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Xethis
10.28.2012 , 04:37 PM | #10
Feels like you are just blindly defending your position because you were offended that I did not agree with your assessment on the best spec ever. Since you want to quote and flame everything I say, I think I might do the same. For a smart guy you sure do say alot of stupid things.
Quote: Originally Posted by EatenByDistance View Post
I know what the spec is and breaking Madness and not getting Creeping Terror isn't worth more Maul damage. You lose out on a root (essential in Huttball/in general as it doesn't fill any resolve) for the ability to inconsistently do some more Maul damage.
It is definitely more damage. If you take Creeping Terror out of your rotation you gain a global, that global is going to be filled by another Thrash 95% of the time. The extra Thrash combined with the increased crit damage from Maul is consistently more damage than a full Madness build. Ive parsed this many times and every single time the Mad Maul spec comes out 50-100 dps more than a full Madness spec. Try it for yourself. Secondly, I am not just trading Creeping Terror for increased Maul, I am also trading for Darkswell which is the only reason that Mad Maul can be successful in pvp. Yes, increased Maul and Darkswell are miles above a mediocre dot. Lastly on this subject you make a claim that upping my cirt damage on Maul by 30% is inconsistent damage increase, even though your spec completely revolves around inconsistent damage increase with your Crackling Blast talent. Its ok for you, but for me its a bad decision?

Quote: Originally Posted by EatenByDistance View Post
Factoring in crits and the fact that Surging Discharge is internal damage, it isn't significantly more. More? Yes. But for a burst spec no. And if you don't want to worry about having major burst then just play full Madness.
On average a Lightning Discharge dot will crit 2-3 times out of its 8 ticks, that accounts for 4k damage, Ive parsed this several times. Your Surging Discharge will crit for 4k-5k damage(depending on your static charge count) Which is barely more. Two thirds of those are going to do less than half of that. The majority of the time your Discharge will hit in the 2k range and has a long cooldown. Lightning Discharge is good for 4k damage every time and is spammable. How can you use any logic at all and still come up with the opinion that Surging Discharge is better is just beyond me.


Quote: Originally Posted by EatenByDistance View Post
You're hitting some very undergeared players if your Death Field crits for that much. Given that this guide aims to help at the highest level of gameplay, that is an unrealistic number. And I have the math to back it up. Let's say Death Field's base damage is about 2,000 and you have 75% surge. Factoring mitigation you will be critting most classes for several hundred less. And sure, your death field crits are great and it is internal damage, but having Shock/Discharge crits that hit for as much while still having Death Field as an ability severely outclasses your spec and will outdamage it.
Those numbers were taken directly from the tooltip. I factored in what my damage would be with DF crit 2011X1.96 (76% surge+20%) equals 3941 that is before resistances or expertise. If I had the Crackling Blast talent Shock would crit for 1589X2.26 (76% surge + 50%) equals 3591, that is before armor mitigation. Shock hits a single target and is mitigated by armor and expertise so the number will be way less. DF hits 3 targets at range and is only mitigated by resistances and expertise. You are way off on your DF damage.

Quote: Originally Posted by EatenByDistance View Post
Setup for all this stuff takes too long, explained below. In theory it can do comparable damage, in application it doesn't work out against good players.
This one made me laugh a bit. I do not see how Thrashing twice for a Raze proc is any different than you Thrashing Twice for 2 stacks of Induction. Even according to your own guide for this spec you open up with DF, Thrash Twice Shock then Discharge. I open up with DF also, the only difference is I Discharge up front then I Thrash for Raze. Technically I am one global behind you until you finally use your Discharge then we are both on par. Funny though cause like, about half the time my Raze procs on my first Thrash, and that gives me more burst than you cause I can use Crushing before you can Shock, lol. Seriously, quite often my initial DF and Discharge will proc my Exploit Weakness talent, and Maul can proc Raze. Almost half of my openers I get a hard hitting Maul and Raze before I even Thrash once, lol, long set up hahahaha!

Quote: Originally Posted by EatenByDistance View Post
This arguement pertains more to Madness as a full spec anyways, which will obviously have some okay self-healing in a sustained encounter. But it is still jack **** compared to 6% damage reduction, 25% damage reduction from Blackout and lower cd on Force Cloak. So yes, I do win this round. Thoroughly.
I give you the nod on something and you flame me anyways. I also take advantage of Darkswell as much as possible so you talking about that 25% damage mitigation is pointless. Even with just one dot, I figure I get 2-3% health back every single time I cast Discharge, I also benefit from the health I get back from my Crushing ticks which if used with with Recklessness is usually 4-5 of those ticks at 1% each. It adds up plenty in long drawn out skirmishes.

Quote: Originally Posted by EatenByDistance View Post
This just isn't really an issue at all, having nothing to do to stop healers or BHs is just plain wrong so I don't really know how to respond. I can't even really give an example. Even in high level PvP against the best guilds on my server this just doesn't happen. I deal with it just fine. And if you wanted better control from range Darkness hybrid with Pull or full Madness are better anyways so I really, really don't see your point.
You don't see my point? It isn't an issue? So if some one pops up 20m away and starts healing your target you just keep going? When a BH is casting Death From Above that is outside your 10m stun you just let him continue casting? You must have some awesome teammates that can take care of all those adds for you. If the ball carrier is 20m away and running away from you, you have absolutely 0 ways to stop them. You are a Terror inside of 10m, but out side of that you are completely useless, its only a matter of time before your team realizes they are stronger with out you. Having a 30m mez is absolutely amazing in pvp and the uses of this ability is countless. I even tried giving you the benefit of the doubt that Low Blow is equal to an instant Whirlwind but your trying so hard to discredit everything I say that you are not taking the time to think about what you say before you say it. To say that all the healers and ranged dps out side your 10m is not an issue and you deal with them just fine is just retarded. Keep sprinting to them one by one and let me know how that works out for ya.


Quote: Originally Posted by EatenByDistance View Post
I've already tried your spec and many variants of it. In a sustained encounter you are sacrificing Creeping Terror for some more Maul damage. That is really, really terrible. In any small skirmish it takes way too long to set up. You need to Death Field for deathmarks, Discharge for dots, Shock for increased damage and then Thrash/Maul for Raze procs. All that crap takes WAY too long against ANYONE with half a brain and you will be dead thrice over before it works. In theory your spec can work and I realized this before 1.4 hit, but in application it is just impossible to set up. I can not emphasize this enough-the setup is far too unrealistic. And even if it did work, you need to reapply all the stuff for every new focus target. TAKES WAY TOO LONG either run full Madness and do your support/sustained DPS or play a burst. Trying to get the best of both worlds just makes you mediocre at both.
Again claiming my spec takes too long to set up is an outstanding indication that you obviously have not tried this spec out. Taking Creeping Terror out of the rotation is an increase to dps if you have Induction talents, you would know this if you actually parsed it. 50% proc rate is usually 2x to get it to proc. That means half the time it procs off of my first Thrash, reducing my set up below your beloved spec. How you figure that this spec has a long set up compared to you having to use 2x Thrashes for your Induction stacks is hilarious.

Quote: Originally Posted by EatenByDistance View Post
No offense, but if you have success using this you're just fighting bad players who aren't taking advantage of your ridiculously long setup.
Offense taken, you are blindly defending your spec with out actually doing the math on the rotations of Mad Maul. We basically execute the same amount of globals in about 10 seconds, with basically the same abilities, and all of the Mad Maul abilities will hit harder than yours. You claim to have more burst but you don't, you have the same rotations with weaker abilities. Actually do the math bro.
Quote: Originally Posted by EatenByDistance View Post
p.s. while some light theorycrafting and spec discussion is all well and good, trying to argue your spec over mine when you openly admit to not having even tried my spec (much less extensively played with both for weeks at a time like I have) yet is really not a good idea. at all
Theory crafting and discussion is all good, until I questioned your spec and you started flaming me for some very valid points. Open your eyes and your mind will follow.