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Are you prepared for 2.0? You still have 2 weeks to roll a sniper/slinger


biowareftw

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Macro has been reposting that for many, many months. I'm sure BW has seen it.

 

Some of us (myself included) think he's probably at least partially right, some don't. Either way, nothing will change. If he's wrong, BW shrugs - something else was to blame for the mindboggling balance changes.

 

If he's right however, and despite his pointing out the flaws, BW have continued to rely heavily on this methodology for so long, then they are utterly wedded to it. Their stat analysis has become such a sacred cow, that no matter how many people poke wide gaping holes in it, nothing will change.

 

He is at least 70% right man, we know that. Another thing we could add to his reasoning is that BW "confounds" single target DPS and AoE DPS.

 

Example? Well, a lot of people /bow to sages being "best healers in PvP high HPS bro", but forgot that a lot of the sages HPS comes from salvation, with is an PvE AoE splash spell. That severely cripples us for PvP because we look good in the numbers game but thats splash heals not counter burst heals, and we know how dominant the balance between burst / counter burst in PvP is.

 

Example 2. Smash.

 

They also seem to account for "raw" HPS / DPS numbers, not taking into account DMG taken / kills death ratio or damage per death ratio. If they did this they would see some classes are getting the shaft, merc is one of them.

 

They also, for some obscure reason, think that off heals are incredibly powerfull and taunts are not. Which is basically a flipside. Taunts are instant and cost almost ZERO resources while off-heals are neat but the DPS actually needs to stop and cast them, while also costing a severe chunk on resources.

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Nope, that's now how class rebalancing works in ToR. BW bases their class rebalancing on which class is performing best ingame. And "best" is defined using their extensive ingame stat collection system. Which is to say it is using meta average comparisons. So when a class becomes FotM, what you see is a horde of undergeared players still learning to play the class surge into warzones. This actually reduces the meta average productivity of the class and this results in BW buffing that class. This is why snipers are being buffed in 2.0. And that is why they will be further buffed in 2.1. Count on it.

 

In contrast unpopular classes such as Merc dps and Anni Mara will continue to be nerfed. Once a class gets it's first nerf, certain players leave that class. And the first to do so are the lower performing ones. The better players who can remain viable with the class tend to stay. Thus subclasses that get nerfed actually see their meta average productivity RISE. Which leads to them being nerfed again. This is what happened to operative dps in 1.1 and 1.2. This is what happened to Merc dps multiple times since 1.2. This is what has happened to Anni Mara. And this is what is going to happen in a big way to PT Pyro.

 

The bottom line here is that BW's ingame stat collection system is unable to account for player migration and shifts in player quality within a class. This has resulted in the puzzling class rebalancing choices that BW has made. But that is how class balance is managed in ToR.

 

wow :eek:

/signed

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my shadow is gonna own all these snipers :) , just because they have high dps and scare players off doesn't mean they don't have their niche and cant be defeated, .

 

People need to find their role on the field and stick

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my shadow is gonna own all these snipers :) , just because they have high dps and scare players off doesn't mean they don't have their niche and cant be defeated, .

 

People need to find their role on the field and stick

 

You are doing more in rated then solo guarding a node on a hybrid spec with a shadow? Or are you talking about unranked?

 

As a shadow my role in the field is sitting on a node, 3 v 1 people after I sap them, call for a floater. You can kill a sniper as a hybrid...but it is gonna take awhile :), and that isn't your "role".

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You are doing more in rated then solo guarding a node on a hybrid spec with a shadow? Or are you talking about unranked?

 

As a shadow my role in the field is sitting on a node, 3 v 1 people after I sap them, call for a floater. You can kill a sniper as a hybrid...but it is gonna take awhile :), and that isn't your "role".

 

Boy do I know that. Hate how sins get pigeonholed into that role where you sit around doing nothing most of the time. Like a soccer goalie. Has its fun moments but mostly standing around doing nothing. Would love to do main tank as sin rateds, worked well the few times I tried it though admittedly that wasnt against the top teams.

 

/reroll

 

- former professional node guard

 

And on topic: Sniper is my 2nd least favorite class to play, after Operative. No thanks.

Edited by Z-ToXiN
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You are doing more in rated then solo guarding a node on a hybrid spec with a shadow? Or are you talking about unranked?

 

As a shadow my role in the field is sitting on a node, 3 v 1 people after I sap them, call for a floater. You can kill a sniper as a hybrid...but it is gonna take awhile :), and that isn't your "role".

 

Snipers were fine in PTS rateds. Stacking PTs and smashers still work fine, watch the rateds from MVP and Nostrum's streams, derp.

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Another ****** - witty guide.

 

Do not use cover bar, cause you won't know cooldowns on the abilities on cover bar when you are not in cover.

 

Carnage marauder and marksman sniper are the same design, given sniper generaly designed to have more uptime. If carnage marauder has at least same uptime as marksman sniper, he will do considerably more damage.

 

Roll a sniper, roll a whatever. If you bad with everything and think rolling class Y suddenly will make you not bad, it won't help you.

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Ive been playing my sniper since day one, and i also have a lowbie sniper for some fun.

 

Now in lowbie ive come across some of these new snipers and OMG they are seriously free kills. A descent sniper has to leanr alot, every single ability more or less is needed to be a top sniper.

 

Those that have every single class more or less now rolling a sniper, u seriously think they going to be as good as them that play sniper every day more or less since day one lol

 

Making posts like this is going to cause more to actually roll what they think is a fotm class just like when smash anti posts started so now u going to have x amount of gimped snipers running around that havnt got a bloody clue since it actually takes skill to be a good sniper.

 

and as pointed out having to many snipers in a group is a group gimp. I hate pug games where theres loads of snipers an dno melee means we going to get slaughtered. although most fun game of huttball i ever had was two teams of mostly snipers, finished 0-0 anyone approached ball died lol

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Anything that has substantial points in balance/madness and has a brain should still be able to cause snipers fits I am thinking. Might as well say anything with good DOTs and a brain to use LOS.

 

And FFS I hope some of the stealthers I see leveling up figure out how to get in close undetected better than I saw this weekend. I can't tell you how many I saw coming and could hit entrench, then shoot them out and it is only gonna get worse with the increased stealth detection. Blackout and sneak or whatever works wonders, and so does not approaching from the front you bone heads.

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Well, for op lethality/scound DF, 2.0 brings 'my dot's won't wake you up' so it means sleep dart + 2 dots + how ever fight goes. (I said sleep dart, since we'r talking snipers with stealth detection).

 

snipers were always common on lowbie pvp as they bolster nice, but most people when hit 50, can't handle it, and leave snipers alone, so doubt it will be 'fotm' like 8 months of marauders domination.

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I don't know what scoundrels / operatives some of you guys have been going up against but I can assure you they had no clue what they were doing. I finish snipers / slingers with over 60 percent health normally, depending on whether hunker down was on CD and whether I cleansed sab charge in time.

 

Snipers / slingers have amazing damage and great utility, but nothing they do changes the fact that you can move 2m and force them to either:

 

A. move, negating hunker down and exposing them to leaps for a few seconds OR

 

B. Sit there and do no damage.

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Yep. Pretty much. People always say a Sniper can never win against stealth. Well. I must fight totally garbage stealthers (doubt it) cause I have absolutely no problems against them. Maybe they are a problem for MM/Leathality. But playing as Engineering, I outlast their burst.

 

Then what you have not experienced yet is when 1-2 fully maxed 20 HP stealth scoundrels have signaled you out as the person they will repeatedly kick in the back for 70% of your health per attack. You never get to fire off any of your good shots.

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Then what you have not experienced yet is when 1-2 fully maxed 20 HP stealth scoundrels have signaled you out as the person they will repeatedly kick in the back for 70% of your health per attack. You never get to fire off any of your good shots.

 

Ran into a couple trying to do this the other day. just told my team that if they see operatives on someone, use their pushes to get them off. Amazing how well that works. Especially if everyone doesn't do it at the same time and strings it together sequentially. You take the operative out of position to kill quickly and you have a dead operative.

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Anyways. This class was really fun and challenging, about a month ago, before I optimized keybinds etc. Now it is kind of boring. I have no idea why it is getting these buffs, but whatever. In before rage, blah blah. I could care less. Just saying it how it is, and wanted to help those people who may have been roadblocked to also being FOTM, due to keybinds etc.

 

I was surprised to discover how fun Sniper is to play. Due to the cover mechanic, I initially thought it would be a very static and boring class. I quickly learned that I could be quite mobile with it and the class became very enjoyable, especially in the wake of lolsmashers.

 

I'm going to enjoy my Sniper's time in the sun. I actually won't mind seeing more Snipers around since there are currently so few. For example, my guild only has three level 50 Snipers in its ranks. No doubt, a nerfbat will smack us at some point, but oh well...welcome to the MMO PvP class balancing act.

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