Then they screwed that one up, as the continued silence is going to make them look significantly worse in the eyes of the media (and extended non-gamers and non-SWTOR players) than if they had simply given us updates over the course of the year.

 

Or the content.

 

The silence allows for a lot of negative speculation against EA and Bioware: Austin, particularly their surrounding their inclusive stance.

Oh I agree completely. However, there are those who believe that "there's no such thing as bad press", and someone who thinks that way may be the ones behind it.

I hope that's not the reason, because IMO it's a rotten way to run a business. It was just a random stray thought I had as to a possible reason behind the utterly unreasonable silence.

SGRA's would not be news worthy. Because we've had them in games already. Mass Effect already has them in it. So does the Sims. KotoR even had it (Juhani was a lesbian. Play Female Revan and get together).

Um, we know this. See the "Heart of a Jedi" link. I wrote a huge FAQ that talks all about it. It talks about the inclusion of a gay couple in the Star Wars Extended Universe too.

The press has started picking it up because BioWare has it in those games and not in this one. They won't even talk about it publicly. Mind you, they were the ones that claimed the intention to include it for this game.

I'll just put in the sites that have already picked this up since the 18th. This is not including the LGBT articles from lezgetreal, as well as a couple of other blogs.

TOWars did an entire recent podcast dedicated to this.

SWTORstrategies did an article dedicated solely to this.

And another from mmomeltingpot.

Darth Hater, on their most recent podcast, start to talk about SGRs at 1hr 26min.

All within the past few days. The sites such as TORWars and Darth Hater are not small potatoes, and SWTORstrategies isn't either. Plus, I was also flat out told by one of them that the are going to tip off Massively, NG4 as well. They were the ones that suggested to get posted it to LGBT Reddit.

Even after EA did a recent interview where they talked about how happy they were to have LGBT gamer content.

Even after they had already promised the players in ToR.

Prior history or not, BioWare/EA is not holding up to the promises they made for this game. There is no real good reason for them to stay so damned quiet.

Not even a "still working on it!" "yep, it's coming," or "sorry, it's been delayed/scrapped due to the vast changes in the company."

Merry Yule!

Edited out comments that came off with far more snark than I intended. Sorry about that.

You know, I wonder if politely asking Mr. Gaider to possibly send a note/query down to the Austin studio might yield some results.

I tried that actually. I sent him the same letter I sent to the press, just a little more personalized. That was the night before his most recent Tumblr post.

I am not the writer of the letter mentioned in the article.

Just like with Hall Hood, he probably isn't allowed to say anything at this point. It's sad that Mr. Gaider works BW-Edmonton in this case, not BW-Austin.

This was his post: http://dgaider.tumblr.com/post/38151639841/the-impact-of-games

Even when we intentionally are not saying something, we are still saying something even by its omission— and that means we have a responsibility to think about what that is.

To Who It May Concern,

I am writing with interest regarding the game Star Wars: The Old Republic and the promises Bioware made during beta development. As you may be aware, the company Bioware is quite famous for its inclusive gaming and writing, in so much that a player, if they choose, can romance non-player characters of the same gender (or sex). Now, Star Wars: The Old Republic is Bioware's first foray into the MMO market, being led at the moment by Mr. Jeff Hickman. From reading Kotaku's SWTOR tag, I know that your are not unfamiliar with Star Wars: The Old Republic's many controversies and issues during its first year of life, but I would like to bring up one which is considered to be a "hot button issue". This is, of course, of Star Wars: The Old Republic's same-sex romances or lack thereof.

Here is a link to the Same Gender Relationships Clarifications? thread, which is on its sixth incarnation on the current, post-beta forums:

http://www.swtor.com/community/showthread.php?t=476215

Here follows the link to Natashina's FAQ about same-gender relationships in Star Wars: The Old Republic, covering the stances of George Lucas, EA, Disney and Bioware on LGBT content and the inclusion of LGBT people:

http://www.swtor.com/community/showpost.php?p=5287894&postcount=2368

Here follows the link to Chaac's timeline, laying out precisely the information (or non-information) that Bioware has 'provided' on the subject of same-gender relationships in Star Wars: The Old Republic, previous Star Wars games and in the expanded universe:

http://www.swtor.com/community/showpost.php?p=5338187&postcount=154

For some more accessible information, here is the body of an incident report I recently sent to GLAAD (Gay and Lesbian Alliance Against Defamation):

Though Bioware have indeed previously stated that there is indeed intention to bring same-sex content to Star Wars: The Old Republic, I believe that I should be brought to general attention just how Bioware have handled the discussion of the content, or rather, not handled it. Until very recently (25th September, to be exact) all mention or discussion of same-sex content was immediately redirected to the above linked thread. This redirection was done so under site moderation rules that call for duplicate threads to be closed and redirected as necessary, but curiously this rule was only ever really applied to discussion of same-sex content (and still is, with one notable exception). Bioware, after much pressing and one user reporting the moderation team for homophobic harassment, said that they were applying the rule more strictly to the discussion of same-sex content for the protection of those who wish to discuss it.

Now, this might be understandable if our discussion topic (linked above) were in one of the more heavy traffic boards, like General Discussion or Community. It is, however, not in a heavy traffic board. The discussion of same-sex content is relegated to the Story and Lore sub-forum, which, rather unsurprisingly, is for the discussion of in-game story aspects, something which our discussion is only relevant to in a round-about way.

As to how Bioware have engaged with the community on same-sex content, it is very simple to say that they have not. From January until March of 2012, each weekly Question and Answer session, in which questions posed by the community were answered by developers, the question of the inclusion of same-sex content was asked. It was never addressed. During March 2012, the Guild Summit was held. This was a live Q&A session, in front of a live audience asking questions and was also broadcasted, live, over the internet. It was only when Daniel Erickson was asked during the Guild Summit Q&A - and was therefore unable to dodge the question - about same-sex content were the community given a rough estimate of "this year" (presumed to be 2012). Interestingly, however, Mr. Erickson did explicitly state that same-sex content would be "this year", but rather said that same-sex content would be bundled with other story content.

From March then on, we asked for clarification of Mr. Erickson's comment (never transcribed to the official site, mind) and were ignored.

After Mr. Erickson left Bioware and was replaced with Mr. Hall Hood as Lead Writer, we asked if Mr. Erickson's comments were still valid. We have been ignored on this.

We have asked if the sudden and fast more to Free2Play has affected the development of same-sex romance content. We have been ignored.

We have asked if there is still intention to bring same-sex content to Star Wars: The Old Republic, at ant point, in any capacity, as the end of the year draws ever closer. We have been ignored.

At no time has Bioware ever voluntarily acknowledged the existence of same-sex content, the existence of their LGBT fanbase or the existence of the discussion topic linked above. Bioware has only ever given the most piecemeal information after enormous amounts of pressure.

During the Q&A session for Mr. Hood, the Lead Writer, questions about same-sex content made up 25% of the total questions in the thread. They were ignored.

During the latest Q&A Livestream session with Mr. Schubert and Mr. Hickman, many members asked up same-sex content and we were ignored. It has even been pointed out that Mr. Hickman appeared to be laughing at the players he was answering.

Many players, myself included, are tired of asking the same questions week after week and being ignored. Bioware claim to be an LGBT friendly organisation and producer, but their handling of same-sex content in Star Wars: The Old Republic seems to very much put that in doubt.

Thank you for your time.

And here is the body of a letter I sent to the Penny Arcade Report, providing a more general view on the subject:

Bioware and EA are fairly famous in the gaming industry for being inclusive of LGBT persons and for making content geared toward them. When Star Wars: The Old Republic (SWTOR) launched, there was a rather public campaign by anti-LGBT groups to prevent the inclusion of same-sex romances in SWTOR - this was shot down by EA, who stated that they include LGBT content regardless of criticism.

However, during the Beta of SWTOR it was stated that there were "no gays in Star Wars" - a comment that was quickly removed and replaced with a general statement of intention to include same-sex content into SWTOR post-launch because Bioware realised that they have(had) a large LGBT fanbase. The latter comments were made by Stephen Reid, previous Community Manager (since replaced by Joveth Gonzalez).

In March of 2012, Daniel Erickson, a story writer, stated that same-sex content would be coming to SWTOR with other story content and that said story content would be introduced "this year" (assumed to be referring to 2012). This statement came only after months of pressure for post-launch statement, as Stephen Reid's comments had been removed with the removal of the beta forums, and equal months of silence.

Since Mr. Erickson's comments in March and despite constant questions of the whether or not the same-sex content is going to introduced into SWTOR, Bioware has not addressed the community in any manner. Yes, Mr. Gonzalez did post in the 'official' thread: http://www.swtor.com/community/showpost.php?p=5130639&postcount=1164, but this was no statement, did not address any actual questions (that is, if Mr. Erickson's comments were still valid) and has been the entirety of Bioware's engagement on this subject, as Mr. Erickson's comments from the Guild Summit were never transcribed in any official capacity to the SWTOR website.

I contact you on this matter because we are nearing the one year anniversary of SWTOR's release. It is disheartening that two companies who claim to be so inclusive have made the decision to not engage with their fanbase on this matter in any meaningful way and did, at some point during development, decide that LGBT persons should not be represented in one of their biggest endeavours.

In the thread linked we have discussed the trials of development post-launch and the affects of the move to Free2Play on post-launch development and how that might have hindered the actual recording and coding of same-sex content, but none of us have felt that that justifies Bioware's increasingly noticeable silence. This is particularly becoming a sore point as recently the "Hood Toggle" crowd (those who want to be able to switch between having their Jedi robe hoods up or down) were given an idea of the particular problems with coding and implementing hood toggles.

~

Those of us who are in vocal support of same-gender romances in Star Wars: The Old Republic are aware of the time required to create the fully voiced, animated cut scenes required for the companion-based quests in question. We are also aware of the changes that have occurred at Bioware: Austin after the release of Star Wars: The Old Republic and how this have impacted the release of content and how having a living, breathing, very breakable game is never going to run smoothly. But what we cannot understand is why Bioware: Austin does not engage with its player base, why it seems incapable of addressing the existence of this topic and the interest it has generated. At every turn, every avenue of questioning, we are met with silence, foppish disregard and a worrying continued ignorance.

At this juncture, there are those of us who feel that Bioware: Austin is merely riding on the coattail's of Bioware's previous inclusive nature - that they are taking the reputation for granted and are hoping for the continued loyalty of those interested in content that they have no intention of creating or releasing.

It is not as if Bioware or EA are afraid of those who are vocally homophobic. David Gaider, in his blog post (http://dgaider.tumblr.com/post/38151639841/the-impact-of-games), spoke of how glad his to be part of a company which has touched so many people in a positive manner, regardless of any hate mail he may receive on the subject. Ginger Maseda, EA's Global Talent Acquisition and Inclusion Leader, is quoted (http://www.gamesindustry.biz/articles/2012-10-15-Publishers-LGBT-Equality-is-Civil-Rights-Issue-of-our-Time) as saying that "Essentially, [same-sex content]'s been a non-issue from an investor perspective."

We can see no reason for Bioware: Austin's continued stubborn silence on this matter, but unfortunately we are not even able to question them on that silence, as it falls into the category of that which they cannot speak.

I write in the hope that you may be able to help us. That perhaps your voice could be louder than ours.

Thank you for your time and consideration. I hope this letter finds you well.

Faithfully,

Tatile

~

And that I sent to Kotaku. Now, if you'll excuse me, I have to play some Pokemon.

If the are adding new companions for this content it would definitely be "new". Even if they just write it in with existing companions, the SGRA will apparently be different from the OGRA so I would consider it "new" content.

If they added a new companion for this, I'd call it new content I just don't like the idea that I'd not beable to experience the content if I already gone through all the scenes with a companion and couldn't redo it.

Seriously....there are much much more things such as new content and bug fixes that BW needs to work on not same sex relationships this should be last on the list.

Not really. Many of the bugs come as a result of patches and content that came after the announcement that SGRAs would be included in TOR. So quite honestly, SGRAs should be closer to the top of the list than fixing minor bugs.

Granted, there are some that have been in game since day 1, like enemies that die standing up. Annoying, yes, but not overly game-breaking. The lack of SGRAs is game-breaking for some. Not for myself, but it's game hindering. I have 2 toons that aren't being played until we find out more about what's going on with it. Having 5 50s, this leaves me 5 toons to play between now and then. At the rate it's going, I'll have to switch servers to play more characters before we're told anything about what's going on with this (yes I could do dailies, but that's dull enough on 5 50s as it is, and I don't even do them on all 5 50s; it also has no benefit beyond stockpiling money I probably don't need).

Not really. Many of the bugs come as a result of patches and content that came after the announcement that SGRAs would be included in TOR. So quite honestly, SGRAs should be closer to the top of the list than fixing minor bugs.

Granted, there are some that have been in game since day 1, like enemies that die standing up. Annoying, yes, but not overly game-breaking. The lack of SGRAs is game-breaking for some. Not for myself, but it's game hindering. I have 2 toons that aren't being played until we find out more about what's going on with it. Having 5 50s, this leaves me 5 toons to play between now and then. At the rate it's going, I'll have to switch servers to play more characters before we're told anything about what's going on with this (yes I could do dailies, but that's dull enough on 5 50s as it is, and I don't even do them on all 5 50s; it also has no benefit beyond stockpiling money I probably don't need).

I have no problem with SGR being added, but I can think of many other things I'd rather have over something that has what to do with the game exactly? If it actually made a difference in something in the game, but as of now, I what, flirted with Andy, married him, and now...nothing.

Oooooo...to have that chance to do it with a SG. For all this talk of "white straight males get all the benefits" I've seen in this thread, the chance to have female character with female character comes off as "yeah, the white straight males will love this" just as much

Seriously....there are much much more things such as new content and bug fixes that BW needs to work on not same sex relationships this should be last on the list.

**looks around**

Evening guys.

I wanted to come and drop this off. I think someone left this point about 2 miles back. The posters are tryin' to give ya directions!

The thread is not a place for the discussion of whether SGRAs should be added to the game (again, Bioware has already committed to them), or of a SGRA “toggle” or other method of turning off this content. The OP poll is outdated and no longer relevant to this thread.

Great letter Tatile!! One thing: the information about Disney is not in the FAQ. Due to some really confusing policies, I took it out. There are certain things relaxed some, so I can put it in there. It's not like anyone that cares negatively about this content is going to read it.

Edit: Added the Disney info. It's question #16

I have no problem with SGR being added, but I can think of many other things I'd rather have over something that has what to do with the game exactly? If it actually made a difference in something in the game, but as of now, I what, flirted with Andy, married him, and now...nothing.

It adds a new level of replayability to the game. That might be all it takes to get people to really enjoy playing a new toon.

The last patch added a new WZ, more space missions, and a new tier of ship armour. For the people who don't do space missions or PvP, the last patch was a waste of time in updating the game to receive no benefit. I don't see why the same can't be done to finally appease the players that have waited for this feature to be added. Sure, a lot of people couldn't give two ***** about SGRAs being added. I'm sure there are just as many people that feel the same about WZs and space missions.

It adds a new level of replayability to the game. That might be all it takes to get people to really enjoy playing a new toon.

The last patch added a new WZ, more space missions, and a new tier of ship armour. For the people who don't do space missions or PvP, the last patch was a waste of time in updating the game to receive no benefit. I don't see why the same can't be done to finally appease the players that have waited for this feature to be added. Sure, a lot of people couldn't give two ***** about SGRAs being added. I'm sure there are just as many people that feel the same about WZs and space missions.

Exactly. PvP means nothing to me. Space combat will have to be completely rebuilt to get me involved. So, SGRA's is definately a priority item. BUT, for the sake of the argument, let's say EA/BW said they were going to increase party sizes to 8 people, then waited as long and with an equal ammount of updating or clarification? I can't use playable species, because the Cathar never materialized either.

You know, we need to start emphasizing to the press that we haven't gotten any sort of answer whatsoever.

They keep talking about why it hasn't come and why it might never come. The excuses as well as the good reasons are flying everywhere.

I wouldn't be thrilled if they were cut, but I could understand at this point. If it couldn't come to pass, well, at least I tried.

Most of the posters could deal with that, one way or the other. Some might go, some might stay, but at least they'd know what to do with their game time.

It's not a matter of us "not getting the answer" we want.

It's the simple fact that there is no answer.

Once this has a few more days to heat up, I'm sending up a follow up letter to all the sites I hit up the first go around. I'm going to let them know of the other sites that has picked this up. I'm also going to stress that the issue has really become lack of any sort of public acknowledgement at all.

I'm hitting the point where the answer, whatever it might be, needs to come straight from Jeff Hickman's or Courtney Woods' mouth. On swtor.com

As featured news, on the front page.

That way, no matter the answer, we can at least know where to go from there.

Gah. Why is that so hard to grasp?

I'm at the point where I think Bioware is not giving us a concrete answer for exactly that reason. they are calculating with us..

both the 'pro-sgra' and the 'anti-everything-remotely-gay' folks (and I might be a little too pessimistic here, but I actually believe that most people who claim they think other issues are 'more important' really just have 'real life obligations'... sigh)

for us, we still have this glimmer of hope that they will come 'soon'. and the 'others'? bioware hopes to draw them into the game for as long as possible. I'm not even going to argue how little sense it makes to be morally opposed to same gender flirting in a game where you kill people left and right, but we all know these people exist. and so does bioware.

I'm personally just kinda bothered by the fact that apparently bioware has no problem with these people playing their games, but that's the idealistic person in me who just likes to shun 'ignorant' folks from their life completely. heh. doesn't work in real life, doesn't work in gaming.

It adds a new level of replayability to the game. That might be all it takes to get people to really enjoy playing a new toon.

The last patch added a new WZ, more space missions, and a new tier of ship armour. For the people who don't do space missions or PvP, the last patch was a waste of time in updating the game to receive no benefit. I don't see why the same can't be done to finally appease the players that have waited for this feature to be added. Sure, a lot of people couldn't give two ***** about SGRAs being added. I'm sure there are just as many people that feel the same about WZs and space missions.

A thousand times this. I mean, nothing you mentioned, WZ, space missions, ship armour has brought me back into the game. It's just not where my interest lies. Forgive me for saying that, not wanting to insult anyone who thinks otherwise, but these things have been designed for the straight, male gamer. Which I'm not. Far from it.

Bioware just better get their act "straight"..... just the other way round, you know.

Don't worry, they're just as lazy as you in not actually reading the thread.

Zing.......

I decided to rebut all those guys who keep saying how 'gays don't exist in Star Wars'....

Well, neither do women. Or at least, there's not a lot of women:

http://lezgetreal.com/2012/12/rebutting-the-argument-against-same-gender-romance-in-star-wars-tor/

I'm going to keep writing about my experiences with this. Some are going to be like that, but others are probably not going to be quite so nice.

Woot! You're an amazing writer.

Keep them coming everyone. I'm still bookmarking

Gonna be scarce for a few days. Christmas, family, yada yada. Just finished a huge baking spree.

Double layered fudge, sugar cookies and banana bread. All gluten free and yummy. My husband rocks.

Off to bed early. Night guys.

I decided to rebut all those guys who keep saying how 'gays don't exist in Star Wars'....

 

Well, neither do women. Or at least, there's not a lot of women:

 

http://lezgetreal.com/2012/12/rebutting-the-argument-against-same-gender-romance-in-star-wars-tor/

 

I'm going to keep writing about my experiences with this. Some are going to be like that, but others are probably not going to be quite so nice.

True fact - southpaws don't exist in Star Wars... therefore, they should remove off-hand weapons.

No way I'm going to catch up with this thread...but I suspect that at this point you can kiss the class story SSRs goodbye.

Voicing the SSRs would be hugely expensive and SWTOR isn't making the money to do it. As a former marketing VP in the entertainment industry (licensing but I can do this crude a version of the math) they couldn't justify calling back the talent and doing the production.

It would be like making a sequel movie. Can't move the money with the beating the game has taken in the game press and on the money it's made. If F2P turned the game around as well or better as happened with LOTRO just *maybe* -- but honestly IMO (and I'm very friendly to the idea of SSRs) I think they'd put the money into fixing issues with the engines and doing expansions to the general class quests on a level cap basis before they caught up with the SSR fanbase.

I'm just calling it as I see the odds. I could see Bioware -- the old Canadian company -- doing it if they had funds in the bank. No way in hell can I see Disney/EA/Bioware doing it.

le sigh

Woot! You're an amazing writer.

 

.

Thank you. I'm actually making the transition into being a novelist. I've even considered starting 'fan fic' stories to just post so that I can keep practicing. I find it interesting to look at a world and see where the original writer may have not been so thorough in their creation.

No way I'm going to catch up with this thread...but I suspect that at this point you can kiss the class story SSRs goodbye.

 

Voicing the SSRs would be hugely expensive and SWTOR isn't making the money to do it. As a former marketing VP in the entertainment industry (licensing but I can do this crude a version of the math) they couldn't justify calling back the talent and doing the production.

 

It would be like making a sequel movie. Can't move the money with the beating the game has taken in the game press and on the money it's made. If F2P turned the game around as well or better as happened with LOTRO just *maybe* -- but honestly IMO (and I'm very friendly to the idea of SSRs) I think they'd put the money into fixing issues with the engines and doing expansions to the general class quests on a level cap basis before they caught up with the SSR fanbase.

 

I'm just calling it as I see the odds. I could see Bioware -- the old Canadian company -- doing it if they had funds in the bank. No way in hell can I see Disney/EA/Bioware doing it.

 

le sigh

I'm pretty sure they're already calling back the original voice talent, to do this expansion (if they arent it sure isnt much of an expansion, haha), so while they're there having them record the romance lines wouldn't take much time at all. Also, you're assuming the lines arent already recorded and simply were never used, they may be already recorded and ready to put in the game once the green light is given.

But aside from all that, obviously if they add whole new characters to romance they 'still' have to bring back the original voice talent, AND they'd have to bring in new voice talent to do the other half of each given romance. Its much simpler to simply make the existing characters available to all, because then you obviously wouldn't need new voicework from the character you're romancing, their romance lines are already in the game. You'd just need the voice of your character saying the lines they should've been able to say all along. Its a common myth, but a myth nonetheless, that somehow its easier to make whole new characters than simply disable the gender check for the existing ones. Its vastly, VASTLY easier to do the latter, as a quote mentioned not that far back in this thread from David Gaider stated. He was just stating the obvious, if folks actually thought about it they'd figure it out for themselves, David just made it easier for everybody to understand .

I decided to rebut all those guys who keep saying how 'gays don't exist in Star Wars'....

 

Well, neither do women. Or at least, there's not a lot of women:

 

http://lezgetreal.com/2012/12/rebutting-the-argument-against-same-gender-romance-in-star-wars-tor/

 

I'm going to keep writing about my experiences with this. Some are going to be like that, but others are probably not going to be quite so nice.

Actually, that is not quite accurate. http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Mandalorian clearly states "Homosexuality and same-sex marriages were apparently accepted by the Mandalorians, as Goran Beviin and Medrit Vasur were an openly homosexual married couple living on Mandalore, who were fully integrated into Mandalorian society." This is covered in the book Sacrifice by Karen Traviss.

I'm pretty sure they're already calling back the original voice talent, to do this expansion (if they arent it sure isnt much of an expansion, haha), so while they're there having them record the romance lines wouldn't take much time at all. Also, you're assuming the lines arent already recorded and simply were never used, they may be already recorded and ready to put in the game once the green light is given..

Or they just hire Billy West.

For those who don't know who he is, he is Philip J. Fry, Hubert Farnsworth, John Zoidberg and Zapp Brannigan (to name a few) on Futurama

But, yeah, they really could do this for the expansion. I hope they have, but I really don't want to buy it until I know.