Also, bring ravage back why do npc's still use the ravage animation and it 's not a problem for them?

Because they are not fighting in PvP warzones/arenas and therefore cannot be exploited by enemy players. Like explained earlier in this thread, they did not change the animations on a whim but because of exploitable bugs in Endgame PvE and especially PvP.

Because they are not fighting in PvP warzones/arenas and therefore cannot be exploited by enemy players. Like explained earlier in this thread, they did not change the animations on a whim but because of exploitable bugs in Endgame PvE and especially PvP.

What bugs?

They changed Master Strike because most melees are really hindered by a 3s stationary channel in boss mechanics, avoiding AoE and PvP.

They changed Project to match the speed of Shock, which had no delay, whereas you could see the Project animation and use Resilience before it reached you and avoid it. That's it. There's no bugs, it was purely to speed it up.

I still feel that giving us the optional alternative abilities via Cartel is the best way forward.

Yes, there are always those who will angrily step into these threads and argue that the abilities were changed for good reasons, etc, important to their content... and they were.

Nobody is saying "I want to take away your instant project so that a sorcerer has an advantage over you in PVP, so that I have a cooler visual effect."

We're saying that we think enough of us liked the older, more iconic visual abilities for various classes for it to be worth Bioware giving them to us as an option - and we're willing to pay for it.

Consider it from another angle, rather than just the "but pugs might use the wrong skill" panic - those assets are already made and in game. We're offering to let Bioware monetise them. That could be money toward more endgame content for you.

What bugs?

 

They changed Master Strike because most melees are really hindered by a 3s stationary channel in boss mechanics, avoiding AoE and PvP.

They changed Project to match the speed of Shock, which had no delay, whereas you could see the Project animation and use Resilience before it reached you and avoid it. That's it. There's no bugs, it was purely to speed it up.

That's exactly it, that you were able to dodge the damage and effect which was supposed to be instant compared to the inquisitor's shock. How is this not a bug?

And you could exploit Master Strike/Ravage in PvP which made the one using it stuck in the animation while not doing any damage. It was like an uninterruptable self-inflicted 3 second stun, so a bug and the cause for a lot of anger in warzones.

It's different from the 3 second channel of the commandos and mercenaries for example. They added a utility point to make it useable while moving not because of a bug since you were still able to cancel it, but to allow for greater mobility while using abilities as a choice that you can make.

That's exactly it, that you were able to dodge the damage and effect which was supposed to be instant compared to the inquisitor's shock. How is this not a bug?

Again, if the Cartel Market contained:

"Ability: Force Bombard: 500 Cartel Coins: <Ability Description> : This ability shares a cooldown with Project, and is not available for use in Warzones"

How would that inconvenience anyone?

The dev time spent would be recouped by Cartel revenue, which would benefit all of us. Of course it's useless to some players, but very welcome to some, and worse than useless to none.

Indeed, to make it more cost effective still, I'd actually go further. Ever since the game began, there have been grumbles that dark siders ought to have project, as Vader iconically uses it ( of course, he was mostly Jedi trained, so nvm...), and its notable that Knights get to use similar telekinesis in cut scenes (

).

So, make it a pack, available to all Force classes, to provide a suitable ability replacement for all classes - Project for Consular, Shock for Inquisitor, something else (an interrupt probably) for Knight and Warrior. Same "not in warzone" caveat applies across the board, equivalent damage to the "standard" ability it's replacing, and shared cooldown.

"How did you finish off Thanaton, Darth Nox? Did you use your unparalleled knowledge of the Dark Side?"

"It was actually pretty simple. I hit him in the face with an old droid, then used my Legacy ability to kick him in the goolies."

No balance issues to eat dev time, art and animation assets already in game, most damage and cooldown stats already coded, and a popular request that would net money from a reasonable player base and fund the game, as well as giving more variety to the market beyond "Yet another reskinned shirt".

It manages to provide something that will materially affect a player's gameplay experience for the better, without being at all Pay To Win.

If it sold well, do another pack for tech classes with something similarly iconic but impractical removed from them.

Again, if the Cartel Market contained:

 

"Ability: Force Bombard: 500 Cartel Coins: <Ability Description> : This ability shares a cooldown with Project, and is not available for use in Warzones"

 

How would that inconvenience anyone?

I was just pointing out that it was indeed a critical bug, which was put into question in that post.

Your suggestion would not inconvenience anyone and I like the idea. I never said I am against adding cosmetic abilities with different animations or even that they put it on the CM for a price if it is automatically deactivated for the competitive scene. I am just wondering if that really would be a worthwhile endeavor and good time and resources spent by the devs. And whether it might lead to even more complaints that greedy EA now even starts to add combat abilites to the CM.

I was just pointing out that it was indeed a critical bug, which was put into question in that post.

 

Your suggestion would not inconvenience anyone and I like the idea. I never said I am against adding cosmetic abilities with different animations or even that they put it on the CM for a price if it is automatically deactivated for the competitive scene. I am just wondering if that really would be a worthwhile endeavor and good time and resources spent by the devs. And whether it might lead to even more complaints that greedy EA now even starts to add combat abilites to the CM.

I mean, I wouldn't even mind using it in Warzones, I literally don't care if it's slower, I'm here to have fun and there's other ways of interrupting a node cap for example than Project. Anyone who takes it super seriously, they could just keep using the newer one. If I went into ranked, yes I'd use the new one.

I agree it's tenuous adding abilitties to CM, for why you've said - at least it could be if they have a new name like that. It's why I think the toggle option is better because then it's sold clearly as a cosmetic adjustment to something that exists, and is not so much of a possible scapegoat. Cartel Market should be cosmetic/QoL to the core, but obviously, as suggested, would make a good route to deliver this kind of content down. I'd have no problem dropping some CC on it, and that way it would make only the people who really wanted it back have it, and maybe avoid masses going back to it.

That's exactly it, that you were able to dodge the damage and effect which was supposed to be instant compared to the inquisitor's shock. How is this not a bug?

I would say it's not a bug because there are lots of abilities you can either prepare for, nullify or avoid by early recognition, and it rewards skill and paying attention. Even at the most basic level, you can see a Sage casting Turbulence and interrupt or LoS or stun etc, a Sniper Ambush wacks a giant targeting icon on your body, giving you a cue and recognition and time, you can look at a Powertech's energy lode stacks and guess when to use your cooldown once they reach 4 stacks, and you can see a Scoundrel's Blood Boiler droid floating around you giving you lots of time to counter it.

PvP is partly built on recognition and counter-play, and it adds layers. I have no problem with someone carefully watching my ability animation and within 1.5 seconds making a counter to it. Yes, you couldn't do that to Inquisitors which was the problem. But the delay wasn't really the problem in my eyes, it was the notion of an unfair delay between factions

And whether it might lead to even more complaints that greedy EA now even starts to add combat abilites to the CM.

This is a point of note, sure, though in balance, I'll speculate that the age of the game is now such that nostalgia for "vanilla" is beginning to be a valid motivator. We're not, obviously, at the age for a parallel "SWTOR Classic" yet, to indulge the feeling of "putting right what balance changes sent wrong", but, in a smaller scale, features like this, and publicity for them, might actually bolster the game in some measure.

This is a point of note, sure, though in balance, I'll speculate that the age of the game is now such that nostalgia for "vanilla" is beginning to be a valid motivator. We're not, obviously, at the age for a parallel "SWTOR Classic" yet, to indulge the feeling of "putting right what balance changes sent wrong", but, in a smaller scale, features like this, and publicity for them, might actually bolster the game in some measure.

I like this idea, we're approaching a point as to be quite departed from the game at launch we started with, yet also still close enough to not warrant any kind of "Classic / Old School" iteration (nor is there the demand or the playerbase size for that). Objectively, things are better now - but as you say there's certainly room to channel a bit more of the game a lot of us fell in love with.

Why are you so entitled? They changed a thing. Deal with it. So many, many things have changed over the years. That's just how things go. "Oh but i liked this more" And? People have been whining about skill changes for years.

You think if it was easy they wouldn't do it?! You see everytime they change things they break them, right?

The code aint simple or all the bugs would be fixed. They don't fix em because they would break 10 other things.

Why are you so entitled? They changed a thing. Deal with it. So many, many things have changed over the years. That's just how things go. "Oh but i liked this more" And? People have been whining about skill changes for years.

 

You think if it was easy they wouldn't do it?! You see everytime they change things they break them, right?

 

The code aint simple or all the bugs would be fixed. They don't fix em because they would break 10 other things.

Hah. Thanks.

Yes lots of things changed, lots of them changed for the better, some not so much. This one made me (and at least enough others that some are in this thread) not play the Sage at all. That's quite large for us. Maybe try and understand that part of other people's enjoyment of this game comes more from some areas (combat feel, spectacle and visuals) than perhaps as it does for you.

I'm not here in their development department telling them about their code, and I'm not going to pretend to know about this game's coding details - I'm a consumer/customer/player unhappy with something about their product which I have every chance to make a case for, which is why they have forums and customer service.

By no stretch of the imagination is it "entitled" to express the wish that something were available, to note that if it were, we'd buy or use it, or to speculate upon the best way of doing so.

Once more, with clarity; nobody has asked for PvP to be removed from the game in order to facilitate the availability of more varied animations.

Assuming that the fear expressed in a recent post is genuine, then, honestly it seems to equate to: "No, don't you dare voice support for a new feature which is of no interest to me; it's selfish of you because Bioware might listen and risk breaking my preferred content", which is neither edifying nor accurate.

Any new content risks breaking existing elements, as you've noted. So, should we say "No new content at all"? If not, then we've every bit as much right and validity in expressing a constructive interest in the things that interest us, as you or anyone else does.

By no stretch of the imagination is it "entitled" to express the wish that something were available, to note that if it were, we'd buy or use it, or to speculate upon the best way of doing so.

 

Once more, with clarity; nobody has asked for PvP to be removed from the game in order to facilitate the availability of more varied animations.

 

Assuming that the fear expressed in a recent post is genuine, then, honestly it seems to equate to: "No, don't you dare voice support for a new feature which is of no interest to me; it's selfish of you because Bioware might listen and risk breaking my preferred content", which is neither edifying nor accurate.

 

Any new content risks breaking existing elements, as you've noted. So, should we say "No new content at all"? If not, then we've every bit as much right and validity in expressing a constructive interest in the things that interest us, as you or anyone else does.

Thank you for the support on this thread Rowan

I don't know what to do from here - just hope the devs visit the forums? How does something get made aware to them these days?

I liked the old look, pulling out robots parts and stuff from the ground was cooler than just always rocks

I also liked the powertechs flamethrower before, the new quick one is lame, same with powertech using death from above, I dont like that new one eitther.

I remember when they change dark ward from that purple stuff to that stupid animation with the relics or something, the newest one is the better one for that though.

I loved the old look, it was visually interesting at the very least.

The only thing that I miss more is the BH Mercenary triple heal Rapid Shots. The one shot Kolto Shot just looks super lackluster. They've changed that think so many times though.

I liked the old look, pulling out robots parts and stuff from the ground was cooler than just always rocks

 

I also liked the powertechs flamethrower before, the new quick one is lame, same with powertech using death from above, I dont like that new one eitther.

 

I remember when they change dark ward from that purple stuff to that stupid animation with the relics or something, the newest one is the better one for that though.

I loved the old look, it was visually interesting at the very least.

The only thing that I miss more is the BH Mercenary triple heal Rapid Shots. The one shot Kolto Shot just looks super lackluster. They've changed that think so many times though.

Thanks guys, these are great examples of other abilities they could do this for in other classes. I would definitely go back to the old Merc heal, that was so much cooler! Though the Powertech one coldn't work because the reason they changed it was to be able to move while channeling, they couldn't have done with the old DFA

Bumping...

I don't want to let this push die, I've waited years hoping... and now that this has got some traction and it seems a shame to waste it

I'm not sure on where best to proceed there; whether a new thread in suggestion box summarising suggested implementations and constructively answering concerns raised in this one would be the best move forward to get it noticed by the developer team, or to continue with it here?

This is a good idea to summarise, I'll get round to it when possible. I didn't put this in the suggestion box to begin with becuase of the low traffic and I'm guessing developer visits. They seem to mostly comment here

Either way, if they can get this done by the end of the year, I'll be a happy Barsen'thor