If everyone who saw a problem in the WZs or the game in general did what you "want them" to do then you can be sure that the few of you that remain will not be able to keep SWTOR up an running and it would have to close within 3 months due to not enough funds...

 

But hey, there is always the person, or people, who think only their opinions matter and only they should be listened to huh?...

Hey, common sense isn't welcome here

Opinions based on knee jerk reaction and assuming the numbers and motivations of others fit your own actually shouldn't matter.

 

That's my beef, premades existed since the beginning, yknow what ruined non-ranked warzones for a bunch of people? Server transfers. On BC a massive chunk of the pvp population that knew what they were about transferred to bastion or pot5. My assumption is that a similar thing happened on other servers. If the end result is anything like bc, even solo que vs solo que can be like ripping out teeth without a decent premade to go on. I've had matches as a sniper where i was held to under 500k damage, and still managed to outdamage the entire rest of my team. Edit: And I don't mean top damage, I mean I did more damage than the entire rest of the team combined, add all their damage up...1 player did more yet was under 500k

....

My opinion isn't based on knee-jerk reaction, but on having played the game since beta and having been on both sides of the fence.

It's ironic that when people such as yourself and some others don't like someone's opinion you either start insulting those people, or you claim their opinions don't matter...

There is such a thing as constructive criticism, insulting and belittling people's opinion is not constructive criticism, it is simply trolling.

Im not sure what you think my post meant, but the part I bolded was exceptionally hypocritical.

Really? you should check what the word "hypocritical" means. Nothing I wrote was hypocritical. I gave my opinion on what I see as a problem and added that what others were saying were also part of the problem.

No but saying that the MASSIVE LOSS IN PVP PLAYING is from premades is a knee jerk reaction based on tortured numbers. Premades existed as long as pvp did, yet the major losses in pvpers have always come on the heels of announcements. Season 1 delay, massive loss in pvpers, Server transfers, suddenly the quality of player on every server not bastion or pot5 sinks into the toilet, removing ranked 8v8, pvp ques start to die.

I have at the very least correlations, what do YOU have supporting that it's premades causing all these people to quit pvp? Not a damn thing.

Why can't people just admit they aren't as good as they think? Instead of giving every excuse for why they lose?

 

Regular warzones are based a majority on personal skill.

You should start by trying to write some sentences that make sense. WZs are not just about one person's skills since you are playing against 8 others and with 6-7 other players... The wrong group make up, or having completely new people in a pug who don't have, or don't use TS, or any other communication program, and don't know much about pvp influences the outcome of the WZs.

It is naïve to try to claim that people who see a problem with pugs vs pre-made are "all just bad". I have fought against 2 opponents by myself and won, and have had two opponents kill me. Two good opponents can kill easily one good opponent, and an entire pre-made team can pretty much farm the entire opposite pug team most of the time...

What it seems is that every one of you who keep trying to pound on me love to farm pugs instead of trying to listen to others.

Really? you should check what the word "hypocritical" means. Nothing I wrote was hypocritical. I gave my opinion on what I see as a problem and added that what others were saying were also part of the problem.

If everyone who saw a problem in the WZs or the game in general did what you "want them" to do then you can be sure that the few of you that remain will not be able to keep SWTOR up an running and it would have to close within 3 months due to not enough funds...

 

But hey, there is always the person, or people, who think only their opinions matter and only they should be listened to huh?...

Which was in response to cycao telling that unclesam hooligan to quit.

To summarize your post: if everyone that whined about premades obeyed cycao and quit, there wouldnt be many players left. Then: a crack about how some people think only their opinions are correct and should be listened too (pretty obviously directed at cycao, or why else was he quoted?)

So you basically say that the premade-whiners are entitled to their opinions and they should be heard, but then degrade the validity of cycao's opinion b/c it is the opposite (pretty sure cycao thinks premades are fine and most bads are just bad).

If thats not clear cut hypocrisy then Im a Jawa.

Which was in response to cycao telling that unclesam hooligan to quit.

 

To summarize your post: if everyone that whined about premades obeyed cycao and quit, there wouldnt be many players left. Then: a crack about how some people think only their opinions are correct and should be listened too (pretty obviously directed at cycao, or why else was he quoted?)

 

So you basically say that the premade-whiners are entitled to their opinions and they should be heard, but then degrade the validity of cycao's opinion b/c it is the opposite (pretty sure cycao thinks premades are fine and most bads are just bad).

 

If thats not clear cut hypocrisy then Im a Jawa.

Now you are twisting everything around... My response was to cycao and/or others claiming that people who have any constructive criticism about WZs, trying to better the game for EVERYONE, should shut up or leave... That's clearly what you, cycao and others are saying...

Not only that, but you are even belittling more our arguments by claiming "it is whinning"... If you have EVER given an opinion in this forum to better the game FOR EVERYONE then you must be a "whinner" too huh?... Or is this a case of when YOU do it is not "whinning" but everyone else who has a different opinion than you is?...

So, let me get this straight... You don't want to have pre-mades against premades, and you want to keep premades against pugs left in the game?... That tells me you love to farm teams that are not evenly matched up and don't have the same advantages as your group.

Hypocresy is on your court buddy.

Now you are twisting everything around... My response was to cycao and/or others claiming that people who have any constructive criticism about WZs, trying to better the game for EVERYONE, should shut up or leave... That's clearly what you, cycao and others are saying...

The problem is that the people (primarily unclesam and tony) who are so dead set 100% against premades will never, ever budge on their opinions. What the majority of players agree on is that premades do have an edge in regular warzones. Now what a solid chunk of players also realize is how wide the ranges of skill are in this game which is why plenty of players have been fairly vocal on implementing a matchmaking system (which to no surprise anti-premade players are totally against for the most part).

Having constructive criticism is not voicing an opinion and failing to reach some sort of compromise to said opinion based on others feedback. Having constructive criticism is voicing your opinion having others comment on that opinion and whether good or bad, being able to react to that criticism in a positive way which is what unclesam and tony (the top two complainers on this subject) totally fail at.

Trust me there is nothing positive about what some people say about the types of players premades are as well as their mindset. When they say that premade players are afraid and scared to fight other premades and rely on uber gear, heals and what not...That. Is. Not Positive. Constructive. Criticism.

When players do this my responses are warranted. They offer nothing to the community outside of sending the same message in just about ever thread they post in. Now if you know me or at least have seen my posts I will bend, twist and reverse my original opinions if I think someone has come up with a better response. That's how you make something more positive, not myself posting my original thoughts more loudly.

Now you are twisting everything around... My response was to cycao and/or others claiming that people who have any constructive criticism about WZs, trying to better the game for EVERYONE, should shut up or leave... That's clearly what you, cycao and others are saying...

 

Not only that, but you are even belittling more our arguments by claiming "it is whinning"... If you have EVER given an opinion in this forum to better the game FOR EVERYONE then you must be a "whinner" too huh?... Or is this a case of when YOU do it is not "whinning" but everyone else who has a different opinion than you is?...

 

So, let me get this straight... You don't want to have pre-mades against premades, and you want to keep premades against pugs left in the game?... That tells me you love to farm teams that are not evenly matched up and don't have the same advantages as your group.

 

Hypocresy is on your court buddy.

I have advocated better matchmaking on a skill based level almost from page 1 of this thread. As someone that enjoys PvP for the competition, I find being matched against PUGs for the most part mind numbing, and being matched with them often frustrating. However, not all premades are high quality, and not all PUGs are low quality. Which means that player skill is the driving variable here; thus arranging PvP matches based on skill makes much more sense from a logical standpoint.

Yes, this thread is whining. It is filled with feelings, anecdotal evidence, and on some occasions flat out fabrications. I encourage you to dig through my post history to find where/when I have made posts of a similar quality. I doubt you find any. When I make arguments for/against something, I lay out facts and draw logical conclusions from them. Anecdotal evidence does not support an argument.

The overwhelming majority of anti-premade people in this thread are low skill, and do not want to put forth the time/effort/energy in improving that skill to a level that will be competitive. Personal responsibility for the quality of how one plays is the forefront of this issue. Instead of complaining about factors over which they have no control (who their opponents are), they should be focusing their energy on improving the factors they can control (their own skill level).

If every single pug looked past the fact that it wasn't just a premade but a better skilled team that handed them a loss and actually strives to learn what they themselves could have done better to help their team win a large chunk of these threads could not exist.

Assume a pool of players that all are equally skilled. Two groups are made out of this pool.

First group: Players and classes are hand-picked to cover all the needed roles. They have lots of experience working together as a team. They have voice comms.

Second group: Players and classes are chosen randomly. They never played together before. They use text chat for communication.

Are you seriously suggesting the second group could do just as well as the first when they face each other, if they only 'strive to do better'?!?

Your whole premise of "you only lose to premades because you are bad" is absolute nonsense. Premades have an undeniable objective advantage when facing a random group of players, regardless of how skilled those players are.

Assume a pool of players that all are equally skilled. Two groups are made out of this pool.

 

First group: Players and classes are hand-picked to cover all the needed roles. They have lots of experience working together as a team. They have voice comms.

 

Second group: Players and classes are chosen randomly. They never played together before. They use text chat for communication.

 

Are you seriously suggesting the second group could do just as well as the first when they face each other, if they only 'strive to do better'?!?

 

Your whole premise of "you only lose to premades because you are bad" is absolute nonsense. Premades have an undeniable objective advantage when facing a random group of players, regardless of how skilled those players are.

This exsactly what Ive been advocating for so long.

The premades has so many advantages over PUG so its even suprising that the Devs havent adressed this problem yet!!

The premades has probably less skills than a experianced PUG player since the premades are addicted to super powerhealers backing them up so they dont even have to Think about thier heath at all. They have in fact never learnedto do that,.

Assume a pool of players that all are equally skilled. Two groups are made out of this pool.

 

First group: Players and classes are hand-picked to cover all the needed roles. They have lots of experience working together as a team. They have voice comms.

 

Second group: Players and classes are chosen randomly. They never played together before. They use text chat for communication.

 

Are you seriously suggesting the second group could do just as well as the first when they face each other, if they only 'strive to do better'?!?

 

Your whole premise of "you only lose to premades because you are bad" is absolute nonsense. Premades have an undeniable objective advantage when facing a random group of players, regardless of how skilled those players are.

First off you're assuming the very best as well as the very worst. A hand picked group with past team work and comms verse random and ops chat (which is freaking fine when I'm a pug I get wet when they read or use it to not complain) who has never worked together. With the assumption that they're of equal skill we will consider them pretty good, now a random group of plucked pretty good players against a pretty good premade would probably be closer than you think how ever you don't want to think that. This pug would more than likely have played with the other players at one time or another and have a firm grasp of warzone mechanics as well as key targets on the premade.

Als with a post like this it helps but drive my point home. No one is denying that a premade has advantages but it is daft to say that a pug group cannot make it a competitive game. Instead they give up almost instantly or quit which puts your team instantly at a disadvantage. That and not every premade is equal, they can suck as much as a pug still rocking recruit gear in a warzone.

This mentality that there is no beating a premade is a major part of the problem. If you already think that there is no defeating one then it comes up to be a task no less than impossible which is a situation that you and other players create for themselves because that is how you perceive the problem as.

This exsactly what Ive been advocating for so long.

 

The premades has so many advantages over PUG so its even suprising that the Devs havent adressed this problem yet!!

 

The premades has probably less skills than a experianced PUG player since the premades are addicted to super powerhealers backing them up so they dont even have to Think about thier heath at all. They have in fact never learnedto do that,.

And then there's this guy. Who says all premades are addicted to super powerheals (?) (assuming ops?) that they don't think about their health at all and in fact has never learned how.

Oh and also that which when looking at the first sentence is that the average pug player is better than your average premade player. Which probably has some truth because I have seen some god awful premades filled with some terrible players and I have seen some exceptional pugs. Not all pugs are bad, not all premades are good.

Oh and also that which when looking at the first sentence is that the average pug player is better than your average premade player. Which probably has some truth because I have seen some god awful premades filled with some terrible players and I have seen some exceptional pugs. Not all pugs are bad, not all premades are good.

Hehe, nothing worse than seeing a 4 man-premade of players you just know wont be any help what so ever in the warzone, even if they are using voice software

I agree with above post, premades are not evil. Its an mmo, we are supposed to play the game with friends and not solo. Naturally going in 4 friends gives an advantage over 8 randoms, and thats how it should be. Some premades are powerfull, some are not. Voice software is nice, but really with only half the team using it, its not gamebreaking and for sure isnt a 100% guarenteed victory every time.

As it might be obvious from my post, im one of those guys who normally run these "evil premades" that ruin PvP, but I also solo que, and when I do I for sure dont go whining about being farmed by the other team in a 3-cap loss. Want to even the playing field. Find 3 friends, get on TS and see if it makes a difference for you.

The premades are still ruining the whole WZ experiance.

 

Theres not a single chance in hell a PUG team can beat a premade team with powerhealers, voice comm, and all the uber gear they got from prior PUG stomping.

 

The PUG stomping gotta stop. PPl are quitting the game by the day beacuase of this.

 

This game will be over Before christmas if the premades are not removed.

Beaten premades many times. It is an MMO it is meant to be played in group so just stop whining please. If u really think that this is fault of voice chat or compostion join guild If u don't want to do this it is your problem. Now let's start a thread PUGs are ruining WZ Experience. And only small % of ppl are focused on PvP most of this game population is PvE centered so stop with this "arguments" and "predictions" you got from your imagination cause they are false.

The TS advantage premades have does little affect to regular warzones, where communication and coordination are less important.

In regular warzones, the MOST important thing is personal skill. Which 95% of players lack who play this game. (A majority of people complaining on this thread)

I'm tired of people thinking they are great at their class, for doing 500k damage or heals in a full warzones. Let me tell you, that is terrible.

People really need to know their class and they will preform better. And I mean REALLY know your class. Where doing 1m in your role, heals or dps, is a VERY regular thing for full warzones. And don't give me the excuse, "my class won't allow me to do 1m in full warzones."

I play commando healer, and if the team isn't full of horrishows, I do that regularly.

Personal skill will win regular warzones. It's the single most contributing factor. People need to realize they aren't as good as they think

The other day i was solo queueing and ended up with 7 other solos against a full 8 of one guild that claim to be a very strong pvp guild (and generally are). It was huttball so we initially figured we were about to get rolled.

End score 1-1. They got the ball and won because they were able to coordinate their ccs better due to voice chat.

6 of the 7 i was grouped with were people i know as solo queuers that often end up in games with my usual 4.

We had no coordination but we knew how the game is played, and the double premade all on the same voicechat, that was that guild's ranked team.

Premade doesnt always mean better. And anyone that whines about premades probably shouldn't be pvping.

This is a mmo. A lot of the fun is playing with friends. A lot of the other fun is beating the zerg. This is the basis of pvp.

Victory is fun. Stomping a bunch of scrubs with a premade isn't victory. It happens as part of this game of premade vs premade. You will never see my group trash talking a pug group. We say gg or nothing to pugs. But we will trash talk other premades :-)

POT5 is one of the busier PVP servers and it's typical for each reg team to have at least one premade of whatever comp. and number. More of them are ball and chains than spear tips.

Including matches facing genuine steamroller premades (1-2 per week is my total avg playing both factions) there is only one consistent observation to make when our team gets crushed: Collectively we did not demonstrate basic levels of personal skill, awareness, communication, and teamwork. I don't mean at high levels adequate to face a bad *** premade, I mean period.

Some players don't have the aptitude, ability, or desire (yet hopefully) and they're hanging from the median bar or napping below it.

Perhaps it's a different current story on some other servers with PUG bodies paving premade footpaths, but making a case by repeating assumptions, dumb sounding stereotypes and generalities as if they're facts writ large simply sounds like ************ and boogeyman ********.

The premades will just make the lifelenght of this game shorter.

Theres a real nice MMO comming out soon, that doenst have this problem and if its not ixed by then...this game will die.

There no one that likes to be stomped by premades, and its a mystery that the devs still havent fixed the big issue. But I Think they have realized its too late now, since theres so few playing this game.

The premades will just make the lifelenght of this game shorter.

 

Theres a real nice MMO comming out soon, that doenst have this problem and if its not ixed by then...this game will die.

 

There no one that likes to be stomped by premades, and its a mystery that the devs still havent fixed the big issue. But I Think they have realized its too late now, since theres so few playing this game.

Thoughts on the solo only queue for ranked arenas?

It's not objective based but I mean you have always wanted premade vs premade and solo vs solo and that is what you're going to get.

Thoughts on the solo only queue for ranked arenas?

 

It's not objective based but I mean you have always wanted premade vs premade and solo vs solo and that is what you're going to get.

I cant wait for arenas simply because its removing objectives. Most warzones are lost not because a bad player cant press buttons, but its because they refuse to type anything. And it only takes one bad player to lose an entire warzone. Granted, the same can somewhat be applied to arenas, but at least both sides will be all solo or all premade so you don't have to worry about that one bad player in premade and in solo...well they still press buttons so they are at least being somewhat useful.

Don't get me wrong. I do enjoy warzones and I do enjoy the objectives but after 1.1.5 warzones just got worse and worse.

Hehe, nothing worse than seeing a 4 man-premade of players you just know wont be any help what so ever in the warzone, even if they are using voice software

this is pretty rare on my server. there's always elitism and ppl looking down on other guild tags. but the number of premades that actually make a team worse is very low. more often than not, if one team has a 4m and the other is pure pug, the team with the 4m will win (depending, as always, on the competency of their pugs). I can't speak for other servers, but that's the case for JC and basically the case for Pot5 where competition is better but a bunch of pugs still lose to premades the vast majority of the time (more often one team just has better premades, which reflects the balance of power between the factions tbh).

The amount of players qutting the game or WZ is still increasing alot.

The main reason is the unblanced pvp. Theres NO FUN atall in getting stomped by Premades with powerhealers.

This game is dying and will not survive the Winter this time, unless the devs smarten up and increase the FUN in pvp.

Theres a new MMO comming soon and they have real large scale pvp battles with over 100 players at same battlefield. Theres NO premades and seems to be alot of FUN!!

Bye bye SWTOR. You devs are a joke, compared to whats comming.

The amount of players qutting the game or WZ is still increasing alot.

 

The main reason is the unblanced pvp. Theres NO FUN atall in getting stomped by Premades with powerhealers.

 

This game is dying and will not survive the Winter this time, unless the devs smarten up and increase the FUN in pvp.

 

Theres a new MMO comming soon and they have real large scale pvp battles with over 100 players at same battlefield. Theres NO premades and seems to be alot of FUN!!

 

Bye bye SWTOR. You devs are a joke, compared to whats comming.

What's the name of the MMO?

What's the name of the MMO?

wildstar online. and hes right it does look more fun, i mean one of the classes is a gunslinger sage hybrid o.O

wildstar online. and hes right it does look more fun, i mean one of the classes is a gunslinger sage hybrid o.O

Yeah I've heard some really mixed reviews. Though just because no instanced PvP doesn't mean you wont be grouping or teaming up with other players. Grouping up and getting on the same page is as important to world PvP as it is in instanced PvP.