Old dog here trying to learn a new trick.

 

For as long as I've been playing MMOs, I've been a point and clicker with regards to my primary powers. However, I've seen a few things online that have lead me to the conclusion that, while this works fine for PVE, for PVP play it's less than optimal. And I'm trying to up my game.

 

Since I just started playing TOR today, I thought what better time to try and relearn the way I've traditionally played? Only trouble is I'm having a hell of a time with it. I understand the theory that, the fewer the mouse clicks, and the more one does with their keyboard, the more mobility one has. And in PVP mobility = survivability.

 

That said, I find that when I try to use the 1-8 keys for my main powers, rather than my traditional point and click method, I'm more rooted than ever because I keep having to move my left hand all over the place. With my point and click method, my left hand is freed up to keep me more in constant motion. So it's having the opposite effect of what I intended.

 

I'm sure part of it is that I need more practice but, I'm curious, are hot keys THE definitive way to PVP or is point and click with the mouse viable? Thanks.

 

When I moved away from clicking I began with Z,X,C for most frequent abilities.

 

Then I added alt + Z,X,C and ctrl +Z,X,C and utilized middle mouse (plus modifiers). For effective use of Alt and Ctrl modifier I have ripped out the Window key between them (recommended).

 

Later I also found a use for F1-F8 keys for cooldowns and utility abilities. They sit there in groups of four and are easily distinguishable.

 

I never used numbers 1-0. I find their position very uncomfortable and very hard for peripheral view.

 

And once I learned all that I bought a Razer Naga mouse. It took me about a week to re-learn, but it gave me much better options.

 

I hope that helps.

Old dog here trying to learn a new trick.

 

For as long as I've been playing MMOs, I've been a point and clicker with regards to my primary powers. However, I've seen a few things online that have lead me to the conclusion that, while this works fine for PVE, for PVP play it's less than optimal. And I'm trying to up my game.

 

Since I just started playing TOR today, I thought what better time to try and relearn the way I've traditionally played? Only trouble is I'm having a hell of a time with it. I understand the theory that, the fewer the mouse clicks, and the more one does with their keyboard, the more mobility one has. And in PVP mobility = survivability.

 

That said, I find that when I try to use the 1-8 keys for my main powers, rather than my traditional point and click method, I'm more rooted than ever because I keep having to move my left hand all over the place. With my point and click method, my left hand is freed up to keep me more in constant motion. So it's having the opposite effect of what I intended.

 

I'm sure part of it is that I need more practice but, I'm curious, are hot keys THE definitive way to PVP or is point and click with the mouse viable? Thanks.

 

As one old dog to another .... I would say they are critical. Clicking abilities on a hot bar while moving and targeting is much slower.

 

Consider looking at a programmable gaming keypad. I made the switch about 6 years ago and have never looked back.

 

The concept of the gaming keypad is you never have to move your hand. Initially it will be frustrating and your performance will go down for awhile, but once you get used to it, there is no better way.

 

I use the Razer Nostromo ... But the Logitech G13 is popular as well.

 

Again, it takes some getting used to, but its well worth it .... and us old dogs need every advantage we can get!

The absolute best scenario is to use a gamepad like the Nostromo in combination with a gaming mouse like the Razer Naga or the Logitech G700. This give you yet more accessible buttons without every moving your hands.

 

As far as gaming mice go .... I was a big Razer Naga fan, but have moved away from that to the G700. My Naga developed button click problems after 11 months of use and judging by other reviews and comments on the net, many others have experienced the quality problem.

 

But beyond the quality issues with the Naga, even though it has 17 programmable buttons versus the G700's 13 Buttons, the position and accessibility of the buttons on the G700 are MUCH better. The reality was that I was not really using all the buttons on my Naga because a number of them are just plain hard to access.

 

A common strategy for a gamepad gaming mouse combo is to setup the modifier keys like Shift-Ctrl-Alt on the most comfortable buttons for you to access on your mouse. Then setup your gamepad to include the numbers 0-9,-,=. If you then bind the quickbar slots you essentially can have access to 4 full quickbars without ever moving your hands.

It is usually alot easier and quicker with keybinds since you dont have to take the time moving your mouse across the screen.

 

The only REAL thing tho that will screw you over is the movement issues you have by clicking.

If people know you are clicking instead of keybinding, they can just keep running around you, and you will have an extremely difficult time handling this, compared to using binds.

I've read all the pros and cons, and I have also tried keybinds vs point and click, and have the same problem. I am less mobile and feel more like I am randomly hitting keys hoping they do what I want while I sit stock still in the mean time.

 

I use the mouse to turn and pan and a gamepad for forward movement. I hate the WASD keyboard layout, but the gamepad works fine for me.

 

My question is, how does one remember all the bindings? Do you have to keep a legend on your desk for awhile until you memorize them?

 

Between forgetting where I put skills and simply not being very fast in reaction time between "oh I need X skill" and pressing X skill, my keybinding attempts have always been quite a bit slower for me than point and click. At least that way I can see the skill and hit it, and I do very well.

 

Thanks

Shai

I've read all the pros and cons, and I have also tried keybinds vs point and click, and have the same problem. I am less mobile and feel more like I am randomly hitting keys hoping they do what I want while I sit stock still in the mean time.

 

I use the mouse to turn and pan and a gamepad for forward movement. I hate the WASD keyboard layout, but the gamepad works fine for me.

 

My question is, how does one remember all the bindings? Do you have to keep a legend on your desk for awhile until you memorize them?

 

Between forgetting where I put skills and simply not being very fast in reaction time between "oh I need X skill" and pressing X skill, my keybinding attempts have always been quite a bit slower for me than point and click. At least that way I can see the skill and hit it, and I do very well.

 

Thanks

Shai

 

It is all about practice and just keep using the same binds til you learn them by heart.

When I played WoW I had about 55 keybinds that I used pretty much all the time. Includes macros etc aswell.

 

Even if i logged in a completely new warlock i could bind exactly the same binds because i knew exactly where they were.

 

Practice =)

Well, I spent last night leveling up from 6 all the way to ... 6.

 

Three hours of changing control schemes, desperately trying to find one that worked for me. In the end, I've just been point and clicking for so long that activating my attack powers with hot keys is awkward and unnatural. I can't seem to make it work.

 

But using thumb buttons on a mouse ... THAT seems to work for me. Maybe because it just feels right to me to be activating my powers with my right hand. So I'm going to take the advice of a couple of posters in this thread and hit Best Buy in search of that gaming mouse with the 12 thumb buttons. That seems more my speed.

Well, I spent last night leveling up from 6 all the way to ... 6.

 

Three hours of changing control schemes, desperately trying to find one that worked for me. In the end, I've just been point and clicking for so long that activating my attack powers with hot keys is awkward and unnatural. I can't seem to make it work.

 

But using thumb buttons on a mouse ... THAT seems to work for me. Maybe because it just feels right to me to be activating my powers with my right hand. So I'm going to take the advice of a couple of posters in this thread and hit Best Buy in search of that gaming mouse with the 12 thumb buttons. That seems more my speed.

 

I'm in the same boat man.. I'm trying to change my ways with the help of the Naga mouse. I don't really like the movement of the mouse yet, missing my G9, but the 12 side buttons are great (thought the thumb buttons, for me anyway, seem almost useless given their position).

Edited December 16, 2011 by Tanith

The problem with using a mouse like that is you eventually become dependent it. If for some reason you Razer stops making them, it will be extremely difficult to get used to a normal mouse. On the other hand, a mouse with 2 side buttons and a mouse wheel is ubiquitous, so there is almost know way you'll ever lose access to one. You'll have plenty of keybinds available with just a normal mouse like this.

The problem with using a mouse like that is you eventually become dependent it. If for some reason you Razer stops making them, it will be extremely difficult to get used to a normal mouse. On the other hand, a mouse with 2 side buttons and a mouse wheel is ubiquitous, so there is almost know way you'll ever lose access to one. You'll have plenty of keybinds available with just a normal mouse like this.

 

Good point.

 

I'll buy 2 and take good care of them.

Good point.

 

I'll buy 2 and take good care of them.

 

Good luck. The build quality on Razer products are atrocious. Well, except for their headphones. My Razer Cacharias is the most comfortable and durable headphones I've ever owned.

This is all very informative and much appreciated.Thanks to all contributors.

 

I'm an old gamer just coming off ffxi (NA release)and the highly hyped and very disappointing ffxiv.

I've always used a programable controller and since my son and friends decided to go with SWTOR PvP last week I been abit worried because of the lack of controller support.

 

This thread has eased my concerns and I guess I'll resign myself to a couple weeks of relearning a new system.

My son says,bout time old man,lol.

It all depends on what's most comfortable to the player. I have clickers in my guild who are probably better then the majority of people who use bindings.

Razer Naga helped me use key bindings more and stop point and clicking. I'll still use the keyboard to move in combination with mouse turning though. Find a style that works for you and go with it.

Razer Naga helped me use key bindings more and stop point and clicking. I'll still use the keyboard to move in combination with mouse turning though. Find a style that works for you and go with it.

 

THIS.

 

I picked up one last night and it works like an absolute dream.

 

The problem I was running into was that I was so used to my right hand being the hand that activates my attack powers, that trying to switch to the left simply felt too unnatural. But with the Razer Naga, I picked up in 5 minutes. Felt completely natural. Can't imagine now that I'll ever go back to point and click.

I've been gaming with ESDF instead of WASD for movement for a few years now, took a while to get used to it but it frees up a lot more hotkeys for my left hand. I have 12345-QWA-RTG-ZXCVB for all my bindings. Also using Shift/Ctrl for hotkey modifiers causes my hand to ache too much from stretching, so i've bound my Mouse 4 button to Shift instead.

 

The most annoying but important part of setting this up is finding comfortable key placement for each skill and without stretching your hand too much. On top of the hotkeys i do still make use of clicking on some skills though, like buffs or skills that require manual targeting with the mouse anyway.

Edited December 19, 2011 by trankz

It all depends on what's most comfortable to the player. I have clickers in my guild who are probably better then the majority of people who use bindings.

 

Yeah, every time there is a clicker vs keybinder discussion someone knows/is a clicker who dominates everyone.

take a look at this... taugrim.com guides section

 

you dont' have to do his binds exactly but you'll get the point

 

Thanks for the link. Helped make sense of everyone's comments. I've been a point and clicker for years. Being left handed I'll have to flip the suggestions over but I have the concept.

I still didnt get about "turning".

So you click left mouse to see the map and when you want to turn press right mouse to turn the direction your mouse is turning with left?What good does that have in pvp?Can I have some videos in youtube explain it?

 

And it is worth to buy a G13?

I still didnt get about "turning".

So you click left mouse to see the map and when you want to turn press right mouse to turn the direction your mouse is turning with left?What good does that have in pvp?Can I have some videos in youtube explain it?

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4gCdWHEwsvs kind of shows the difference between the two. If you turn with your mouse you can turn a lot faster than if you do it with the keyboard.

 

 

And it is worth to buy a G13?

 

I use a Razer Nostromo and I'm very happy with it and that is the Razer version of a G13, or rather than G13 is a Logitech version of a Belkin N-52 powered by Razer, and I find the software that comes with it to be fantastic.

Point clicking is for amateurs. I hot key everything. Many PvP guilds (including mine) frown upon using the point/click method during operations. Granted I do point click on things like stims and duration buffs but not in the middle of a fight.

Keep up the practice, start learning in PVE, you'll grow fast!

 

Form me, I don't use strafe, to move I press Forward, W that is, and then right click mouse button, run that way.

 

May the force be with you

I use clicking to a certain lvl till I get all important skills. Hotkey configurations are bahh...

Related (but probably going to embarrass me):

 

Is "Target Nearest Enemy" supposed to work in PvP? I have a heck of a time clicking to target and my keybind for TNE doesn't seem to do anything.

Related (but probably going to embarrass me):

 

Is "Target Nearest Enemy" supposed to work in PvP? I have a heck of a time clicking to target and my keybind for TNE doesn't seem to do anything.

 

In my experience it does but the range on it seems to be rather limited.