This thread makes me cry. Just to be clear to the OP, you should know (and it isn't hard, doesn't take a minute to figure it out) what to need. You cannot possibly think that you can need everything, because "i can trade it". You can't. Many and more of the stuff is bound to you when you pick it up, and all you can do is to sell it to vendors.

The general rule is to only need the stuff that you can wear and is actually an upgrade to you. Everything else is to be brought up and discussed in the party chat so everyone agrees to it. And no, looking at your party chat isn't too hard. You can actually make a separate chat window only for the party chat if you want. So to be clear, need if you NEED and otherwise greed.

good for you...your a paladin.

 

but swtor gives you the choice to click two buttons..... fair and square.

 

there is NO right or wrong...only what 'others' percieve as you being a cheat for doing what the game does fairly.

(who is anyone to say why or why not you need an item?, it aint thier call, and they dont know you or your character or your intentions.... but they sure do know if they lost that roll....lol)

 

this so called 'etiquette' is your own perception and moral dilemma...not the games, not any other player...... yours.

 

the game lets you do what you want.... and it's not wrong...the rolls are completely fair.

 

......unless someone doesnt win that fair roll.... and decides it's an attack on him personally and looters are ruining his life forever.

 

and start another thread about it.

 

.

Funny, cause they're changing it so that you can only roll need on things you can directly use. Source: Guild Summit comments on patch 1.2. So yes, there is etiquette while playing an MMO and dealing with loot. There has always been etiquette in this regard with MMOs dating back to the pre-WoW days (that's right, WoW wasn't the first MMO).

good for you...your a paladin.

 

but swtor gives you the choice to click two buttons..... fair and square.

 

there is NO right or wrong...only what 'others' percieve as you being a cheat for doing what the game does fairly.

(who is anyone to say why or why not you need an item?, it aint thier call, and they dont know you or your character or your intentions.... but they sure do know if they lost that roll....lol)

 

this so called 'etiquette' is your own perception and moral dilemma...not the games, not any other player...... yours.

 

the game lets you do what you want.... and it's not wrong...the rolls are completely fair.

 

......unless someone doesnt win that fair roll.... and decides it's an attack on him personally and looters are ruining his life forever.

 

and start another thread about it.

 

.

OP, please DO NOT listen to this person. This advice is atrocious! If everyone played this way, server communities would be awful.

There is etiquette and there are soft rules for how people play, because MMOs are online communities and that means there need to be rules to keep things flowing smoothly. At the very least use the golden rule -- you wouldn't want someone else taking loot you could really use just to sell it would you? Then don't do it to someone else.

This is a most bizare thread, The Need & Greed system is about as simple as it could be!

From what I can gather, you dont have the time to decide whether or not an item is a usable upgrade? So you think you should just NEED on everything?

There is always time in a FP's to make that choice, A lilttle common courtesy isn't much to ask from FP participants is it?

If you run around needing everything your not going to be making any friends.

Your comments are valid for guilds not pugs. Pugs won't listen but I'll try it next time I play. I'll probably have boot the offender and it will probably extend my flashpoints even further with my limited time but I'll try it...

Your comments are valid for guilds not pugs. Pugs won't listen but I'll try it next time I play. I'll probably have boot the offender and it will probably extend my flashpoints even further with my limited time but I'll try it...

That just isn't true. Unless the player is very new then everyone knows and understands how loot rolls work, and as a result everyone is happy when they play a flashpoint with a PUG and get a fair crack at gear. Of course the rolls themselves, and the drops, may not be in their favour but at least there isn't someone rolling 'need' on items they couldn't possibly use and simply see as vendor trash.

It may be "just" etiquette (at the moment at least) but like most things in civilised society when everyone plays the same game everyone is happy.

I've been in a flashpoint twice with people that didn't play by the rules - one was a genuine new player who just didn't understand what need/greed meant, and that was obvious the first time we had a roll and he chose 'need' on an item completely unsuitable for his class. All it took was the simple question of "Just checking, do you know the different between need/greed?" to discover this and help him. No anger, no accusations, just a question. This then led to teaching him more about the game because he also didn't know his primary stats or what class of armour he wore. It is good to get these things sorted with the very first flashpoint.

The second time it was just a ninja who tried to make excuses about pressing the wrong button (the first time), and getting confused (the second time). I had asked him the same question to check if he knew the difference between need/greed and he laughed and said of course he did. Third time we all waited to see what he'd press, and sure enough it was need on something not for his class ... so the rest of us also pressed need and passed it on to the one player in the group that it was actually suitable for. We then all left the group (he was leader), formed a new group and ran it without him.

So yeah, of course you can press any button you like but understand this is a social game - and social etiquette dictates that the buttons have (relatively) clear meanings. If in doubt ask your group. If you ignore the rules then expect to be ignored by other players once word gets around. Like farting in cars, you might get away with it once or twice but if you do it all the time then don't expect to get rides from people that know you

If I can't use it I can trade it and this is where the logic of etiquette fails. If I don't need it I can trade it...which can further my agenda...

... and that's what 'greed' means. You yourself in that sentence said 'I don't need it'.

NEED = can use it right now and better than what I have already

GREED = not something I can use, or worse than what I have already, but ofc I can sell it

so should I grab as much as I can and have people complain or let others have everything and I suffer in silence. Only a group of friendlies will be more considerate. In PUGs, you can't expect this.

But others won't 'have everything' if they play by the same rules will they? They'll also be greeding on things they can't use and so highest roll will grab it. If it is something that is an upgrade for their gear though would you begrudge them getting it? Do you consider your desire to sell it for some credits as more important than another player getting a genuine upgrade to their gear? If so, then you will have problems in the social game.

The pay-off is that when items come up that are an upgrade for *you* then you'll be able to roll 'need' and will get it above others in your party who only 'greed' it. If everyone in the party always "needs" items then looting has just come down to a die roll, and so no-one really benefits from getting their class items.

You cannot possibly think that you can need everything, because "i can trade it". You can't. Many and more of the stuff is bound to you when you pick it up, and all you can do is to sell it to vendors.

I meant sell to vendor not trade

OP, please DO NOT listen to this person. This advice is atrocious! If everyone played this way, server communities would be awful.

 

There is etiquette and there are soft rules for how people play, because MMOs are online communities and that means there need to be rules to keep things flowing smoothly. At the very least use the golden rule -- you wouldn't want someone else taking loot you could really use just to sell it would you? Then don't do it to someone else.

I agree with you, but the thing is, some folks have decided to need for everything, and no amount of sweet reason will change their minds. They have different logic.

As long as people talk it over before they group up, then people can probably at least avoid getting mad at each other about it.

Paige

I agree with you, but the thing is, some folks have decided to need for everything, and no amount of sweet reason will change their minds. They have different logic.

 

As long as people talk it over before they group up, then people can probably at least avoid getting mad at each other about it.

 

 

Paige

Well, i would immediately leave any group that had a "need on everything" policy. Solve that problem real quick.

When I'm playing this game during the flashpoints, I don't stop and look at my inventory to see what I need and don't need. I need xp not crap!! If I stop and take too long someone else will take it...this is just how it is...I grab it and sort it out at the end of the flashpoint. This interrupts the game play...the reason I'm here. I really wish they would just autoloot like COH and be done with this....

I also came from CoH, so this looting system was also new to me. While the "autoloot" system may have had some advantages, it still lacked for the same reasons.

I never had any issues with "stopping" and inspecting each item being rolled on. I either needed it or I didn't. Look at what stats on the item are being raised, that's all:

Aim = Bounty Hunter/Republic Trooper

Cunning = Imperial Agent/Smuggler

Strength = Sith Warrior/Jedi Knight

Willpower = Sith Inquisitor/Jedi Consular

"Need" based on your class. That's the simple version.

I never had any issues with "stopping" and inspecting each item being rolled on. I either needed it or I didn't. Look at what stats on the item are being raised, that's all:

 

Aim = Bounty Hunter/Republic Trooper

Cunning = Imperial Agent/Smuggler

Strength = Sith Warrior/Jedi Knight

Willpower = Sith Inquisitor/Jedi Consular

 

"Need" based on your class. That's the simple version.

and this is where some have a disparity between the "need" circumstances

some claim that while your player may not be able to you use, your companion can which in essence is you since the better gear your companion has, then better you will survive in the wild.

personally i need on things i can use and greed on things my companion can use since if it is a flashpoint i can re-run that as necessary

Need on every single thing only if you want to be...

...Server blacklisted unable to play with other players in a social mmo game, thus relegating your whole experience to a single player game with no hope of ever doing end game content, which you will continue to pay 15 bucks a month just to play by yourself.

...the butt of all jokes in general chat on your server as you are continually humiliated and made fun of for being a loot ninja

This isnt wow where the lfg tool gives you anonymity to do what you want because you will never see the people that your grouping with ever again anyway.

In this game you will only ever play with people on ypour server, you habve a name...ruin in and it ruins you...just like in real life do something considerred bad by the community you live in, you go to jail, or people will have nothing to do with you....same with the game, do something bad enough get you banned or people will have nothing to do with you.

Need on every single thing only if you want to be...

 

...Server blacklisted

...the butt of all jokes

To be fair, you're only dirt in the eyes of the need-for-use people. I'm not sure of the actual numbers of people that feel this way. And even though I'm a dedicated need-for-use-only person, I don't care if people are need-only, as long as they TELL ME first.

This isnt wow where the lfg tool gives you anonymity to do what you want because you will never see the people that your grouping with ever again anyway.

 

In this game you will only ever play with people on ypour server, you habve a name...ruin in and it ruins you...just like in real life do something considerred bad by the community you live in, you go to jail, or people will have nothing to do with you....same with the game, do something bad enough get you banned or people will have nothing to do with you.

This is the important part. Also, your legacy name and guild affiliation are critical. Some guilds actually maintain a list of folks who are meanies. Either they need-for-everything without saying so first, jump in front of people for quest objectives, are wretched in general chat, abusive in PvP, or use speed hacks. These folks get advertized and studiously ignored.

If it's your legacy name, then your whole family gets blacklisted.

Better yet, if you have a guild tag, its likely that someone will go to your GL and complain.

This is a good thing. People tend to behave when they know there will be consequences for misbehavior. Having a legacy name or a guild tag means that you can't hide, you're not anonymous, and your actions will have social consequences.

Paige

"general" etiquette would be that you would "need" items that you can use right now FOR YOU NOT your companion UNLESS you establish it before starting the flashpoint. Is it an upgrade? If it is, most of the time you would use it right now.

Most people would immediately equip an upgrade (why wait? It is better to have the new stuff now and finish the rest of the instance than struggle with lower stats)

When I'm playing this game during the flashpoints, I don't stop and look at my inventory to see what I need and don't need. I need xp not crap!! If I stop and take too long someone else will take it...this is just how it is...I grab it and sort it out at the end of the flashpoint. This interrupts the game play...the reason I'm here. I really wish they would just autoloot like COH and be done with this....

I agree, I also had the same problem yesterday. I thought that it was my loot only and not the groups loot. the tutorial doesn't mention that . I don't have the time to keep checking my character to see if its useless stuff. I want to roll through the flash point.

And on the other hand:

Don't expect for everyone to choose "greed" on every item, either. I had an Ops group last night where one person was sending me whispers after every roll complaining that so-and-so choose "need", and probably didn't, and that all people who choose "need" are $^#&^#*$^#*.

I finally kicked him.

But really... I think most people are honest about looting.

As a newbie to SWTOR and modern MMOs (I play DDO, but their loot system is entirely exclusive to each group member), I would like to remind people to not ASSUME that a person who is needing knows the precise accepted definitions of same.

For example, I was doing Esseles and I had assumed (logically in my mind) that the need button was for items you were intending to use and greed for items you were intending to sell. This makes sense right? Well in my mind an item I was going to use included by companion. Again, that makes intuitive sense. I need the item in the sense that I was going to equip it to my companion and actually benefit from it.

In any event, this fellow group member goes bonkers and starts accusing me of all sorts of heinous stuff. I told him I had no idea what I did wrong and eventually other group members explained. I said thank you for explaining, apologized, told them why I thought I had been doing it right, and we eventually moved on.

But my reminder to everyone is to not assume someone who breaks the ettiquete is a snert. He or she might simply be new to the game. So take the time to explain...especially if they are under 30th level (yes....,you can easily go into 20th level + without ever joining a group in SWTOR).

I put this post in another LOOT thread but, I'll post it here too.

I have been playing for 2 weeks now. What I usually do is examine how the party acts on the first REAL LOOT DROP. Don't make your choice till you have seen how the other players make their choice (need or greed or dissemble) on the first REAL (valuable) drop. If the proper classes choose Need and the proper classes choose Greed then you can pretty much assume everybody is going treat looting in a respectable manner:o. If everybody just clicks NEED then you can pretty much assume it's a FREE-FOR-ALL and being respectable has been thrown OUT THE WINDOW so, you should always click need and screw the team (JUST DO IT, YOU DON'T HAVE A CHOICE). HOWEVER if only one person is being a LOOT PIRATE, you need to whisper to the other player and basically plan with the other 2 players to KICK the guy.

Every now and then people do make mistakes and click on the wrong option (it happens) but, if you notice one person in particular who keeps making the same mistake choice he is probably a LOOT PIRATE trying to pull one over on you.