Jump to content

No patience to tank anymore


RikHar

Recommended Posts

How do you respond when you're a tank leading your group and some players just won't listen to good advice and what not to do or where not to stand then wind up costing you time because they get themselves killed all the time?

 

I ask because, personally, I am not a patient person. I have very little tolerance for nonsense or stupidity whether in real life or in a game. Some times I'll just leave the group but then it cost' me time because now I have to regroup once again.

 

I have a BH tank but lately, I've not been using him. I've lost the will to be a tank in groups. He's specced all in Black Hole armor. But I'm thinking of switching armor mods to dps instead. That will take some time though since everything I have I've put into the tank spec.

 

I appreciate the advice

Thank You

Edited by RikHar
Link to comment
Share on other sites

I usually /votekick the person who is not listening to a good advice. So u only need to replace one person, and it takes not much time to get a dps replacement since healers usually don't run around doing stupid things. Almost.

 

That. People know a tank that leaves is harder to replace (everytime I queue with my sin tank is a an instant pop since its the least played role in the game). Normally healers ain't an issue, altough some suddenly remember even thrash pulls require a heal or two in HM and not them dpsing all the time when your health hits 25% and all your cooldowns flare, but if a dps is being a DerPS, I A: let him die if he pulls too much, not taunting mobs off him

 

B : votekick.

 

Note it must be a total idiot. Because a dps trigger a theorically avoidable fight doesn't mean it needs an automatic votekick either..

Link to comment
Share on other sites

You are the tank. One, if not the most, important role in a group! Make use of that.

 

But don't be a dick tell everybody in your team how you want to play them, just abuse your power as a tank if you see the group performance really being negatively affected.

 

People tend to do ****, if they see a tank which throws around advices but is hardly any good himself, just because you are a tank, you still have to do your job right or better to give advices to others.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

How do you respond when you're a tank leading your group and some players just won't listen to good advice and what not to do or where not to stand then wind up costing you time because they get themselves killed all the time?

 

I ask because, personally, I am not a patient person. I have very little tolerance for nonsense or stupidity whether in real life or in a game. Some times I'll just leave the group but then it cost' me time because now I have to regroup once again.

 

I have a BH tank but lately, I've not been using him. I've lost the will to be a tank in groups. He's specced all in Black Hole armor. But I'm thinking of switching armor mods to dps instead. That will take some time though since everything I have I've put into the tank spec.

 

I appreciate the advice

Thank You

if u r a inpatient person why u play MMO?

this game is a eq clone,

the only good thing that EQ teach u science low level is mind ur own reputation,

this game will die again and again(look at 201202,201205), if u keep quit group or ignore others, there won't be any ppl to group.

 

now about the title,

ppl all have their own opinions, so they don't take ur advice,

they all want to entertain themselves,

even they die,

but this semi-hardcore game make bad players' mistake cause u die,

especially as a tank, u always die 1st,

that's why ppl hate group, prefer solo, because ppl often annoy others,

but BW design pre 50 can soloable , but design endgame to be a EQ clone,

that's a big wrong decision,

but on the other hand if BW teach u science low level then u probaly quit at the beginning, it is too hardcore for these generation.

 

ps: I have a full Campaign and Dread Guard gears tank, i only use it with ppl that i can trust, they all do their homework b4 enter an combat, even we can't speak the same language we still can finish hm ops.

Know a tank's role, it is like a paladin, if u don't like it , don't play it, that is why good tank is so few.

Edited by oakamp
Link to comment
Share on other sites

How do you respond when you're a tank leading your group and some players just won't listen to good advice and what not to do or where not to stand then wind up costing you time because they get themselves killed all the time?

 

I let them die.

If they risk the rest of the group, I whisper the healer to let them die.

If the healer refuses to listen to me and still heals the idiot, I bail.

 

I'm old school, and don't take that crap. If I'm tanking, you listen, period. No skipping mobs, no exploits, tank pulls. If you don't like it, leave and roll a tank. The important part of this, though, is as a tank you can never make an unreasonable demand without a logical basis behind it. If you become a tool that demands senseless things just because you're the tank, you're not worth listening to.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I let them die.

If they risk the rest of the group, I whisper the healer to let them die.

If the healer refuses to listen to me and still heals the idiot, I bail.

 

I'm old school, and don't take that crap. If I'm tanking, you listen, period. No skipping mobs, no exploits, tank pulls. If you don't like it, leave and roll a tank. The important part of this, though, is as a tank you can never make an unreasonable demand without a logical basis behind it. If you become a tool that demands senseless things just because you're the tank, you're not worth listening to.

 

 

That. Exemple that comes to mind is people that want to run past bosses in BoI HM Skipping thrash, ya sure. But bosses gives some comms, and skipping them risks the healer sometimes.

 

If dps are not happy about it, they can f*** off and requeue, or roll a tank.

 

Simply, your job, in collaboration with the healer is to keep the party alive. If you judge a situation or strategy risks that, it IS your job to put the fist down and say "no".

 

As far as leading goes, if you go out and play "my way or the highway" just for the powertrip as you rightfully says, you are just a bad team player, but you do have a leadership job to do to coordinate the rest of the group, and pack mobs together far of cc when possible for safe AoE uses. You gotta find the balance :)

Link to comment
Share on other sites

How do you respond when you're a tank leading your group and some players just won't listen to good advice and what not to do or where not to stand then wind up costing you time because they get themselves killed all the time?

 

I ask because, personally, I am not a patient person. I have very little tolerance for nonsense or stupidity whether in real life or in a game. Some times I'll just leave the group but then it cost' me time because now I have to regroup once again.

 

I have a BH tank but lately, I've not been using him. I've lost the will to be a tank in groups. He's specced all in Black Hole armor. But I'm thinking of switching armor mods to dps instead. That will take some time though since everything I have I've put into the tank spec.

 

I appreciate the advice

Thank You

Stupid people get one warning and get replaced the second time in my groups, not that I PUG often.

Edited by Jawa-Punter
Link to comment
Share on other sites

ah, the smug eliteism in this thread...you guys do realise that your just one quarter of the group right? being a tank does not make you an almigthy god with rights to decide who gets to stay. hate elitist jerks like you guys. Edited by goreblade
Link to comment
Share on other sites

ah, the smug eliteism in this thread...you guys do realise that your just one quarter of the group right? being a tank does not make you an almigthy god with rights to decide who gets to stay. hate elitist jerks like you guys.

The fact that I've seen many a 3 dps/1 heal group utterly annihilate things doesn't help their cause much either. Indeed, I've yet to do a flashpoint where 3 dps/1 heal hasn't done better than tank/heal/2 dps.

 

If anything I've more often felt like its the rest of the team having to support a player who gimps their damage (something that helps the entire party because 'dead' is the ultimate in crowd control) for marginally better personal survival.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

if u r a inpatient person why u play MMO?

this game is a eq clone,

the only good thing that EQ teach u science low level is mind ur own reputation,

this game will die again and again(look at 201202,201205), if u keep quit group or ignore others, there won't be any ppl to group.

 

now about the title,

ppl all have their own opinions, so they don't take ur advice,

they all want to entertain themselves,

even they die,

but this semi-hardcore game make bad players' mistake cause u die,

especially as a tank, u always die 1st,

that's why ppl hate group, prefer solo, because ppl often annoy others,

but BW design pre 50 can soloable , but design endgame to be a EQ clone,

that's a big wrong decision,

but on the other hand if BW teach u science low level then u probaly quit at the beginning, it is too hardcore for these generation.

 

ps: I have a full Campaign and Dread Guard gears tank, i only use it with ppl that i can trust, they all do their homework b4 enter an combat, even we can't speak the same language we still can finish hm ops.

Know a tank's role, it is like a paladin, if u don't like it , don't play it, that is why good tank is so few.

 

WoW clone, not EQLive clone. The former is infinitely more forgiving when dying than the latter. I don't see a bunch of corpse runs or people quitting the game entirely because their decked-out BH died at the raid boss and their corpse is next to the boss holding all their gear, forcing them to run back through a likely-respawned dungeon to hopefully get their gear back and not de-level.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

The fact that I've seen many a 3 dps/1 heal group utterly annihilate things doesn't help their cause much either. Indeed, I've yet to do a flashpoint where 3 dps/1 heal hasn't done better than tank/heal/2 dps.

 

If anything I've more often felt like its the rest of the team having to support a player who gimps their damage (something that helps the entire party because 'dead' is the ultimate in crowd control) for marginally better personal survival.

 

LMAO.

 

People like you get into an ops group and dont know *** to do. If you tunnel DPS you dont do good dps. Just higher numbers are not a mark of better DPS. And I would like to see you do content that you dont outgear by 2 levels on a 3 dps i healer strat.

 

Also, if you feel a tank gimps dps, maybe you are running with 2 dps that are not good enough to beat enrage timers. Also, crowd control is needed at the beginning of fights, not the end.

 

Also, marginal better personal survival. LMAO.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

ah, the smug eliteism in this thread...you guys do realise that your just one quarter of the group right? being a tank does not make you an almigthy god with rights to decide who gets to stay. hate elitist jerks like you guys.

 

I agree with you, it might feel elitist. however, in a pug group a tank is the default leader. you have to let him dictate the pace.

 

If a DPS jumps ahead and pulls without me and the Healer is ok with it, I just do my job and tank the add the dps is not hitting.

 

To be fair though, I have no had to tank a pug FP for a long time. I run with guildies and have FPs done in record times as they are mainly for comms.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

ah, the smug eliteism in this thread...you guys do realise that your just one quarter of the group right? being a tank does not make you an almigthy god with rights to decide who gets to stay. hate elitist jerks like you guys.

 

It's hard not to read all these posts and not think of people leaning back in their chairs smoking a pipe isn't it? But, in all honesty, the tank really is the default leader in a PUG. Coming from someone who mainly heals, the tank really needs to dictate the pace since he (should) be the one jumping in first and pulling aggro, etc. Granted, being the 'leader' doesn't mean pulling the 'my way or the highway' card, since then you are just being a dick about it. The only times a tank shouldn't be leading is when you actually know the people you're with or you trust someone who has possibly done the FP/HM or whatever a few times and you are still learning specific things. Other than that, tank is leader.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

You are the tank. One, if not the most, important role in a group! Make use of that.

 

But don't be a dick tell everybody in your team how you want to play them, just abuse your power as a tank if you see the group performance really being negatively affected.

 

People tend to do ****, if they see a tank which throws around advices but is hardly any good himself, just because you are a tank, you still have to do your job right or better to give advices to others.

 

I let them die.

If they risk the rest of the group, I whisper the healer to let them die.

If the healer refuses to listen to me and still heals the idiot, I bail.

 

I'm old school, and don't take that crap. If I'm tanking, you listen, period. No skipping mobs, no exploits, tank pulls. If you don't like it, leave and roll a tank. The important part of this, though, is as a tank you can never make an unreasonable demand without a logical basis behind it. If you become a tool that demands senseless things just because you're the tank, you're not worth listening to.

 

I enjoy playing the tank role in MMOs, and I dare say I'm quite good at it. Having said that I heavily disagree with the attitude of "the tank is the most important role in the group therefore he's the one everyone listens to else you risk pissing him off and dealing with finding a new one". If that's the only reason you play a tank, you're playing it for the wrong reasons buddy.

 

I remember being in a guild raid once a while back. For a little backstory I was originally going to be the main tank for this raid team but I decided to swap to DPS at the last minute because one of our other members decided he liked tanking more and I was having fun being DPS for a change. Anyway...we're joking around between boss pulls, making stupid jokes, no big deal. Well, one of the tanks (who wasn't very good tbh) was getting annoyed at our jokes and eventually says "yeah, it's not a good idea to piss off your tank" acting like he was the most important person there.

 

I wanted to lay into him so bad and tell him that all roles are equally important and he's no better than anyone else just because he's a tank (he wasn't even the raid leader), and that he should shut his damn mouth, but I held my tongue because it was counter-productive and would have just made the rest of the night awkward.

 

Anyway, my point is just that: tanking is no more important a role than any other and I don't like it when people act like it is. All 3 roles are like the legs of a tripod and if you kick one of those legs out what happens to the tripod? It falls the **** down...

 

Good luck staying alive Mr. Tank if you suddenly have no healer to keep your health bar up. Might survive for a while but your demise is imminent.

 

Good luck killing anything in a reasonable amount of time without any dedicated DPS. I hope nothing you're fighting has any sort of enrage timer or you're screwed, and even if it doesn't you'll probably fall asleep before it's killed.

 

Good luck keeping the group alive without someone built to take a punch to the face.

 

You get the picture...all roles are equally important to the success of a group. How hard it is to fill a role or how many (or few) people play classes that perform said role are irrelevant to it's functionality and importance in terms of group mechanics.

 

On a side note I'm also sick of healers in PvP acting like everyone owes them something. I remember queuing for warzones one night and kept getting put in a team with this healer who, after every match, would tell everyone in the group to "tip your healers" (meaning he wanted MVP votes), as if he thought being a healer in PvP was special or more important than everyone else, or that he was sacrificing his enjoyment by being a healer just so he could feel more special or important, to which I say: if that's the case you're playing a healer for the WRONG REASONS. -.-

 

Oh boy, that was a good vent. :D

Edited by Kurugi
Link to comment
Share on other sites

I agree with you, it might feel elitist. however, in a pug group a tank is the default leader. you have to let him dictate the pace.

 

wrong.

 

tank is certainly the leader - first in, last out, pull and hold all agro.

but healer is who dictates a pace.

 

fast running tanks who don't stop for rest and heal and just jumping from mobs to mobs without paying attention to his healer - *********** idiot

 

last evening i respec my merc to healer and tried some HM Flashs with PUGs

i know now what healers think about us :-)

 

i really suck as healer (so i hope not that much) but why for all heaven i always died first?

tank pull all the mob, i try to heal him out and get all the aggro!?

while running DPS i knew that healers always die last...

Edited by pan_sObak
Link to comment
Share on other sites

wrong.

 

tank is certainly the leader - first in, last out, pull and hold all agro.

but healer is who dictates a pace.

 

fast running tanks who don't stop for rest and heal and just jumping from mobs to mobs without paying attention to his healer - *********** idiot

 

last evening i respec my merc to healer and tried some HM Flashs with PUGs

i know now what healers think about us :-)

 

i really suck as healer (so i hope not that much) but why for all heaven i always died first?

tank pull all the mob, i try to heal him out and get all the aggro!?

while running DPS i knew that healers always die last...

 

Thats not what we are talking about the. The tank decides what the dps is going to attack and when they are going to attack for a very good reason. if you have gear imbalance then this becomes crucial.

Edited by Jaigen
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Thats not what we are talking about the. The tank decides what the dps is going to attack and when they are going to attack for a very good reason. if you have gear imbalance then this becomes crucial.

Sorry, my general experience is that whoever put together the PUG tends to determine the pace... after all, they're the one who actually took the initiative to form a group up instead of just spamming "50 Guardian LFG" on General again and again.

 

If you wanna be in charge, form your own group. Don't just expect to take charge of one someone else put together because you're a tank.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Sorry, my general experience is that whoever put together the PUG tends to determine the pace... after all, they're the one who actually took the initiative to form a group up instead of just spamming "50 Guardian LFG" on General again and again.

 

If you wanna be in charge, form your own group. Don't just expect to take charge of one someone else put together because you're a tank.

 

I believe we are talking about Flash Points (FP). For FPs you use the Group Finder (GF).

 

When you use GF, you end up in a Pick Up Group (PUG) that was not put together by anyone in particular and a random member is assigned the role of leader (basically, so he/she can requeue in GF if someone is removed/leaves).

 

In this situation, the "leadership role" tends to default to the Tank for the simple reason that he is normally the first one into the fight. The Tank becomes responsible for the pace of the run.

 

*BUT* EVERYONE is responsible for something *and* communicating with the rest of the group:

  • It is the Tank's responsibility to let the group know what he is going to do if he plans on doing anything other than charge in and attack the strongest mob.
  • If the Tank is going too fast for the Healer, it is the Healer's responsibility to make the Tank aware that he needs more time.
  • It is the DPS's responsibility to burn down the weaks/normals/strongs in a group while the Tank holds the attention of the Elite/Champion.
  • If a player has a Crowd Control (CC) ability, it is their responsibility to inform the group that they can CC and ask for/suggest CC targets.
  • If the Tank is new to the FP, it is his responsibility to warn that he is new to the FP and ask if anyone knows the FP so the group is not going in blind.
  • If a player knows the FP, it is his responsibility (no matter what his role) to explain the FP *as well as he can*.
  • If noone knows the FP, it becomes EVERYONE'S responsibility to work together to beat the FP.

 

Things start to go wrong when people refuse to acknowledge their own responsibility in the success of a group.

 

Some players will say that they never had to say anything and that their groups worked just fine. This *only* happens when everyone in the group knows what to do, assumes responsibility for it and just does it. No communication is needed when this is the case.

 

However, many times these same players, who say communication is not needed, are also the first to abandon a group when they run into less experienced players who don't understand their responsibilities and in so doing they are shirking their responsibilty to the group. If *you* are one of these players, and you see that you are with a less experienced group, step up and assume RESPONSIBILITY for the group's success. It becomes your responsibility to guide the group, explain what they should be doing (not HOW, but WHAT), and hold them together so the group can complete the FP.

 

When everyone assumes responsibility for the group's success, everyone enjoys themselves much more :). Tanks will enjoy tanking and will want to continue tanking. Healer's will enjoy healing and will want to continue healing. DPS... well... DPS always have a good time and will continue to be DPS no matter what happens :D.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

No, the tank sets the pace. Yes, you have to wait for your healer but that's not "setting the pace" that's having common sense. You can have / be a good healer but if your tank is slow the group isn't moving beyond that speed.

 

Yes, the tank is the group leader by default due to typical physical location in fights--in front. This is why tanks are played the least, it's not a role for timid people who hang back and follow. You don't have to bark orders or explain pulls but you do have to be the first player in, typically.

 

As for people "misbehaving" like pulling in front of me or what else have you (not sure what else there is that I'd be concerned about). If it's happening I just tell my group that I am not to be held responsible for pulls I don't execute. I don't let people die on purpose and I don't say anything else beyond that. If people die because I am having trouble with the pulls because now everything is spread / started on 3 different targets / etc my group has already been informed that it's not my problem because I was not the one pulling. If they want to change their ways and let me pull if we fall into trouble, they change. If we're not having trouble, then we're not, and there's no further discussion or change warranted.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • 3 weeks later...
I'm with you there. I tanked all the time on WoW. But leaving WoW and coming to swtor I don't really feel like dealing with stupid ppl. I don't always have the best armor for tanking so I just dps. But I still play the tanking tree for the higher survival when I'm questing.
Link to comment
Share on other sites

I tried playing tank - once. I am normally a very patient person, but - apparently there are some who have one hell of a lot more patience than I do.

 

Tank sets the pace - right behind whatever heals uses to keep him alive.

 

Tank sets the pace because Tank ALSO has cooldowns/energy levels/etc used to keep everyone else alive ... as well as the fact that it only makes sense for tank to go in first to grab all the mobs that will otherwise chew your faces off and crap down your throats.

 

My rule in my short career as a tank - you pull it you tank it. If you die, which is normally not even a "If" situation - well then maybe you'll learn something. Doubtful, if you're actually that stupid - but maybe.

 

Tank also sets the pace because unless people have been in that particular place enough times - he is usually the only one who knows where everything is, not always - as everyone has to learn .. but usually.

 

As far as people not listening/doing their own thing/etc etc. :

 

Once = "You pull it, you tank it - and don't whine about dying either" Unless it was an accident. ALTERNATIVELY - if you NEED all the DPS to keep the group alive. Let him fight the thing until he's almost dead. Then taunt it off of him, and tell him NOT to be that stupid again. Best to clue heals in beforehand with that strategy tho.

 

Twice = drop group. Going to be a waste of time because clearly these people have no common sense, and no sense of group coordination.

 

Me - I found my love with instances, and that is soloing them. The harder the better.

Edited by Akiviri
Link to comment
Share on other sites

×
×
  • Create New...