Jump to content

Nothing much changes in 3000 years?


LizardSF

Recommended Posts

So... nothing much changes in 3000 years?

 

As I understand it, the Old Republic era is about 3000 years prior to the battle of Yaavin/the original movies.

 

The spacecraft, droids, weapons, and even clothing and hairstyles barely look any different.

 

The hutts are all corrupt gangsters in the movie era; they're all corrupt gangsters here. The same races that are dominant 3000 years from now (except the Sith, of course) are dominant now. Whatever a world will be like 3000 years in the future, it's like now.

 

If one character did something, wore something, or said something in the movies, it seems that it's become a universal trait of their entire race. Every Hutt preserves people in carbonite and has a fetish for humanoid women and a rancor pit. Every Rodian is a sleazy wannabe tough guy.

 

It's kind of like setting a game in Ancient Rome... except that it's the United States of Rome, which is in a cold war with the Union Of Soviet Socialist Visigoths, and everyone has 9mm automatics, flies in jet planes, and drives a car. :)

 

I don't blame Bioware for this; they got their marching orders from Lucasfilms when it comes to creating backstory. It just seems like it's a hell of a missed opportunity. Instead of a Star Wars universe that's almost unrecognizable (maybe droid technology is very primitive, and Tatooine is a lush agricultural world, and races we've never heard of have political dominance while common races like Wookies haven't even been contacted yet), it's pretty much identical to the movie-era universe. About the only reason I see for the Old Republic existing, for gaming purposes, is that it lets there be Jedi everywhere, one of the problems with SWG in terms of being set in the original trilogy era.

 

This doesn't make the game any less fun or hinder my enjoyment much; I'd just like to know what everyone was doing for 3000 years. No scientists, engineers, or inventors? The same staticy holograms, the same weapon technology, the same types of droids?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Replies 110
  • Created
  • Last Reply

Top Posters In This Topic

I personally think a series of intergalactic civil wars and trying to maintain solid progress across thousands of worlds causes a stifle in innovation, everyone wants to be like the next and no one innovates because of it really. Ingame it seems like the only innovators are rebels or renegade sith lords.
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Looks < Function

 

And ya there are some vast differences in technology such as but not limiting.

 

Kolto is replaced with Bacta

 

Medical Droids become smarter and more equipped, as do other droids.

 

Warships/Military technology becomes far more advanced.

 

If your telling me an Old Republic Fleet could match up against a Clone, Rebellion, or Empire Fleet I am laughing.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I personally think a series of intergalactic civil wars and trying to maintain solid progress across thousands of worlds causes a stifle in innovation, everyone wants to be like the next and no one innovates because of it really. Ingame it seems like the only innovators are rebels or renegade sith lords.

 

Because history has shown that nothing slows down technological progress like war...

 

Oh wait...

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Because history has shown that nothing slows down technological progress like war...

 

Oh wait...

 

History doesn't account for trying to maintain a government that rules thousands of worlds while simultaneously fighting a war either, full planets were wiped of life during these conflicts, who knows what technology was lost and had to be regained/relearned in these time periods.

 

If I remember right, part of the goal of Archaeologists in this time is dual edged, to learn about the past but also specifically to find lost technology.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Looks < Function

 

And ya there are some vast differences in technology such as but not limiting.

 

Kolto is replaced with Bacta

 

Medical Droids become smarter and more equipped, as do other droids.

 

Warships/Military technology becomes far more advanced.

 

If your telling me an Old Republic Fleet could match up against a Clone, Rebellion, or Empire Fleet I am laughing.

 

OK, I'll buy that in terms of the background fiction, but how much of it do we see? For example, do we see different fleet strategies or ship types because of inferior weapons, or are the main battle ships noticeably smaller than the Clone-era cruisers? Does anything in-game indicate, "Hey, if this were 3000 years later, you'd have been healed by now"? From a game mechanic perspective, it seems we still have instant healing, the droids don't seem different (to me) from the later era droids, etc. (Caveat: Some of them do look bulkier/larger, which is nice, implying more primitive technology. I guess I'd like to see more obvious things. For example, compare the Star Trek TOS communicators to the Next Gen communicators -- you instantly see, "Hey, this is a LOT more advanced".)

 

Due mostly to the limits of SFX budgets, the technology of the first movie looks a lot more primitive than the technology of TOR. :)

 

Don't get me wrong.... I'm having a lot of fun in the game. I just wish there was more a sense of "This is the distant past of the galaxy". Perhaps I'm asking for something that can't be feasibly done within the constraints of making a playable game; it wouldn't be the first time, and playability must always be the primary concern.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

The reason for this has probably got more to do with creative freedom than with actual consistency of design or fiction. The setting first came up with KOTOR (ten years ago?). It still had to be 'star wars-y' and Lucas still had to sign off on everything, which means including a lot of the token stuff people expect from Star Wars -- but Bioware had the freedom to write their own history and lore rather than rubbing up against any of the movie characters or timelines, which would have meant a lot more restriction on how 'important' anything the main character might do could be.

 

Star Wars is in pretty desperate need of a reboot, but that won't happen for a while if ever. Until then, Bio probably got away with more than any other company could have. It is a little silly that so much is exactly like it will be in 3000 years, but I can't think of how else they'd have kept even the freedom they do have. This is a Lucas thing, though, not a Bioware thing. I'd bet on it.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

We can presume that incremental advancements were made over the 3000 between TOR and TNH (i.e. hyperdrives in the movies > hyperdrives in TOR), but in addition to what others have said about the various wars that have raged across the galaxy the fact is that technological plateaus do exist. We have been spoiled by the fact that we are living in an era of rapid technological advancement, so it's hard to forget that for about 2000 years humanity used various iterations of essentially the same weapons (spears, axes, swords, etc.). It takes a lot of factors for major advancements in technology to happen, so it's not at all surprising that people are still using lasers and proton torpedoes 3000 years later.
Link to comment
Share on other sites

The reason for this has probably got more to do with creative freedom than with actual consistency of design or fiction. The setting first came up with KOTOR (ten years ago?). It still had to be 'star wars-y' and Lucas still had to sign off on everything, which means including a lot of the token stuff people expect from Star Wars -- but Bioware had the freedom to write their own history and lore rather than rubbing up against any of the movie characters or timelines, which would have meant a lot more restriction on how 'important' anything the main character might do could be.

 

Star Wars is in pretty desperate need of a reboot, but that won't happen for a while if ever. Until then, Bio probably got away with more than any other company could have. It is a little silly that so much is exactly like it will be in 3000 years, but I can't think of how else they'd have kept even the freedom they do have. This is a Lucas thing, though, not a Bioware thing. I'd bet on it.

 

I know people who have worked with SW properties in the past (no one at BW, though), and, yeah, Lucasarts can be a bear to work with when it comes to getting approval. Then Lucas, the man, not the corporation, basically ignores all the backstory other people have created. :)

 

I see your point, as well, on "Star Warsyness". It has to be "Star Wars" to the average non-fanboy who just watches the movies: Jedi, lightsabers, wookies, droids. So the degree of difference that's possible while still having an iconic product might be fairly small.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I don't see this Sith Empire blowing up planets...though I've only played for an hour so far.

 

Actually, that's kind of my point... the technological progress we see in the movie era, and the immediate post-movie media (like Dark Empire) is very rapid. We go from the Clone Wars era starships to things like the Super Star Destroyer, and to weapons like the Sun Crusher a few years after that. When I played TIE Fighter (which should give you an idea how old and cranky I am), every few missions we had a "new, experimental" craft, with things like deflector shields, tractor beams, and so on being added to the basic model, with most of the fluff text and backstory talking about what great inventions these were, coming in a span of a few months/ a few years of a story time. So if TIE fighter took me from "flying eggshell" to "hyperspace capable, shielded, death machine" in the space of a few years, why does going back 3000 years give me craft that are basically not much worse than the baseline imperial fighter of the movie era? (Of course, you can argue everything just scales down -- it's one-tenth as fast, and its weapons do one-tenth the damage, but everything else is just as primitive, so the RELATIVE power seems the same.)

 

 

(I have a personal preference for ancient, stagnant settings; there's something nicely mythological about them. I was wondering if there was an official reason/backstory.)

Link to comment
Share on other sites

As said it is a way to have a reboot of the Star Wars universe with rebooting it. It is just to give a reason for the game setting and to have bunches of Jedi and Sith fighting it out. I personally just think of it as a alt universe and leave it at that.
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Congratulations! You've discovered the core tenant of the entire Star Wars EU.

 

Clearly, my BA has not gone to waste. :) For my next trick, I'll discuss the monomyth of the hero. I'll be no one's heard THAT related to Star Wars before!

 

There's probably something on TVTropes about the "The first character of an alien race we meet is the archetype for all members of that race throughout the setting."

Link to comment
Share on other sites

To be honest, there is an explained reason canon wise as to why there is seemingly little difference in technology between SWTOR and the movie era.

 

Do you remember the Roman Empire? How they made all kinds of technological advancements that marveled the world, only to get destroyed by warfare with barbarians and the like that plunged Europe into a Dark Age where no one could figure out how to work the old roman technology and how they did what they did?

 

The Republic Dark Age was the term given to the last century of the New Sith Wars, from around 1,100 BBY to the Ruusan Reformation of 1,000 BBY. During the Dark Age, the Republic, in the eyes of later centuries, had essentially ceased to exist.

 

Since the start of the Draggulch Period in 2,000 BBY, the Republic had been in decline. During the series of conflicts known as the New Sith Wars, thousands of worlds were abandoned to the New Sith Empire, while more were abandoned during the Republic's retreat. Thousands of longstanding corporations went bankrupt; lawlessness spread as the Republic government became increasingly overburdened and ineffectual; and numerous mines of valuable minerals dried up. The collapse escalated following the Sith victory at the Battle of Mizra in 1,466 BBY

 

However, all these events were merely a prelude to the Dark Age. The Senate granted almost all of its authority to the Supreme Chancellor, many of whom were Jedi at that point, such as Jedi Master Genarra. Throughout the galaxy Jedi joined in bands to defend individual worlds, and even regions of space, from Sith, pirates, slavers and warlords. In some regions, the Jedi supported existing governments, though in others, Jedi became rulers themselves in order to protect the population from external threats. The more troubled regions of the galaxy were divided by the Supreme Chancellors into Jedi baronial sectors, in an attempt to coordinate the continuing war against the Sith. Although the unity of the Sith seems to have been broken by infighting, and the ongoing conflict was officially portrayed as merely a series of clashes against an illegal organization, the situation wore down the Republic Navy and Army, which likewise fell under increasing Jedi control.

 

The Republic could no longer afford to maintain the HoloNet beyond the Core Worlds, so communications between worlds outside the Core had to be maintained through couriers. Even worse, a galaxywide epidemic of Candorian plague killed off as much as two-thirds of the population of some worlds

 

The reforms were enacted by then-Chancellor Tarsus Valorum and also resulted in the Republic Measures & Standards Bureau resetting the year zero to the year of the Seventh Battle of Ruusan, which would come to be known as 1,000 BBY by the Galactic Standard Calendar.

 

The system of government did not seem to change too dramatically (as the Republic had been ruled by a Supreme Chancellor and the Galactic Senate as early as 15,000 BBY) but the Jedi Order underwent a significant adjustment. In symbolic measures, largely to convince the Republic that they would not become a conquering army, the Jedi abandoned their battle armor, renounced all military ranks (such as "Jedi Lord"), dissolved their commander-in-chief, disbanded their army, naval and starfighter forces, and placed themselves under the supervision of the Supreme Chancellor and the Judicial Department, effectively dissolving the Military. In order to lessen the chance of a Sith resurgence, the Order began training children from birth. In addition, the training of Padawans was centralized on Coruscant, to remove the danger of unsupervised students delving into forbidden Sith knowledge.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

To be honest, there is an explained reason canon wise as to why there is seemingly little difference in technology between SWTOR and the movie era.

 

Do you remember the Roman Empire? How they made all kinds of technological advancements that marveled the world, only to get destroyed by warfare with barbarians and the like that plunged Europe into a Dark Age where no one could figure out how to work the old roman technology and how they did what they did?

 

Thanks for that bit of lore; it's very cool. Now I wish the game was set during those tumultuous dark ages. :)

Link to comment
Share on other sites

One explanation I've heard is that it's an old galaxy. According to the galaxy's timeline, intersteller travel appeared 2 million years before the Battle of Yavin. Think about just how young our known galaxy is compared to that number. Voyager 1, launched in 1977, is just about to hit the space in between our solar system and intersteller space. After another 1.7 million years of our technological advances, how much farther will we go between that date and 2 million?

 

The other explanation I've heard is, you know, it's all fantasy. The rules vary based on the requirements of the story.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

The republic has been around for 17,000+ years at this point, at some point civilizations stop progressing once they reach their peak. Now that the empire is back, things will start to change as the game progresses I would imagine because war always induces technological advances and such. Good point though.

:cool:

Link to comment
Share on other sites


×
×
  • Create New...