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Disappointed about so-called "New In Game Barber-Shop"


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I have to stop you right there. There is a fourth way of obtaining Grade 7 spaceship parts:

 

4. Bought on the GTN from players who spent cash in the Cartel Market, and are flipping it for in-game credits.

In the case that players no longer buy these items off of the Cartel Market and sell them on the GTN, crafters are a backup plan.

 

That's the implied forth way of getting these items: GTN. I do believe Bioware miscalcuated the value these items would settle at on the GTN (which, if I recall correctly, was incredibly cheap). The market wizards saw a giant opportunity and the price dropped like a stone.

 

These players undercut the market to less than 20% the cost of the raw materials. I know of no crafter that stayed in the Grade 7 ship parts market after this. And I know of MANY that had been looking forward to adding these to their crafting repertoire prior to this point.

 

Do you realize it wasn't even worth it to craft parts for friends just for the materials. The friend could sell the 4 molecs it would take to make ONE part and use the money buy ALL SIX parts off the GTN.

 

Some developer spent time thinking about crafting Grade 7 spaceship parts. Schematics were made and priced. Material lists were worked out. Do you get it? Somebody actually spent time thinking this was a good idea to add to the game. These schematics were rendered irrelevant 15 minutes after 1.6 dropped.

 

Heck, the spaceship parts didn't even have a 36-hour resale lockout. Buy 'em, list 'em, bang!

The crafting method is more to acknowledge the crafters than give them an amazing new market. In the case that players no longer buy these items off of the Cartel Market and sell them on the GTN, crafters are a backup plan.

 

Lowering the materials would defeat the purpose of the craftability of these items, which were more of a backup plan to the Cartel Market anyways.

 

My ability to respond to your questions with quotes from my original post leads me to request you read the entire post, because my personal feeling is...

I have to stop you right there.

You stopped yourself there too :p

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Wut? Ok, I cant make any sense of that

The stuff I mentioned is available for direct purchase with in-game creds but not for resale on the GTN. This is exactly how I would like this shop to be, an option between in-game creds and CC's

 

*sigh*

 

Me - You'll be able to buy it with credits on the GTN

You - You don't know that! What if it's not tradeable?!?

Me - Which things from the Cartel shop aren't tradeable?

You - Legacy unlocks! I can buy those with Cartel coins but I can't trade them!

Me - That's because you can buy them with credits directly unlike the appearance change

You - Yes! I want to buy appearance change with credits!

Me - You'll be able to buy it with credits on the GTN

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*sigh*

 

Me - You'll be able to buy it with credits on the GTN

You - You don't know that! What if it's not tradeable?!?

Me - Which things from the Cartel shop aren't tradeable?

You - Legacy unlocks! I can buy those with Cartel coins but I can't trade them!

Me - That's because you can buy them with credits directly unlike the appearance change

You - Yes! I want to buy appearance change with credits!

Me - You'll be able to buy it with credits on the GTN

 

And youre missing the essence here that regardless of whether or not I can buy it on the GTN, someone still has to buy it on the CM and THAT is an issue

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And youre missing the essence here that regardless of whether or not I can buy it on the GTN, someone still has to buy it on the CM and THAT is an issue

 

Yes, just like someone has to craft something that you can't craft before you buy it from the GTN, and someone has to loot something you haven't looted before you can buy it from the GTN. The point is, you'll be able to buy it with credits. I don't know why the original source of the item you're purchasing matters to you as a purchaser. I get 700 coins per month for the same sub fee I've always been paying. I can get the appearance token and sell it to you. Neither of us have paid real money for it. Or, I can buy the unlock with real money because I've spent my free coins on something else, Bioware gets extra cash to help develop new content and you can STILL buy the item with credits, all the while being able to grin with smug satisfaction that you stuck it to the man by not spending any real money on the appearance change.

Edited by DaRoamer
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And youre missing the essence here that regardless of whether or not I can buy it on the GTN, someone still has to buy it on the CM and THAT is an issue

 

Finally, a core belief is stated, with which I flatly disagree. No... it isn't a problem. Someone will be greedy enough or stupid enough to buy it on the CM and resell it on the GTN. If more people think they can do that too, more will, and the price will drop. Being one of those stupid and/or greedy people is your choice (and while I may have chosen words which sound biased against that idea, I am not actually. I simply couldn't find better words :p). The fact of the matter is that there will be players who will resell on the GTN. Then you can buy for credits. If you don't want anyone buying off of the CM, as your post indicates, well... that's simply not your call to make. Players can make their own decision, and I do not see the logic in disagreeing with something that will benefit you (them buying off of CM and reselling means you can buy with credits, which you have stated you want to do).

Edited by idnewton
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My ability to respond to your questions with quotes from my original post leads me to request you read the entire post, because my personal feeling is...

 

You stopped yourself there too :p

*sigh*

 

I actually did read your post. All the way to the tippy tippy mostest end, even!

 

Okay, since you consider that your original response addresses all of my points (which is doesn't in my estimation), let me narrow down to one specific part.

The crafting method is more to acknowledge the crafters than give them an amazing new market. In the case that players no longer buy these items off of the Cartel Market and sell them on the GTN, crafters are a backup plan.

Let's pretend this is true. Let's pretend that Bioware wasn't trying to give crafters a new market. Let's just say that their intention was to "acknowledge the crafters"

 

Now let's go back to one of the points I made:

Do you realize it wasn't even worth it to craft parts for friends just for the materials. The friend could sell the 4 molecs it would take to make ONE part and use the money buy ALL SIX parts off the GTN.

How is this an acknowledgement of crafters? "We know you like to craft stuff, so here's something you can craft that requires a lot of grinding to learn how to do, a lot of expensive materials, oh, and we're going to let players with lots of disposable income undercut you"

 

I see that you're willing to concede "I do believe Bioware miscalcuated the value these items would settle at on the GTN" and yet you find fault with every suggestion to balance the situation, and consider that everything ended up fair, just and logical.

 

That an entire set of crafting added to the game was rendered completely obsolete through the Cartel Market.

 

This is not an idea borne of a developer that loves the game and crafting and wants it to be made fun and interesting and useful. This is an idea borne of a someone trying to make a profit at the EXPENSE of gameplay.

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*sigh*

 

I actually did read your post. All the way to the tippy tippy mostest end, even!

 

Okay, since you consider that your original response addresses all of my points (which is doesn't in my estimation), let me narrow down to one specific part.

 

Let's pretend this is true. Let's pretend that Bioware wasn't trying to give crafters a new market. Let's just say that their intention was to "acknowledge the crafters"

 

Now let's go back to one of the points I made:

 

How is this an acknowledgement of crafters? "We know you like to craft stuff, so here's something you can craft that requires a lot of grinding to learn how to do, a lot of expensive materials, oh, and we're going to let players with lots of disposable income undercut you"

 

I see that you're willing to concede "I do believe Bioware miscalcuated the value these items would settle at on the GTN" and yet you find fault with every suggestion to balance the situation, and consider that everything ended up fair, just and logical.

 

That an entire set of crafting added to the game was rendered completely obsolete through the Cartel Market.

 

This is not an idea borne of a developer that loves the game and crafting and wants it to be made fun and interesting and useful. This is an idea borne of a someone trying to make a profit at the EXPENSE of gameplay.

I'm sick and tired of my internet connection dying as I post, making me rewrite my entire posts...

 

To summarize what I attempted to say before my internet bonked me on the head, I already stated that crafting was a backup, not a significant market. Biometric Crystal Alloys are dirt cheap on the gtn, and Stabilizers will follow with the new endgame crafting mats coming in 2.0. Thus, it may be viable to craft these items if players are no longer buying them off of the Cartel Market to resell onto the GTN.

 

The reason I find fault in the suggestions is because I was asked to. I stated that I could find logic in nearly all of Bioware's actions and you, in short, said 'bring it on.' So I did :p Perhaps you do not agree with their choice of weighing the flaws as more important than the suggestions themselves, but it is a developer's choice and such final actions do not have to be justified by further logic, per se. Logic provided them with two relatively balanced options, and they chose not to change anything (which is the more resource-conservative choice).

 

In short, I do not believe Bioware ever intended for Grade 7 ship gear to be a significant crafting platform. After all, if it was... why would there only be two craftable pieces, hmm? :)

 

 

PS: I'm tired and probably missed some essential piece of information that was in my original post attempt which made this all make sense. If so, feel free to tell me so, because I probably did.

Edited by idnewton
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I'm sick and tired of my internet connection dying as I post, making me rewrite my entire posts...

 

To summarize what I attempted to say before my internet bonked me on the head, I already stated that crafting was a backup, not a significant market. Biometric Crystal Alloys are dirt cheap on the gtn, and Stabilizers will follow with the new endgame crafting mats coming in 2.0. Thus, it may be viable to craft these items if players are no longer buying them off of the Cartel Market to resell onto the GTN.

 

The reason I find fault in the suggestions is because I was asked to. I stated that I could find logic in nearly all of Bioware's actions and you, in short, said 'bring it on.' So I did :p Perhaps you do not agree with their choice of weighing the flaws as more important than the suggestions themselves, but it is a developer's choice and such final actions do not have to be justified by further logic, per se. Logic provided them with two relatively balanced options, and they chose not to change anything (which is the more resource-conservative choice).

 

In short, I do not believe Bioware ever intended for Grade 7 ship gear to be a significant crafting platform. After all, if it was... why would there only be two craftable pieces, hmm? :)

 

 

PS: I'm tired and probably missed some essential piece of information that was in my original post attempt which made this all make sense. If so, feel free to tell me so, because I probably did.

Fair enough, you were responding to a challenge to find logic in those events.

 

I suppose my objection isn't that the decision is illogical, it is that the logic is such that it benefits the short-term bottom line, at the expense of the players. Such logic is usually associated with "marketing executives" not "game developers"

 

As a software developer myself, it hasn't been uncommon to see a product get corrupted by an executive making short-sighted decisions. In one notable case the failure was so spectacular, it resulted in the business having to lay off 50% of the employees (with the executive in question getting "fired" with a million dollar severance package). I'm sure he was crying all the way to the bank.

 

When I listen to the crowdfunding pitch from Chris Roberts and Brian Fargo (game developers I personally respect), they make specific mention of what happens when short-sighted publishers get in the way of game development and how happy they are to obtain funding without such strings attached.

 

EA doesn't have a sterling reputation. I find it hard to believe that similar events wouldn't happen in that company Every. Single. Week.

 

It's not that adding the spaceship parts aren't logical. It's just that it is logic is founded in greed. When you so casually tossed off this statement:

...

 

My general experience with Bioware has been that there is some kind of logic behind what they do, even if most cannot see it.

 

...

It seems quite blind to me.

 

I believe that there are ways the Cartel Market can be used that are good. I also believe there are ways the Cartel Market can be used that are short-sighted and greedy. I also believe that the Cartel Market is making money for EA hand-over-fist, and absolutely nothing I say will make the slightest bit of difference to them.

 

And yet, I still wish to argue against the Cartel Market being misused.

Edited by Khevar
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I still wish to argue against the Cartel Market being misused.

Our opinions of misuse differ, and this, most likely, is the core of our disagreement.

 

I doubt either of us is going to convince the other to change their mind, though, so I suppose we'll just have to leave it at that :p

 

 

PS: In the case that you do want to know my definition of CM misuse, it is simply this: Honor your promise, keep P2W out of CM and all will be good.

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Our opinions of misuse differ, and this, most likely, is the core of our disagreement.

 

I doubt either of us is going to convince the other to change their mind, though, so I suppose we'll just have to leave it at that :p

 

 

PS: In the case that you do want to know my definition of CM misuse, it is simply this: Honor your promise, keep P2W out of CM and all will be good.

Fair enough.

 

My definition of misuse is: "Putting things in the Cartel Market that will make cash for EA at the expense of making gameplay worse"

 

This definition is flawed, because it relies on a highly subjective opinion. Namely, is something "making gameplay worse". The ship materials stand out to me as one facet of gameplay (crafting ship parts) that was made worse by selling ship parts on the CM.

 

I also have a philosophical objection to the Cartel Packs, because it's an easy-cash-money-grab that depends on people buying RNG loot drops. Why not sell individual items in the CM direct? Because a fool and his money are quickly parted. "Just one more pack ..." makes a ton of bucks for EA.

 

Because if this, I fear that it will be easier to add more RNG loot drops in the CM rather than doing meaningful development. Note that this is simply a fear of this happening. I have no evidence, nothing I can document. I merely assume that every Marketing Executive is a greedy money-grubbing bastard with no hope of being a useful member of society. This is based on every Marketing Executive I've ever had the displeasure to meet personally.

 

If the Cartel Packs were removed from the CM, it would remove temptation from the worst of the people employed to manage SWTOR.

 

But as I said before, this isn't likely to happen, seeing as how many players are just thrilled to throw money at EA for the privilege of a random chance of getting something they want.

Edited by Khevar
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I also have a philosophical objection to the Cartel Packs, because it's an easy-cash-money-grab that depends on people buying RNG loot drops. Why not sell individual items in the CM direct? Because a fool and his money are quickly parted. "Just one more pack ..." makes a ton of bucks for EA.

 

...

 

But as I said before, this isn't likely to happen, seeing as how many players are just thrilled to throw money at EA for the privilege of a random chance of getting something they want.

If you like this game, want to see it continue and want to continue playing it you should be happy about both of these points. Because the People throwing money at EA are paying for your 2.0 patch and expansion comming out... How soon we forget that this game was in the toilet just a year ago, and hemorrhaging funds. Developers quitting, getting fired left and right, and it looked like it wouldn't last a year. SWTOR wasn't meant to go free to play, it needed to because the subs could not and still cannot sustain it. That cash shop that everyone hates so much is what is paying for the Gree event you enjoyed and all the content that came with that content patch, and the upcoming patches as well.

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That cash shop that everyone hates so much is what is paying for the Gree event you enjoyed and all the content that came with that content patch, and the upcoming patches as well.

The way the CM is currently managed is not a sustainable business model. It's currently alienating many otherwise happy subscribers, particularly the people who don't agree that required expenditure of CC's is a good thing. The more EA pushes on that, the more people are going to drop their subs. Preferred status, while a nice step up from pure F2P, is really a very poor experience, so those people are very unlikely to stick around. Population will plummet again which will convince more people to leave.

 

The CM should feature new cosmetic only items but it should not be the exclusive or even near-exclusive vehicle they're introduced. Some exclusivity is acceptable, total is not. Since the release of the CM, they've effectively turned their backs on crafters and the incentive vendors (CE, et. al.). And some of the items (Gold Scalene, Revan's, Life Day) should have been obtainable via IG means.

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The way the CM is currently managed is not a sustainable business model. It's currently alienating many otherwise happy subscribers, particularly the people who don't agree that required expenditure of CC's is a good thing. The more EA pushes on that, the more people are going to drop their subs. Preferred status, while a nice step up from pure F2P, is really a very poor experience, so those people are very unlikely to stick around. Population will plummet again which will convince more people to leave.

 

The CM should feature new cosmetic only items but it should not be the exclusive or even near-exclusive vehicle they're introduced. Some exclusivity is acceptable, total is not. Since the release of the CM, they've effectively turned their backs on crafters and the incentive vendors (CE, et. al.). And some of the items (Gold Scalene, Revan's, Life Day) should have been obtainable via IG means.

 

They ARE.

 

I'm not sure why some people cannot comprehend this basic truth but the cash shop system that Bioware implemented absolutely allows for this to happen. 99% of the items that you get from the Cartel Market are tradeable and therefore sellable. There have been almost no items that you could buy on the CM that I wasn't able to acquire with credits. I have been able to get everything I have wanted from the CM without spending ANY real world money. Now, I have actually spent money. When the last set of packs came out I topped up the 2500 free coins I had with the 5500 CC pack and bought a hypercrate of the new packs. I got most of the stuff I wanted and sold what I didn't want and was able to the buy the items I was missing from the packs.

 

It's no secret that subs alone were not keeping this game on solid financial ground. The move to free to play and the addition of a cash shop was required to keep development of the game going. However instead of making items on the CM bound to you, thereby forcing people who want any item from there to pay for it if they ran out of free coins, they made all the items BOE. This allows them to make money from people who don't have the time or desire to accumulate lots of credits in game and just want to pay real cash for the items they want while still making all those items available for those don't wish to spend real money and simply use in-game means to generate the credits required to purchase them from the GTN. Are the items cheap? Sometimes no, but that is the case with everything. You think if Revan's mask was an in-game drop that it would part of a fetch quest and not a rare drop from an Op that would cost millions in trade?

Edited by DaRoamer
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If you like this game, want to see it continue and want to continue playing it you should be happy about both of these points. Because the People throwing money at EA are paying for your 2.0 patch and expansion comming out... How soon we forget that this game was in the toilet just a year ago, and hemorrhaging funds. Developers quitting, getting fired left and right, and it looked like it wouldn't last a year. SWTOR wasn't meant to go free to play, it needed to because the subs could not and still cannot sustain it. That cash shop that everyone hates so much is what is paying for the Gree event you enjoyed and all the content that came with that content patch, and the upcoming patches as well.

Do you think that the Cartel Market could not support the game if it had direct sale items for everything inside the Cartel Pack?

 

Are you trying to argue that the only way for the CM to make this game profitable is to bank on the "just one more ..." foolishness of people with disposable income?

 

What if Bioware had to put things in the Cartel Market that people were willing to throw money at INSTEAD OF RNG LOOT DROPS?

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They ARE.

You are willfully misinterpreting what people mean by "available via IG means", please stop. Due to their nature, those specific items should have been available as mission awards. Just because they can be put on the GTN it doesn't guarantee it will (Med Probes anybody?) or that they'll be reasonably priced.

 

Some people want to spend real world cash for their toys, other want them via achievements instead. Buying things off the GTN means I know how to grind credits which really ain't much of an achievement esp. once you hit 50.

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If you like this game, want to see it continue and want to continue playing it you should be happy about both of these points. Because the People throwing money at EA are paying for your 2.0 patch and expansion comming out... How soon we forget that this game was in the toilet just a year ago, and hemorrhaging funds. Developers quitting, getting fired left and right, and it looked like it wouldn't last a year. SWTOR wasn't meant to go free to play, it needed to because the subs could not and still cannot sustain it. That cash shop that everyone hates so much is what is paying for the Gree event you enjoyed and all the content that came with that content patch, and the upcoming patches as well.

 

Every time I see this response I always think of this picture in my head. Subscription money goes in, pays for everything development wise. CM money goes in and is pocketed.

 

That may very well be what they do and you have no basis to say that it doesn't nor do you have the basis to assume what you said above.

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You are willfully misinterpreting what people mean by "available via IG means", please stop. Due to their nature, those specific items should have been available as mission awards. Just because they can be put on the GTN it doesn't guarantee it will (Med Probes anybody?) or that they'll be reasonably priced.

 

Some people want to spend real world cash for their toys, other want them via achievements instead. Buying things off the GTN means I know how to grind credits which really ain't much of an achievement esp. once you hit 50.

 

I'm not misrepresenting anything. Most of these items were specifically designed for and financed by the cartel market. Bioware has a cartel team who's sole job it is to create unique content for people to spend money on because this is a big part of their business model at this point. You simply have to accept that as fact, MMOs in general are moving in this direction. Now, the vast majority of the items of interest to subscribers are cosmetic and vanity items. You have plenty of vehicles and armor that are only available from achieving things that you can show off. Since clearly your interest in these items is because of vanity I don't buy the excuse that you'll only appreciate them if you "earned" them. You should be thankful that other people are willing to spend money on these items to help support the game while you still have access to them because Bioware made all the CM items BOE.

Edited by DaRoamer
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Do you think that the Cartel Market could not support the game if it had direct sale items for everything inside the Cartel Pack?

 

I cannot even pretend to understand what the money marketing team and financial advisors have to deal with with the mess that is SWTOR. We know it cost a lot of money, more than any other game has ever cost, even with the low end estimates the development costs of this game put it at 50% more costly than the runner up. We also know that the game tanked hard and quickly. They were/are hurting for money and that's all I know for certain.

 

Are you trying to argue that the only way for the CM to make this game profitable is to bank on the "just one more ..." foolishness of people with disposable income?
No, Im saying that as you said this is a very profitable approach (of course it is) and someone in the financial advising department thinks so as well. and that money is going to the development of the game.

 

What if Bioware had to put things in the Cartel Market that people were willing to throw money at INSTEAD OF RNG LOOT DROPS?
It would mean less money going to EA. Would it mean enough money going to EA to keep development on the game? Perhaps. I cant say either way. But I do know without the nickle and dime CM we wouldn't be playing SWTOR today.

 

Every time I see this response I always think of this picture in my head. Subscription money goes in, pays for everything development wise. CM money goes in and is pocketed.

 

That may very well be what they do and you have no basis to say that it doesn't nor do you have the basis to assume what you said above.

That very well may be... While I wouldn't say it is split like that but you bet your *** they are pocketing more money than they put into development. You do realize that while the developers may be making this game because they love making games and making us happy. The producers, and heads are in it to make money right? If they are not making money they will not continue to support the game. It is not unheard of for the investors (producers) to make over 5 times their investment back from the game. Big games are a business, If you want the personal companies that are just looking to make their playerbase happy you need to look to the indie market. The big corporations are looking to double triple and quadruple their investments. Meaning for ever 1 dollar of development cost they want 4 dollars back. If the subs pay for development and the CM pays for the producers to keep fronting the cash for the team to keep making the game... what is the problem?

 

Do you honestly think they will keep investing their time and money into a game that gives out exactly what they put in? That's not how business works. The moment they stop making a percentage on top of their money, or foresee a time when they wont make anything at all is the day the servers shut down. there are some developer/producers that break this mold. (I believe NCsoft let COH stay up for years though it was just about breaking even.) But this is far from the norm.

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...

 

It would mean less money going to EA. Would it mean enough money going to EA to keep development on the game? Perhaps. I cant say either way. But I do know without the nickle and dime CM we wouldn't be playing SWTOR today.

 

...

(emphasis added by me)

 

I'm stunned that you are an apologist of this practice.

 

I posit that it is possible to put a variety of interesting and useful things in the Cartel Market, that will generate the same revenue of the Cartel Pack RNG-loop-drop inanity. It requires intelligence, it requires creativity, it requires forethought, it requires surveying fans, it requires abilities found in good game designers.

 

On the flipside, it is cheap, easy and lazy to toss another Cartel Pack on the market with more rare loot.

 

I'm not lobbying for the Cartel Market to shut down or to stop making money. I'm lobbying for the corporate-suit-mentality to take a hike and have the team be forced to come up with worthwhile alternatives.

 

My pleas on this subject will never be heeded by EA. They're making money hand-over-fist with the cheap, easy, no-effort solution. Why should they work harder? But I'm still going to bring it up anyway.

 

I'm disappointed to run into someone whose standards are such that they not only defend this, but claim it's the only way the game was saved from oblivion.

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I posit that it is possible to put a variety of interesting and useful things in the Cartel Market, that will generate the same revenue of the Cartel Pack RNG-loop-drop inanity. It requires intelligence, it requires creativity, it requires forethought, it requires surveying fans, it requires abilities found in good game designers.

 

On the flipside, it is cheap, easy and lazy to toss another Cartel Pack on the market with more rare loot.

 

I'm not lobbying for the Cartel Market to shut down or to stop making money. I'm lobbying for the corporate-suit-mentality to take a hike and have the team be forced to come up with worthwhile alternatives.

/applause and /signed

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Do you honestly think they will keep investing their time and money into a game that gives out exactly what they put in? That's not how business works. The moment they stop making a percentage on top of their money, or foresee a time when they wont make anything at all is the day the servers shut down. there are some developer/producers that break this mold. (I believe NCsoft let COH stay up for years though it was just about breaking even.) But this is far from the norm.

 

That's correct, but you can never assume about the finances of a business. LOTRO is making content on a lot less revenue( three expansions since they went F2P). So to say that they are only able to make content because of the CM is a silly assumption. It has always been my opinion that this game was a success and it would of continued to be a success even when the subscriber numbers dropped to 500-700k. Which is still a crazy amount of revenue.

 

EA is the one who pushed SWTOR to come out 4 months before they should of which made them drop their entire engine they specifically made for the game, a bunch of content they were in production of(including a whole other ops) and a bunch of other things. I guarantee EA pushed the CM just because they are greedy not due to any signs of this game failing. And I wonder if a lot of the team in BW disagreed with this route and were put away for it. People back the CM for saving the game when they have no solid facts about if it truly was needed to save it in the first place. I will continue to have my opinion that everything placed in the CM takes away from the growth of the game just because it;s the easy way. Instead of actually developing of sort of content that is included (IE lore, ingame questlines etc) they just make it unlockable for money and call it a day. It makes money, but it dampens game growth which is sad. And the fact that they have all this revenue and a relatively small expansion to show for it means they aren't putting a big chunk into development.

 

That's all my assumptions and possibly don't hold any truth as well. But continuously blasting people over it that they are wrong and the CM is a godsend could just be as wrong as the speil everyone else puts out.

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This is complete..

 

 

Garbage...

 

 

Screw you EA.

 

 

 

Welcome to the typical gamers of this generation,

"LETZ BUYZ A RECOLORZ SO COOL!"

 

The gamers today will keep buying this crap, and the devs will keep releasing this crap.

Games today, look at Call of Duty, no matter how much the game was exactly as the previous people still spend 60$ on an expansion every year.

 

Lets look at the Madden Franchise. Back in the day 2k Sports was competing in the NFL game franchise made HUGE numbers over Madden. Madden was 50$ as ESPN Football was 20$. ESPN Football had better simulation and better graphics and WAY better gameplay. After two years, EA noticed this loss and decided to buy out the NFL Franchise making it impossible for any other gamers to find a Football game they like. NOW, lets look at the history of Madden ever since this update. CHEAP PIECE OF CRAP, every year... Not one damned game is good, they take out features and add them in and call them NEW. Guess what? Since this is the only NFL Football game, if you want to get your NFL fix you HAVE to purchase this game, NO MATTER WHAT? Guess what that also means? They can keep releasing this crappy quality piece of crap, and PEOPLE WILL STILL BUY IT! These 14 year old gamers will just buy anything that sits in front of them, we can't stop companies DUE TO THESE GAMERS.

 

No matter what we do, Bioware/EA are going to try and usher these people who spend more money and completely throw all the others in the dirt.

 

What ever happened to game devs where expansions were free, content was free, and things were actually added into the game? Good bye Old Gen Gamers, lets usher in the new that will spend all their moneyz on digital crappy content forcing a dev to basically focus on these new gamers and let their games become a ****** piece of crap.

 

What ever happened to the Old School Gamers?

Thats what made dev's actually work towards improving a game.

 

Now gamers comes in, spend ridiculous amounts of money on stupid content, and it pretty much forces companies to go this method, because most companies such as EA only care about the revenue.

Edited by PunisherAS
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(emphasis added by me)

 

I'm stunned that you are an apologist of this practice.

 

I posit that it is possible to put a variety of interesting and useful things in the Cartel Market, that will generate the same revenue of the Cartel Pack RNG-loop-drop inanity. It requires intelligence, it requires creativity, it requires forethought, it requires surveying fans, it requires abilities found in good game designers.

Im not saying it's right or that this is how it should be done. but I do understand that this is how it is done and this is not only in the video game industry. this is what entertainment business is. You next lines sums it up perfectly.

 

On the flipside, it is cheap, easy and lazy to toss another Cartel Pack on the market with more rare loot.

 

I'm not lobbying for the Cartel Market to shut down or to stop making money. I'm lobbying for the corporate-suit-mentality to take a hike and have the team be forced to come up with worthwhile alternatives.

 

My pleas on this subject will never be heeded by EA. They're making money hand-over-fist with the cheap, easy, no-effort solution. Why should they work harder? But I'm still going to bring it up anyway.

 

I'm disappointed to run into someone whose standards are such that they not only defend this, but claim it's the only way the game was saved from oblivion.

Only way to make money? No definitely not. Fastest easiest way to make money? Oh yea! And when you are dealing with the juggernaut EA sometimes that is the saving grace of a game. They make fast easy money games constantly, and people that have followed their actions for years know they are not above running a good game into the ground because it isn't generating enough revenue.

 

I'm happy they are at least being upfront with us and letting us know exactly what is going on. All cosmetics will be in the CM. Everything else will be in game. Awesome! We are paying for the game with our vanity. And for things that don't matter to the game.

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...

 

Only way to make money? No definitely not. Fastest easiest way to make money? Oh yea! And when you are dealing with the juggernaut EA sometimes that is the saving grace of a game. They make fast easy money games constantly, and people that have followed their actions for years know they are not above running a good game into the ground because it isn't generating enough revenue.

 

...

I do understand your viewpoint.

 

Let me also say that my biggest fear is the money-grubbers doing something such as vetoing the VA budget for continued class quests because it "doesn't have a good enough return" and instead add easy money Cartel Packs.

 

Time will tell.

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This is complete..

 

 

Garbage...

 

 

Screw you EA.

 

 

 

Welcome to the typical gamers of this generation,

"LETZ BUYZ A RECOLORZ SO COOL!"

 

The gamers today will keep buying this crap, and the devs will keep releasing this crap.

Games today, look at Call of Duty, no matter how much the game was exactly as the previous people still spend 60$ on an expansion every year.

 

Lets look at the Madden Franchise. Back in the day 2k Sports was competing in the NFL game franchise made HUGE numbers over Madden. Madden was 50$ as ESPN Football was 20$. ESPN Football had better simulation and better graphics and WAY better gameplay. After two years, EA noticed this loss and decided to buy out the NFL Franchise making it impossible for any other gamers to find a Football game they like. NOW, lets look at the history of Madden ever since this update. CHEAP PIECE OF CRAP, every year... Not one damned game is good, they take out features and add them in and call them NEW. Guess what? Since this is the only NFL Football game, if you want to get your NFL fix you HAVE to purchase this game, NO MATTER WHAT? Guess what that also means? They can keep releasing this crappy quality piece of crap, and PEOPLE WILL STILL BUY IT! These 14 year old gamers will just buy anything that sits in front of them, we can't stop companies DUE TO THESE GAMERS.

 

What ever happened to game devs where expansions were free, content was free, and things were actually added into the game? Good bye Old Gen Gamers, lets usher in the new that will spend all their moneyz on digital crappy content forcing a dev to basically focus on these new gamers and let their games become a ****** piece of crap.

 

What ever happened to the Old School Gamers?

Thats what made dev's actually work towards improving a game.

 

Now gamers comes in, spend ridiculous amounts of money on stupid content, and it pretty much forces companies to go this method, because most companies such as EA only care about the revenue.

 

Times have changed and the gaming industry is huge compared to when i was younger. I have in past posts defended the idea that profit is NOT evil, and all business needs profit.

 

The real problem is EA's business practice (push out content fast and unfinished).. What developer company, game or franchise have they (EA) not ruined?

 

They have no idea what customer service or a quality product is... That is where EA is bad!

 

The CM is nice to an extent... I like some things in it, do not like others... like selling +41 crystals. Items that improve stats should never be in the CM, that should be EARNED stuff through game play.

 

I love this game, even if it was rushed... but it will be the last EA mmo I will ever play, because I know how much better it could be if EA cared about QUALITY. I am not even sure I will buy anymore EA single player games, unless its used for $10, many of their unfinished titles are barely worth more. if EA built cars, it would arrive missing parts, that's a FACT!

 

I remember back when small development companies would wow us, companies long gone, like Microprose.

 

times have changed and the "corporation" era is here for good until we are all bled dry of our money... Well, if the government does not take it first.

 

the poster is so correct about Madden football... EA will not get anymore of my money once I am done with TOR, lucky for them, its Star Wars and BW was involved (KOTOR 1 and 2 creators many of us love), but do not think for one second EA, that if you do another SW game, that I would even think about buying it. The day EA ever goes out of business, I hope I am alive to see it, so I can celebrate!

Edited by Themanthatisi
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