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10.28.2012 , 03:25 AM | #9
Quote: Originally Posted by Xethis View Post
seems like alot of wasted points just to get Death Field crits.
It is. Which is why my spec is better because you can take good talents to get Shock/Discharge crits (two abilities critting harder is much better than one critting less hard)

I guess the spec that I have been using for pvp and pve is the Mad Maul spec, coined by Sookster. Its a Madness rotation only your Mauls hit really really hard. So I do apologize for the misunderstanding and I did not mean to discredit you by any means.
I know what the spec is and breaking Madness and not getting Creeping Terror isn't worth more Maul damage. You lose out on a root (essential in Huttball/in general as it doesn't fill any resolve) for the ability to inconsistently do some more Maul damage.

First, Discharge in Lighting Charge is significantly more damage than the Discharge from Surging Charge, its been proven many times.
Factoring in crits and the fact that Surging Discharge is internal damage, it isn't significantly more. More? Yes. But for a burst spec no. And if you don't want to worry about having major burst then just play full Madness.

Second, you compared your Shock to my Death Field based on the last few points spent in each tree. You claimed that it is far more beneficial to have 50% crit on Shock than it is to have 20% on DF. Based off the actual talent points spend then you would be correct. But with my current stats my DF will crit for 3941.
You're hitting some very undergeared players if your Death Field crits for that much. Given that this guide aims to help at the highest level of gameplay, that is an unrealistic number. And I have the math to back it up. Let's say Death Field's base damage is about 2,000 and you have 75% surge. Factoring mitigation you will be critting most classes for several hundred less. And sure, your death field crits are great and it is internal damage, but having Shock/Discharge crits that hit for as much while still having Death Field as an ability severely outclasses your spec and will outdamage it.

Third, in all honesty I believe the ability used by Mad Maul that more closely is compared to your Shock is my Raze. As far as frequency they are used about as much, you need two stacks of Induction, I have a 50% proc off of an ability. My first Raze proc most of the time will proc with in my first two Thrash's. As far as frequency during a fight we will both average two on just about every encounter. And just like with Discharge, it has been proven time and time again that Raze is more damage than Shock even with your 50% crit bonus.
Setup for all this stuff takes too long, explained below. In theory it can do comparable damage, in application it doesn't work out against good players.

Fourth, your added damage mitigation vrs my heals. 6% extra damage mitigation is much better than 1% chance heals on a 1v1 hands down. The heals however can pull ahead in a long drawn out battle where my dots can be spread around and I am constantly getting 1% back from roughly 35% of my dot ticks. In the end I still believe that you will mitigate more damage over all than I will heal so you definitely win this round.
This arguement pertains more to Madness as a full spec anyways, which will obviously have some okay self-healing in a sustained encounter. But it is still jack **** compared to 6% damage reduction, 25% damage reduction from Blackout and lower cd on Force Cloak. So yes, I do win this round. Thoroughly.

Fifth, our utility, Low Blow vrs instant Whirlwind. All the points you made were solid. Low Blow can be used far more frequently with far less affect on resolve. So on a single target or a duel Low Blow will be more beneficial. However our Electrocute was knocked down to 10m and in your current spec you have 0 skills that can stop a third party healer, or a BH/Trooper unloading on you from range. You have to eat it, I don't. I stand firmly that these two abilities are equal to each other given that each are used for completely different scenarios.
This just isn't really an issue at all, having nothing to do to stop healers or BHs is just plain wrong so I don't really know how to respond. I can't even really give an example. Even in high level PvP against the best guilds on my server this just doesn't happen. I deal with it just fine. And if you wanted better control from range Darkness hybrid with Pull or full Madness are better anyways so I really, really don't see your point.

Your spec does sound very appealing and I will definitely give it a try. I might come back to this post in a week or so completely changing my views lol. You should do the same, I think you might have a very nice surprise to see how bursty Mad Maul can actually be.
I've already tried your spec and many variants of it. In a sustained encounter you are sacrificing Creeping Terror for some more Maul damage. That is really, really terrible. In any small skirmish it takes way too long to set up. You need to Death Field for deathmarks, Discharge for dots, Shock for increased damage and then Thrash/Maul for Raze procs. All that crap takes WAY too long against ANYONE with half a brain and you will be dead thrice over before it works. In theory your spec can work and I realized this before 1.4 hit, but in application it is just impossible to set up. I can not emphasize this enough-the setup is far too unrealistic. And even if it did work, you need to reapply all the stuff for every new focus target. TAKES WAY TOO LONG either run full Madness and do your support/sustained DPS or play a burst. Trying to get the best of both worlds just makes you mediocre at both.

No offense, but if you have success using this you're just fighting bad players who aren't taking advantage of your ridiculously long setup.

p.s. while some light theorycrafting and spec discussion is all well and good, trying to argue your spec over mine when you openly admit to not having even tried my spec (much less extensively played with both for weeks at a time like I have) yet is really not a good idea. at all
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