Jump to content

Meetra Surik(The Exile) Cooler than revan IMO


Vektarulz

Recommended Posts

She was an awesome character who was given a completely useless death, imo. Only one I can think of that was worse was Roy Fokker in the Macross Saga...

 

Actually, he died well in the movie, so that kinda redeems him. Drew, on the other hand can't rewrite Meetra's death. :(

 

I haven't read the book, but from what I hear, I have to agree with you..

 

 

... her death was pointless. Just randomly getting stabbed in the back...literally by one of the jedi companions...man I almost hope there is a choice to let him live or die at one point...

 

In Kotor II I made male Exiles for the most part, but before I got into Beta for TOR I roll'd a female Exile. So all of that work, everything she did to rebuild the Order....and then she just gets stabbed in the back and our beloved droid explodes shortly after.....a very poor story.

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Replies 351
  • Created
  • Last Reply

Top Posters In This Topic

It is not the man himself, it is the ridiculous over-worship of his character, so much so that it becomes canon to many when that simply isn't true.

 

Well that's actually something I can agree with. In truth I always did think he was at least a little overrated. I just never felt the Exile was really a phenomenally different example of a PC. Not that I really hate either of them, but I think they are both fairly blank slates for instance.

Edited by OldVengeance
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Well that's actually something I can agree with. In truth I always did think he was at least a little overrated. I just never felt the Exile was really a phenomenally different example of a PC. They are both fairly blank slates for instance.

 

Well my personal reason for liking the Exile more were the facts, she never got praised through the roof by other characters, she actually earned all the respect she gained and she always stuck to her beliefs, she wasn't some big epic hero, she was the hero needed of the moment.

 

Revan was far to much of your typical fallen Jedi character, difference was, he never ever seemed to suffer any consequences, everybody was too madly in love with him to care if he had turned traitor and burned down almost all the galaxy, he just seemed WAY overrated in and out of game, yet he didn't even have his own personality, he was just your blank character/mysterious figure, I never got what all the fuss was about.

 

The Exile was much more different, much more down to earth and suffered the consequences to a massive degree, she was more human and more respectable.

Edited by Rayla_Felana
Link to comment
Share on other sites

There are a few things I'd like to day.

 

There is NO CANON for these characters. Even if the Star Wars Franchise says so.

 

Why? Because you basically made every single choice in the KOTOR games. YOU decided what choices were made. YOU decided EVERYTHING in KOTOR.

 

Then Star Wars throws it down the drain and declares THIS WAY canon, THAT WAY fake.

 

Sickening.

 

 

 

2. Yes the people in SW are now your DC comic book characters. So? There was not one person who decided that in SW you can't go Dragon Ball Z. And Frankly, this OPness led to the greatest stories that I've seen.

 

 

3. Revan is over-worshipped, I agree.

 

4. I can't remember who I'm quoting anymore. May edit this later :p.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

There are a few things I'd like to day.

 

There is NO CANON for these characters. Even if the Star Wars Franchise says so.

 

There is, and it does.

 

Why? Because you basically made every single choice in the KOTOR games. YOU decided what choices were made. YOU decided EVERYTHING in KOTOR.

 

That's the style of game, a typical western CRPG.

Like it or lump it, there is a canon outcome for both games, and it is (yet again) the Light Side aka "good guys" one.

It's not decided by the fans, or by Bioware/Obsidian. Lucas Licencing.

 

Then Star Wars throws it down the drain and declares THIS WAY canon, THAT WAY fake.

 

Sickening.

 

Unfortunately (more for people like yourself) it's become a standard practice that most Star Wars games are now contributing to the EU and C-Canon.

It's part of the multimedia "onslaught" of Star Wars.

 

Personally that's ok, up to a point.

I'd prefer it if more games weren't contributing to the EU and C-Canon at all.

Maybe then we'd have more (and hopefully) better Star Wars games.

Starfighter, Galactic Battlegrounds, TFU II and others, they all added to the EU and C-Canon. They all sucked as games.

 

2. Yes the people in SW are now your DC comic book characters. So? There was not one person who decided that in SW you can't go Dragon Ball Z. And Frankly, this OPness led to the greatest stories that I've seen.

 

 

3. Revan is over-worshipped, I agree.

 

4. I can't remember who I'm quoting anymore. May edit this later :p.

 

Number 4 is the most relevant to what follows.

You're not quoting anyone in particular, but it looks like you're addressing Mefit and maybe Rayla.

Edited by Fyurii
Link to comment
Share on other sites

It was completely intentional, Drew had no reason to do it, he just wanted to do it so he could say his creation was better than Avellone's.

 

I really like Karpyshyn;s work. The Darth Bane novels were great. But in the Revan novel I did get the impression he hated Meetra. I wanted to cry when she died the way she did. Drew COULD and SHOULD re-write her, admitting he was jealous of such a great character. We all know he won't though.

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

If you think Revan is too special that it becomes silly, why isn't the same true for the exile? The Exile is even more "special". They Exile was quite literally the one person that somehow was immune to Nihiuls ridiculous planet eating power and the somewhat goofy idea that he or she survived without the force makes them more unique than Revan's goofy idea of mastering both sides of the force.

 

 

If Revan is too special then The Exile is waaaaay too special.

 

The Exile was immune to Nihilus's draining ability because they were both wounds in the Force. Nihilus basically tried to drain the Force/Life from a void. All it did was weaken him for the effort.

 

The Exile isn't the only being that existed without the Force. Yuuzhan Vong were severed from the Force on a species level.

 

As for Drew's inclusion of the Exile in "Revan", it could have been done much better. It would've been better if Meetra had been someone else and not the Exile, in my opinion. As it stands, there are too many incongruities between the novel's portrayal and TSL's for me to truly enjoy the novel. I can understand toning a SP-game protagonist down, but to simply ignore the entire pre-existing plot and still use the character seems like a rather poor choice.

 

As for Sever Force and Force Drain, there is no defense against either of them. In the case of Force Drain, you either survive it or you don't. If you survive it, you become a wound in the Force like Nihilus or the Exile. If you don't, well you still end up as a wound in the Force, only to a much lesser degree.

Edited by CauldronBorn
Link to comment
Share on other sites

I support this thread.

 

 

If you think Revan is too special that it becomes silly, why isn't the same true for the exile? The Exile is even more "special". They Exile was quite literally the one person that somehow was immune to Nihiuls ridiculous planet eating power and the somewhat goofy idea that he or she survived without the force makes them more unique than Revan's goofy idea of mastering both sides of the force.

 

 

If Revan is too special then The Exile is waaaaay too special.

 

The Exile was not immune. It was Nihilus' apprentice. I can source this statement.

 

She didn't survive without the force. She was not in any harm from the Mass Shadow Generator. After they activated it, the Exile could feel the deaths of both sides. She was very sensitive to others, and so rather than turning to the dark side like the other surviving Jedi who followed Revan to war, she severed her connection to the force.

 

She also didn't create the Mass Shadow Generator, either.

 

 

"I remember standing on the bridge with you and watching the destruction of the Republic—watching ships full of soldiers and Jedi burn and die. I remember the look you had when you turned to me. It was the longest you'd ever looked at me. You didn't say anything—just a nod. Events move quickly then, even in my dreams. Flashes, explosions, you—falling. I could feel the pain around me. And then the memory. The drifting hulks of the Mandalorian ships, the dead—allies, friends, strangers. And then the echo. Lingering. The sound I awaken to in my nightmares. Does anyone deserve the Mandalorians' fate? Even some of their conquered worlds fared better."

 

- Bao-Dur, to the Jedi Exile.

 

 

Source(s):

http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Visas_Marr

http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Mass_Shadow_Generator

http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Darth_Nihilus

http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Mandalorian_Wars

Edited by EnsignSorrow
Link to comment
Share on other sites

This doesn't need to devolve into a PC vs PC fight. All opinions are valid. I think the Exile's better, that doesn't make me auto-right. It does however make me right in my eyes.

 

Okay, for a start, I've already said I don't hate Revan. I think Revan is a decent character, However, I personally don't find him interesting. Maybe I've seen too many 'awesome person gets amnesia' plots, I don't know, but Revan never grabbed my attention like the Exile did.

 

The reason I prefer the Exile is not because of her powers, it's because of the whole story surrounding her and how the character fit into it. The mechanics don't concern me.

 

As for the whole 'fitting the adversaries to the PC so they can win' thing?...Yeah, every game does that, or else the PC would never be the 'chosen one' and a random mook guard could kill the big evil thing. I don't debate the Exile had certain elements in her favour, but let's not forget Kreia chose her specifically for that, so there's just as much in-universe justification for it as anything in kotor1.

 

Also, the Exile's Force bond thing does not make her stronger than Revan in terms of influence. Let us not forget Revan was supposedly so charismatic that entire armies of Jedi would leave to follow him. I doubt the Exile could manage that on her best day. What she did with the Force Revan did with words. And while Revan was a Force/saber prodigy in-universe, the Jedi on Dantooine outright say that the Exile was average. The Exile's ONLY benefit over Revan is her Force bond/wound ability.

 

What bothers me is not her vs Revan. What bothers me is she was killed explicitly to save Revan. It felt like Bioware throwing out an equal to focus on the other character. And it wasn't just the Exile, it was T3 too, which also bugs me.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

This doesn't need to devolve into a PC vs PC fight. All opinions are valid. I think the Exile's better, that doesn't make me auto-right. It does however make me right in my eyes.

 

Okay, for a start, I've already said I don't hate Revan. I think Revan is a decent character, However, I personally don't find him interesting. Maybe I've seen too many 'awesome person gets amnesia' plots, I don't know, but Revan never grabbed my attention like the Exile did.

 

The reason I prefer the Exile is not because of her powers, it's because of the whole story surrounding her and how the character fit into it. The mechanics don't concern me.

 

As for the whole 'fitting the adversaries to the PC so they can win' thing?...Yeah, every game does that, or else the PC would never be the 'chosen one' and a random mook guard could kill the big evil thing. I don't debate the Exile had certain elements in her favour, but let's not forget Kreia chose her specifically for that, so there's just as much in-universe justification for it as anything in kotor1.

 

Also, the Exile's Force bond thing does not make her stronger than Revan in terms of influence. Let us not forget Revan was supposedly so charismatic that entire armies of Jedi would leave to follow him. I doubt the Exile could manage that on her best day. What she did with the Force Revan did with words. And while Revan was a Force/saber prodigy in-universe, the Jedi on Dantooine outright say that the Exile was average. The Exile's ONLY benefit over Revan is her Force bond/wound ability.

 

What bothers me is not her vs Revan. What bothers me is she was killed explicitly to save Revan. It felt like Bioware throwing out an equal to focus on the other character. And it wasn't just the Exile, it was T3 too, which also bugs me.

 

Best Post in here by far and I respect your point of view :D

Link to comment
Share on other sites

The Exile's ONLY benefit over Revan is her Force bond/wound ability.

 

Force Enlightenment. It's not about that, though.

 

The whole thing about this topic is not that the Exile is better than Revan. It's that the Exile's story is not consistent after TSL. The Exile becomes nothing more than a plot device.

 

I know when I first played I searched endlessly for any evidence of the Exile, or her companion's involvement in the current Jedi Order. Maybe a statue in the Temple, or something. It's odd that there isn't more information surrounding the Exile, and the current Jedi Council. This is without a doubt one of the most epic bits of lore they could include.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Force Enlightenment. It's not about that, though.

 

The whole thing about this topic is not that the Exile is better than Revan. It's that the Exile's story is not consistent after TSL. The Exile becomes nothing more than a plot device.

 

I know when I first played I searched endlessly for any evidence of the Exile, or her companion's involvement in the current Jedi Order. Maybe a statue in the Temple, or something. It's odd that there isn't more information surrounding the Exile, and the current Jedi Council. This is without a doubt one of the most epic bits of lore they could include.

 

Gotta remember that Drew did write the Jedi Knight story, it doesn't surprise me that there isn't any evidence of the Exile in TOR even though she's the one that rebuilt the Jedi Order after Revan ruined it.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Also, the Exile's Force bond thing does not make her stronger than Revan in terms of influence. Let us not forget Revan was supposedly so charismatic that entire armies of Jedi would leave to follow him. I doubt the Exile could manage that on her best day. What she did with the Force Revan did with words. And while Revan was a Force/saber prodigy in-universe, the Jedi on Dantooine outright say that the Exile was average. The Exile's ONLY benefit over Revan is her Force bond/wound ability..

 

As much as I like your post, I must point out a few things:

 

The Exile made force bonds with entire armies and fleets she herself led, through Dxun and Malachor V, that's why the effects of the MSG were so devastating to her.

 

I wouldn't believe a word Vrook Lamar says, he claimed the Sunriders were "Nothing more but over-reactive children handling weapons they know nothing about."

 

Consider the fact that at the same time she had a natural affinity for Sever Force, something Vima Sunrider taught her to use.

 

Revan himself recounted the Exile as an extremely powerful Jedi Knight during the Mandalorian Wars.

 

Then when she fought the campaign against the Sith Triumvirate she seemed to regain teachings she had lost at an astronomical speed, culminating in her Force Enlightenment and let's not forget her annihilating single-handedly the entire Trayus Academy, using Dun Moch on Sion and then using Sever Force on Traya.

 

She seemed damn powerful to me.

 

But I see that isn't your point, I really don't mind the Exile dying, but not in the '**** you' way Karpyshyn did it.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I'll take "Follow the light and you will see clearly, follow the Dark path and you walk blindly." over a madman's words any day.

 

meetra was a chump. had a lightsaber ignited thru her back. . . . like a chump hey like a chump hey!!!

Link to comment
Share on other sites

As much as I like your post, I must point out a few things:

 

The Exile made force bonds with entire armies and fleets she herself led, through Dxun and Malachor V, that's why the effects of the MSG were so devastating to her.

 

I wouldn't believe a word Vrook Lamar says, he claimed the Sunriders were "Nothing more but over-reactive children handling weapons they know nothing about."

 

Consider the fact that at the same time she had a natural affinity for Sever Force, something Vima Sunrider taught her to use.

 

Revan himself recounted the Exile as an extremely powerful Jedi Knight during the Mandalorian Wars.

 

Then when she fought the campaign against the Sith Triumvirate she seemed to regain teachings she had lost at an astronomical speed, culminating in her Force Enlightenment and let's not forget her annihilating single-handedly the entire Trayus Academy, using Dun Moch on Sion and then using Sever Force on Traya.

 

She seemed damn powerful to me.

 

But I see that isn't your point, I really don't mind the Exile dying, but not in the '**** you' way Karpyshyn did it.

 

Oh yeah, don't get me wrong, I love the Exile and ackowledge she is incredibly powerful. I don't like the way she was handled either, I'm just saying she's not the ultra-powerful God mode people seem to say she is. Mostly because her strengths rely on, it would seem, the presence of other Force-sensitives. She was pretty dead to the world until Kreia came along.

 

To the bit about her strength, the way I understood it was she started out average, and via her Force bonds became much stronger. I meant more that she didn't start out a prodigy as all hints to Revan might suggest he was. In addition, I would've thought her influence required her to work. Not at the bonds themselves, but to build enough influence. imo, Revan makes manipulation seem a lot easier.

 

For Vrook, I believe his bluster sometimes has a ring of truth. He seemed a little more serious about the Exile's condition in TSL, but that might be me providing justification in my own head. Also, having an affinity for a particular Force ability does not mean you are a great Jedi. Bastila had her battle meditation, but she wasn't all that powerful relatively speaking (at least I don't think so).

 

I have no trouble whatsoever with TSL or the original kotor story-wise. The lore established is the lore established. I only have trouble with the Revan novel and their appearances in TOR. Mainly in that how did the Exile manage to get stabbed in the back, of all things? Add in her fanaticism for Revan (which it is entirely possible to reject in TSL as I recall) and things don't add up in my mind.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

As much as I like your post, I must point out a few things:

 

The Exile made force bonds with entire armies and fleets she herself led, through Dxun and Malachor V, that's why the effects of the MSG were so devastating to her.

 

I wouldn't believe a word Vrook Lamar says, he claimed the Sunriders were "Nothing more but over-reactive children handling weapons they know nothing about."

 

Consider the fact that at the same time she had a natural affinity for Sever Force, something Vima Sunrider taught her to use.

 

Revan himself recounted the Exile as an extremely powerful Jedi Knight during the Mandalorian Wars.

 

Then when she fought the campaign against the Sith Triumvirate she seemed to regain teachings she had lost at an astronomical speed, culminating in her Force Enlightenment and let's not forget her annihilating single-handedly the entire Trayus Academy, using Dun Moch on Sion and then using Sever Force on Traya.

 

She seemed damn powerful to me.

 

But I see that isn't your point, I really don't mind the Exile dying, but not in the '**** you' way Karpyshyn did it.

 

Vrook Lamar was.... grumpy. But then, he was played by Ed Asner. The guy pretty much perfected the Grumpy Old Man act. lol

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Oh yeah, don't get me wrong, I love the Exile and ackowledge she is incredibly powerful. I don't like the way she was handled either, I'm just saying she's not the ultra-powerful God mode people seem to say she is. Mostly because her strengths rely on, it would seem, the presence of other Force-sensitives. She was pretty dead to the world until Kreia came along.

 

To the bit about her strength, the way I understood it was she started out average, and via her Force bonds became much stronger. I meant more that she didn't start out a prodigy as all hints to Revan might suggest he was. In addition, I would've thought her influence required her to work. Not at the bonds themselves, but to build enough influence. imo, Revan makes manipulation seem a lot easier.

 

For Vrook, I believe his bluster sometimes has a ring of truth. He seemed a little more serious about the Exile's condition in TSL, but that might be me providing justification in my own head. Also, having an affinity for a particular Force ability does not mean you are a great Jedi. Bastila had her battle meditation, but she wasn't all that powerful relatively speaking (at least I don't think so).

 

I have no trouble whatsoever with TSL or the original kotor story-wise. The lore established is the lore established. I only have trouble with the Revan novel and their appearances in TOR. Mainly in that how did the Exile manage to get stabbed in the back, of all things? Add in her fanaticism for Revan (which it is entirely possible to reject in TSL as I recall) and things don't add up in my mind.

 

Yup, Drew Karpyshyn did exactly what Karen Traviss did to Jaina and Mara Jade, ignored everything previously established in the name of more fanboying over Revan, cus y'know, in Drew's world Revan is the Be-all and end-all of everything in Star Wars.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

The power of charecters in starwars is very strange indeed

 

 

Consider it this way,Revan although hailed as a god and with the help of the exile did not have enough power to strike the emperor down when revan and the exile were in there prime

 

YET a level 50 jedi knight can defeat him in battle(SPOILER)hes not dead,play a sith warrior and you learn the truth however he was still defeated

 

At the same time,it takes 4 level 50's to defeat revan(i dont think hes dead either)

and lets be generous and say hardmode revan is the true revan not normal lol

 

if thats the case,then 50's in swtor are actuley great forces to be reckoned with....yet raid bosses that are regular humans and **** are somehow even stronger?

 

and the emperor defeated 1v1 vs a level 50 or lower is somehow the most powerful? I mean if we consider the emperor basically a god like were supposed to he doesn't seem that strong :p

 

I really hope that later in this games life, jedi get a raid where they kill the emperor and sith get one where they kill revan hell i wouldent even mind if my sith got to kill the emperor considering hes tryen to kill all of us anyway

Edited by Vektarulz
Link to comment
Share on other sites

I am just gonna say again all the attacks on a Author of StarWars books and no realisation of what a Author has to go through to get Published through LucasArts .

 

Drew's writings on the Revan Novel if were bad would have never made it to Publishing , after all that book has alot too do with this game "TOR" which cost LucasArts and Bioware alot of money to make . Somewhere around $150million to $200million , being the largest amount to be ever spent on a MMO in History .

You guys really think Bioware and LucasArts would allow missuse of canon that would later bite them in the butt come to be ?

 

Not to mention you see alot of people Stating there is nothing of KotoRII in this game , first point out Meetra Surik's force Ghost saddly only viewable from Republic Side , secondly there is atleast 2 Datacrons on lore of KotoRII . But I guess you would have to play the game , search out lore, and then (KeyWord) """Read""" it .

 

Drew being the writer for games like KotoR to Mass Effect and having a decent amount of hand in TOR has made him well known , he might not be a ""BEST SELLER"" like Zahn or Traviss but Drew being apart of games that have made it too Game of the Year more than once speaks louder to me than those books . I liked the Revan Novel but I will be the first to say it was just decent . Bane books were far better but those characters were not emotionally bound through peoples gaming experience .

 

While you can say what you want Meetra Surik died being stabbed in the back , it has nothing to do with canon other than now it is canon. She had no powers that would have forseen it happening , and to be honest it was more than likely outcome in that situation. Revan was getting beat bad like a rag doll and she got killed . This is what happens when you follow someone so willingly as she did and according to KotoRII lore and lore of the Campaign Guide of KotoR .

 

Her Power to use Force Sever was never on the fly , Kreia wanted Surik to use it on her , and Nihilus was focused on his Apprentice not Meetra when she used it.

Even Sunrider never used it on the fly .

There was no instance where she could have used it on the Emperor (who by Lore and Conon of ForceWalk) would have been protected from it .

 

Other than her lack of using Force Sever she used every Power she had just about in that Novel. She is well stated in saving Revan from certain death and not only that but helping keeping Revan somewhat Sane for 300 years of being feed off of and having his mind ripped apart by The Emperor .

To say Meetra has gotten a weak part in the Novel is a understatement as it is well stated that without her Revan would have died in a cell or to even Nyriss . Meetra is the Hero if the Revan Novel but you would have to read it and get your mind away from her being killed .

Without Meetra Revan would have lost the war to the Mandos or it would have been much much longer , and without Meetra Revan would have been just lore in TOR .

 

I guess you would have to let go of Hero Worship and understand that sometimes people who die ,died as Heros more than those who live on.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I'm just gonna say again that all the attacks by Drew Karpyshyn on the established canon of the exile and KotOR II was completely and utterly uncalled for and he should have left her ending in the hands of someone who actually would care to bother finding out what kind of person she was before blindly turning her into the sacrificial lamb of the novel.

 

But hey you know, we must blind defend Drew Karpyshyn whom is in an infallible god clearly, just like his creation Revan.

 

Just my thoughts.

Link to comment
Share on other sites


×
×
  • Create New...