ship, or a logo on armor, or ... can dream of motivating awards other than gear for days...)

 

For decades, gamers found great satisfaction in multiplayer combat and group combat - games such as Quake, Counterstrike, Tribes, etc. In those, you weren't chasing gear, you were enjoying the accomplishments of playing your classes well and leveraging teamwork to achieve victories - simply, it was fun team gaming.

 

Here in TOR however, we're gear-gated from achieving team optimization and parity, or raid readiness - so that as a team, you can't focus on the highlighted elements, but have to instead constantly manage gear progression in all things. It limits accessibility and participation.

 

So, also with the lack of Voice Chat embedded for PUG's, endgame is a disappointing no-show for most, whether Ops or PvP. This isn't a matter of "easy mode", but rather grind and time requirements, and opportunity, to get players to a "level playing field" faster (and alt classes) - to then put skills and class knowledge to use to each players' challenge level and capability... Skill progression and Teamwork as determining factors rather than gating due to a career's worth of time available to grind gear, and cumbersome levels of gear complexity. Not saying that gear shouldn't matter at all, but we go overboard... will give examples...

 

Instead of giving us enormous grinds expecting us to play 80 hrs per week, only to see level cap increases, how about making content more accessible, less gear dependent or less grind to get same gear, so there is more opportunity and participation. With that, give us enjoyable content that we will look forward to participating with, more teamwork (integrated Voice Chat for teamwork with pugs) to enjoy, more satisfaction and achievement that isn't just gear oriented. Where gameplay itself is challenging and fun.

 

My clan didn't log in to CounterStrike every day for years because it gave us gear... it was fun!

 

OK, so give us badges and banners and other bragging rights' perks to mark our progression. The difference is in accessibility. When we're all chasing and missing gear, we rarely "arrive" to a participation level where we can all enjoy together and employ our skills against various levels of challenge. Whereas if the gear grind is over MUCH sooner, we can engage content suited to our skill level progression much better, with more focus and clarity, and more flexibility.

 

 

  • More focus and clarity - in that we're working as a team to hone our player and class skills without layering on alot of gear variability and hurdles, to master various challenge levels based on skills and teamwork alone.

 

 

  • More flexibility - in that with a MUCH shorter gear grind, we can gear alts and be a more dynamic guild. Today, we routinely run into, "don't have another tank that's geared for that, can't do it." Where we should be instead is, "let me switch to my tank and we're ready to go."

 

 

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X - SPACE ON RAILS

- Successful models for space games for MMOs are already available, emulate them if you can't create a vision of your own. This equivalent of KOTOR's pod racing is a huge bore. After a few times, it's completely forgettable. I understand that sounds harsh, that's not the intent, but its the facts and there's no way to put it out there without sounding that way. If this were LOTRO, I'd say we could well do without a space game dimension, but this is what IP again? Oh yeah, Star Wars. Looking forward to the time when I can call this one "Fixed."

 

 

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XI - MMO ON RAILS

 

 

Crafting/Merchanting/Manufacturing/Shopkeeper/Resource Reseller/Hunter, Space Raid commander, Tavern keeper, Entertainer, Guild Features/Cap Ships, Player Housing/Shopkeeper, Crafting Cooperative/Storage/Guild Workshop/Guild Bank, ... roles all missing; there are so many things wrong with the themepark approach, it's too flat. I'm not going to say what's the right answer, the right mix for TOR. Someone's got to have some vision to lay out the basic tenets, and then start to work on the details. With an infinite number of ways that Vision could go, me wasting time and print laying out details would be a waste of time, but something needs to be done on many dimensions to make this game have legs.

 

 

 

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XII - GAME/SERVER SERVICES

 

 

Background: Multiple foolish guilds believed the non-intuitive sacred cows held by departed TOR developers when the latter split systems (mail, trade...) and entire guilds by faction. Since that time, when various guilds responded by splitting their Republic avatars on one server, and Empire avatars on another, to preserve slots for what otherwise at the time was a "no-fraternization" policy between factions by Bioware.

 

Now, fast forward - Bioware back-pedals on this sacred cow, and introduces Legacy, HK companion, and inter-faction trade, all combined to make it desirable for players to enjoy both factions, on the same server. All that remains to be done now is give guilds and players the flexibility, the option they should always have had, to have all their member's avatars under in one guild, and allow them to finally reunite their avatars on the same server that have been stranded on multiple servers by faction.

 

1. UNITE OUR AVATARS WITHIN ONE GUILD - Give guilds the option to hold all avatars of any faction for their members within the same guild. Flexibility and Options are part and parcel to allow players of MMOs the ability to develop activities beyond the themepark.

 

2. SERVER TRANSFERS - Let us unite our avatars to be on the same server, to allow us to take advantage of the correct direction that Bioware has taken since launch, regarding Legacy benefits, trade, and content such as HK that all leverage multi-faction engagement. This is long overdue, and should have been done prior to Legacy and HK, to expand access and participation to more players who should have been able to ...

 

... and on the same theme of Server Services:

 

3. CHARACTER RENAME - Give us the ability to rename our characters, at cost, Cartel, or whatever. Like the above, long overdue. This should have been in place during the long months and rename after rename that we were forced to endure during the forced server consolidations when somehow a majority of players lost their names they had in mind and early sub'd for since long before launch. We've got names that we were forced to come up with on the spot, due to failed project leadership, and of the half a dozen 50's I have, I don't really like any of the names I'm now stuck with.

 

 

 

_________________________________________________

THAT'S GREAT, BUT WHAT IS GOOD?

 

 

Well, can't let all the above fundamentals hang there for nearly a year without mentioning what works, what's good:

 

1 - Class and Combat - love the classes, love the advanced classes, love the skills, love the variety. Well done.

 

2 - Crafting - seems to have good fundamentals, should be able to leverage it without a revamp, but needs additional dimensions per Section III.

 

3 - Gear Customization - love how the mods have developed over time to now be able to keep the cosmetic look you want, and substitute in the mods you need. That flexibility is very good. Well done.

 

4 - Look and Feel, Graphics, Animations - very good, thank you.

 

5 - Class Story - very good, with the exception of Sith Inquisitor (needs a revamp, without spoiling, whole thing of disembodied ... well, Abeloth comes to mind, but these aren't Abeloth. Story is weak, I'd toss the whole thing and start fresh. Enjoyed every class story, but SI was very disappointing - can't suspend disbelief THAT much, breaks canon.)

 

6 - Voice in Quests - this is great, but also one of the greatest misses. When the story is so flat (see Section I) from most stories involving going from one stranger to another for yet another task, it ends up being a novelty rather than an innovation. Without quality story to engage us, the outcome is space bar, space bar, space bar.

 

7 - Companions - this is really great, but also one of the greatest misses (see Section I). They are so underutilized related to story, ensemble cast, recurring character, crew... that its crying for better development. The story comes to life when they speak up, too bad they don't speak up much at all. As combat companions, and the flextibilty of crew skill expertise, and LS/DS bias, they're great. Good work.

 

8 - World / Quest Flow - great design that as a player when you land on a planet, you know where to go, and where to go next. Great integration between the class quests and shared quests as you move through a world. Good flow.

 

9 - PvP Warzones - this is what SWG (pre-NGE for those of us who left soon after) was always missing. From an old Quake, Counterstrike, Tribes, BF1942, TF... guy, these are the pinnacle of PvP. However, you need to integrate the payoffs into the Warzones, such that players and guilds are motivated to engage it. I think gear grinds are detrimental to gameplay and participation (see Section IX), but the good news is that the things you should and can award, with some thought, are almost endless and should be oriented towards guilds (guild logos on banners, on armor, guild turrets for Cap ships, features on guild ships, guild multi-person vehicle... endless opportunities to make great things for players and guilds to make guilds eager for Warzone participation.)

 

10 - Cartel - love the flexibility of the Cartel Points system. I sub, but I also use it. The great thing about Cartel is that it's a clear example of Win-Win. Bioware invests in developing it and gains by it, and players use it and value it. If they didn't value it, they wouldn't use it... and guess what? They use it. Win-Win. Great work.

 

11 - General Development - with enhancements to Dailies, travel, Cartel, flattening and flexibility... I've been looking forward to logging in again for the first time in a long while since I had cancelled subs and ceased related family member's participation. Seems things have been improving. Without trying to put a "but" at the end of a positive statement, I would say that rather than see development of new FP's and WZ's, I'm more impressed by other tweaks to make the game seem less on rails, and more dynamic and accessible.

 

Current Ranking Overall: 5 / 10

 

Edited by BlueDestiny
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Will post updates here, and thoughts on sandbox vs. themepark that impact many dimensions of gameplay in the above. Always a great discussion :D

 

Also, let me be the first to say, for those so inclined...

 

"To OP, too many words"

"Wall of Text"

"Didn't Read"

 

Yeah, yeah.

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Where to begin... well I went through your entire post and here are some of my thoughts/comments.

 

Part 1: Unfortunately, there is only so much that can be done in an MMO setting where story is concerned. Killing mobs are a part of the mainstream MMO experience and while stories with longer or more involved steps may be appealing, there is a framework that is hard to stray from without taking certain risk. I think there are a healthy number of companion quests but I would welcome more. When it comes to story I would like to see legacy related quests, where the character you play meets other characters in your legacy.

 

Part 2: Legacy Names (or family names) are no longer unique. You should have no problem having the same Legacy name for all the accounts in your household. That is assuming you have a legacy rename option available or have yet to create the legacies. Your legacy characters can be unrelated by hiding the legacy name. The way I understand it, legacy names can be family names though they are not necessarily family names, if that makes sense to you. They are only considered a surname if you choose them to be, legacy title or surname. You can show your legacy when you start a new character, assuming you have already created the legacy. I think there is a reason it is called Legacy instead of Family system, because it is not the same as real life, thus your comparisons are somewhat unnecessary. I have no comment on canon names.

 

Part 3: I'm sorry but I don't know what you are talking about here. There are themes for each world, music is triggered in combat, cutscenes, flashpoints, etc. What do your percentages mean? They have already improved travel significantly from launch, and added the quick travels for the daily areas. I don't see how the pace of leveing is slow in any shape or form, there are xp boosts, quick travel reduction times through legacy unlocks, the rocket boosts can now be purchased, etc. The entire color system could be improved for gear as can the crafting system. The whole idea of lightside darkside options for non-force users show that it doesn't matter if your character is jedi/sith or not. Apparently the force surrounds everything, I don't know, take your pick. Datacrons are optional, while they can give you a boost at end-game they are meant to be a challenge to get, at least this is my view.

 

Part 4: I don't know what you're trying to say here exactly. Triggers are necessary because the idea is you complete your class story as you complete your companion story arcs. You can still gain max affection with companions regardless of where you are in your class story. Nobody said you have to buy companion gifts either.

 

Part 5: I think there are already enough sub-forums and categories to post in. Too many sub-forums seperate the community. Also they are only as effective as how people use them. Notice many people will simply post in General when a lot of the topics posted there could fit in one or more of the sub-forums.

 

Part 6: Sorry, I'm against your guild charter toolbox idea. Sure you could have people fill out these forms and answer general questions about the guild, and let people find a guild that matches their criteria on the list, but they will only know what the guild is really like once they join them. In the end, I would say it would be a waste of resources. The rating system would not work the way you wanted either, people would just get their friends or close allies to bump up their reputation, or worse give credits to those who give them high praise, it would simply be a popularity contest. What might work though, is to have an in-game leaderboard to display guilds that have cleared certain content, achievements etc. that way Guild X can't simply claim to be the best on the server without the hard numbers being open for public scrutiny. People could draw upon their own conclusions on guilds from these figures. Such leaderboard would also need a toggle option for guilds that don't want to be public or competitive.

 

Part 7: I would like to believe that end-game is an aspect of the game that keeps changing. There are tutorials for beginners, I'm not sure what you're getting at. Video guides seem like something more suitable coming from actual players and groups. I would rather see a guild run of an operation then a generic video from SWTOR with 'tips' on how to clear it.

 

Part 8: Tab targetting works fine for me, I'm not sure I follow your stone analogy. If tab target doesn't respond the way you want, it could be the way in which you position your character, that said, tab targetting has it's uses but is not the only way to target things.

 

Part 9: You have a gripe against grinding, that much is clear, but some people find it tolerable, even fun. If the model is broken as you suggest, then why do many players play these MMOs that utilize the grind? There must be something right with the system. I'm not saying it is the best or even the ideal way MMOs should work, to have players grind for gear, but are there better alternatives? Nobody is saying you need to spend 80 hours a week playing. Just because the game offers dailies, weeklies, does not mean you are expected to do them all.

 

Part 10: Space Combat can be improved but I think for the time being it should be seen as a mini-game and nothing more. I know many people are concerned with the addition of grade 7 ship upgrades and their inclusion in the cartel market and I hope they address these concerns and make appropriate changes to the game.

 

Part 11: This is how the game was designed. Many people would prefer more open areas and player created content but changing the overall design would not be an easy task at this point. I do agree though that this game could really use some sandbox elements but whether they are willing to implement this or can achieve this are two separate barriers.

 

Part 12: What is a sacred cow? Character renames and server transfers are something I would like to see answered properly but things change where money is concerned. As we have already witnessed, things that are said in the past aren't always how they turn out.

Edited by Tordos
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Thanks for reading the entire material, and for your post. Though the initial response seems to be paraphrased as, "can't do much about those," or "not sure I see it that way", I might suggest you give it some more thought. Alot of the responses skim the surface without asking for the root causes, or what the opportunities are - which makes sense with a first pass. I think the material might resonate more with the devs, who as leaders should know what a sacred cow is (what with TOR full of them).

 

I'll touch on one of the response points as an example, and selected Guild Tools (Section VI) as it matters to any MMO more so than any other gaming genre. You didn't see the value in helping guild leaders provide more clarity for their charters, that ratings might be rigged (abused) by guild leaders.

 

Remember the needs that the guild tools would be designed to address:

 

 


  •  
  • Help leaders better clarify for themselves and for their members - what they want for and of their community
     
     
  • Help players better define for themselves what they're looking for in a community
     
    (Fair to say that both stakeholders in the two points above could use a little more clarity in MMO's today, to help find better community fits)
     
     
  • Help players search for guild communities
     
     
  • Help players land in better suited communities
     
     
  • Help leaders and players, both, be among like-minded players with like-minded needs

 

 

That said, here are some considerations to your points:

 

 


  1.  
  2. With the above purposes, all stakeholders would benefit from the system. This means that it would be appreciated for the value it brings for all involved, better thriving guilds of like minded players having better clarity of what their guild is designed for, and likewise what it's not designed for. To misuse (game) the tools would be counter-productive to the success of the entire guild, for both leaders and members.
     
     
  3. Learned in business long ago that you don't forgo "providing great service" or suboptimize the "design of systems to provide great service", for the sake of abuses. Yelp and Tripadvisor seem to do just fine. I contribute to both. While I don't believe we'd need more than self-monitoring of the tools, since the search would be on charter points, not ratings, leaders have the opportunity over time to effect the outcome of ratings, and the final accountability or consequences of gaming the tools would be by departing players, see next bullet ...
     
     
  4. Example of how it would benefit all stakeholders and why trying to game the tools doesn't work: Joined a guild once that was rare in that it did have a lot of material speaking to its activities and purpose (case of abuse by false advertising). It didn't live up to any of it. After some time and observation, being an adult in a guild of adults, I discussed this with leaders. They said, "well, its a work in progress" or "we used to do that" and alot of other reasons why the charter material was not remotely accurate. What they did was post alot of things that "sounded good" as a charter, with no tangible plans or attempts to execute. So, they had a revolving membership door like any other guild, with alot of unsatisfied members, and were not thriving as a community. They had stated their charter, they just didn't deliver on it - might have been more acceptable if they were delivering on any of it.
     
    This period of time was a "learning moment" for their leaders, having a good charter and getting feedback from many, and their go-forward success derives from their ability to learn from those moments. Kudos to them for putting a clear charter out there, and hopefully they learned from setting expectations, underperformance, and feedback. At least they had going for them that they started from a base of like-minded players who all wanted what the charter described.

 

 

With each of so many clans and guilds I've endured over the decades, the tools would have "spared" me and infinitely countless other players months of dissatisfying MMO experiences (hey, if we log off dissatisfied from the game, from gameplay or from guild experiences, it's still a dissatisfying feeling on logging off that reflects directly on the enjoyment of the game itself) if we had known that before joining. Fact is, after decades of clans and guilds, I've been without a guild for ... oh, six months or so, and gave up looking.

 

It's a huge shame, and huge missed opportunity related to TOR and endgame, but I'm so tired of the blind guild "jumping in." Talking to others ingame without a guild badge, they say the same thing. A huge suboptimized group waiting for better service, as well as the countless other players who are in guilds, but are not satisfied. Wake up, MMO developers.

 

Believe you me, I have no compunction in sharing my ratings (as an avid Yelp and TripAdvisor user) and constructive thoughts. Why? Because by doing so helps make everything "better", raises the bar for all stakeholders. More clarity, accountability, opportunity to see weaknesses and address them, more visibility, promotes better communication on charter tenets. As a leader, I'd be a fool to circumvent such valuable tools, or not take advantage of them, as it would be to my own detriment.

 

Frankly, these tools would revolutionize guilds and MMO satisfaction for any MMO, and would blow your minds after seeing the effects on player satisfaction surveys. It would give those thinking about starting a guild a sense for expectations and what leading a guild means - to get ready to learn and evolve as a leader! If some developer wakes up and provides these services, the landscape and success of guilds would change dramatically.

Edited by BlueDestiny
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To the above, in support of Section VI, the weakness of guilds' charters and definition, and serious challenge for players to find and settle into a good guild fit, I prototyped a Charter Builder toolbox with Topics and (drop-down) Selections in another Thread, see URL in sig. Would like people's input on those topics and selections in that thread to refine it. Thanks.
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regarding Section VI, Guild Tools, and see sig for Guild Charter and player's Guild Support tools:

 

Joined a guild again, and like any time in the past, went from running dailies solo, to:

 

  • Full Rakata and Black Hole gear in a matter of days
  • Running HM Flashpoints and SM/HM Ops within days
  • Alot of knowledge about how mechanics and endgame works
  • Big shift in focus from dailies to FPs and Ops.

 

Basically, what you expect when you are part of a guild that uses voice, and is active, right? No surprise.

 

We'll see how the personalities mesh, but that's the problem... have to be in a guild to enjoy things like the above, and have to put up with a guild to enjoy the above. Be great if Bioware would provide the tools necessary to get more people into good guild fits, and more guilds with tools to build better charters and expectations for gaming communities of adult players.

 

So more people can enjoy the game... alot more.

 

P.S. regarding Section IX, gear grind, find that its alot of activity for activities sake. A real grind. However the things the groups like to do are not gear oriented, but things like masks, vehicles... get the most enthusiastic engagement. All corresponds with what's said in the OP, redirecting good content and loot, that isn't hung on a gear grind and gates.

Edited by BlueDestiny
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  • 1 month later...
I skimmed through it and thought most of your ideas were good. I'd like to talk about the voice chat idea. I'm okay with it, as long as it's optional. I would prefer not to reveal my voice, especially since I probably won't have met most people, and I'm sure others agree with me. Other than that, your ideas are mostly good. I didn't actually notice any other ones I disagreed with, but as I said, I skimmed through it.

 

LOTRO currently has this feature. I don't know what other MMO's do, but have seen others mention it in forthcoming MMO's.

 

It works effectively in LOTRO. The way it works is generally 100% of players who group, especially PUG's, have voice chat active, but many or even most don't talk, they just listen. It only takes 1 player in a group of 4 to talk, and generate teamwork and coordination. In fact, it's even better when 1 talks, and 3 listen. The norm was that you'd see the voice feature indicator "live" among all members of the party, but rarely would see most players actually talk, but they're listening when needed.

 

Examples:

 

"turn the boss around so his back is to us"

 

"Mojomaker, can you cc the Troll?", to which Mojomaker either replies or types, "yes"

 

"It's imperative that everyone interrupts the bosses heals, everyone got that?", to which they say or type "yes"

 

Having voice elevates the teamwork 500%, or in the absence of voice, handicaps teamwork 90-98%. It's critical.

 

Games like LOTRO demonstrate how it works effectively, is adopted nearly universally by players, even though most players don't ever say a word, but they listen, and they type responses.

 

Of course, guilds could care less, because most use their own voice tools (of course they do because its so fundamental to teamwork) for groups, but for everyone else, PUGS, or mixed groups of Guilds/PUGS, they need to be able to communicate to raise group activity from chaos to teamwork, and enjoy the same level of gameplay that guilds do with their voice servers.

 

For any modern MMO to have group content, and not provide voice, is a fundamental failure in design. For a game like TOR that claims innovation with Voice story, to not include Voice among players... well, it's like comparing color movies today, to black and white silent films.

Edited by BlueDestiny
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