I for one am tired of.

 

1. Going up against premades even though there is a perfectly good rated system out there, (why dont they use it? because the ques are way way too long because there is no cross server pvp ques.) premades rolling pugs constantly will only bleed more casual subs and discourage F2P folks from sticking with PVP.

i don't have a problem with solo only Q option, but the real difference maker isn't "is the other team a partial premade." the real question is...do 4 or 5 of my teammates have less than 16k hp. if the answer is yes, then my team loses 95% of the time. that said, the best grp with the best. so it's rather annoying to be their fodder for 5-15 minutes.

2. no cross server ques... why is it that pretty much every major MMO has this feature esp for pvp but this one does not, most of the player base that pvp's are casuals so the pro pvpers have been pretty much discouraged from queing up for rateds which directs them to steam rolling pugs for smiles and grins. with the pvp que system being left for server only it leaves pvp guilds open for win trading in rates now, if they are the only two groups queing then they will get matched together rince and repeat. We need cross server pvp ques badly.

i sincerely believe that BW would have instituted x-server queues a year ago if they could. I'm as sure as I could possibly be (without actually knowing!) that they lack the technological know-how and/or ability to create x-server queues. and if they ever do figure it out, kiss good-bye to vstar for at least a month.

3. The overly excessive CC in this game to hide class imballance, patch 1.4 was the most rediculous patch to date, there were no players out there that clamord for much more CC in WZ's, pre 1.4 was still high but tollorable but the constant CC is rediculous, by the time your resolve bar fills you are dead, then you get the pleasure of watching it drop behind a invisible wall only to rince and repeat.

+1. iunno who asked for more CC, but please unsub and recant...preferably in reverse order. thanks.

4. The dead silence from BW on these issues despite the fact that it is and has been a complaint since most of the major patches esp premade's steam rolling solo que's.

yeah..umm....iunno. I would say that given BW's inability to construct x-server or intuitive queues, a solo only option is the next best thing. they could also stop trying to back fill wz's and just let them end, or they could give ppl a choice about whether they wanna join an in progress wz or remain in queue for a fresh one - also, set a cutoff "score" for each WZ in regard to when a back fill can/will be brought in.

the sad thing is that BW will never read this post or possibly many of the other threads in the pvp forums, any answer is more favorable to dead silence. i would rather them tell me were not going to change this or that and if you dont like it hit the road over them not saying anything at all.

no. it's prolly more sad that I re-upped my 6 month sub, knowing full well that BW won't do much or anything over that period of time. damn you lucas!

iyeah..umm....iunno. I would say that given BW's inability to construct x-server or intuitive queues, a solo only option is the next best thing.

Just thought I'd throw this out there.

PvP Update in 1.2

This was from the 1.2 update, which as we know the PvP aspect was pulled 16 hours or so before the patch. However, I'll direct to this quote here:

The Ranked Warzone matchmaking system will match full groups of eight against one another, solo players against one another, players with similar ratings, etc. However, in order to ensure that players won’t have to wait too long for a match to occur, the system will become more ‘flexible’ over time. Solo and group queued players might be pulled together after a while if needed to launch a match. If a match cannot be made for extended periods of time, then Normal and Rank queued players (except those who queued as a group of five or more) might be pulled together to launch a ‘mixed’ match. Players will always be notified when a mixed match is made on the Warzone enter prompt. The rewards received in mixed matches will be based on how the player queued (type of commendations, rating adjustment if any, etc.).

 

We know that the flexible matchmaking and mixed matches are not ideal. They are only in until cross-server queuing is available.

While this is refering to ranked, I'd like to note the Biowares orginal idea was a matchmaking system based on some criteria, and that the goal would be solo and premade queues, with cross over to keep the matches fluid. The same idea could work just as well for Non-Ranked.

As for anyone wondering about the -last line- It is in referece to mixed matches/matchmaking of Ranked vs. Unranked players, not Group vs. Solo players.

Just thought I'd throw this out there.

 

PvP Update in 1.2

 

This was from the 1.2 update, which as we know the PvP aspect was pulled 16 hours or so before the patch. However, I'll direct to this quote here:

.

Interesting... so a solo queue for ranked was always a possibility (which I hate) and the idea of some kind of match making as well. I also liked seeing them mention cross server even though if you look around you won't find any of the dev team talking about cross server any more recent than March 2011. Which was around 1.2.

Interesting... so a solo queue for ranked was always a possibility (which I hate) and the idea of some kind of match making as well. I also liked seeing them mention cross server even though if you look around you won't find any of the dev team talking about cross server any more recent than March 2012 Which was around 1.2.

*fixed* and +1

solo queues for ranked is utterly ridiculous. composition is essential in a full premade (8) because you're going in against a full premade. solo queues would turn out like group finder (in every mmo) where any idiot who is a tank/heal class will queue as tank/heal just to shorten his wait time, but he is in fact a dps. plus, how do you decide what strat you're going to employ if you don't choose your own team. e.g., 2 tanks and 2 heals? that's vanilla, but 1 tank and 3 heals as well as 5 dps and 3 heals tend to wreck the team that's handicapped in the dps dpt with 2 tanks.

Team playing based game encourages team play...therefore prelates are encouraged...so ye solo queu is wrong

2 options:stop playing or be social

Also, I can not (after paying a sub) endure to play with randoms when90% of the sw

Swtor pvp community lacks any type of pvp skill..the frustration when solo queuing is just too much to bare, I'm not here to teach,carry or "just play"..yes I'm an elitist jerk, but I never wanted to please everyone anyway..even when in a premade sometimes I get frustrated with the 4 randoms in the team...

I premade to be sure half the team knows what they are doing..since the majority doesn't ..

(this is why I suport rated pvp and rating

Requirements on gear.. Ratings are the only skill mesure available..and skill should be rewarded..not the lack of it)

No, It's like this Abraham Lincoln got shot in the head, Who's fault is it? Booth who pulled the trigger, maybe the gun or bullet?

 

Booth = premades

Gun = messed up PVP system

Bullet = PUG's

Lincoln = actual PVP

 

Premades use faulty system to dominate (Booth using a gun to get what he wants.) Eventually the majority of people will leave the game the majority are PUGS (The bullet leaves the gun because Booth pulled the trigger.) The eventuality of it is no more PVP for all because no one ques anymore. What once was good is no more because of a small group that wanted everything to be thier way (Booth (premade) wants it to be his way an no one elses because he doesn't like how the country is, he makes a plot gets a gun (the faulty PVP system) and uses it to his advantage. The bullet leaves the gun because Booth pulled the trigger forcing the bullet to leave (PUG's forced to leave because the PVP aspect is completely 1 sided and not worth playing.) Now Lincoln is dead because the minority got what they wanted (No more PUG's = longer Ques = the game bleeds out and dies.)

Cute analogy, could not agree more.

I'm of the opinion - and I realize I'm in the minority here - that there shouldn't be any back fill in WZs. furthermore, if there's more than a 2 player difference in the numbers, then the WZ will automatically shutdown. here's my rationale:

[*]you're never going to stop ppl from dropping for w/e reason - no penalties are gong to work. they never do, and they punish ppl for dcs.

[*]the person who back fills usually gets thrown into a bad situation, and he's not happy about it. he might just leave asap, which only hurts his team more and prevents/delays a shutdown

[*]if i'm on the team getting throttled, rather than a revolving door of back fills, I'd rather the WZ just end so I can get into a competitive wz

Actually thought this myself since the "Game dropping" epidemic started a few patches ago. Although I've won several games where our team was more than 300 points down, 2-3 goals down, 2-3 doors behind the opponent, I don't much enjoy these games because this only rarely happens. The vast majority of back filled games happen because that team was losing and trigger happy players jumped ship, those games just need to die out, they are not fun for the overwhelming majority. Steeper yet reasonably forgiving penalties need to be instated, something that will punish the cronic Wz dropper yet not punish poor Bob over there who's dog is on fire.

1. I am a Commando (Dps or Heals as needed, Grinded the WH being DPS)

2. I was Premading (and PuG'ing) since recruit. I managed it by being in a guild (leveled in it) and asking "Anyone for a group?

3. Sometimes there isn't a spot. Guild Groups atleast have a little loyalty to give you a spot over friends (sometimes.)

4. See 1. I am a Commando.

 

I do not mean that you in particular are "lazy" and I'm sure you put a good effort in while fighting, but there is -more- effort you can put in, and I'm sure you know it. The point I'm making is that we're not talking about victims here. PuG's are not victims. They are willing combatants (no one forced them to queue for pvp) and if they quit because the competition is too hard, then the fault for dying queue times can just as easily (if not more) rest on them, as it can on "overpowered" premaders.

No, just no, stop posting. I have never seen a more ignorant, self gratifying and blatantly wrong mentality than yours. Telling the vast majority of your player base they are "lazy" and need to play the game a certain way and only that way in order to avoid a frustrating and annoying experience is just plain childish. Being social is a choice, not requirement. Your attitude is a classic pretense to maintain something that benefits or gives an advantage to a small portion of a population mainly or only facilitating that small portion's comfort zone at the cost of the remaining population's. Telling and forcing your player base to play a certain way in an age of clear choices will only push them away from your horribly dysfunctional paradigm. While having options to go above and beyond, improve and conquer is reasonable, forcing your players into that being the only "fun" way to play will not go over well.Just stop.

I do not advocate "No Change/System Fine."

 

I am simply arguing against split brackets/solo bracket and promoting a matchmaker/flexible system. If your posts do not show you understand even the basic principles of my stance, I will ignore them from here on. If it makes it easier, I'll list them once more.

 

Nearly all my posts revolve around:

 

1. We need Matchmaking that matches based on some criteria, be it Gear Level, Highest Average Gear Level, Valor, Win/Losses, etc...

 

2. We need cross-server queue's for a healthy, more robust population that can handle the criteria restrictions.

 

3. Players should look at self-improvement as their first option.

 

Ps. Your last reply to me is one giant cluster-**** of miss managed quotes, until you fix it I won't even attempt a response.

 

While I still believe long term, a matchmaking system is needed for a healthy pvp environment, I do think if ranked had a 4 man option (I'm fine with mixed queue, I do not fear going up against an 8 man with 2 "random" 4-mans) we would also see some relief in non-ranked for our -actual- new players.

First coherent post you've made that actually makes valid points. Stick to this. Being against a Solo/Ranked Split Queue system is your opinion and right but it is clearly evident the vast majority of the player base and the game itself would benefit from it the moment it has the tools to support it (Cross Realm) stop arguing against it, the benefits of this system vastly outweigh it's costs. All we'd be losing is Pugs being roflstomped by Premades at the cost of little if any queue time increase when implemented in tandem with Cross Realm. Until then, thanks to people with your hilariously dysfunctional mentality we will have this -------->

This is a moot discussion.

 

By nature premades vs PUGS is a gross imbalance. This problem will only be underlined HEAVILY by the new WZ as premades will be better at focus fire. PUGS are gonna stop PVP'ing in despair.

 

So either BW fixes the matchmaking or the PVP population will dwindle.

Swtor pvp community lacks any type of pvp skill..the frustration when solo queuing is just too much to bare, I'm not here to teach,carry or "just play"..yes I'm an elitist jerk, but I never wanted to please everyone anyway..even when in a premade sometimes I get frustrated with the 4 randoms in the team..

Ha Ha HA filipe there is nothing elitist about you. If you'd be an elitist your stance would be somewhere on the lines " Common BW, for crying out loud, save me from the cohorts of bads that roam the normal WZs. My awesomeness can't improve while facing such nuggets."

Instead you are using the same fallacy over and over again, "Everybody should play the way I play" knowing for a fact that will not happen for a number of reasons (either they are newbies, don' have the time , don't have the mood or they don't want to put up with elitist jerks like yourself).

I remember when ranked hit the live servers. There were forming calls for Ranked teams on the general fleet chat. Now you can spend days online looking for such a call and see one as frequent as Lochness monster sightings. Guess is a hard feat to be an "elitist jerk" in the big boys league while it's way easier to be the schoolyard bully and call yourself an "elitist jerk" instead of simply a "jerk".

The fact you state that you don't care about anything else but yourself make me wonder who endures your company but I guess that will remain a mystery for me long after I've stopped playing SWTOR.

Good luck with the PvP.

not true. Before this game I never did any pvp in any game. Then for some reason I decided to try PVP in this game. When I first started playing pvp with my trooper (lvl 20) back in January I was horrible. And I was playing against fully geared 50's back then. Every warzone I entered I started learning the objectives and my class. Over time I started realizing that I didnt have to do things solo. Started noticing who were good players and I'd follow them and attack who they attacked. Seeing what they were doing. But honestly what helped me the most was quitting at 1.2 to play Tera. In Tera you cant click your abilities you have to use keybinds. This made a huge difference when I came back to SW:TOR. But I went from around a 2/10 when I started doing warzones to now I believe I am 7/10. I wouldnt have gotten better tho if I played against people who were as bad as I was.

Most bads dont believe they are bad and hence dont try and learn to be better. they just ask for nerfs or complain about gear gaps or premades or hacks.

This post should be a sticky with comments disabled

im sure the OP has gotten trolled alot for his care bearish way of stating his complaint.

it's true the PVP vets are often stomping on the low level players in the WZ's but thats just the nature of it. Yes you get leveled to have your stats match a natural 50 but your skills and gear are going to be weak. thats why all WZ's are objective oriented not kill/death. thus if your only going to be an annoyance to an oposing team. THEN BE AN ANNOYANCE.

You have to realize that you can't beat that geared vet so instead troll his *** from a distance as soon as he tries to hit an objective run up and poke him and hope that your teams vet is finishing him off.

STRATEGY boys and girls STRATEGY

Doesn't matter what month it was. He had the proper attitude then and hopefully still has it today.

People on these forums can learn a lot from that post.

It is the system itself. It doesn't matter what system you have, you will always have good players, bad players, pugs, and premades.

It should NOT be gear based. Players should be able to craft, (each sub profession, should craft certain items) in order for great gameplay to occur. Pvp items should only allow something minimum, like skin or an extra small enhancement be it stats or bonus set.

It needs to be community based in every aspect. I am not going to write six brick wall pages of how it should be, I get paid for a living.

Doesn't matter what month it was. He had the proper attitude then and hopefully still has it today.

 

People on these forums can learn a lot from that post.

If you tomorrow pick up boxing for a sport trust me it will mean a world of difference between boxing against your own level players as opposed to boxing against Vitali Klitschko. Yes agreed is about the attitude too. Being willing to acquire gear and skills is important too and I'm sure that there are people willing to do that even under the current situation but what is more important is how many are there that have the stamina to endure the current state of progression. Sadly I don't have any hard numbers but if I'd have to "guess-timate" I'd say not enough . I might be wrong of course!

I'm sorry but at this point most of people that mainly premade are mediocre players taking advantage of the low soft skill cap of this game along with their gear and party composition. Good players get bored of pugstomping. I've never seen people that were really good at pvp (not just gear and premade dependent) that could stand pugstomping for this long. I guess if your irl was really horrible then maybe you could enjoy it even as a good player but that is pretty much the only way.

Hopefully 1.6 will help a lot though. We need premade matching as well.

I'm sorry but at this point most of people that mainly premade are mediocre players taking advantage of the low soft skill cap of this game along with their gear and party composition.

If it's the mediocre players who are forming premades, then those should be mediocre premades.

What, then, is the difference between a mediocre premade and a mediocre pug? Does queing together give some sort of power boost? What exactly is the point of all of this.

Pretty sad that people want WZs to be determined not by who has the better team, but by who has the worse team.

Why are people striving so hard for mediocrity

I can't believe these people actually graduated Sith School

I feel your pain, ive been rolled by the same premade / pvp guild most of the afternoon, most people stoped queing because of this, the que times are usually around 3-5 min now there up to 15-20 min and general chat is ablaze due to this.

We need cross server ques

we also need group ques to remain in rated and solo ques to pugs, this wont be a problem if it was cross server, if you are a premade group then im sure that your leit skills wont suffer against an equally geared and matched team would it?

No, just no, stop posting. I have never seen a more ignorant, self gratifying and blatantly wrong mentality than yours. Telling the vast majority of your player base they are "lazy" and need to play the game a certain way and only that way in order to avoid a frustrating and annoying experience is just plain childish. Being social is a choice, not requirement. Your attitude is a classic pretense to maintain something that benefits or gives an advantage to a small portion of a population mainly or only facilitating that small portion's comfort zone at the cost of the remaining population's. Telling and forcing your player base to play a certain way in an age of clear choices will only push them away from your horribly dysfunctional paradigm. While having options to go above and beyond, improve and conquer is reasonable, forcing your players into that being the only "fun" way to play will not go over well.Just stop.

So basically: "I just wanna play my way >.<" *throws tantrum*

And I'm the ignorant self gratifying one. The problem comes down to people thinking that somehow PuG-centric vs. Premading (or Social Play) is somehow two sides of a coin, or should be two viable play styles. They are -not- equal, as one is a tactic, and one is a lack there of.

The commando in strength armor is playing -wrong.-

The assassin who throws themself at two defenders over and over is playing -wrong.-

The person clicking 100% of the time instead of using keybinds is playing -wrong.-

The tank who doesn't taunt (or keep aggro) on the boss is playing -wrong.-

Etc...

Yes, everyone has a "choice" of how they want to play but that doesn't mean they are the correct choice. Everyone needs to PuG now in then, and everyone has those days or two where they don't wanna be bothered. Yet if you make the choice to queue solo most of the time, you should be prepare to accept you will be teamed with plenty of idiots, or plenty of undergeared people, and that your opponents may or may not be as badly handicapped.

Stop thinking PuG-centric vs. Premade-centric are two equally viable play styles, they are not. Sin tank vs. Jugg tank is an example of different playstyles.

(Ps. In case youre wondering, this falls into my point 3 which nearly all of my posts have followed my 3 point position, or have been used to show name-calling, assumptions, and falsehoods go both ways.)

First coherent post you've made that actually makes valid points. Stick to this. Being against a Solo/Ranked Split Queue system is your opinion and right but it is clearly evident the vast majority of the player base and the game itself would benefit from it the moment it has the tools to support it (Cross Realm) stop arguing against it, the benefits of this system vastly outweigh it's costs. All we'd be losing is Pugs being roflstomped by Premades at the cost of little if any queue time increase when implemented in tandem with Cross Realm. Until then, thanks to people with your hilariously dysfunctional mentality we will have this -------->

I've post those 3 points specifically in at least 3 other posts, and pretty much every post I've made has been about 1 of those 3 posts, it really isn't my fault you haven't understood and/or read them.

The benefits for all do not outweigh the potential costs. First off, we have no accurate data on how the -majority- feel. We've had no poll, no data collection, metrics, etc... to decide what is the causing factor in players quittig/leaving PvP. It could be a number of things:

1. Gear Gap

2. Lack of Content

3. Premades

4. Economy

5. Boring Grind

6. Class imbalance

7. Faction Imbalance

8. Idiots

9. Learning Curve

10. Poor management

11. Angry Skydaddy attempting to smite ToR.

Of all those things, split brackets addresses 1, which is number 3. Meanwhile, it can cause a number of other problems:

1. No dependable backfill for group queue

2. No way to fill for partial premade.

3. No safeguards against longer queue times. If there are 15 pugs and 15 premaders in a split queue (need 16), they can sit indefinitely, effectively having 30 players who can't even -play.-

4. Potential lowering of skill. (Yep, just as PuG'ing -could- make you learn to fend better without support, it can just as easily not teach you how to deal with suported opponents, and even cause you to have no idea what to do -when- supported.)

etc...

Meanwhile, on planet Earth- games that put premades in separate queues from solo play, have ranking systems and understand some people are here for fun and some for competition are being highly successful.

Now, let's take a look at planet Bioware, where their 300 million dollar game is f2p in less than a year. Why do you 'so called' good players want to be in the same queues as the people you call baddies so badly? You know there's no competition there.

If anything, YOU are the ones who should be asking for the premade queues, and for casuals and competitive players to be separated. I see you guys saying you play because you want a challenge, you love a challenge, everyone should love a challenge- yet all you do is defend having huge gear gaps that make the game easier for you, and being able to stomp pugs into the ground without effort in your premades.

If all you want to do is get easy pug-stomping, just say so, but don't pretend you want a challenge when any time someone suggests something that would make the game actually competitive for those who want competition you fly off the handle and rage at the very thought of it.

I have a simple question, how many people would quit playing regular warzones if the queues were split, and the only one that popped regularly was the solo queue warzones?

I get the feeling the vast majority would simply suck it up, solo queue themselves and play in that bracket.

On the contrary, how many people that normally premade in the current system, refuse to solo queue when their friends are not online because they know its the only way to actually remain competitive? I'd say a majority. If all of those players are instead solo queueing because everyone is doing it, wouldn't that in turn improve queue times rather than hurt them?

I mean, I get that people want to play with their friends, but I think improving queue times and the competitiveness of warzones is more important when you want a thriving PvP community.

I premade, and I solo queue. I'd rather feel free to solo queue any time of the day and sacrifice the ability to premade, if it meant I knew the games would be 50/50 as far as how good each team is, and the pop times would be almost instant.

If all you want to do is get easy pug-stomping, just say so, but don't pretend you want a challenge when any time someone suggests something that would make the game actually competitive for those who want competition you fly off the handle and rage at the very thought of it.

Matchmaking on a criteria would make the game more "competitive" than just splitting the queue's, without any of possible negatives that split queue's bring. I wonder why that answer isn't acceptable...

And oh ya... "Pug-stomping" is more competitive than not playing at all (ie, 30-60 mnute queue times.) Really though... if you don't like being eaten, stop being a sheep.

I have a simple question, how many people would quit playing regular warzones if the queues were split, and the only one that popped regularly was the solo queue warzones?

 

I get the feeling the vast majority would simply suck it up, solo queue themselves and play in that bracket.

 

On the contrary, how many people that normally premade in the current system, refuse to solo queue when their friends are not online because they know its the only way to actually remain competitive? I'd say a majority. If all of those players are instead solo queueing because everyone is doing it, wouldn't that in turn improve queue times rather than hurt them?

 

I mean, I get that people want to play with their friends, but I think improving queue times and the competitiveness of warzones is more important when you want a thriving PvP community.

 

I premade, and I solo queue. I'd rather feel free to solo queue any time of the day and sacrifice the ability to premade, if it meant I knew the games would be 50/50 as far as how good each team is, and the pop times would be almost instant.

My friends and guildies will keep me in this game longer than any gear grind or "solo" content.

People still aren't getting it. People (Atleast for me) aren't saying "No change/system fine," what they are saying is "Split Brackets are a bad idea." Matchmaking on a criteria with safeguards to keep queue's low is the better idea, especially if it can be coupled with the player base rising to the level of the competition, rather than asking it to be lowered to them.

My friends and guildies will keep me in this game longer than any gear grind or "solo" content.

How is queueing for a warzone solo content? Solo queued or not, you're going to play with and against other players. Maybe I just don't get it.