Jump to content

Pay2Win Space Missions ???


Dirtyshadow

Recommended Posts

No.

 

You can also buy them from the Special-Space-Items-vendor (forgot his real name ;) ), for Credits/DaylieComms/FleetComms

 

Actually I've only found 8 items so far to buy out of 9. I looked for the EMP generator on the fleet and mission support vendors but didn't find it on either. Found everything else (or in some cases crafting schematics) but not the EMP.

 

Am I correct to say that one of the new spaceship upgrades is cartel market exclusive?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Replies 921
  • Created
  • Last Reply

Top Posters In This Topic

Actually I've only found 8 items so far to buy out of 9. I looked for the EMP generator on the fleet and mission support vendors but didn't find it on either. Found everything else (or in some cases crafting schematics) but not the EMP.

 

Am I correct to say that one of the new spaceship upgrades is cartel market exclusive?

 

No - it is available in game:

http://dulfy.net/2012/11/20/swtor-patch-1-6-grade-7-starship-upgrades-and-hm-space-missions/

(thanks Jacen)

 

BJ

Edited by BJWyler
Link to comment
Share on other sites

To me this is not about these space missions in specific but the direction that Bioware seems to be taking. The game world, FOR ME, is a place where I should have the exact same chance at success as everyone else who plays it. Now obviously those who invest more time would reach the end goal faster than those who don't. That part is OK.

 

However creating "shortcuts" to achieve end game goals whatever they might be is not OK. First of all it defeats the purpose of the entire game. I mean it would be like if you started a single player at the very last boss in the game with best gear and everything. Defeat the boss... game over.

 

Second and more important, it kills any notion of achievement for those who actually did the grind to acquire this gear. At the very least Bioware should color code these items differently so if there is someone who acquired an armor set by grinding he/she and the others like him/her should be the only people that have say green version of that armor. All versions of the armor bought on cartel shop are some other color. Even better the cartel item should be slightly worse than the one acquired in the game. NOTHING in the cartel should be "best in game" items.

 

For me that would be almost as bad as the current implementation. This would still totally kill all the sense of progress and achievement (and challenge from earlier tiers).

 

Now if you could only buy / use the parts only after completing the earlier missions in combination to your suggestion might be a decent solution. Offering few of the items only as prize for completing certain missions and maybe one or two only with comms would be even better.

 

Somehow it seems Bioware completely forgot the basic rules of keeping a game interesting and are only going for a money grab. Buying better gear with grinded creds or a credit card is definitely the least interesting way to progress in a game.

 

For the previous question, in Ticklefist’s opinion, the current implementation of the CM smacks of P2W because the amount of grind required in game to obtain the ship upgrades is disproportionate to the amount of money it costs to buy them outright in the store (@$10 US) and skip the time and effort it takes to obtain them for free. Now, Tickle stated that if a full set of those parts could be gotten for 500,000 credits that would make selling them in the store more palatable. I specifically used the term Vendor in the question, but if this be the case, then wouldn’t the same hold true if buying them for a reasonable price on the GTN?

 

Now we are get to the crux of the second question I asked. Let’s take it for granted that we can all agree (despite what Anet says), that time played in a game roughly equates to some skill gained. In that a player who spends more time playing a game and learning the mechanics and content will become a better player (more skilled) than a player who does not put in as much time and effort.

 

Let’s also take it for granted that in a gear based game, skill is not the end all or be all of success, and that despite one’s skill, one also needs at least a minimal level of acceptable gear in order for survive long enough for his skills to bring him success. Now, I surmise from the posts I quoted above that there is more to the issue of selling end game gear in a cash shop, even if it is available for free in the game itself:

Epeen – the most dreaded word in gaming vernacular.

 

Again, I touched on my thoughts on the topic in the post that appears on page 35 of this thread. So let me ask this of Marko and Revive. Even if this gear is made available in the store, do you still not yet have the choice of how you wish to obtain it (via money, or via the traditional element of playing the required OP)? If you do indeed have that choice, and you enjoy playing the game and playing the Operations, why then would the fact that the armor appears in the cash shop affect your feeling of accomplishment in that you completed the content and reaped the reward in the manner that you enjoyed the most? Shouldn’t you be proud of your accomplishment regardless because you succeeded in performing it on your own terms?

 

BJ

Edited by BJWyler
Link to comment
Share on other sites

I was really excited about the new space missions/gear, and I tried to get as many commendations as I could for when 1.6 hit. Getting a full set was going to be a huge, satisfying accomplishment, making the new missions I'd be able to do all the more succulent.

 

All that has evaporated now. I'm not even interested in doing it anymore. It seems like they deliberately set the commendation costs and material requirements obscenely high to drive people to the cartel market.

 

It's also the reason for the catch-22 -- in order to complete the missions, you need the gear you can realistically only earn by doing them. Commendations from the other missions are too small, you'll go insane and it will take months or years.

 

Now, to me, doing it is not a big accomplishment, it's getting screwed by the scam. It's volunteering to be deliberately punished for not buying them with cartel coins.

 

EDIT: http://i.imgur.com/HLoVF.png

Edited by Felioats
Link to comment
Share on other sites

I could not beat the space missions with my current gear. If I want best-in-slot gear for my ship, I need to pay cash. If I pay cash, I can get all the rewards such as black hole comms and stabalizers I need to get full dread-guard relic armor. You can use real-life cash to get the highest end-game armor in the game.

 

Some say this is technically *not* pay to win, because the items are available in-game through other means (such as beating the raid content to begin win, or farming fleet/daily comms to buy the space gear).

 

Who cares about the term "pay to win", the point is it's "pay to do something that crosses a very clear line". Whatever it is called, buying end-game equipment for any area of the game is a mistake.

 

Pay to win, pay to skip, pay to gear up, whatever it's called, it sucks. :mad:

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Who cares about the term "pay to win", the point is it's "pay to do something that crosses a very clear line". Whatever it is called, buying end-game equipment for any area of the game is a mistake.

 

Pay to win, pay to skip, pay to gear up, whatever it's called, it sucks. :mad:

 

Why?

 

BJ

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Some say this is technically *not* pay to win, because the items are available in-game through other means (such as beating the raid content to begin win, or farming fleet/daily comms to buy the space gear).

 

Who cares about the term "pay to win", the point is it's "pay to do something that crosses a very clear line". Whatever it is called, buying end-game equipment for any area of the game is a mistake.

 

Pay to win, pay to skip, pay to gear up, whatever it's called, it sucks. :mad:

This, absolutely.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Why?

 

BJ

The reason is that many of us complaining don't like the idea that someone can simply cut the line we've been standing in just because they have money (or are willing to use that money). We feel it's a slimey move to basically sell a type of end game gear that should be worked for.

 

The extreme strawman is selling a maxed out character (legacy, valor, level, gear, etc.) from the Cartel Market. The problem is that this is a "tip of the iceberg, a possible start to a very bad trend." Many of us who are complaining feel they've already crossed the line.

 

I for one, won't mind if the line stopped HERE, but BW already crossed it. What's to stop them from moving it a little further... and then just a little further... until it gets to a point where people are buying endgame gear?

 

I'm going to reiterate: the selling of ship items that are top-tier doesn't bother me. What bothers me is that I feel like BW is sort of testing the water... which makes me feel like they may go down the dark path.

Edited by Lostpenguins
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Why?

 

BJ

Your responses are most creative sir :rolleyes:

 

However, a good part of the fun in MMOs is related to achievement. If you can shell out some cash and pluck the best gear in the game off the CM there's no achievement, ergo no fun. For some people this isn't an issue, but for any achievement-oriented player, this sucks.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Why?

 

BJ

 

Because paying cash to obtain gear:

1. Trivializes the accomplishment of obtaining a full set of best-in-slot space parts.

Your results from hours of gearing up are no different than someone who bought it day 1 for cash. Gearing up and competing with your friends to gear up is an important part of end-game. Many players derive enjoyment from competing with your guild mates to see who can be the first to beat content. Pay to win deprives you of that joy.

 

2. Trivializes the accomplishment of obtaining a full set of best-in-slot raid gear.

Again, many players compete to see who can be first to get full sets of end-game gear. The combination of end-game gear being craftable and the materials being available most easily for those that paid real-life cash, serves to cheapen this competition. It's like competing in a race where those that give a bribe to the race officials are given a head start. Pay to win deprives you of the joy of healthy competition.

 

3. Pay to win screws space ship part crafters

Cybertechs make ship parts. There are schematics for some of the new best-in-slot space parts. The crafting material requirements are inflated for these parts to make them harder to craft, yet they are are made easily available for real life cash. The high cost of the materials to the space parts makes it extremely difficult for a crafter to compete with a the real life cash cost.

 

Pay4BIS screws people who play PVE for competitive reasons.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Your responses are most creative sir :rolleyes:

 

However, a good part of the fun in MMOs is related to achievement. If you can shell out some cash and pluck the best gear in the game off the CM there's no achievement, ergo no fun. For some people this isn't an issue, but for any achievement-oriented player, this sucks.

 

Since no one is forcing you to pay ergo you can obtain all of those ship items via regular means in game there isn't much of a problem really.

Not to mention the fact that the space oriented part of the game is not competitive in any way whatsoever and that no one actually gives a damn what you, me or anyone else is achieving over there.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Since no one is forcing you to pay ergo you can obtain all of those ship items via regular means in game there isn't much of a problem really.

Not to mention the fact that the space oriented part of the game is not competitive in any way whatsoever and that no one actually gives a damn what you, me or anyone else is achieving over there.

Please see my post earlier. It's still irks many that there's a system to cut the line if you grease the bouncer's hand.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Thank you all for the responses. Let me copy over my questions from the previous post and ask them here (for anyone to chime in on):

 

Even if this gear is made available in the store, do you still not yet have the choice of how you wish to obtain it (via money, or via the traditional element of playing the required OP)?

Why should there be a need to "work" in a game - we work in real life, shouldn't we have more options available in a game to avoid "working" on a piece of content if we so choose?

If you do indeed have that choice, and you enjoy playing the game and playing the Operations, why then would the fact that the armor appears in the cash shop affect your feeling of accomplishment in that you completed the content and reaped the reward in the manner that you enjoyed the most?

Shouldn’t you be proud of your accomplishment regardless because you succeeded in performing it on your own terms?

 

If it is related to competition and Epeen, who then are you trying to impress?

If it the random stranger, again, why does what they think so important?

If it be the competition between like-minded individuals and groups, would it not then be logical to assume that you all would communicate your accomplishments with each other and thus be able to differentiate between those who performed the accomplishments and those who bought the end rewards?

 

BJ

Link to comment
Share on other sites

If it is related to competition and Epeen, who then are you trying to impress?

If it the random stranger, again, why does what they think so important?

If it be the competition between like-minded individuals and groups, would it not then be logical to assume that you all would communicate your accomplishments with each other and thus be able to differentiate between those who performed the accomplishments and those who bought the end rewards?

 

BJ

Clearly you are an enlightened individual who has overcome the weirdly human competitive spirit. Congrats.

 

Me? I'm still a competitive critter.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Oh comone guys! Stop whyning! First of all Space missions are not THE MUST& Anyone can survive without them. U do not realy need them to do... what? PvP? PvE? It is just fun nothing ese.

So you guys say they force us to pay money for new space missions because you cannot compete them without grade 7 equipment? Yes they do. They gave us new content and ask us to pay for it. Just like DLC or whatever. You wanted this game to be F2P - now you get the content for money. Why it is not fair? Look legit for me actually.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Clearly you are an enlightened individual who has overcome the weirdly human competitive spirit. Congrats.

 

Me? I'm still a competitive critter.

 

I am simply attempting to find solutions to problems so we can all help to make this a better game. Coming into a forum and posting "this sucks" rarely achieves that goal. Therefore, in the spirit that Thelrage posted a few pages ago, I am hoping to get an honest dialogue and discussion going here so we can find some common ground and solutions to problems to achieve that goal.

 

BJ

 

Oh, I am an extremely competitive individual by the way.

Edited by BJWyler
Link to comment
Share on other sites

A full set of upgrades can be had for about $2M credits on the GTN right now. ;)

 

Wait a week and you can probably get them for under $1M credits. ;)

 

The only people loosing out by this decision by Bioware is the greedy crafters who would prefer to corner the market early and charge you $5M per ships mod for a week and then whine about needing new recipes because they cannot make money anymore. ;)

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I am simply attempting to find solutions to problems so we can all help to make this a better game. Coming into a forum and posting "this sucks" rarely achieves that goal. Therefore, in the spirit that Thelrage posted a few pages ago, I am hoping to get an honest dialogue and discussion going here so we can find some common ground and solutions to problems to achieve that goal.

 

BJ

Perhaps I read too much into your questions but they seemed on the verge of being insulting to anyone who has a competitive nature. Games and competition go hand-in-hand. I won't apologize for grinning when I get a really good piece of gear that few other players have when I got it through hard work. To then turn around and see the same piece of gear on someone whose entire skillset is swiping a credit card degrades the entire experience for me.

 

Aside from the color crystals, I had little problem with what they offerred in the 1.5 CM. But to offer the top-end parts is too far.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

A full set of upgrades can be had for about $2M credits on the GTN right now. ;)

 

Wait a week and you can probably get them for under $1M credits. ;)

 

The only people loosing out by this decision by Bioware is the greedy crafters who would prefer to corner the market early and charge you $5M per ships mod for a week and then whine about needing new recipes because they cannot make money anymore. ;)

 

Got all mine for 100k each off the GTN think that is about 1 mil or a little over, not a big deal to me because the space side of this game is a mini game and the weekly takes longer than running the daily group finder for 5 BH coms. People ************ about this as P2W dont even do the space side of the game and only want to ***** to *****.

 

I would agree about P2W if it was PvP gear that was for sale on the Cartel Store or end game raiding gear, but over ship parts for space missons that will take an hour or more to complete once a week for 5 BH coms is just stupid.I do agree they should have been a schem for crafters.

 

But this is the way BW/EA wanted to do it and to me it is no big deal. It is space really are people that pissed off about space gear?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Got all mine for 100k each off the GTN think that is about 1 mil or a little over, not a big deal to me because the space side of this game is a mini game and the weekly takes longer than running the daily group finder for 5 BH coms. People ************ about this as P2W dont even do the space side of the game and only want to ***** to *****.

 

I would agree about P2W if it was PvP gear that was for sale on the Cartel Store or end game raiding gear, but over ship parts for space missons that will take an hour or more to complete once a week for 5 BH coms is just stupid.I do agree they should have been a schem for crafters.

 

But this is the way BW/EA wanted to do it and to me it is no big deal. It is space really are people that pissed off about space gear?

 

You and I are in complete agreement. :) Of course the crafters want an exclusive lock on the mods for a while so they can really scalp the player base. Bioware short circuited that though. :D

Edited by Andryah
Link to comment
Share on other sites

You and I are in complete agreement. :) Of course the crafters want an exclusive lock on the mods for a while so they can really scalp the player base. Bioware short circuited that though. :D

 

Well the prices bottomed out so fast because everyone was trying to under cut eachother and just made it simple for me to grab what I needed. I do want people that craft things to have that side but I hate the over pricing of crap and one reason i have made sure every toon I have made has been a different crafting profesion. Because crafting in this game is a joke and the over pricing by players is insane.So most of the time I do not have to buy anything from other crafters I can craft it myself or get a guildmate to do it for me

Link to comment
Share on other sites


×
×
  • Create New...