I love when people pretend that group ranked is relevant. It was completely dead throughout season 11. I predict it will get played by a few decent teams in the first few weeks of season 12. Then the decent teams will start dodging each other, and the queues will die rather quickly...again.

Naive. It will be first weeks decent team playing and then wintraders queueing against their friends/guild mates geting easy top spots while decent teams get nothing

One final point. Krea, if you really want to see 4s you should come SF with your team. Most of the players in ur screenshots have NA toons. And its not like it is that taboo for EU players to come NA. NA players have been going EU for years now.

Ouh oh what makes sf better than EU? Both tr and sr is much more active on dm than sf and you can check season 11 leaderboards for that. Let people play where they want to play

Yep healer balance is very off now.

Merc has the best defs, mobility and burst healing now.

 

Please buff the other healer classes or nerf merc healer.

Preferebly buff because nobody likes nerfs

Are you a sorc healer? Sorc Heals were OP for almost a decade... now other healers are on par with sorc heals and you ask for a nerf.... interesting.... btw a lot of Merc HPS (numbers) coming from DCDs do not forget that.

Btt:

I agree with Kre'a healing is way too low compared to DPS.. i mean TTK was way too high in the past but now....

the main problem I have is there doesn't seem to be a way to realistically keep up. Like most classes will hit multiple abilities in the 50-80k range while I'm over there hoping my heal will crit for 40k because the 20k non crit just isn't effective. I had a regs match the other day where I healed 10k hps and took over 7 million damage. I don't mention that to brag or because I think that is some super high number, quite the opposite actually. It's to point out that there is just sooo much damage being pumped out right now, healers are less and less effective at even being a stalling method anymore, let alone contributors. I know one of the best bg mercs on the server (with relative certainty, I've yet to see one better) and one of his highs is a bit over 15k in regs. More often than not, there will be a dps matching that and a second dps not far behind.

 

It's the age old discussion that's been going on in this game for years. one side thinks that a healer should die to a single dps while the other states that if a healer goes down against a single dps, what's the point of bringing one at all? just being another dps and it's a net gain.

I feel the same way right now about DPS being a bit overtuned compared to healing output. I have actually had people die on me where I am spamming heals and it's sometimes just not enough.

I made the recommendation to look at commando healers for pvp since they're really well adapted to being a damage sponge. I find now I must roll with high casting immunity as protection because being able to spam healing now is such a necessity.

Are you a sorc healer? Sorc Heals were OP for almost a decade... now other healers are on par with sorc heals and you ask for a nerf....

I play both and before 6.0 merc and sorc were equaly good in pvp and pve.

In Ops (depending on the boss) both had their advantages.

I have a friend who mains merc heal in pvp and he was a beast in 5.0 and basicaly unkillable and is even more so now. Sorcs were not op.

Now with the moving rapid scan tactical, mercs are op.

And I don´t want them to get nerfed. I want the others to get buffed.

Healers should do 1,5 more healing than the dps do damage. Else why bring a healer?

I play both and before 6.0 merc and sorc were equaly good in pvp and pve.

In Ops (depending on the boss) both had their advantages.

 

I have a friend who mains merc heal in pvp and he was a beast in 5.0 and basicaly unkillable and is even more so now. Sorcs were not op.

Now with the moving rapid scan tactical, mercs are op.

What tacticals does he use, what gear set do you know? For the merc healer.

What tacticals does he use, what gear set do you know? For the merc healer.

At the moment Concentrated Fire and Running Rapid Restoration.

But hes trying to get Apex Predator to test it.

At the moment Concentrated Fire and Running Rapid Restoration.

But hes trying to get Apex Predator to test it.

Thank you.

I always played my merc healer in regs for fun, always set his utilities up with DCDs being the focus. Sometimes I would even run a spec without the moving scan just to fortify his defenses more but in the end, merc healer was always easily stoppable no matter what utilities you picked for 4s.

Versus decent dps I always found the class too easily shut down when tunneled, and also when multiple targets were hit I never had enough healing to keep anyone up especially when all it took was one well-timed interrupt to wreck the mercs healing rotation.

I always liken my merc to a poor wildebeest getting slowly dragged down to it's death by a pack of DPS (lions.) That's how it always felt, a pack of DPS hanging all over my merc as he tried to heal and move around enough to not be a standing still target, which he was often due to so many stand and cast heals.

My problem with sorcs are the bubble heal seems good for boosting healing numbers up but does it really do much? Seems to me one half hit from any dps pops the bubble (Static Barrier.) I'd like to see bubbles you can put on others that actually withstand damage.

Also, I actually preferred when we got power regen by dumping health. Sure, it was dangerous but that adds strategy too. I like getting a large amount of power for heals at the cost of lower health, not this power regen system they got for sorcs now.

Basically when I need power I just spam the instant ability (Consumption) to get my power and don't worry one bit if my power regen is slowed after using Consumption. Thing is that's a lot of HPS compromised when using that ability over actual heals.

As for Sorc Static Barrier, it just seems over the years it has not been scaled appropriately compared to the DPS abilities. Seems that's the case now with healers in general, they are not scaling with the DPS equally from past iterations, at least sorc and ops healers if it's true merc heals actually is strong now.

Tanks could be in the same boat, if all BW did was mostly focus on DPS, well tanks probably got the short end of the stick, too.

As for results in group ranked? That will trickle into other facets too, though. These low performances of healers in ranked will also be experienced in PVE, and regs PVP too once everyone is geared and knowing what tacticals to run and gear sets. That's why it's important to note these issues as soon as they come up. Time will prove if Krea's concerns are valid, but he's always posted only when sure of what he is experiencing so I doubt this issue of weak heals and tanks is mistaken on his part.

Madness has decent damage, but it’s too squishy to be playable against good players. Lightning does just as much, if not more, cleave damage and is much tankier. There’s just no real advantage to running madness.

Sadness, but thank you.

1. Versus decent dps I always found the class too easily shut down when tunneled, and also when multiple targets were hit I never had enough healing to keep anyone up especially when all it took was one well-timed interrupt to wreck the mercs healing rotation.

 

2. My problem with sorcs are the bubble heal seems good for boosting healing numbers up but does it really do much?

 

3. These low performances of healers in ranked will also be experienced in PVE, and regs PVP too once everyone is geared and knowing what tacticals to run and gear sets.

1. When focused no healer stands a chance. We all go down trying to heal (dark infusion can be interrupted too).

2. The bubble shield ca. 10 k and if busted heals for 9,700 k. Thats ok I think compared to the merc bubble.

3. I hope they buff sorc and oper. DDs do 18 - 20 k dps, healers should be able to outheal them ...

1. When focused no healer stands a chance. We all go down trying to heal (dark infusion can be interrupted too).

 

2. The bubble shield ca. 10 k and if busted heals for 9,700 k. Thats ok I think compared to the merc bubble.

 

3. I hope they buff sorc and oper. DDs do 18 - 20 k dps, healers should be able to outheal them ...

From a numbers standpoint that does seem more than adequate with 9700 heal.

I guess I recall other games where a "bubble" actually is noticeable, whereas on this game sorc heal bubbles pop as soon as they are hit offering no real protection instead it seems to serve more as a buffer for incoming damage not so much of a "barrier" as they call it. A barrier would actually hold up and be a bit more difficult to break but I digress.

If DPS are that effective now, I don't even see why people bother with a tank or even a healer for that matter. Maybe in regs a healer would be fine, I mean asking a regs team to assist one another to take out a healer rarely happens so dealing with overtuned DPS probably isn't quite as daunting as it is in ranked or granked.

Why not just go with 4 stealth, plan who to attack, make quick work of them then exit combat to rinse and repeat? Seems far easier and less complicated to do this. If this turns out the best way to win, people will do it I have no doubt. That would be sad if ranked ends up nothing but stealth versus stealth battles. I can see it, though.

[quote=Lhancelot;9792663

1. ]From a numbers standpoint that does seem more than adequate with 9700 heal.

2. If DPS are that effective now, I don't even see why people bother with a tank or even a healer for that matter.

3. Why not just go with 4 stealth, plan who to attack, make quick work of them then exit combat to rinse and repeat?

1. Healing 9.700 is the best case, the worst case is 0. It heals less the more you heal the target.

2. Thats why I want healers to be buffed. And guard removed from dps maybe?

3. People are already doing that. That´s why we need change

Naive. It will be first weeks decent team playing and then wintraders queueing against their friends/guild mates geting easy top spots while decent teams get nothing

Well yes, that will likely happen too to some degree. Those kind of matches clearly wouldn't count toward "alive" status.

Now this is just regs since I haven't gone into ranked (not that I am a good ranked player). I don't have augments since I can't afford them but my highest healing in a regular match was just over 15k hps. Whereas, I have seen multiple merc healers reaching 18-19k. I am not even close to matching that. They did have the new augments but even if I had them, it wouldn't jump my heals that much. Also, I die so quickly that I have to port or bubble immediately with any focus. When everyone's regular hits are 20kish with upwards of 70-80k, I usually only average around a 35-40k crit (that is with 1.8s heal). So ya, we can stall a bit but one good dps can own my face and keep me out of the game. Highest operative healer I saw was over 16k but I don't see many of them.

Honestly you just cc the healer and take out someone, since heals can't keep up with focus. Merc healers can survive lots longer because of their cooldowns since they can crit themselves for over 110k. So you ignore them and burst someone.

In solo ranked, it honestly will mostly be all merc healers. It is really gonna come down to how good the dps is at focus. And I agree with most ranked being stealthers.

I know - in this area my opinion doesn't really matter as I am not a hardcore pvp'er, but I wanted to add

+1 vote to buff sorc heals and to remove guard from dps (which never made sense).

For me, the numbers are pretty simple. Granted, I do not have MK-11 augments and not every single amplifier is tuned towards healing. In MK-10 augmented 306 gear hear are my current maxed crit heals: Healing Trance around 45K, Deliverance around 30K, Benevolence around 21K. Compare these to the crit hits of 40 - 80K. And this is before one has to worry about normal pvp stun lock or having to deal with multiple dps or the poorer resource management, etc. If a healer can't even keep up against one average level dps (nevermind top level dps), then why even bother with pvp?

Which, I think, is the whole point. IMO Bioware wants to get healers out of pvp and this is just their back-handed method of doing this - so while I hope for a buff (as I think this is a PVE issue as well) I am not expecting one (especially anytime before end of the year).

Just my two cents, I will now return to my PVE centered world...

 

I have a friend who mains merc heal in pvp and he was a beast in 5.0 and basicaly unkillable and is even more so now. Sorcs were not op.

Now with the moving rapid scan tactical, mercs are op.

I topped HPS records and Overal heal on 3 different servers with my Mandoheal in the 5.x era... i think i know exactly what a merc heal is capable of...

Sorcs were not OP... are you serious? That is why almost all teams played with sorc heals in Team ranked in 5.X because they were NOT superior to other heal classes...sure....

only cerasi and katrinka played Operative heal... durwell+asana(sometimes)+me played merc/mando heal in TR on malgus.... and literally all other teams played with sorc/sage healer.... but yeah sorc were not OP....

Someone did the math based on 1gb of combat logs, and apparently sorc abilities heal for over 30% less relative in 6.0 compared to 5.9. How did this not get noticed earlier?

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/619219465757917214/645397529072107551/Seer_healing_5.9_6.0_comparison.txt

I topped HPS records and Overal heal on 3 different servers with my Mandoheal in the 5.x era... i think i know exactly what a merc heal is capable of...

 

Sorcs were not OP... are you serious? That is why almost all teams played with sorc heals in Team ranked in 5.X because they were NOT superior to other heal classes...sure....

 

only cerasi and katrinka played Operative heal... durwell+asana(sometimes)+me played merc/mando heal in TR on malgus.... and literally all other teams played with sorc/sage healer.... but yeah sorc were not OP....

Operatives were the meta healer 5.x after those hefty sorc nerfs. Nearly everyone played pressure and Operative had a much better matchup into that then post nerf sorc did. Sorc was playable but you were just gimping your team against pressure comps.

Operatives were the meta healer 5.x after those hefty sorc nerfs. Nearly everyone played pressure and Operative had a much better matchup into that then post nerf sorc did. Sorc was playable but you were just gimping your team against pressure comps.

i agree that everyone played pressure comps....but the meta healer ... come on cerasi and katrinka played them and those guys are very good on it... i have not seen an operative healer who was good enough to play in TR besides those players i mentioned before... operative healer were squishy as hell... in my opinion the hardest healer to play... and that is why only a few people were capable of playing them in TR but those are very good players....

rest were all sorcs... deny it or not your decision... but it is the truth...

Iam not talking about Solo Ranked btw Solo Ranked is too random (class combos, different player skill levels and so on)

but it is a fact that merc heals were literally not existent in TR... but yeah maybe we see an influx of TR and Merc heals now... and if that happens we can talk about nerfs....

i agree that everyone played pressure comps....but the meta healer ... come on cerasi and katrinka played them and those guys are very good on it... i have not seen an operative healer who was good enough to play in TR besides those players i mentioned before... operative healer were squishy as hell... in my opinion the hardest healer to play... and that is why only a few people were capable of playing them in TR but those are very good players....

 

rest were all sorcs... deny it or not your decision... but it is the truth...

 

Iam not talking about Solo Ranked btw Solo Ranked is too random (class combos, different player skill levels and so on)

 

but it is a fact that merc heals were literally not existent in TR... but yeah maybe we see an influx of TR and Merc heals now... and if that happens we can talk about nerfs....

No no I don’t think mercs need to be nerfed at all, it’s nice that they’re finally top tier in pvp. I just want the other healing classes to be brought up to that level. Sorc is so far behind that it’s just kind of depressing. No heal class needs nerfs right now.

I love when people pretend that group ranked is relevant. It was completely dead throughout season 11. I predict it will get played by a few decent teams in the first few weeks of season 12. Then the decent teams will start dodging each other, and the queues will die rather quickly...again..

Not even that, as you could see here, the PVP community on DM has no problem to make 2 teams that fight each other for hours and gain rating. This way they just secure top spots and they are fine. This is how team ranked will be abjused again, like every season.

Your findings are right, healers do need buffed. Sorc heals suffered the most out of every class.

Bioware really messed up this time.

Your findings are right, healers do need buffed. Sorc heals suffered the most out of every class.

Bioware really messed up this time.

Do you know how much mercs and sorcs parse in 75er content?

I went into Meridian hc, pulled 2 add groups and parsed with my sorc.

I healed 15 k (no andrenal and only single target), with group heal it should be a bit higher.

When my merc is full equipped I´ll parse with him too.

Thank you Krea for doing this. Yes healers will suffer a lot in the new 6.0 meta unless something is done.

I leveled my Scoundrel this weekend and I agree that Sages/sorcs seem to be the most easy to kill and are the weakest. of the trio. A 30% on average HPS more to DPS want cut it in team ranked. What was it in 5.9/10 50% more?

As healers go I think Merc/Commando is in the best spot atml, and do have better working single target heals then Scoundrel/Operative, and two very good shields.

As general HPS went, Scoundrel was about 20-30% better in general heals versus Commando and Sage in 5 meta, Sages/Sorcs performed better in PvP and more so in Ranked because they had a better defense aspect to the game, and is the class easier to do kiting (FS and PW) and still healing (healing trance, Wandering Mand on the go) and having burst heal with WM and Deliverance.

2020 might be the Commando/Merc Heal year after all.