Jump to content

Kaggath Series: Grievous vs Malgus


Beniboybling

Recommended Posts

Dueling Wise: Grevious.

 

 

Anybody from the Prequel Era, Jedi or Sith would dominate pretty much 90% before them. Especially Grevious considering he went against the likes of Obi-wan Kenobi, Kit Fisto, Ki-Adi-Mundi, and survived.

 

 

Space Battle Wise: Malgus. Because Grevious kind of runs on superweapons and special weapons that his ships have.

Edited by BrandonSM
Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Replies 63
  • Created
  • Last Reply

Top Posters In This Topic

Dueling Wise: Grevious.

 

 

Anybody from the Prequel Era, Jedi or Sith would dominate pretty much 90% before them. Especially Grevious considering he went against the likes of Obi-wan Kenobi, Kit Fisto, Ki-Adi-Mundi, and survived.

While you make a good point, I would disagree. Grievous would definitely be able to hold his own against Malgus (i fear Malgus is becoming the next Revan...), as you said. But ulimately the likes of Obi-Wan and Kit Fisto were stronger than him, and Malgus was extremely powerful himself. So I'd give this to Malgus. Grievous has however, more than enough ability to hold his own in time for an escape, or for his droids to intervene.

 

Oh and Malgus is a Sith while those Grievous have fought were Jedi, Grievous would be unprepared for the vicious battle style a powerful sith brings to bear. (Also cyborg + force lightning probably don't mix well.)

Space Battle Wise: Malgus. Because Grevious kind of runs on superweapons and special weapons that his ships have.
I would partially agree with you here, Malgus' ships are far more superior. But the difference is that Grievous has far more at his disposal, so while there would a lot of defeats on Grievous' part, he has enough ships to wear Malgus down over time.

 

This is what the fight comes down to, I believe Malgus trumps Grievous in terms of ability i.e. lightsaber combat, navy ability, army ability. But Grievous has the advantage of numbers, and therefore can afford multiple defeats. Its whether Malgus can take out Grievous before Grievous wears him down, and as Grievous is a master escapist and skilled in combat, i don't think he would.

 

IMO: Grievous wins (i don't know what your stance is)

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Grievous has the numerical advantage and he's a competitent commander, but I say Malgus is probably the victor.

 

While they are both competitent commanders, the Battle Droids have often been fairly stupid, and I think Malgus will field troops that have enough wit to pull off unorthodox tactics which could tip things in Malgus's favor.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

General Grievous wins because:

 

1.) Numbers advantage

2.) Support of hundreds of worlds (Bigger power-base/ biological troops)

3.) Adaptable troops*

4.) General, not Emporer*

5.) Lack of 1v1 fight

 

* (3) = New arguement: The droid army had droids for every type of terrain. Underwater, space, ice and snow, swamp, you name it. If the battleground is the entire galaxy, this adaptability would prove an advantage over the more standard army soldiers of Malgus.

 

*(4) = New arguement: General Grievous knows how to comand an army. We see this in the Clones Wars, seeing as the CIS actually win many battles. But is Malgus a general? Well, at his height, he is an Emporer, which does not mean he directly tells his troops what to do. Correct me if I'm wrong, but I think Grievous's expirience as a General, not a ruler, would give his forces a tacticle edge in any battle.

 

Winner = Grievous

Link to comment
Share on other sites

General Grievous wins because:

 

1.) Numbers advantage

2.) Support of hundreds of worlds (Bigger power-base/ biological troops)

3.) Adaptable troops*

4.) General, not Emporer*

5.) Lack of 1v1 fight

 

* (3) = New arguement: The droid army had droids for every type of terrain. Underwater, space, ice and snow, swamp, you name it. If the battleground is the entire galaxy, this adaptability would prove an advantage over the more standard army soldiers of Malgus.

 

*(4) = New arguement: General Grievous knows how to comand an army. We see this in the Clones Wars, seeing as the CIS actually win many battles. But is Malgus a general? Well, at his height, he is an Emporer, which does not mean he directly tells his troops what to do. Correct me if I'm wrong, but I think Grievous's expirience as a General, not a ruler, would give his forces a tacticle edge in any battle.

 

Winner = Grievous

 

Malgus sacked Coruscant, he was a good General, he also didn't cower near the escape pods.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

The problem with this comparison is this: Greivous' droids. We see them shown in many different ways. In some cases they're depicted as emotionless robots who drown you with numbers, while in other instances, they are pathetic droids WHO GIVE UP (watch TCW). Since the latter droids are more commonly depicted in Star Wars, I will make my decision with pathetic droids in mind.

 

Also - how big would Malgus' army be? Is this when he went rogue? If so, I'm afraid he just lacks the resources and numbers to win. But if this is when he is commanding troops of the Sith Empire, then I really don't honestly know how many he'd have.

 

note: For arguments sake, I'll say that about 15 droids is the equivalent of 1 Imperial (this is a average of all the troops, Sith, and droids in the Imperial army)

 

I'll name the advantages here:

Best one-on-one duelist? Malgus

Best General? Close, but Malgus leads from the front lines + he's a force user so I'll give him the edge

Most numbers? Grievous (although the fact that his droids suck is a factor)

Best resources? Grievous

 

In the end, it all depends on how many men Malgus has at his disposal. So it's very hard to make a decision.

 

What the heck... MALGUS FOR THE WIN!!!!

Link to comment
Share on other sites

The problem with this comparison is this: Greivous' droids. We see them shown in many different ways. In some cases they're depicted as emotionless robots who drown you with numbers, while in other instances, they are pathetic droids WHO GIVE UP (watch TCW). Since the latter droids are more commonly depicted in Star Wars, I will make my decision with pathetic droids in mind.

 

Also - how big would Malgus' army be? Is this when he went rogue? If so, I'm afraid he just lacks the resources and numbers to win. But if this is when he is commanding troops of the Sith Empire, then I really don't honestly know how many he'd have.

 

note: For arguments sake, I'll say that about 15 droids is the equivalent of 1 Imperial (this is a average of all the troops, Sith, and droids in the Imperial army)

 

I'll name the advantages here:

Best one-on-one duelist? Malgus

Best General? Close, but Malgus leads from the front lines + he's a force user so I'll give him the edge

Most numbers? Grievous (although the fact that his droids suck is a factor)

Best resources? Grievous

 

In the end, it all depends on how many men Malgus has at his disposal. So it's very hard to make a decision.

 

What the heck... MALGUS FOR THE WIN!!!!

 

1.) Droid Wits

What you are refering to as the droids that give up are the B1 Battle droids. The brown, weak ones. However, the CIS army is MUCH more than those. Let's not foget B2 (Super) Battle droids, and countless other types (Scroll down to "Members" on this page: http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Separatist_Droid_Army ). Most were not as stupid and pathetic as the B1s, who were basically just a meat-sheild to protect tanks and other more valuble droids and attempt to overwhelm enemies with pure numbers.

 

2.) Malgus's Forces

Good question.... I kinda assumed it'd be when he went rouge, considering it's about his personal power base.... but I don't know. Either way, Grievous still wins on numbers.

 

3.) 15-1

Even with mainly "pathetic droids" (B1) at the Battle of Geonosis, 170 Jedi were killed. The fifteen to one comparison may be a little extreme considering that in the Battle of Geonosis 12,000 Clones died. Unfortunately we have no droid casualty to compare it to, but, as I said, even with these "Give-up droids" they were able to do lots of damage. Let's not forget that B1 is not the only type of droid.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I wouldn't compare twelve-thousand dead Clones who had no battle experience with hardened Imperial Troopers with decades of experience, including Kaleesh warriors and other alien fighters that Malgus has convinced to join in his cause. Also, when Malgus turned traitor, he took his power base with him. All those loyal to him went with him as he took control of the Emperor's mobile battle station, which he used to outfit his fleet with stealth generators. That is a huge advantage over Grievous.

 

Both Malgus' fleet and the station are cloaked. This enables Malgus to attack at any time of his choosing, undetected and without warning. Numbers don't amount to much in the face of an enemy it cannot see or detect. All they can go on is the light of the blaster fire.

 

What we have is a case of Quality vs Quantity. Malgus has Quality soldiers, equipment, technology, Sith and a mobile base of operations. Grievous has Quantity; numerous droids of various makes and a fleet of ships. Despite the different types of Droids under his command, most, if not all of them, are still bested by Clone Troopers. Super Battle Droids aren't that tough. Commando Droids are probably the only real threat, but can still be taken down. Destroyers would be a nuisance, but as we've seen there are ways passed their personal shields and they have an easily exploitable weakness.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

1.) Droid Wits

What you are refering to as the droids that give up are the B1 Battle droids. The brown, weak ones. However, the CIS army is MUCH more than those. Let's not foget B2 (Super) Battle droids, and countless other types (Scroll down to "Members" on this page: http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Separatist_Droid_Army ). Most were not as stupid and pathetic as the B1s, who were basically just a meat-sheild to protect tanks and other more valuble droids and attempt to overwhelm enemies with pure numbers.

 

2.) Malgus's Forces

Good question.... I kinda assumed it'd be when he went rouge, considering it's about his personal power base.... but I don't know. Either way, Grievous still wins on numbers.

 

3.) 15-1

Even with mainly "pathetic droids" (B1) at the Battle of Geonosis, 170 Jedi were killed. The fifteen to one comparison may be a little extreme considering that in the Battle of Geonosis 12,000 Clones died. Unfortunately we have no droid casualty to compare it to, but, as I said, even with these "Give-up droids" they were able to do lots of damage. Let's not forget that B1 is not the only type of droid.

 

I don't know what the ratio (in the droid army) of pathetic droids to non-pathetic droids, but we see WAY more pathetic droids in episodes 1, 2, 3, and the TCW then other droids.

 

You're right though, we don't know exactly how many droids were killed at Geonosis, so let's observe TCW for this. Remember the 2nd battle of Geonosis. Anakin says he killed somewhere around 50 droids, and Ki-Adi-Mundi killed around 60 (I think). Obviously, the average of the Imperial army won't be 50 or 60, but it'll be high. Look at the clones. I've got no idea how many men Rex killed in his life. Or take Heavy from the rookies episode. He killed DOZENS of droids - and he hadn't had any previous battle experience!

 

The fact remains: the vast majority of the droid army is made up of pathetic droids, and the pathetic droids are... well....pathetic.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I wouldn't compare twelve-thousand dead Clones who had no battle experience with hardened Imperial Troopers with decades of experience, including Kaleesh warriors and other alien fighters that Malgus has convinced to join in his cause. Also, when Malgus turned traitor, he took his power base with him. All those loyal to him went with him as he took control of the Emperor's mobile battle station, which he used to outfit his fleet with stealth generators. That is a huge advantage over Grievous.

 

Both Malgus' fleet and the station are cloaked. This enables Malgus to attack at any time of his choosing, undetected and without warning. Numbers don't amount to much in the face of an enemy it cannot see or detect. All they can go on is the light of the blaster fire.

 

What we have is a case of Quality vs Quantity. Malgus has Quality soldiers, equipment, technology, Sith and a mobile base of operations. Grievous has Quantity; numerous droids of various makes and a fleet of ships. Despite the different types of Droids under his command, most, if not all of them, are still bested by Clone Troopers. Super Battle Droids aren't that tough. Commando Droids are probably the only real threat, but can still be taken down. Destroyers would be a nuisance, but as we've seen there are ways passed their personal shields and they have an easily exploitable weakness.

 

I would take quality over quantity any day.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I wouldn't compare twelve-thousand dead Clones who had no battle experience with hardened Imperial Troopers with decades of experience.

 

Or take Heavy from the rookies episode. He killed DOZENS of droids - and he hadn't had any previous battle experience!

 

You're working against your own argument here. Clones were literally programmed to be warriors. They spent their entire lives training. Their programming and life-time of war readyness is why they were such effective troops. To say that an Imperial (from SWTOR) would be a better soldier than a clone is completely inaccurate.

 

If anything, Malgus's forces would be the ones not ready to face the droid army.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

You're working against your own argument here. Clones were literally programmed to be warriors. They spent their entire lives training. Their programming and life-time of war readyness is why they were such effective troops. To say that an Imperial (from SWTOR) would be a better soldier than a clone is completely inaccurate.

 

If anything, Malgus's forces would be the ones not ready to face the droid army.

 

The clones (the regular ones) are not THAT superior to Imperials. Remember stormtroopers?

 

Any how, if that's not good enough for you, then how about this: Have you seen the Onderon story arc in TCW season 5? The rebels get a FEW DAYS of training and they still make the droids look pathetic. The Imperials are doubtlessly better then those rebels.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

The clones (the regular ones) are not THAT superior to Imperials. Remember stormtroopers?

 

Any how, if that's not good enough for you, then how about this: Have you seen the Onderon story arc in TCW season 5? The rebels get a FEW DAYS of training and they still make the droids look pathetic. The Imperials are doubtlessly better then those rebels.

 

*Facepalm* The Stormtroopers are NOT clones. Well, the ones in episode IV aren't. Clones age twice as fast as normal humans, and clone production on Kamino stopped at the end of the clone wars. In that 20 year gap, the remaining clones aged twice as fast. Meaning that even ones made at the very end would end up being 40 by the time of A New Hope. Humans were recruited to fill the ranks of the Stormtroopers and clones quickly became a minority. So yes, I remember Stormtroopers, and how hardly any of them were clones.

 

Those were rebels. Terrorists. That wasn't an actual battle. Are droids weak against a covert strike on one of their minor bases? Maybe. But that does not mean that they are any less deadly on an actual battlefield where they have their full numbers. Army vs. army is much different than strike team vs. small battalion.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

*Facepalm* The Stormtroopers are NOT clones. Well, the ones in episode IV aren't. Clones age twice as fast as normal humans, and clone production on Kamino stopped at the end of the clone wars. In that 20 year gap, the remaining clones aged twice as fast. Meaning that even ones made at the very end would end up being 40 by the time of A New Hope. Humans were recruited to fill the ranks of the Stormtroopers and clones quickly became a minority. So yes, I remember Stormtroopers, and how hardly any of them were clones.

 

Those were rebels. Terrorists. That wasn't an actual battle. Are droids weak against a covert strike on one of their minor bases? Maybe. But that does not mean that they are any less deadly on an actual battlefield where they have their full numbers. Army vs. army is much different than strike team vs. small battalion.

 

"I find your lack of faith in Imperials...disturbing." lol just kidding.

 

But do you think that Imperials are incapable of guirella warfare? Maglus isn't an idiot. He'd have plenty of that stuff up his sleeve. Remember, he's the guy in TOR that sends all Imperial strike teams out to do stuff. He knows all about that kind of stuff.

 

You don't seem to realize how bad regular droids are. What about Padme? She kicked droid butt! How much training did she have? She had HANDMAIDEN training! 99% of Imperials are gonna be better equiped and better trained then she was, and yet she also makes the droids look pathetic. Tell me; how many droids did she killed in her time? I'm pretty sure she killed over 15 of them.

 

Also (I'm not certain about this) but I think Malgus would have more Sith at his disposal then the Republic had Jedi in TCW.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Actually if you read TFU2, they didn't stop cloning after the end of the Clone Wars. Palpatine kept up production. The bulk of his army was made of clones. The majority of all ST's that you see are clones. At least until someone busts the factories, like the Rebels did on Kamino with Starkiller's help.
Link to comment
Share on other sites

"I find your lack of faith in Imperials...disturbing." lol just kidding.

 

But do you think that Imperials are incapable of guirella warfare? Maglus isn't an idiot. He'd have plenty of that stuff up his sleeve. Remember, he's the guy in TOR that sends all Imperial strike teams out to do stuff. He knows all about that kind of stuff.

 

You don't seem to realize how bad regular droids are. What about Padme? She kicked droid butt! How much training did she have? She had HANDMAIDEN training! 99% of Imperials are gonna be better equiped and better trained then she was, and yet she also makes the droids look pathetic. Tell me; how many droids did she killed in her time? I'm pretty sure she killed over 15 of them.

 

Also (I'm not certain about this) but I think Malgus would have more Sith at his disposal then the Republic had Jedi in TCW.

 

Good point about the strike teams, but I'm not sure it would win a war against an army as large as the CIS.... unless they found the magic Off-Switch.

 

Oh, that's not fair! I have a soft spot for Padme. Good thing I'm defending her. I would like to point out that she is not and never was a handmaiden. She was a queen. She only posed as a handmaiden to protect her true identity. She DID have training in self-defense and blaster use, at the suggestion of her guard captain, Panaka. She was not just randomly pointing and shooting a blaster, she knows how to handle herself, as we have seen time and time again. Examples of how certain people (main characters even) killed lots of droids doesn't really do anything for this debate because we can only assume that they are the exceptions, not the norm.

 

Not sure about how many Sith Malgus had..... but the Jedi Order during the Clone Wars had thousands of Jedi.... at least, I assume they did. Does anyone have a number of Jedi at the start of the Clone Wars?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Actually if you read TFU2, they didn't stop cloning after the end of the Clone Wars. Palpatine kept up production. The bulk of his army was made of clones. The majority of all ST's that you see are clones. At least until someone busts the factories, like the Rebels did on Kamino with Starkiller's help.

 

http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Clone_stormtrooper

"After the Kamino uprising, the Emperor decided that an army of genetically identical soldiers was too susceptible to corruption. Future troopers would be cloned from a variety of templates. Though the 501st itself remained pure, gradually, the rest of the Imperial Army became more and more diverse. We never really got used to the new guys." ―Retired clone trooper

 

Clone stormtroopers were the original elite soldiers of the Galactic Empire. After the fall of the Galactic Republic and the formation of Emperor Palpatine's New Order, the Republic Grand Army's clone troopers were re-designated as stormtroopers. Throughout the early years of Palpatine's reign, the Empire continued to utilize the Jango Fett template, but later commissioned the creation of new troopers from different genetic sources. Cloning remained essential to the Imperial Military, although the introduction of birth-born recruits into the ranks of the Stormtrooper Corps gradually reduced clone soldiers to a minority status.

 

Did a little more research and found that production of clones did happen, but to a much lesser extent. Clones were in no way the majority of stormtroopers.

 

Please also note that you're talking about events before episode IV. His army might have been mostly clones at the time of TFU2, but by a New Hope (where the stupid aim comes in) those clones have outlived their usefulness.

Edited by Warren-Stride
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Good point about the strike teams, but I'm not sure it would win a war against an army as large as the CIS.... unless they found the magic Off-Switch.

 

Oh, that's not fair! I have a soft spot for Padme. Good thing I'm defending her. I would like to point out that she is not and never was a handmaiden. She was a queen. She only posed as a handmaiden to protect her true identity. She DID have training in self-defense and blaster use, at the suggestion of her guard captain, Panaka. She was not just randomly pointing and shooting a blaster, she knows how to handle herself, as we have seen time and time again. Examples of how certain people (main characters even) killed lots of droids doesn't really do anything for this debate because we can only assume that they are the exceptions, not the norm.

 

Not sure about how many Sith Malgus had..... but the Jedi Order during the Clone Wars had thousands of Jedi.... at least, I assume they did. Does anyone have a number of Jedi at the start of the Clone Wars?

 

The thing is, nearly all of the Imperials are gonna have more/better training then Padme.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Just want to clarify here, maybe I didn't make this clear enough. But I said at the beginning

Malgus has command over his splinter Sith Empire
(quoting myself :D)

So where talking about the splinter Empire you faced in Battle of Ilum and False Emperor.

 

But anyway, ReiKai summed it up perfectly. Quality vs Quantity. Malgus has quality troops, ships etc - while Grievous has tonnes of just about everything (even arms, lol) However, Malgus has quality but lacks quantity. While Grievous has quantity, but also quality to a certain extent. After all, you can bash battle droids as much as you like but the fact is they are extremely adaptable and did manage to hold their own against the Republic for 3 years. As did the CIS Navy. So I think while Malgus trumps Grievous on quality, he doesn't trump him as much as Grievous trumps Malgus on quantity - if you get my meaning.

 

Oh and just a reminder, all they have to do to win is kill their opponent, not necessarily destroy their power bases. Just a heads up seeing as this is a complicated debate.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Just want to clarify here, maybe I didn't make this clear enough. But I said at the beginning (quoting myself :D)

So where talking about the splinter Empire you faced in Battle of Ilum and False Emperor.

 

But anyway, ReiKai summed it up perfectly. Quality vs Quantity. Malgus has quality troops, ships etc - while Grievous has tonnes of just about everything (even arms, lol) However, Malgus has quality but lacks quantity. While Grievous has quantity, but also quality to a certain extent. After all, you can bash battle droids as much as you like but the fact is they are extremely adaptable and did manage to hold their own against the Republic for 3 years. As did the CIS Navy. So I think while Malgus trumps Grievous on quality, he doesn't trump him as much as Grievous trumps Malgus on quantity - if you get my meaning.

 

Oh and just a reminder, all they have to do to win is kill their opponent, not necessarily destroy their power bases. Just a heads up seeing as this is a complicated debate.

 

It has been an interesting debate. Good thread.

 

It's nice to argue about something BESIDES Revan. lol

Link to comment
Share on other sites

It's nice to argue about something BESIDES Revan. lol

*evil cackle* Guess what the next thread is... Traya vs Revan! Heads will roll! Mwaha, mwaha, mwahahahahaha! :jawa_evil:

 

P.S. Don't feel you have to end the debate guys, you can keep debating till the cows come home :D

Edited by Beniboybling
Link to comment
Share on other sites

If we're including power bases here, does that mean Grievous gets Admiral Trench? Since Grievous is the Supreme Commander, I would assume so.

Oh Aurbere, must you ask difficult questions!

 

In a sense this contradicts one of the ground rules:

No outside help of any kind, the combatants cannot call upon assets that are not their own. In this case, this all excludes other prominent powers/allies of the era, e.g. Darth Serevin, Asajj Ventress.

But it depends if you consider Admiral Trench to be prominent. Seeing as he was a highly skilled commander with his own mini-power base, I'd say yes. This is a fight between Grievous and Malgus. Trench is a figure in his own right - request denied :D

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Oh Aurbere, must you ask difficult questions!

 

In a sense this contradicts one of the ground rules:

 

But it depends if you consider Admiral Trench to be prominent. Seeing as he was a highly skilled commander with his own mini-power base, I'd say yes. This is a fight between Grievous and Malgus. Trench is a figure in his own right - request denied :D

 

The reason I asked is because Admiral Trench would be helpful in finding Malgus' cloaked ships. But since he is unavailable, I would have to say that Malgus would win the space battle then. But only just, as the CIS has the swarms of droid fighters to rapidly respond to an attack.

 

As for land. I gotta go with Grievous' forces. In a straight up fight, the numbers are just too overwhelming. Now if Malgus played his cards right, he could pull it out.

 

The duel? Malgus has the advantage of the Force, but Grievous has killed powerful Jedi. Which Grievous are we talking about though? 2D, TCW, or both?

Link to comment
Share on other sites


×
×
  • Create New...