When this game was in production I remember seeing a video interview and reading a seperate news release stating that there was going to be nothing like "Expertise" in this game because it didn't make any sense. The point behind giving pvp players their own gear was to make it so that a raider couldn't walk in a dominate. I understand giving pvpers gear equal to what you'd get in a raid. I also remember someone stating that leaving expertise out of the game was a good idea so we wouldn't have to have two sets of gear to carry around.. yet ... here we are.

My main problem is with expertise. It's not with pvp gear rewards. From lvl 1 through 49 there is no expertise in the game, players have to win pvp through their own skill and teamwork...as it should be. However, a hero at 49 is quickly a zero at 50. Someone with lvl 49 epics all slotted with augments etc, hundreds of thousands of credits worth of gear goes from a good pvp player to a 1-shot wipeout.

It doesn't make any sense and isn't very "star warsy". Hell Luke wore damn near the same outfit throughout all the movies and I didn't see any expertise slots on that raggy shrit he was wearing.

I understand that you're bending your knee to the "pro hardcore" pvp'ers out there who feel that they should be granted special gear because they pvp more than anyone else or somecrap but the fact of the matter is that in time anyone can get that gear so it doesn't really matter. The two problems with that situation are #1: the players has to run countless matches where they are cannon fodder, limiting their teams abilities at the same time, until they can finally get their gear. I've seen situations where players who finally get their warhero gear stop pvp'ing because that was the goal and they are tired of pvp ... Problem #2 : if the hardcore players are so good (as I'm sure they'll post below) then why do they need the special "buff" of expertise to defend them from new 50's? If they are so good they should be able to kill us with their l337 skillz...

I've been playing and pvp'ing since pre-launch, was very bothered when I first saw expertise but i've bit my tounge this entire time. As a "founder" I can tell you that when the game first game out and noone had an advantage, pvp was epic..pure epic. Then the 50's starting getting geared and wiping the floor with us so you made a special bracket for them, which we all appreciated however the transition between those two brackets is so rough that matchs (especially pugs vs premade ranked players) are full of players complianing about how pvp is all about gear and zero about skill. With the gear advancing through ranks...over time, it's gotten out of control.

Every player who hits 50 now gets a free set of epic gear and blue pvp gear. My reccomendation is that you remove the expertise element from the game (as you orginial promised it wouldn't exist). Tell "hardcore" pvp'ers to shut up and prove how hard-core they are on an even playing field. Let the hardcore raider who's casual pvp use their raiding gear and actually be able to have fun while at the same time allowign the hardcore pvper who casually raids who their pvp gear, which is equally matched to the raider and allow them to have some fun raiding with it without getting talked to about how pvp gear is useless in pve.

In all respects, this gear crap is turning this game into another WoW where all there is to do is gear out one player so you can run a harder instance to get better gear etc etc.

SWTOR is supposted to be about story and depth not about shallow repeats of pointless runs just so you can get pretty purple bracers that grant +5 expertise more than your current and it was worth the 2 days it took you to get them...

I want to go back to actually playing SWTOR instead of logging in, sighing, and grinding.

I'm tired of hitting 50, shelving a char because lvl 50 sucks and starting another new char.

Please remove the expertise element from the game.

-Josh

To all the trolls, orcs, and night elfs...

Yes i QQ,

no i'm not mad bro

yes I got whine with my glass

and yes I think your lvl 50 pvper is crap without their shinny shield of expertise to hide behind...and you know it.

It doesn't make any sense and isn't very "star warsy". Hell Luke wore damn near the same outfit throughout all the movies and I didn't see any expertise slots on that raggy shrit he was wearing.

Why do you think he lost to a 50 Sith Juggernaut named "Vader" wearing full EWH with augments?

Why do you think he lost to a 50 Sith Juggernaut named "Vader" wearing full EWH with augments?

Luke hadn't chosen his advanced class yet. After he went Guardian in Return of the Jedi, he was able to defeat Vader. He tried Defense spec at first and it wasn't working so well, but since he's a sub he field respec'd to Vigilance.

Why do you think he lost to a 50 Sith Juggernaut named "Vader" wearing full EWH with augments?

agreed!

obviously bioware, at the time, did not understand why expertise in pvp is a good thing

now they do and wisely added it

obviously bioware, at the time, did not understand why expertise in pvp is a good thing

 

now they do and wisely added it

clearly they still dont.

SWToR is now no different at end-game than any other MMO. Should I go into and, even though i was good at it a level ago, now get smashed because i don't have the gear? Let that smashing occur until i can get the gear to then allow myself to go into arenas and get smashed just so i can then get better gear? and do all of it before another set comes out. Ya, that's fun

OR

should i run flash points so i can get gear to run heroic flash points so i can get gear to run storyline raids so i can get gear to run heroic raids? yes, that's alot of fun too....

OR

i can just make a new guy, get to level 10 and go back to when pvp was fun

Yes all of that sounds like something that's vastly different than any other MMO. Hell you may as well play counter strike because nothing you do there seems to matter either.

The point is that pvp from lvl 10 to level 54 doesn't have this handicap for those who play excessivly and yet, much to your surprise, people still play it and they enjoy it.

Why do we need it at lvl 55? what's the real reason? The apease the vocal minority who will ****** if it isn't there, for some unknown reason. They feel that, since they play so much, they should be given a hadicap so they can smash new 55's because they lack the skill to do it outright.

Remove the expertise and balance pvp gear with PvE gear. As the game was initially sold "players that want to pvp full-time and still run raids and players that PvE fulltime and want to PvP without issues now can by using the same set of gear"

one week of dailes, the weekly and some addition wzs and you full conqueror in week without even having grinded much pre 55 or having used some of the smarter methods. If that is already too much of grind, than in all honest, why would you want to pvp at all? You don't go into HMs or Nims with artifact gear either, you have grind your gear to even stand a chance in end game pve.

On top of that experise now matters less than it did a year ago, thanks to bolster in 55. Some greens can even give you next to full expertise with even better stats than conqueror.

clearly they still dont.

SWToR is now no different at end-game than any other MMO. Should I go into and, even though i was good at it a level ago, now get smashed because i don't have the gear? Let that smashing occur until i can get the gear to then allow myself to go into arenas and get smashed just so i can then get better gear? and do all of it before another set comes out. Ya, that's fun

OR

should i run flash points so i can get gear to run heroic flash points so i can get gear to run storyline raids so i can get gear to run heroic raids? yes, that's alot of fun too....

OR

i can just make a new guy, get to level 10 and go back to when pvp was fun

 

Yes all of that sounds like something that's vastly different than any other MMO. Hell you may as well play counter strike because nothing you do there seems to matter either.

 

The point is that pvp from lvl 10 to level 54 doesn't have this handicap for those who play excessivly and yet, much to your surprise, people still play it and they enjoy it.

Why do we need it at lvl 55? what's the real reason? The apease the vocal minority who will ****** if it isn't there, for some unknown reason. They feel that, since they play so much, they should be given a hadicap so they can smash new 55's because they lack the skill to do it outright.

 

Remove the expertise and balance pvp gear with PvE gear. As the game was initially sold "players that want to pvp full-time and still run raids and players that PvE fulltime and want to PvP without issues now can by using the same set of gear"

Go play single player games.

I have been playing this game since beta. I have seen every iteration of pvp that bioware has implemented. I have played it all.

The reality is, obtaining the 1st tier 55 pvp gear is the EASIEST it has ever been in this game. the prices are lower than previous game versions. And hell, Even without Conq, Bolster does work. A Pure pve gear build is brought to ~53% damage boost. (%60 is full 2018 expertise).

And ultimately, the stat separation between Conq and Obroan is the smallest jump than any other previous tiers. We are talking 5% or less stat differentials. The real grind is Obroan. the rwz com cost is the highest it's ever been for top tier pvp gear (which they did specifically to promote rwz arenas as the fastest way to get it.) For reg wz's full mk-9 aug'd shells with conq mods can compete.

In the time it took you to write the first post, OP, you probably could've played at least 2 PVP matches. ~240 coms if they were great wins, ~80 coms if they were bad losses. I'm just pointing out that, for a person with many RL comittments, why spend any game-related time on these forums? Use the time you have to play the game.

Holy necro Batman....

Anyway dear OP,

It's been explained plenty of times. The purpose of expertise is to counter raid gear. With the advent of bolster, EXP is a non issue for everyone except top tier raiders. Now there are some problems with bolster, but the playing field is already, more or less, even from a stats perspective. You don't need to grind any PvP gear to be successful anymore...

Holy necro Batman....

 

Anyway dear OP,

 

It's been explained plenty of times. The purpose of expertise is to counter raid gear. With the advent of bolster, EXP is a non issue for everyone except top tier raiders. Now there are some problems with bolster, but the playing field is already, more or less, even from a stats perspective. You don't need to grind any PvP gear to be successful anymore...

That is an exaggeration. 67 Obroan gear 4 set + waist/wrist are bis. Obroan Implants / Ear for classes with +9% main stat are bis. 1 Obroan relic too. For tanks is full Obroan. On competitive level is the difference.

That is an exaggeration. 67 Obroan gear 4 set + waist/wrist are bis. Obroan Implants / Ear for classes with +9% main stat are bis. 1 Obroan relic too. For tanks is full Obroan. On competitive level is the difference.

I didn't mention BiS in my post... I said you can walk into PVP with zero PVP gear and be competitve. The only clear PVP item is relics, everything else is pretty close.

20 Bucks says the OP doesn't even play this game anymore. NICE Necro

The guy that necro'd it is the OP.

I'll take your $20 now

okay, a couple of things. First I do still play the game, i've played since beta and will likely keep playing. As i've said, this isn't about me of my desire to make the game easier for me, it's about making the game better on its own.

Second I type these points on a 2nd computer WHILE I play, normally waiting for pvp ques.

Lastly, the only arguments ya'll seem to make is: bolster, pvp gear is easy to get and expertise beats raid geat.

If you actually read the original point you'll see that i'm not talking about removing the gear, in fact i said they should boot it to match raid gear and they can be equally as hard to get. This will hold true to their original promise that full time pvp can raid in pvp gear and vica versa with raiders.

Expertise is the issue. Not gear, not bolster, a single stat whos lack of makes pvp pre-55 awesome and post 55 a slaughter to those who don't have it.

In reguards to my opinon, i'm simply posting what i think based on questions I ask in general chat. I don't just come here and post out of emotion. If i have an idea I first ask the questoin in general chat of a few highly populated places to get the pulse of the community. Since most players and especially casual players don't post here it doesn't make me wrong. You have several players who are active in pre-55 pvp on alts who created those alts simply to pvp because they can't stand the time to kill in end game if you don't have the gear. Those players could be in end game shortening que times and adding diversity to the mix. Instead they re-roll over and over just to pvp in a place where they have fun.

How is it that bolster without expertise (pre-55) has a longer T2K, healers aren't stronger than tanks, and you won't have a lvl 54 jump a lvl 35 and dance circles around them while stun locked and dead before you can figure out what to do next. (see this is the line where a "hard core troll" will say " you need to learn how to play your class because i can blah blah") Yet post 55, with bolster and expertise is a joke?

The point is about fun for the normal player, not the hard core who plays every night and can get a full set of pvp gear in a weekend where they don't do anything else.

This is about a few facts, the gamer community is aging. Those that started in the MMO world are finding themselves will less and less free time and are leaving the games because of crap lke this. The younger generations are split between several groups but the largest that are comming out are those who enjoy instant reward and the creative types who enjoy other than MMO games. Social interaction isn't thier thing because they weren't raised being forced outside to play with friends, they had the internet. MMO's aren't a novility anymore, Call of Duty gives them the same social interaction that MMO's gave us so diversity in game types is required to survive. That's the point of the free market.

No matter how you look at it the MMO field is going to have to change to keep a certian audience and that will be a lower crowd then they wanted when they marketed their game. The hard core gamer has several to choose from while the casual gamer has few. Which is the better market? The causal gamer field puts more money into the entertainment market than the hard core because their numbers are larger. The casule gamer also tends to be a more loyal audience. Look at the gamers that stick with a game unti it's switched off, it's not hard core players.

The other option is to morph into a game that we wouldn't reconize to suit these players while alienating the rest. We've already seen that with the fixed classes that almost all MMO's now have. Where you have several toons all with their own class as opposed to one toon who can change classes. This change, in part removed a portion of the social element from the game. When compaired to games like Star Wars Galaxies at launch where, if you were a troll or a goon you couldn't run from that, one toon per server was your only option. If you were a great crafter or a good tank you were known etc etc.

Futher dumbing down is what will await if we cater to those instant reward players and soon this will be TF2 and it will die.

Again, this isn't about me, my gear or my gameplay but a single stat and it's real need, or lack thereof in game

okay, a couple of things. First I do still play the game, i've played since beta and will likely keep playing. As i've said, this isn't about me of my desire to make the game easier for me, it's about making the game better on its own.

 

Second I type these points on a 2nd computer WHILE I play, normally waiting for pvp ques.

 

Lastly, the only arguments ya'll seem to make is: bolster, pvp gear is easy to get and expertise beats raid geat.

 

If you actually read the original point you'll see that i'm not talking about removing the gear, in fact i said they should boot it to match raid gear and they can be equally as hard to get. This will hold true to their original promise that full time pvp can raid in pvp gear and vica versa with raiders.

 

Expertise is the issue. Not gear, not bolster, a single stat whos lack of makes pvp pre-55 awesome and post 55 a slaughter to those who don't have it.

 

In reguards to my opinon, i'm simply posting what i think based on questions I ask in general chat. I don't just come here and post out of emotion. If i have an idea I first ask the questoin in general chat of a few highly populated places to get the pulse of the community. Since most players and especially casual players don't post here it doesn't make me wrong. You have several players who are active in pre-55 pvp on alts who created those alts simply to pvp because they can't stand the time to kill in end game if you don't have the gear. Those players could be in end game shortening que times and adding diversity to the mix. Instead they re-roll over and over just to pvp in a place where they have fun.

 

How is it that bolster without expertise (pre-55) has a longer T2K, healers aren't stronger than tanks, and you won't have a lvl 54 jump a lvl 35 and dance circles around them while stun locked and dead before you can figure out what to do next. (see this is the line where a "hard core troll" will say " you need to learn how to play your class because i can blah blah") Yet post 55, with bolster and expertise is a joke?

 

The point is about fun for the normal player, not the hard core who plays every night and can get a full set of pvp gear in a weekend where they don't do anything else.

 

This is about a few facts, the gamer community is aging. Those that started in the MMO world are finding themselves will less and less free time and are leaving the games because of crap lke this. The younger generations are split between several groups but the largest that are comming out are those who enjoy instant reward and the creative types who enjoy other than MMO games. Social interaction isn't thier thing because they weren't raised being forced outside to play with friends, they had the internet. MMO's aren't a novility anymore, Call of Duty gives them the same social interaction that MMO's gave us so diversity in game types is required to survive. That's the point of the free market.

 

No matter how you look at it the MMO field is going to have to change to keep a certian audience and that will be a lower crowd then they wanted when they marketed their game. The hard core gamer has several to choose from while the casual gamer has few. Which is the better market? The causal gamer field puts more money into the entertainment market than the hard core because their numbers are larger. The casule gamer also tends to be a more loyal audience. Look at the gamers that stick with a game unti it's switched off, it's not hard core players.

 

The other option is to morph into a game that we wouldn't reconize to suit these players while alienating the rest. We've already seen that with the fixed classes that almost all MMO's now have. Where you have several toons all with their own class as opposed to one toon who can change classes. This change, in part removed a portion of the social element from the game. When compaired to games like Star Wars Galaxies at launch where, if you were a troll or a goon you couldn't run from that, one toon per server was your only option. If you were a great crafter or a good tank you were known etc etc.

Futher dumbing down is what will await if we cater to those instant reward players and soon this will be TF2 and it will die.

 

Again, this isn't about me, my gear or my gameplay but a single stat and it's real need, or lack thereof in game

Part of your issue is that you don't know how bolster works currently.

1. Its not like it once was. Bolster works the same in pre-55, as it does in endgame PvP.

2. Every player gets 2018EXP, +MAIN, +END from bolster. Toon level doesn't matter, Gear doesn't matter(outside of a few gear cutoffs that are well documented).

3. Outside of relics and SOME set boni, Entry level PvP gear is irrelevant at endgame because everyone has 2018EXP(more or less).

4. TTK is shorter because people, for the most part, know what the hell they are doing and they have a full complement of talents/skill tree points. Lowbie is some of the most unbalanced PvP.

Read the stickies.

 

1.) the only arguments y'all seem to make is: bolster, pvp gear is easy to get and expertise beats raid gear.

 

2.) If you actually read the original point you'll see that I'm not talking about removing the gear, in fact i said they should boot it to match raid gear and they can be equally as hard to get. This will hold true to their original promise that full time pvp can raid in pvp gear and vice verse with raiders.

 

3.) Expertise is the issue. Not gear, not bolster, a single stat who's lack of makes pvp pre-55 awesome and post 55 a slaughter to those who don't have it.

 

4.) In regards to my opinion, I'm simply posting what i think based on questions I ask in general chat.

 

5.) The point is about fun for the normal player, not the hard core who plays every night and can get a full set of pvp gear in a weekend where they don't do anything else.

 

6.) Again, this isn't about me, my gear or my gameplay but a single stat and it's real need, or lack thereof in game

1.) Because it's all true...I've gone into pvp in full pve gear at 55 and had full expertise and near equal stats to conqueror pvp gear. The gear gap just doesn't exist anymore. And pvp gear IS easy to get.

2.) Removing expertise and making pvp gear equal to pve gear would absolutely piss off the pve community. I don't think you realize just how livid they would get. Hell, the entire reason why pvp gear is no longer the same rating as pve gear like it used to be was to keep pvp gear from being used in pve. PvP gear goes up to 67 right now. PvE gear is up to 78's. I've seen marauders in full 78's with almost 40k hp. Full 67's min/maxed barely breaks 31k.

3.) Expertise exists in lowbies (its called bolster), and gear can make a difference. People who don't have full set of gear (i.e. missing helmets no relics or earpieces/implants) will not have full expertise. Which is partly why the 10-29 bracket is such a kill fest as bolster is all over the place. The other reason is because some classes lack stuns/defensive abilities.

The only people who think TTK is ok in lowbies are the ones are in the 40's and have their entire tree built and pretty much all their abilities at their disposal. When I was leveling my Pyro PT I was near unkillable in the lowbie brackets as I kept my mods updated in my gear and I had all my abilities. I was easily taking on 4 people and destroying them because they were all in their 30's lacking proper talents, proper abilities and proper defenses to deal with me. I could go to an off node and 100% knew I was going to take it unless they sent the entire team at me. 2-3 people would come and I would just roll over them and take the node. Lowbies are far more unbalanced than anything at 55.

4.) lol general chat. You realize general chat is 90% trolls right? That is the last place you ask anything.

5.) So you think hard core players just have no right then huh? We should all just sit in a corner and do nothing? We're not allowed to have any fun? Also, shut the hell up. Seriously, I'm sick and tired of people thinking that "hardcore players" means they have no lives. I'm 28 years old, have a college degree, I've lived and traveled most of Europe for several years and I also lived in Japan for several years and I still managed time to enjoy MMO's and I still consider myself a hardcore gamer. Some people enjoy the gear grind and the progression style of MMO's. People who don't enjoy it doesn't mean they are casual, it just means they don't like that. News flash, MMO's just arnt for you.

6.) No, its 100% about you. If it wasn't you wouldn't have made this post in the pvp forums nor would you have bumped your almost year old thread in the general discussion forums.

Raansu,

Personally I have a hell of lot more fun in the 10-30 bracket or 30-54 bracket than I have ever had doing the 55 thing.

Now granted last time i tried lvl cap pvp wz's, after begging boring and stealing every purple item modification I could find for my level, it was over a year ago. It was not a pleasant experience.

Maybe i dust off my marauder and test your evaluation

is this the new cool thing to do? complain about expertise?

The cool thing to do is to complain about things that will never change. So ya, premades, expertise....etc...

gotta love how, even though it's not world of warcraft, you can still find trolls all over the place.

who are you to say "it's never gona change" i've seen MMO's make larger changes with no reason. It's up to the devs, not you. Thus the post.

gotta love how, even though it's not world of warcraft, you can still find trolls all over the place.

 

who are you to say "it's never gona change" i've seen MMO's make larger changes with no reason. It's up to the devs, not you. Thus the post.

They are not going to redesign an entire gear system. It's not going to happen, get over it.