I still have faith that JJ is much smarter so he will do some miracle to undo this.

When JJ told Rian "Just do what you want. We have no story thought up." I'm not sure I can agree JJ is smarter.

I don’t think you’re in the minority. Almost my entire family and most people I know loved the movie and regarded it as one of their favourite Star Wars movies, although I can admit the nostalgia that comes with the OT and PT just overpowers everything amazing movie though and highly underrated.

Nostalgia for the PT? Must be someone who grew up with those. They were definitely disappointing to a lot of us and the new trilogy is finally putting things back on course.

I think my biggest issue with 8 is ZERO continuity with 7 and now JJ has to sit here and go "well, where do I go from here?"

Had TLJ been an anthology movie, I personally would of just slid it aside and moved along.

But one point I harp on, there is ZERO cohesive vision. Anything JJ set up with 7, RJ crushed it and tossed it aside. To stay in his bubble and tell his story instead of working within a shared vision and staying cohesive.

But that's as much KKs fault as it is JJ and RJ. Love or hate the preqiils, atleast they had VISION and just fell flat at execution where as the new trilogy has ZERO vision at all and may look visually impressive, but the story just isn't there.

I think my biggest issue with 8 is ZERO continuity with 7 and now JJ has to sit here and go "well, where do I go from here?"

 

Had TLJ been an anthology movie, I personally would of just slid it aside and moved along.

 

But one point I harp on, there is ZERO cohesive vision. Anything JJ set up with 7, RJ crushed it and tossed it aside. To stay in his bubble and tell his story instead of working within a shared vision and staying cohesive.

 

But that's as much KKs fault as it is JJ and RJ. Love or hate the preqiils, atleast they had VISION and just fell flat at execution where as the new trilogy has ZERO vision at all and may look visually impressive, but the story just isn't there.

All three of them should be fired imho. They have no idea what they are doing and just keep putting nails into the coffin of Star Wars. And Disney should have known better after JJ went about killing Star Trek with those god awful Star Trek movies.

Still I have hope Disney did fire James Gunn and word is some of the other Marvel folks are on the chopping block. Maybe we'll get lucky and Disney will clean out the trash from Star Wars.

All three of them should be fired imho. They have no idea what they are doing and just keep putting nails into the coffin of Star Wars.

Imho, Star Wars is doing better than ever, and that is thanks to KK and other people's hard work at Lucasfilm and elsewhere. While some people may not like the new films, whether its how they feel that they are pushing an agenda or not being Star Wars at all etc., they've brought whole lotta new people to this franchise, giving something to old and new fans to fall in love with this marvelous saga that I and so many others love with passion.

Imho, Star Wars is doing better than ever, and that is thanks to KK and other people's hard work at Lucasfilm and elsewhere. While some people may not like the new films, whether its how they feel that they are pushing an agenda or not being Star Wars at all etc., they've brought whole lotta new people to this franchise, giving something to old and new fans to fall in love with this marvelous saga that I and so many others love with passion.

And at the same time shove a lot of people OUT of the franchise who were long time fans.

Or have you not seen the past 7 months of Lucas Films employees straight up attacking fans. Or KK saying Carrie's brother Todd misinformed or wrong, or any of the other PR blunders they keep pulling?

Like RJ calling everyone who didn't like it man babbies living in the basement or being called every nasty thing under the sun? Not a great way to endear yourself to fans.

Plus to top it off they are pandering to a crowd(a new one that you praise) THAT DOES NOT CARE. They don't buy the merchandise(toy sales are so bad Star Wara toys are being sold at bargin outlets and Toys'R'Us tanked with literal rows upon rows of unsold star wars toys.

Solo tanked at the box office and cost Lucas Films at a minimum 80 million. And top ot off there is so little hype from fans, wouldn't be shocked to see 9 tank.

KK and company has done far worse to the brand. Why she's about to be shown the door.

And at the same time shove a lot of people OUT of the franchise who were long time fans.

 

Or have you not seen the past 7 months of Lucas Films employees straight up attacking fans. Or KK saying Carrie's brother Todd misinformed or wrong, or any of the other PR blunders they keep pulling?

 

Like RJ calling everyone who didn't like it man babbies living in the basement or being called every nasty thing under the sun? Not a great way to endear yourself to fans.

 

Plus to top it off they are pandering to a crowd(a new one that you praise) THAT DOES NOT CARE. They don't buy the merchandise(toy sales are so bad Star Wara toys are being sold at bargin outlets and Toys'R'Us tanked with literal rows upon rows of unsold star wars toys.

 

Solo tanked at the box office and cost Lucas Films at a minimum 80 million. And top ot off there is so little hype from fans, wouldn't be shocked to see 9 tank.

 

KK and company has done far worse to the brand. Why she's about to be shown the door.

LucasFilms employees have only "attacked" people who are making racist or sexist comments, or who are straight-up harassing people on social media. Just because a bigot or harasser is also a self-described "Star Wars fan" doesn't mean they're above being called out for such crap, nor should they be.

RJ's position in particular has consistently been: "if you dislike the movie, that's fine -- it's great that fans are passionate about Star Wars. But if you're acting like an A-hole, then I'm gonna call you an A-hole."

LucasFilms employees have only "attacked" people who are making racist or sexist comments, or who are straight-up harassing people on social media. Just because a bigot or harasser is also a self-described "Star Wars fan" doesn't mean they're above being called out for such crap, nor should they be.

 

RJ's position in particular has consistently been: "if you dislike the movie, that's fine -- it's great that fans are passionate about Star Wars. But if you're acting like an A-hole, then I'm gonna call you an A-hole."

Exactly!

And those so-called fans have said much worse about RJ and others. Funny how they think it's ok when they do it, but can't take it when someone calls them on their BS. No matter their age, fans like that need to grow up.

Exactly!

 

And those so-called fans have said much worse about RJ and others. Funny how they think it's ok when they do it, but can't take it when someone calls them on their BS. No matter their age, fans like that need to grow up.

Except here's the fun fact. Outside of questioning RJ's decisions, what did I say badly about him? Oh wait nothing. Till he started lumping me in with the vile ones because I didn't like his "masterpiece".

I didn't attack him personally till he just lumped me in with all the vile people and then started calling me vile things.

Just because I don't likenthe movie and have numerous issues with it doesn't mean I am an old white male man baby misogynist racist etc.

When I am personally a half white, half black 35 year old male who detested how the Hispanic male was emasculated at every turn, the black guy was turned into a walking joke then cycled, the old white guy was turned into a coward and grumpy old man.

But women, can do zero wrong, unless Phasma and god what a joke she was. I feel so bad for Gwendolyn Christie. To go from being the bad*** Breanne of Tarth to a joke who collectively across 2 movies got 3 and a half minutes of movie time in a lame attempt to sell toys.

I mean the movie literally screams the following:

I hate men, regardless of color

I hate capitalism

Women can do no wrong

Kill the past off so we can make money off new things, but we still hate capitalism.

But riddle me this everyone. If this was not a star wars movie, would you give 2 craps about it?

If the answer is yes, good on ya. If it's no, then you might want to dig beneath the Star Wars name and actually look at the structure of the movie and find out how bad it is.

Kind of funny, in a "head-in-the-sand" kind of way, people cant argue the facts, only the SJW perspective and justification for LA "attacking fans." Still cant address the massive loss of 80M$ from Soylo, the merchandise tanking....basically the dollars supporting the franchise's future. Every turn of the way, disgruntled fans are raising their voices and pulling back on their wallets, only to be SJW shamed. Can't see Disney slowing down to a trickle or a complete stop in forward movement with the franchise, halting production on announced films etc. People can tout the "greatness" of TLJ all they want but the evidence is there that enough fans are sick of the crap that's being pushed out and down our throats....Hope you can recruit enough SJW's to prop up a dying star....

-Ashur

Kind of funny, in a "head-in-the-sand" kind of way, people cant argue the facts, only the SJW perspective and justification for LA "attacking fans." Still cant address the massive loss of 80M$ from Soylo, the merchandise tanking....basically the dollars supporting the franchise's future. Every turn of the way, disgruntled fans are raising their voices and pulling back on their wallets, only to be SJW shamed. Can't see Disney slowing down to a trickle or a complete stop in forward movement with the franchise, halting production on announced films etc. People can tout the "greatness" of TLJ all they want but the evidence is there that enough fans are sick of the crap that's being pushed out and down our throats....Hope you can recruit enough SJW's to prop up a dying star....

 

 

-Ashur

Pretty much.

Except here's the fun fact. Outside of questioning RJ's decisions, what did I say badly about him? Oh wait nothing. Till he started lumping me in with the vile ones because I didn't like his "masterpiece".

 

I didn't attack him personally till he just lumped me in with all the vile people and then started calling me vile things.

 

Just because I don't likenthe movie and have numerous issues with it doesn't mean I am an old white male man baby misogynist racist etc.

When and where did that happen? Because it seems like some people are conflating "he calls out the misogynists, the racists, and the man-babies who are among those complaining about his movie" (which he has done) with "he calls everyone who complains about his movie a misogynist, a racist, and/or a man-baby" (which he has not done).

I mean the movie literally screams the following:

I hate men, regardless of color

I hate capitalism

Women can do no wrong

Kill the past off so we can make money off new things, but we still hate capitalism.

• Luke saved the Resistance, showing up when it counted and going out as nothing short of a bona fide hero.
  
• Since when did a negative portrayal of fat-cats and war profiteers become a controversial plot point? You'd see that in standard '90s Saturday morning cartoons, it's not some radical partisan position. And on top of that, the last word the movie gives on on this "social commentary" is DJ punching up the holo of the X-Wing, showing Finn "oh hey, those guys you're hating on? Your side is buying from them, too, and they're the only reason you good guys have weapons to fight back with" -- the narrative never refutes that, letting DJ's "things aren't necessarily so black-and-white" point stand.
  
• Rey utterly failed in her self-appointed mission to redeem Ben -- that was the whole reason she left Luke and went off on her own, Luke warned her not to do it, and sure enough she wasn't up to it.

Kind of funny, in a "head-in-the-sand" kind of way, people cant argue the facts, only the SJW perspective and justification for LA "attacking fans." Still cant address the massive loss of 80M$ from Soylo, the merchandise tanking....basically the dollars supporting the franchise's future. Every turn of the way, disgruntled fans are raising their voices and pulling back on their wallets, only to be SJW shamed. Can't see Disney slowing down to a trickle or a complete stop in forward movement with the franchise, halting production on announced films etc. People can tout the "greatness" of TLJ all they want but the evidence is there that enough fans are sick of the crap that's being pushed out and down our throats....Hope you can recruit enough SJW's to prop up a dying star....

 

 

-Ashur

So, the push-back against the "SJWs" was . . . to make it so that the movie with a straight white male lead bombed after three movies with female leads and more diverse casts each made more than a billion dollars?

So, the push-back against the "SJWs" was . . . to make it so that the movie with a straight white male lead bombed after three movies with female leads and more diverse casts each made more than a billion dollars?

Except the fact TLJ made 700 million dollars less and it was also WELL short of Lucas Film projections.

When and where did that happen? Because it seems like some people are conflating "he calls out the misogynists, the racists, and the man-babies who are among those complaining about his movie" (which he has done) with "he calls everyone who complains about his movie a misogynist, a racist, and/or a man-baby" (which he has not done).

 

 

• Luke saved the Resistance, showing up when it counted and going out as nothing short of a bona fide hero.
  
• Since when did a negative portrayal of fat-cats and war profiteers become a controversial plot point? You'd see that in standard '90s Saturday morning cartoons, it's not some radical partisan position. And on top of that, the last word the movie gives on on this "social commentary" is DJ punching up the holo of the X-Wing, showing Finn "oh hey, those guys you're hating on? Your side is buying from them, too, and they're the only reason you good guys have weapons to fight back with" -- the narrative never refutes that, letting DJ's "things aren't necessarily so black-and-white" point stand.
  
• Rey utterly failed in her self-appointed mission to redeem Ben -- that was the whole reason she left Luke and went off on her own, Luke warned her not to do it, and sure enough she wasn't up to it.

I'm not digging through all his posts...oh wait he deleted most of them so I couldn't prove it even if I wanted to.

1. Luke had to literally be kicked in the posterior by Rey do right to do so. Hell Mark Hamil said it best in his early interviews when he said "I fundamentally disagree with everything you've done with my character". The Luke we actually know from 4-6 wouldn't of needed to be literally punked into doing so. Why it's Jake Skywalker, not Luke.

2. Sure it's something to talk about, when it's actually relevant to the main plot and not wasting screen time to shove a political message out. Same with slavery. What in the name of hell does that planet need with slaves when on a per capita basis droids are far cheaper?

3. Yes she failed to do so and suffered zero consequences and hell nothing changed. So her going to Snoke's flagship was again a WASTE OF TIME.

I'm not digging through all his posts...oh wait he deleted most of them so I couldn't prove it even if I wanted to.

 

1. Luke had to literally be kicked in the posterior by Rey do right to do so. Hell Mark Hamil said it best in his early interviews when he said "I fundamentally disagree with everything you've done with my character". The Luke we actually know from 4-6 wouldn't of needed to be literally punked into doing so. Why it's Jake Skywalker, not Luke.

2. Sure it's something to talk about, when it's actually relevant to the main plot and not wasting screen time to shove a political message out. Same with slavery. What in the name of hell does that planet need with slaves when on a per capita basis droids are far cheaper?

3. Yes she failed to do so and suffered zero consequences and hell nothing changed. So her going to Snoke's flagship was again a WASTE OF TIME.

to point number 3:

Honestly I didn't mind that as much as the whole Rose/finn plot. Rose needed one scene, Stop Finn from taking the escape pod. After that all the rest between them should have been cut from the movie, it was all just a waste of useless content.

So, the push-back against the "SJWs" was . . . to make it so that the movie with a straight white male lead bombed after three movies with female leads and more diverse casts each made more than a billion dollars?

Rationalize it how you wish. A backlash usually follows a trigger. The trigger in this case is TLJ, the backlash hurt Solo, which from what I hear is an ok movie.

Again, their is enough evidence to show that there has been "enough" pushback, for whatever reasons people are pushing back, to make Disney take pause and look at the directions the franchise is moving. I wouldn't be surprised if Ep 9 gets a kick in the jewels as well if the same hacked-off fans don't think things will change directions. Just my prediction....

Ashur

Except here's the fun fact. Outside of questioning RJ's decisions, what did I say badly about him? Oh wait nothing. Till he started lumping me in with the vile ones because I didn't like his "masterpiece".

 

I didn't attack him personally till he just lumped me in with all the vile people and then started calling me vile things.

 

Just because I don't likenthe movie and have numerous issues with it doesn't mean I am an old white male man baby misogynist racist etc.

 

When I am personally a half white, half black 35 year old male who detested how the Hispanic male was emasculated at every turn, the black guy was turned into a walking joke then cycled, the old white guy was turned into a coward and grumpy old man.

 

But women, can do zero wrong, unless Phasma and god what a joke she was. I feel so bad for Gwendolyn Christie. To go from being the bad*** Breanne of Tarth to a joke who collectively across 2 movies got 3 and a half minutes of movie time in a lame attempt to sell toys.

 

I mean the movie literally screams the following:

I hate men, regardless of color

I hate capitalism

Women can do no wrong

Kill the past off so we can make money off new things, but we still hate capitalism.

 

But riddle me this everyone. If this was not a star wars movie, would you give 2 craps about it?

 

If the answer is yes, good on ya. If it's no, then you might want to dig beneath the Star Wars name and actually look at the structure of the movie and find out how bad it is.

I disagree with your assessment of the treatment of men in the film. Every one of those three them had an important lesson to learn and every one of them ended up stronger in the end. Poe learned how to be a better leader and understand the sacrifices that must be made. Finn learned to think of others and to stop running away from his problems. Luke learned how to shoulder the burden of being the legend that the galaxy was in need of. That's what the middle movie of a trilogy is for.

And think about the women: they did wonderful things, but they all also had their failings. Holdo lost most of the Resistance. Leia caused Poe to lose trust in leadership (Holdo, too, but Leia broke the trust initially when she berated and demoted him). Rey grew with the Force, but now she doesn't have direction since Luke is gone. And it makes sense that Rey makes fewer mistakes... she's the hero, just like Luke was in the OT.

And, no, the movie wouldn't hold up as well on its own. That's the thing about being a part of a larger story, to truly appreciate it, you need to see how the whole story comes together. Think about it, ESB is the best movie of the saga, but it wouldn't make any sense all on its own.

Oh, and I doubt RJ attacked you personally. If you see yourself in his words, then that says more about how you see yourself than how anyone else sees you.

to point number 3:

Honestly I didn't mind that as much as the whole Rose/finn plot. Rose needed one scene, Stop Finn from taking the escape pod. After that all the rest between them should have been cut from the movie, it was all just a waste of useless content.

I think it was just a poor execution of important character development for Finn.

I disagree with your assessment of the treatment of men in the film. Every one of those three them had an important lesson to learn and every one of them ended up stronger in the end. Poe learned how to be a better leader and understand the sacrifices that must be made. Finn learned to think of others and to stop running away from his problems. Luke learned how to shoulder the burden of being the legend that the galaxy was in need of. That's what the middle movie of a trilogy is for.

 

And think about the women: they did wonderful things, but they all also had their failings. Holdo lost most of the Resistance. Leia caused Poe to lose trust in leadership (Holdo, too, but Leia broke the trust initially when she berated and demoted him). Rey grew with the Force, but now she doesn't have direction since Luke is gone. And it makes sense that Rey makes fewer mistakes... she's the hero, just like Luke was in the OT.

 

And, no, the movie wouldn't hold up as well on its own. That's the thing about being a part of a larger story, to truly appreciate it, you need to see how the whole story comes together. Think about it, ESB is the best movie of the saga, but it wouldn't make any sense all on its own.

 

Oh, and I doubt RJ attacked you personally. If you see yourself in his words, then that says more about how you see yourself than how anyone else sees you.

I don't think he attacked me personally. What ticks me off is that he attacked anyone at all. Take Zach Snider for instance. Many disliked his vision for the DCEU. Do you see him out there blasting anyone? Nope.

Maybe RJ should of done the same.

But something else also jumped out at me. You say Finn learned not to run away. Umm excuse me, didn't he ALREADY learn that lesson when he faced off against Kylo in TFA? Why did Finn regress to have to learn that lesson all over again?

Also Poe needing to learn that lesson. Sure any commander needs to learn when to push and when not to, but the way the film went about it was all well wrong. A better leader SHOWS their subordinates how to do that. Not berate them in front of his peers and when asking a simple question of " what is the plan, what are my orders?" Being basically told , you're a hot shot man and there is no need for you to know, is asinine.

Even demoted at that time he's still one of the senior officers Holdo has left. You'd think she'd atleast give him the bare bones right? I mean hell Janeway on Voyager told the junior man of her senior staff the plan. You'd think Holdo would do the same?

Sorry this mess could of been far better written and actually FLOW from the last movie.

Cause here's the thing. ESB matches WAY better with ANH than TLJ does sith TFA.

I don't think he attacked me personally. What ticks me off is that he attacked anyone at all. Take Zach Snider for instance. Many disliked his vision for the DCEU. Do you see him out there blasting anyone? Nope.

 

Maybe RJ should of done the same.

 

But something else also jumped out at me. You say Finn learned not to run away. Umm excuse me, didn't he ALREADY learn that lesson when he faced off against Kylo in TFA? Why did Finn regress to have to learn that lesson all over again?

 

Also Poe needing to learn that lesson. Sure any commander needs to learn when to push and when not to, but the way the film went about it was all well wrong. A better leader SHOWS their subordinates how to do that. Not berate them in front of his peers and when asking a simple question of " what is the plan, what are my orders?" Being basically told , you're a hot shot man and there is no need for you to know, is asinine.

 

Even demoted at that time he's still one of the senior officers Holdo has left. You'd think she'd atleast give him the bare bones right? I mean hell Janeway on Voyager told the junior man of her senior staff the plan. You'd think Holdo would do the same?

 

Sorry this mess could of been far better written and actually FLOW from the last movie.

 

Cause here's the thing. ESB matches WAY better with ANH than TLJ does sith TFA.

See, now you're admitting that the even the female characters made mistakes and were not infallible. That was part of my point.

This movie did a great job of bringing almost everyone's weaknesses to the surface and a LOT of people suffered and died as a result. Most of the characters also grew and learned in the end. That was the entire point of the movie. Again, yes, parts of it could have been handled better, but it got everyone to where they need to be heading into the final installment.

And it was still a good flick. Not the best SW movie ever, but being in the top half of 10 films is still alright.

You know, except for Rose, who stopped Finn from taking out the enemy and saving lots of people, just because she didn't want him to die, but was willing to let many others die.

DING DING DING!!! Along with the absolute worst kiss scene in any form of media EVER.

See, now you're admitting that the even the female characters made mistakes and were not infallible. That was part of my point.

 

This movie did a great job of bringing almost everyone's weaknesses to the surface and a LOT of people suffered and died as a result. Most of the characters also grew and learned in the end. That was the entire point of the movie. Again, yes, parts of it could have been handled better, but it got everyone to where they need to be heading into the final installment.

 

And it was still a good flick. Not the best SW movie ever, but being in the top half of 10 films is still alright.

Oh they did make mistakes, but for the most part suffer ZERO adverse consequences.