Hi everyone. I've been playing this game since open beta, have been a huge participant on the forums and am exclusively a PvP'er. Now that I have been able to experience this RNG gearing first-hand for over a month I feel like I can truly weigh in on this.

 

First and foremost, this whole new system is convoluted and headache-inducing. It took me a few weeks to learn how GC actually worked. I ended up having to go to my friend's SWTOR stream in which he told me that I had to go to vendor A in order to get gear from vendor B. That alone does NOT simplify anything. Through community management I've seen the devs say or imply how they wanted to "simplify" the system--and let me you this is complicating it rather than simplifying it.

 

Secondly, I realized that I had been disintegrating tokens that I needed to use vendor B. Thankfully RNG has been good to me and I've been able to get full 230s (the blues without set bonuses) within CXP rank 40. Still though, I was extremely upset when I had realized I could have kept all those tokens I had disintegrated.

 

 

Ignore part of the third point. This concern seems to have been addressed. Though it still seems that this system is very alt-unfriendly because of how grindy CXP leveling is. The leveling event currently going on seems to be mitigating its grind, but what's the point if new tiers will be added rather quickly and it seems you will be punished if you want to play a character that is not a mirror of a high-level CXP character?

 

 

Fourthly, I hate how I might see myself playing Imp side more than Pub now on Harbinger. PvP is so one-sided and Imps win most of the time. It would take even more time to gear than it already takes on average on Imp side because Pubs lose A LOT. It doesn't help that many of my friends stopping playing Pub and focus mainly on Imp side, most likely due to this alt-unfriendly system.

 

Fifthly, now I really HATE how this system is so PvE-sided. I was told that you don't need to PvE to get the higher gear but that it would be faster and would help a lot. I am strictly a PvP'er. I do dailies sometimes for some credits but this is why we need to go back to having Expertise in place and PvP gear. If PvE'ers want to play in PvP then they need to work for PvP gear just like PvP'ers need to work for PvE gear, no exceptions. It's now all too common to have PvE'ers ruining the PvP experience for the rest of us because "I am just here for the CXP and unassembled components!"--that phrase is all too common now in PvP.

 

Lastly, this SYSTEM is SO BACKWARDS from how you guys treated this game back around 2.0 and 3.0. Let's take a look at a statement you guys released back when Dark Reaver was the then-top tier gear...

We think that getting a full set of PvP gear is too much of a grind. This is so much the case that only about 2% of PvP players have a full Dark Reaver set. Having at least Exhumed gear is a barrier to entry to being successful in PvP for the majority of players, so we looked to reduce the time and cost of getting there. We have reduced the entry PvP gear costs by roughly a third, and a full set (not min/maxed) will now cost about 4075 Warzone Commendations. For the Dark Reaver/Ranked set we didn’t reduce the price as much, but Ranked Warzone Comms will no longer be used to buy them; pieces will now be purchased with Warzone Comms and the previous tier gear piece.

I love this game and I'm glad I can play it again, but whoever was responsible for placing this system needs to be reprimanded at the very least. I still plan on playing and PvP'ing because I enjoy this game but extreme changes need to be made.

 

It seems people loved how gearing was 4.0. However, seeing as this is an MMO some sort of grind needs to exist so I definitely think people shouldn't be able to get full min/maxed gear right out of the gate or about a week of play. It sounds like 4.0 made gearing WAY TOO EASY, but this new system is a huge pendulum swing in the opposite direction and we don't need WAY TOO HARD either.

 

Please fix this.

 

Tl;dr: It's all underlined.

Edited February 15, 2017 by Talon_strikes

This is the nge, but just really stretched out. It started with 4.0 and will steadily get worse until they either fire the devs and revamp the game, or it shuts down.

This is the nge, but just really stretched out. It started with 4.0 and will steadily get worse until they either fire the devs and revamp the game, or it shuts down.

I love this game but I really had to post this. I really hate this new system. It's sad that in the last Twitch stream (I think) that Ben doubled down on Galactic Command and how they're not going to get rid of it.

 

I don't wish to see anyone lose their jobs unless they're so bad that maybe they're causing problems within the workplace, but perhaps see some new devs with innovative thoughts and plans and/or have the current devs make changes to make this as close to 2.0/3.0 as possible.

Edited February 15, 2017 by Talon_strikes

The orange moddable pieces containing blue prototype quality item modifications with no set bonus and unoptimized mods cannot be turned in. But, when you get the purple artifact quality item with the set bonus and optimized mod, that can be turned in for the next tier piece along with command tokens, which are legacy bound.

 

Actually right now, the system is heavy on pvp and GSF right now, at least in terms of cxp yield per unit of time. That's part of the motivation for some of the changes coming in 5.1.2 at the end of the month to cxp gain from operations and flashpoints.

 

So, I hope this clears up two mistakes in your assumptions. The system is far from perfect but the Devs are listening to feedback and are making changes. There have literally been hundreds of threads claiming 4.0 or 5.0 is SWTOR's NGE. Having played SWG from beta to the night they shut the servers down, I find the claims dubious at best.

Thirdly, I hate how ALT-UNFRIENDLY this system is. I can't use Tier 3 gear unless my character is Tier 3. At least back then ANY toon could wear the highest rated gear without being gated by anything. No matter how little you played it at endgame, if the mods were attached to legacy gear any character on your server instantly had access to it.

I'm not sure what you mean here. If you're not Tier 3, you can't get Tier 3 command boxes but, mods are mods and armorings are armorings. They only have a level restriction on them. As far as I know, they don't have a tier restriction on them. You can still put them in legacy gear and move them around.

The orange moddable pieces containing blue prototype quality item modifications with no set bonus and unoptimized mods cannot be turned in. But, when you get the purple artifact quality item with the set bonus and optimized mod, that can be turned in for the next tier piece along with command tokens, which are legacy bound.

 

Actually right now, the system is heavy on pvp and GSF right now, at least in terms of cxp yield per unit of time. That's part of the motivation for some of the changes coming in 5.1.2 at the end of the month to cxp gain from operations and flashpoints.

 

So, I hope this clears up two mistakes in your assumptions. The system is far from perfect but the Devs are listening to feedback and are making changes. There have literally been hundreds of threads claiming 4.0 or 5.0 is SWTOR's NGE. Having played SWG from beta to the night they shut the servers down, I find the claims dubious at best.

In the spoiler I mentioned that I realized that the 230 blues aren't trade-able which IMO is stupid. What I understand from your comment about the purples is that you can get them from the crates as well, and if that's the case I'm almost to CXP 50 and haven't gotten a set bonus piece whatsoever.

 

Well from what I heard the pace of getting the actual set bonus gear easily favors PvE. That needs to change. If PvE'ers want to PvP then they need to work for PvP gear. They can't just waltz into PvP just for CXP and unassemabled components. Bring back Expertise and if they don't have it then they get punished as they should be.

 

I'm not sure what you mean here. If you're not Tier 3, you can't get Tier 3 command boxes but, mods are mods and armorings are armorings. They only have a level restriction on them. As far as I know, they don't have a tier restriction on them. You can still put them in legacy gear and move them around.

Well not being Tier 3 makes it kind of frustrating because of how grindy it is and how you mainly get garbage, but what I assumed is that you can't wear Tier 3 gear from the vendor unless you are Tier 3. I guess I'm wrong then aren't I? I guess I can remove that part but part of my point still stands.

Edited February 15, 2017 by Talon_strikes

Of course it is. New Gambling Experience = NGE.

 

...why even doubt it?

I love this game but I really had to post this. I really hate this new system. It's sad that in the last Twitch stream (I think) that Ben doubled down on Galactic Command and how they're not going to get rid of it.

 

I don't wish to see anyone lose their jobs unless they're so bad that maybe they're causing problems within the workplace, but perhaps see some new devs with innovative thoughts and plans and/or have the current devs make changes to make this as close to 2.0/3.0 as possible.

 

I agree that it's never nice for anyone to lose thier job, but what choice is left when they are single handedly running their product into the ground, and absolutely refuse to consider any of the alternatives that have been presented for years?

Really? You can't wear t3 unless you are t3? But that's not true for t1/t2...

Really? You can't wear t3 unless you are t3? But that's not true for t1/t2...

Screaming_Ziva corrected me. It seems the gear doesn't have a Tier restriction, but you still have to grind T3 by getting the T2 shells and the T2 shells by getting the T1 shells.

 

I love wearing my Cartel gear (that I get via the GTN or from friend referral grants) so I would hate to have to extract the mods, pay credits, put it in Legacy gear, extract the mods again, pay more credits, and then have to do the same **** again if I wanna go back to an alt.

 

The only other alternative is to regrind all the Tier shells... all over again... which I don't really want to do as of now. I could regrind back then because grinding was so straightforward and it actually didn't feel grindy as opposed to now.

Edited February 15, 2017 by Talon_strikes

Yeap, this has been akin to the NGE.

The complete gutting of an existing gearing system with some notice though instead of a complete overhaul of classes without notice in this case.

 

Funny part is, they're already scrambling to re-instate at least partially what they just got through taking away because that system worked better for all players involved and didn't need any changing in the first place.

 

If they were smart they would've listened to us when we told them not to push the new system live.

 

I mean the Command System could be fun if it weren't tied to gearing at all. But the last time I remember experiencing something this bad it was the great NGE Exodus paired with the launch of The Trials of Obi-Wan expansion. And this, while not as blatantly rude to players, still ranks up there with it for being a very bad idea when they had player feedback telling them not to do it. *shrugs* Just one players opinion but I know I'm not alone at least.

 

I can understand a financial decision to want to push the game back to more perks for Subscribers to get the Subscriptions versus the Trial Members (F2P/Preferred)... but there were much simpler ways to do it.

 

I can only continue to state my opinion here in saying that I at least think they're now in a Too little, Too late pickle... but it remains to be seen that this has been damaging enough that the game won't still stick around for many years to come. SWG did for close to 5 long years (longer than any previous incarnation of the game) but it always suffered under the shadow of that one galactic mistake.

 

They could fix this... but a lot of damage is already done.

 

And same as with the NGE... some people loved it, stuck with it, and were rewarded with a better version of the NGE by the time the lights were getting close to being turned off those last 2 years or so. SWTOR? May, or may not, be as lucky.

 

The thing about Astrometrics (a lil play on statistics) is that they don't tell you the whole story. You can see that you have a majority of your players consuming 'x' content... but that doesn't mean that they necessarily like it. Same way with forums. A smaller percentage of the player base usually uses the forum than actually play the game. That is where the "vocal minority" arguments tend to crop up.

 

Anyway, sorry for the long reply... I'm just feeling pretty jaded by the current direction they've chosen to sail this ship.

Screaming_Ziva corrected me. It seems the gear doesn't have a Tier restriction, but you still have to grind T3 by getting the T2 shells and the T2 shells by getting the T1 shells.

 

I love wearing my Cartel gear (that I get via the GTN or from friend referral grants) so I would hate to have to extract the mods, pay credits, put it in Legacy gear, extract the mods again, pay more credits, and then have to do the same **** again if I wanna go back to an alt.

 

The only other alternative is to regrind all the Tier shells... all over again... which I don't really want to do as of now. I could regrind back then because grinding was so straightforward and it actually didn't feel grindy as opposed to now.

Outfit Designer

 

Edited February 15, 2017 by jojobanutz

Outfit Designer

 

Ignore this ignorant post that I made. A quick Google search seems to have cleared things up.

 

So basically, I can put the mods into Legacy gear and just send the gear to the toon I'm logging on to even if its on the other faction and I'll be gtg?!

Edited February 15, 2017 by Talon_strikes

Sadly, the NGE gave us a lot of new content we hadn't had before...content was slow...but at least SoE gave us new stuff.

Short answer: yes.

 

Long answer: While the actual changes made to TOR are not the same as the kind of changes that were made to SWG with the NGE, the end result is the same: taking a game people were happy with and turning it into something completely different in tone and structure, which alienates your existing customer base. People didn't sign up to TOR to play an Asian free-to-play grindfest MMO where you can pay to play loot roulette faster. They also didn't start a TOR subscription to play a single player RPG.

 

It's like if Ford stopped making cars and decided from now on it would exclusively make unicycles. Even the loyalest of Ford customers would not like this change, and they would not continue buying product from the company because what they wanted was a car, not a unicycle. They bought Ford's products because they made cars they liked. Unless they also really like unicycles and are okay with replacing their car with a unicycle for their daily commute, they're going to stop being Ford customers and go buy cars from another company.

 

That is what is happening now with TOR. They're taking a game that was a theme park MMO for several years, and turning it into something completely different, that many of their paying customers didn't ask for and don't want. So those customers are going to start going somewhere else to get the kind of game they do want, the kind of game TOR used to be.

Edited February 15, 2017 by AscendingSky

New Gambling Experience - Is this the new SWG NGE?

I think 4.0 wins the NGE honors, with 3.0 getting special mention for its preparatory role. 5.0 was simply a mistake. Edited February 15, 2017 by GalacticKegger

Actually from what I just read, I see the RNG gear you get from the crates cannot be turned in for the next tier up... which further emphasizes my next point...

Actually, it can be.

 

Tier 1 230 purple shell + Unassembled Components = Unassembled Tier 2 236 piece.

Unassembled Tier 2 236 piece + Command Tokens = Tier 2 236 gear piece.

 

Tier 2 236 gold shell + Unassembled Components = Unassembled Tier 3 242 piece.

Unassembled Tier 3 242 piece + Command Tokens = Tier 2 236 gear piece.

 

Otherwise, I agree with everything you said.

Actually, it can be.

 

Tier 1 230 purple shell + Unassembled Components = Unassembled Tier 2 236 piece.

Unassembled Tier 2 236 piece + Command Tokens = Tier 2 236 gear piece.

 

Tier 2 236 gold shell + Unassembled Components = Unassembled Tier 3 242 piece.

Unassembled Tier 3 242 piece + Command Tokens = Tier 2 236 gear piece.

 

Otherwise, I agree with everything you said.

I thought I emphasized it but I got 230 BLUES, and the blues are the shells that cannot be upgraded at all--the ones that are modded but have no set bonuses. And to make matters worse I haven't received a single purple shell or implant from the crates.

Besides all of the humorous mistakes the OP keeps making (check your stuff before you post, man), this isn't as bad as the NGE was for SWG. Now is GC bad? Obviously; SWTOR is bleeding sub numbers like a stuffed pig. But this hasn't killed a thriving game like the NGE did. Instead, GC has slowly been putting nails into the coffin of a dying animal.

I thought I emphasized it but I got 230 BLUES, and the blues are the shells that cannot be upgraded at all--the ones that are modded but have no set bonuses. And to make matters worse I haven't received a single purple shell or implant from the crates.

Right, you were clear. I see that now. I just didn't notice that for some reason.

This is the nge, but just really stretched out. It started with 4.0 and will steadily get worse until they either fire the devs and revamp the game, or it shuts down.

 

Exhumed and Dark reaver gear in 2.0 and 3.0? Are you sure o fyour timeline? or is that the dark side name for the Battlemaster and etc.

Besides all of the humorous mistakes the OP keeps making (check your stuff before you post, man), this isn't as bad as the NGE was for SWG. Now is GC bad? Obviously; SWTOR is bleeding sub numbers like a stuffed pig. But this hasn't killed a thriving game like the NGE did. Instead, GC has slowly been putting nails into the coffin of a dying animal.

The only mistakes I made were partially about how alt-unfriendly this system is and the gearing. My points still stand. RNG gearing at this capacity is plain awful. The old system was so much more simplistic and the devs have made statements in which they wanted to minimize the grind (such as their PvP gearing update for 3.3). Why the complete change in approach? Everything was perfectly fine and not broken at all. Now the new system is almost like a Korean grind and it's still alt-unfriendly in many other aspects.

 

Exhumed and Dark reaver gear in 2.0 and 3.0? Are you sure o fyour timeline? or is that the dark side name for the Battlemaster and etc.

You read the thread wrong. All I said about 2.0 and 3.0 was how the gearing system during those times worked perfectly, and worked simplistically as the game got older.

Edited February 15, 2017 by Talon_strikes

I got my first purple shell yesterday. A belt! CXP rank 52! Edited February 16, 2017 by Talon_strikes

As an SWG Vet I can say for certain that this is NOT a repeat of the NGE. The NGE did more than just change how equipment was attained it changed the entire game itself. SWG Pre-NGE was a Sandbox MMO where if you wanted to master something you had to use the skill repeatedly to gain experience in it. Before the NGE there was the CU or Combat Upgrade which is what we are seeing now. It redesigned how equipment worked with the various classes. The NGE took SWG from a sandbox MMO to a WOW Clone. It changed a skill based game into a level based game. It also eliminated 40% of the classes that players loved. If you think 4.0 and 5.0 for SWTOR is an attempt to recreate the NGE then you never played SWG before either the CU or the NGE.

As an SWG Vet I can say for certain that this is NOT a repeat of the NGE. The NGE did more than just change how equipment was attained it changed the entire game itself. SWG Pre-NGE was a Sandbox MMO where if you wanted to master something you had to use the skill repeatedly to gain experience in it. Before the NGE there was the CU or Combat Upgrade which is what we are seeing now. It redesigned how equipment worked with the various classes. The NGE took SWG from a sandbox MMO to a WOW Clone. It changed a skill based game into a level based game. It also eliminated 40% of the classes that players loved. If you think 4.0 and 5.0 for SWTOR is an attempt to recreate the NGE then you never played SWG before either the CU or the NGE.

 

It removed more than 40% of classes. They paired it down to only 9 classes. I did misrepresent earlier when I said this was a slow nge, this is really more in line with the CU, which also garnered almost as much hate as the nge, and was the first wave of cancellations. I fear this game is heading down the path with the same pitfalls, all because the devs ego and arrogance won't let them admit that they are wrong, much like SOE did.