Yazule Posted February 8, 2012 Share Posted February 8, 2012 subscribed Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kinvalar Posted February 8, 2012 Share Posted February 8, 2012 I'm trying to make sense of the formula here and figured I would plug different skills in to help figure it out, but I can't get it to give proper results for Mortar Volley. On my character's tooltip at 49 Mortar Volley is 3303-3681. At 3 ticks that is 1101-1227 damage. His Tech Damage Bonus is 395. Standard Health Lookup table shows 1575 for a skill trained at 49, which rank 6 of Mortar Volley was. Using the formula: Coefficient * DamageBonus + StandardHealthPercentMin * StandardHealth Coefficient * DamageBonus + StandardHealthPercentMax * StandardHealth .. with Torhead readout of SpellDamage: SpellType=>Tech, StandardHealthPercentMin=>0.128, Slot=>None, Coefficient=>1.58, StandardHealthPercentMax=>0.188, DamageType=>Kinetic I took it to be: 1.58 * 395 + 0.128 * 1575 = 825.7 1.58 * 395 + 0.188 * 1575 = 920.2 825.7-920.2 using calculator vs 1101-1227 judging tooltip. Am I messing up somewhere? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
acnoj Posted February 10, 2012 Author Share Posted February 10, 2012 (edited) 1.58 * 395 + 0.128 * 1575 = 825.7 1.58 * 395 + 0.188 * 1575 = 920.2 825.7-920.2 using calculator vs 1101-1227 judging tooltip. Am I messing up somewhere? Well it's probably not a coincidence that your numbers are low by exactly a 3rd, so I'd start there. Perhaps it's 4 ticks instead of 3? Edited February 10, 2012 by acnoj Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aidank Posted February 10, 2012 Share Posted February 10, 2012 Op is an attractive person and has many friends. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kinvalar Posted February 10, 2012 Share Posted February 10, 2012 Well it's probably not a coincidence that your numbers are low by exactly a 3rd, so I'd start there. Perhaps it's 4 ticks instead of 3? Can state with absolute certainty that Mortar Volley only ever does 3 ticks of damage. Also, the formula damage more accurately estimates my damage once you account for mitigation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheRabbit Posted February 10, 2012 Share Posted February 10, 2012 (edited) I'm trying to make sense of the formula here and figured I would plug different skills in to help figure it out, but I can't get it to give proper results for Mortar Volley. On my character's tooltip at 49 Mortar Volley is 3303-3681. At 3 ticks that is 1101-1227 damage. His Tech Damage Bonus is 395. Standard Health Lookup table shows 1575 for a skill trained at 49, which rank 6 of Mortar Volley was. Using the formula: Coefficient * DamageBonus + StandardHealthPercentMin * StandardHealth Coefficient * DamageBonus + StandardHealthPercentMax * StandardHealth .. with Torhead readout of SpellDamage: SpellType=>Tech, StandardHealthPercentMin=>0.128, Slot=>None, Coefficient=>1.58, StandardHealthPercentMax=>0.188, DamageType=>Kinetic I took it to be: 1.58 * 395 + 0.128 * 1575 = 825.7 1.58 * 395 + 0.188 * 1575 = 920.2 825.7-920.2 using calculator vs 1101-1227 judging tooltip. Am I messing up somewhere? You are missing part of your DamageBonus. DamageBonus for a tech attack = Aim Damage Bonus + Tech Power Bonus + Power Damage Bonus. At level 50 those 3 together should be somewhere in the 600-700 range. Tech Power Bonus is basically just the compensation for not including weapon damage in the calculation. Edited February 10, 2012 by TheRabbit Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TempestasSilva Posted February 10, 2012 Share Posted February 10, 2012 Subscribed Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kinvalar Posted February 10, 2012 Share Posted February 10, 2012 (edited) You are missing part of your DamageBonus. DamageBonus for a tech attack = Aim Damage Bonus + Tech Power Bonus + Power Damage Bonus. At level 50 those 3 together should be somewhere in the 600-700 range. Tech Power Bonus is basically just the compensation for not including weapon damage in the calculation. The number above was the combination of those bonuses. It is higher now due to gear, but the math still doesn't work for Mortar Volley. Edited February 11, 2012 by Kinvalar Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
genesiser Posted February 11, 2012 Share Posted February 11, 2012 I have a question. Armor reduces damage of kinetic damage correct? If that's the case then why does my grav round hit for the same damage range as the tooltip says where as my sage has the damage reduced by heavy armor targets when they both do kinetic damage? Do some moves just have a bypass all armor stat attached to it? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kinvalar Posted February 11, 2012 Share Posted February 11, 2012 After some tinkering with this today I think I've figured out the problem. Mortar Volley on my Vanguard Tech Bonus Damage(combined value for Tech Skills) 479 Tooltip: 3835-4213 damage DFA on my Powertech Tech Bonus Damage 476 (closest I could downgrade his gear to for comparison) Tooltip: 2860-3143 damage The math comes out perfect for DFA using the calculation, while pointed out in thread MV seems to be off a tick. In use on multiple different mobs and friends helping me out the 2 skills do the same damage per tick. The only conclusion I can make from this is that MV tooltip thinks the skill has 4 ticks, so it calculates that, even though it is still just 3 ticks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheRabbit Posted February 11, 2012 Share Posted February 11, 2012 After some tinkering with this today I think I've figured out the problem. Mortar Volley on my Vanguard Tech Bonus Damage(combined value for Tech Skills) 479 Tooltip: 3835-4213 damage DFA on my Powertech Tech Bonus Damage 476 (closest I could downgrade his gear to for comparison) Tooltip: 2860-3143 damage The math comes out perfect for DFA using the calculation, while pointed out in thread MV seems to be off a tick. In use on multiple different mobs and friends helping me out the 2 skills do the same damage per tick. The only conclusion I can make from this is that MV tooltip thinks the skill has 4 ticks, so it calculates that, even though it is still just 3 ticks. Wow, that seems like incredibly lazy programming lol. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Clinicclinic Posted February 12, 2012 Share Posted February 12, 2012 Awesome information, so thanks for reposting and adding clarifications. Could you possibly elaborate/explain the " max(level,20) " that appears in the various formulae with diminishing returns? Is that character level, the max percent that stat can achieve, or something else entirely? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
acnoj Posted February 14, 2012 Author Share Posted February 14, 2012 Could you possibly elaborate/explain the " max(level,20) " These formula's are all written to work in Microsoft Excel, max(level,20) is an excel function. What it means is that the formula uses the Maximum of either the characters level, or 20. Therefore characters of level 20 and less use the number 20, and characters of levels 21 to 50 use their level. So those formula don't scale with level until you pass level 20. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
acnoj Posted February 14, 2012 Author Share Posted February 14, 2012 The only conclusion I can make from this is that MV tooltip thinks the skill has 4 ticks, so it calculates that, even though it is still just 3 ticks. That wouldn't be the first time people have found a tooltip mistake, make sure you bug report it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
acnoj Posted February 15, 2012 Author Share Posted February 15, 2012 Updated the surge formula today, to match the recent patch. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vaelphor Posted February 20, 2012 Share Posted February 20, 2012 (edited) nice. this was just what i was looking for. however, i'm mostly posting so i can subscribe to this thread for future references since they don't have a button or option to do it without posting yourself :/ Edited February 20, 2012 by vaelphor Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
acnoj Posted February 27, 2012 Author Share Posted February 27, 2012 Yeah I find my own thread with Google, go figure. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rufcat Posted March 16, 2012 Share Posted March 16, 2012 (edited) Thank you for posting this. I'm currently working on an Excel spreadsheet with stats relevant to my character and this has helped tremendously. Sticky this post! Edited March 16, 2012 by Rufcat Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
acnoj Posted April 11, 2012 Author Share Posted April 11, 2012 Updated 4-11-2012 for the 1.2 patch changes, thanks to Kor from mmo-mechanics.com.The only change is the Expertise formulas. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
acnoj Posted May 18, 2012 Author Share Posted May 18, 2012 (edited) Updated 5-18-2012:Multiplicative modifiers are summed then applied, e.g. +33% damage and +25% damage to an attack = +58% damage total. Edited May 18, 2012 by acnoj Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TonyTheTiger Posted September 3, 2012 Share Posted September 3, 2012 Heya first thx for posting this must have taken a lot of work to figgure it all out. Although i must confess this is waaay over my head and i pretty much have no idea what all this means So i have a question I hear ppl talk about soft caps for pretty much all stats i.e Defense, Shield, Crit, Surge and such.. and i guess they are base on the Rating of that stat and not the % of it. Do u or anyone else know if this it true and what those numbers are ? so i can try and optimize my tank and dps Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mumble_magic Posted November 20, 2012 Share Posted November 20, 2012 These formulae are really great. I'd just like to clarify something though. When you say max(level,20) what do you mean? Do you mean e.g. max at level 20, or the max at that level or 20 whichever is higher? I'm new to the theory stuff so apologies if this is a daft question. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aberd Posted December 30, 2012 Share Posted December 30, 2012 These formulae are really great. I'd just like to clarify something though. When you say max(level,20) what do you mean? Do you mean e.g. max at level 20, or the max at that level or 20 whichever is higher? I'm new to the theory stuff so apologies if this is a daft question. Max() is a spreadsheet function that outputs the maximum value in a list. In this case the list is only 2 items long. For example you have a level 12 toon, max(level,20) will output 20. Versus a level 33 toon, max(level,20) will output 33. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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