Where's the streetwise Sith Warrior, to fight the rising odds...

Isn't there are a Jedi Knight upon a fiery varactyl?

Late at night, I toss and I turn and I dream of the Force Sensitive men I need...

I need a hero! I'm holding out for a hero 'til the end of the game...

Yes, with that singsongy start I think it's clear what this thread is going to be about: the lack of male Force Sensitives to romance! It's something that I am genuinely curious about, why do we have only one male Force Sensitive character (Arcann) that can be romanced as a companion? Especially in comparison to all the female Force Sensitives that can be romanced. It's nice that we have at least one, of course, but he isn't even a Jedi or Sith but something else and it would be incredibly nice to have a male Sith Lord and Jedi Knight specifically to romance. Because I have a hard time to get my Sith characters, who are devoted followers of the Dark Side, to romance a redeemed Arcann, it just clashes immensely with the way I play them.

So what could be the reason behind the lack of male Force Users to romance, especially in comparison to the abundance of female Force Sensitives one can romance? I have my own theories but I am curious as to what the rest of the community thinks, but also, which existing male Force Sensitive companions would you like to see as romance option? Or perhaps even more intriguing, what kind of not-yet-existing type of character?

Where's the streetwise Sith Warrior, to fight the rising odds...

 

Isn't there are a Jedi Knight upon a fiery varactyl?

 

Late at night, I toss and I turn and I dream of the Force Sensitive men I need...

 

I need a hero! I'm holding out for a hero 'til the end of the game...

 

Yes, with that singsongy start I think it's clear what this thread is going to be about: the lack of male Force Sensitives to romance! It's something that I am genuinely curious about, why do we have only one male Force Sensitive character (Arcann) that can be romanced as a companion? Especially in comparison to all the female Force Sensitives that can be romanced. It's nice that we have at least one, of course, but he isn't even a Jedi or Sith but something else and it would be incredibly nice to have a male Sith Lord and Jedi Knight specifically to romance. Because I have a hard time to get my Sith characters, who are devoted followers of the Dark Side, to romance a redeemed Arcann, it just clashes immensely with the way I play them.

 

So what could be the reason behind the lack of male Force Users to romance, especially in comparison to the abundance of female Force Sensitives one can romance? I have my own theories but I am curious as to what the rest of the community thinks, but also, which existing male Force Sensitive companions would you like to see as romance option? Or perhaps even more intriguing, what kind of not-yet-existing type of character?

lol, I like it

Or perhaps even more intriguing, what kind of not-yet-existing type of character?

Do I need to say it?

A chiss.

Which existing male Force Sensitive companions would you like to see as romance option? Or perhaps even more intriguing, what kind of not-yet-existing type of character?

Don the exiled knight!

The reason behind the original force companions being female and a romance option, is because they wanted to give everybody the same thing. A female Jedi padawan. This also plays into the male fantasy of young virgin women that BioWare has used in the past(Liara, Tali, Merrill)

These are decisions that were likely made close to a decade ago, by people no longer employed by BioWare. So questioning why it was done that way, will fall on deaf ears because nobody there knows why. Just like they didn't write any scenes for a potential Vette/Risha reunion because the writers forgot that they share a past.

Going forward, I am expecting that Scourge returns as a romance option, and Kira will be like Nadia and Jaesa before and be flipped to be romanced by both genders. Now whether or not these are options for everybody or only the Jedi, is the question. I'm really hoping that Scourge is at least Jedi Knight and Sith Warrior because we need to have a conversation between the two Wraths.

As for the Ossus story up to 6.0, it would be nice to see some new male force users, but I'm not going to speculate on something so many months away that we know next to nothing about. I'd like to see the Twi'lek major get more content though.

As a lesbian I need to chime in and say "Icky, men! Blegh!"

On a more serious note... yeah it's weird right? I mean I never romance the men but that is very strange come to think of it. It seems like too big a deal to be a simple oversight.

Do I need to say it?

 

A chiss.

I wouldn't mind that Chiss, I admit! Although we'd need to know more about them, because is he more of a Force User or does he identify himself as a Jedi? Or perhaps even Sith (unlikely but hey, anything is possible)? If I am correct we don't learn where Valss learned to use the Force, whether it was from a Jedi or Sith, a Light Sider or Dark Sider.

As a lesbian I need to chime in and say "Icky, men! Blegh!"

 

On a more serious note... yeah it's weird right? I mean I never romance the men but that is very strange come to think of it. It seems like too big a deal to be a simple oversight.

I think it's because the game originally had the stereotype "straight gamerguy" in mind as their target audience, only then, surprise, surprise, their playerbase appeared to be far more diverse

I think it's because the game originally had the stereotype "straight gamerguy" in mind as their target audience, only then, surprise, surprise, their playerbase appeared to be far more diverse

Yeah, I love the main storylines for all the classes, but everything is so damned heteronormative.. and that is *not* a word I would normally employ. It's not just your companions, it's all the side characters you can flirt with on the way up, like Jaxo (I like her so much), or the enormous number of women the Smuggler male can flirt and sleep with.

As the Smuggler female (my current project), all the dudes you can flirt with come on way too strong, as if the dialogue expects it, and is surprised by the fact you turn them down. The dude on Alderaan was the worst. He was coming onto me so hard, that IRL I would have been kind of freaked out. He gets me alone, comes on super hard, acts like a super creep.. even if I was straight, am I supposed to like that? The second time he came onto me, I actually asked Corso to stay with me, which is exactly what I would do IRL (I'm not romancing him, instead I'm treating him like he's my best friend, I love that guy). What a creeper! Meanwhile on the male playthroughs all the women you can flirt with are super submissive and commonly kind of ditzy. I mean hell, Skavak has left a trail of stupid women behind him that are apparently so in awe of his ugly, tattoo'd mug that they are willing to kill for him. Clearly written by men.

Then as you mentioned, the lack of force sensitive men you can romance. I don't think this is any accident. In fact, I don't think it's an accident that so many romanceable women are force sensitive. Is there *any* force sensitive female companion you *can't* romance? After all, what better stereotypical male fantasy is there than to conquer the chick with the super powers? Hell DS Jaesa is like "Oh Master! I'm gonna be your baby machine and we're gonna conquer the galaxy" wdf...

Clearly a force sensitive man, Jedi or Sith, is far too strong and powerful to be with such an alpha personality as the player character, it would be emasculating, which is why we don't see it. Why should some dude with super powers wanna take orders from a lady?

Yeah, I love the main storylines for all the classes, but everything is so damned heteronormative.. and that is *not* a word I would normally employ. It's not just your companions, it's all the side characters you can flirt with on the way up, like Jaxo (I like her so much), or the enormous number of women the Smuggler male can flirt and sleep with.

 

As the Smuggler female (my current project), all the dudes you can flirt with come on way too strong, as if the dialogue expects it, and is surprised by the fact you turn them down. The dude on Alderaan was the worst. He was coming onto me so hard, that IRL I would have been kind of freaked out. He gets me alone, comes on super hard, acts like a super creep.. even if I was straight, am I supposed to like that? The second time he came onto me, I actually asked Corso to stay with me, which is exactly what I would do IRL (I'm not romancing him, instead I'm treating him like he's my best friend, I love that guy). What a creeper! Meanwhile on the male playthroughs all the women you can flirt with are super submissive and commonly kind of ditzy. I mean hell, Skavak has left a trail of stupid women behind him that are apparently so in awe of his ugly, tattoo'd mug that they are willing to kill for him. Clearly written by men.

 

Then as you mentioned, the lack of force sensitive men you can romance. I don't think this is any accident. In fact, I don't think it's an accident that so many romanceable women are force sensitive. Is there *any* force sensitive female companion you *can't* romance? After all, what better stereotypical male fantasy is there than to conquer the chick with the super powers? Hell DS Jaesa is like "Oh Master! I'm gonna be your baby machine and we're gonna conquer the galaxy" wdf...

 

Clearly a force sensitive man, Jedi or Sith, is far too strong and powerful to be with such an alpha personality as the player character, it would be emasculating, which is why we don't see it. Why should some dude with super powers wanna take orders from a lady?

In the case of the smuggler, I'd say that's because the writer (female if I recall correctly, but not 100%) said the smuggler was written to be played as a male smuggler. It was only after the fact that they went, "Oh yeah, female side." which is why the female aspects of the smuggler all feel off.

Not sure I agree on the conquer the woman with super powers aspect, because the sith warrior is already considered one of the top force users ever. So right there, you go "Yeah. Conquered her like anyone else."

I'd say that's just more in the line of giving a "One day we'll have kids" type of feel to the RP than anything else.

On my Consular, she gets Qyzen and Holiday mentioning her future with kids, not sure if male Consulars get that aspect at all.

In regards to the Smuggler, I actually really enjoyed Darmas. In fact, I ship my Smuggler with him even through the end. Too bad they saddle us with Corso. But that's just me and my personal preferences. As a hetero female, I found Darmas' suave confidence intriguing (and my Smuggler was all giggity over it). Corso, on the other hand, was tiring. Very tiring. Like every time we so much as talked to another male he would get all bent out of shape tiring. So that became my thing for that playthrough. Trot Corso out just to torture him every chance I got.

And I actually really enjoyed the female Smuggler's personality and reactions to the world around her. The big problem here is that a single story can never please everybody. Because we all have different tastes and like different things. It's made even more difficult for a MMO, where a single-player game might be able to tailor romantic escapades to the person, or at least try to.

That being said, I will forever be salty that we have no male force users to romance, short of Arcann, which I don't even count because he can be so very dead for a lot of people. I do ship Scourge with my female Knight in my head, and for me, it's pretty obvious there's something there in-between the lines, but it would be nice to actually have a romance for a male force user written into the game.

Yeah, I love the main storylines for all the classes, but everything is so damned heteronormative.. and that is *not* a word I would normally employ. It's not just your companions, it's all the side characters you can flirt with on the way up, like Jaxo (I like her so much), or the enormous number of women the Smuggler male can flirt and sleep with.

Don't forget the fact that the male Agent and the male Smuggler get TWO choices for romanceable class story companions, while all the ladies only get one. Also that the male Trooper gets to have a fade-to-black with Jaxo, while the female Trooper can have like two flirts with Jonas Balkar but that's it. AND that female Jedi Knights get Dark Side points for sleeping with Doc, but male Jedi Knights don't get Dark Side points (as far as I've been told) for sleeping with Kira, their Padawan practically the day before. Male and female toons were dealt unequal hands in the fictional romance department for a long time in this game.

Then as you mentioned, the lack of force sensitive men you can romance. I don't think this is any accident. In fact, I don't think it's an accident that so many romanceable women are force sensitive. Is there *any* force sensitive female companion you *can't* romance? After all, what better stereotypical male fantasy is there than to conquer the chick with the super powers? Hell DS Jaesa is like "Oh Master! I'm gonna be your baby machine and we're gonna conquer the galaxy" wdf...

 

Clearly a force sensitive man, Jedi or Sith, is far too strong and powerful to be with such an alpha personality as the player character, it would be emasculating, which is why we don't see it. Why should some dude with super powers wanna take orders from a lady?

I don't know if the (conscious or unconscious) fantasy was actually "conquering the chick with the superpowers". It always felt more like a teacher/student fantasy fetish to me, truth be told. There's probably also some of the 'young virginal woman' ideal that you mentioned before mixed in there too, as well as the unfortunate (usually unconscious but not always) bias a lot of writers have against giving female characters positions of authority over male characters.

The power dynamics of sleeping with someone who was very recently your student is super problematic either way. It's like if a high school teacher started dating their 18 year old former student the week after they graduated. Sure, it would be legal, but people would still find it super skeevy. Seeing it on the Sith side doesn't bother me because they're all about messed up power dynamics and dysfunctional family/intimate relationships, but seeing it on the Jedi side makes me internally cringe.

Don't forget the fact that the male Agent and the male Smuggler get TWO choices for romanceable class story companions, while all the ladies only get one. Also that the male Trooper gets to have a fade-to-black with Jaxo, while the female Trooper can have like two flirts with Jonas Balkar but that's it. AND that female Jedi Knights get Dark Side points for sleeping with Doc, but male Jedi Knights don't get Dark Side points (as far as I've been told) for sleeping with Kira, their Padawan practically the day before. Male and female toons were dealt unequal hands in the fictional romance department for a long time in this game.

Padawan in name only. You're the same age. She's made your padawan only because they team you with her but haven't made her a knight yet. This is not a typical Master and Padawan relationship. Never was and never meant to be.

Now, not sure why one would get dark side and one wouldn't (Knight wasn't my favorite story), but I don't recall dark side for sleeping with Doc, but it has been a long time, and context may have something to do with it.

Just like killing people has context going along with it.

I don't know if the (conscious or unconscious) fantasy was actually "conquering the chick with the superpowers". It always felt more like a teacher/student fantasy fetish to me, truth be told. There's probably also some of the 'young virginal woman' ideal that you mentioned before mixed in there too, as well as the unfortunate (usually unconscious but not always) bias a lot of writers have against giving female characters positions of authority over male characters.

 

The power dynamics of sleeping with someone who was very recently your student is super problematic either way. It's like if a high school teacher started dating their 18 year old former student the week after they graduated. Sure, it would be legal, but people would still find it super skeevy. Seeing it on the Sith side doesn't bother me because they're all about messed up power dynamics and dysfunctional family/intimate relationships, but seeing it on the Jedi side makes me internally cringe.

Knight and Kira isn't skeevy, because the Knight wasn't that much of a teacher and the same age. They were also Padawans together. Knight just got promoted first.

Now, the Consular and Nadia has more a teacher and student vibe, though Nadia is either just a bit older or same as the Consular.

Padawan in name only. You're the same age. She's made your padawan only because they team you with her but haven't made her a knight yet. This is not a typical Master and Padawan relationship. Never was and never meant to be.

 

Now, not sure why one would get dark side and one wouldn't (Knight wasn't my favorite story), but I don't recall dark side for sleeping with Doc, but it has been a long time, and context may have something to do with it.

 

Just like killing people has context going along with it.

 

Knight and Kira isn't skeevy, because the Knight wasn't that much of a teacher and the same age. They were also Padawans together. Knight just got promoted first.

 

Now, the Consular and Nadia has more a teacher and student vibe, though Nadia is either just a bit older or same as the Consular.

There is definitely DS points involved in romancing Doc any time you chose to sleep with him you get a DS hit. Cant remember if you also get one agreeing to marry him but i am pretty sure that was there too. Female JK was never intended to romance without it being dark

Now, not sure why one would get dark side and one wouldn't (Knight wasn't my favorite story), but I don't recall dark side for sleeping with Doc, but it has been a long time, and context may have something to do with it.

There is definitely DS points involved in romancing Doc any time you chose to sleep with him you get a DS hit. Cant remember if you also get one agreeing to marry him but i am pretty sure that was there too. Female JK was never intended to romance without it being dark

Female Knights get Dark Side points for sleeping with Doc, accepting his wedding proposal, and saying you want to have kids with him.

Doc Romance Compilation:

Male Knights on the other hand? No alignment hit for anything you do with Kira.

Kira Romance Compilation: https://youtu.be/3frq54xh4mA

There's your 'context'. I think that's a pretty telling choice for the writers responsible for the Knight story to make, don't you?

Yeah, I love the main storylines for all the classes, but everything is so damned heteronormative.. and that is *not* a word I would normally employ. It's not just your companions, it's all the side characters you can flirt with on the way up, like Jaxo (I like her so much), or the enormous number of women the Smuggler male can flirt and sleep with.

 

As the Smuggler female (my current project), all the dudes you can flirt with come on way too strong, as if the dialogue expects it, and is surprised by the fact you turn them down. The dude on Alderaan was the worst. He was coming onto me so hard, that IRL I would have been kind of freaked out. He gets me alone, comes on super hard, acts like a super creep.. even if I was straight, am I supposed to like that? The second time he came onto me, I actually asked Corso to stay with me, which is exactly what I would do IRL (I'm not romancing him, instead I'm treating him like he's my best friend, I love that guy). What a creeper! Meanwhile on the male playthroughs all the women you can flirt with are super submissive and commonly kind of ditzy. I mean hell, Skavak has left a trail of stupid women behind him that are apparently so in awe of his ugly, tattoo'd mug that they are willing to kill for him. Clearly written by men.

 

Then as you mentioned, the lack of force sensitive men you can romance. I don't think this is any accident. In fact, I don't think it's an accident that so many romanceable women are force sensitive. Is there *any* force sensitive female companion you *can't* romance? After all, what better stereotypical male fantasy is there than to conquer the chick with the super powers? Hell DS Jaesa is like "Oh Master! I'm gonna be your baby machine and we're gonna conquer the galaxy" wdf...

 

Clearly a force sensitive man, Jedi or Sith, is far too strong and powerful to be with such an alpha personality as the player character, it would be emasculating, which is why we don't see it. Why should some dude with super powers wanna take orders from a lady?

Reading your post was such a treat, because you're hitting the nail on the head so damn hard. It's exactly like you say and indeed it isn't just for the Smuggler, albeit it becomes most evident during that story. In the base game all the female Force Sensitive companions can be romanced by male characters. Afterwards you get only a few female Force Sensitives that aren't a romance option, like Master Ranos, Darth Hexid, Veeora Denz (or however you spell her name) and Senya. Vaylin wasn't a companion, but I am sure that if she had been a villain in the base game there would have been a romance option for her.

It's why I loved playing a male Smuggler who I headcanoned to be gay and fell for Theron Shan. It's like ruining expectations and indeed, there almost seems to be some surprise from the game's dialogue if you choose not to woo the female characters in the Smuggler storyline. The funny thing I remember is that when I was going through Shadow of Revan on my male Smuggler and there was this kissing scene at the end of Rishi, the game started suddenly lagging a lot and I was like "having expectations ruined is painful eh?" while cackling loudly.

And I agree, I want to see more women in authority in this fictional universe. I want to see a male Force User follow a female Force User and accept her as the stronger or higher authority. It's why it's so incredibly satisfying to play a female Sith Inquisitor or female Sith Warrior, both besting men and claiming their positions of power. On top of that we even got Acina as Empress of the Sith, so I believe it's also high time for a male Force User to follow the authority of a female Force User in a romance narrative (albeit I am going to immediately come clean I also want more male Force Users to romance for my male Sith Inquisitor, I'm asking this for him as a friend you see).

It's why I loved playing a male Smuggler who I headcanoned to be gay and fell for Theron Shan. It's like ruining expectations and indeed, there almost seems to be some surprise from the game's dialogue if you choose not to woo the female characters in the Smuggler storyline. The funny thing I remember is that when I was going through Shadow of Revan on my male Smuggler and there was this kissing scene at the end of Rishi, the game started suddenly lagging a lot and I was like "having expectations ruined is painful eh?" while cackling loudly.

Haha, turning beryl down on Taris was quite funny.

She was at the end really trying to get him and he was all like "we're just friends, ok ?" and she was all like "of course, what did you imagine ?"

He did not imagine anything, her on the other hand, she was clearly disappointed

And I agree, I want to see more women in authority in this fictional universe. I want to see a male Force User follow a female Force User and accept her as the stronger or higher authority. It's why it's so incredibly satisfying to play a female Sith Inquisitor or female Sith Warrior, both besting men and claiming their positions of power. On top of that we even got Acina as Empress of the Sith, so I believe it's also high time for a male Force User to follow the authority of a female Force User in a romance narrative (albeit I am going to immediately come clean I also want more male Force Users to romance for my male Sith Inquisitor, I'm asking this for him as a friend you see).

Funny thing is that if you play a female Commander, all actual leaders of all factions are female during KOTET (Acina, Vaylin, Saresh as she's the one pulling the strings and you).

Both my female JK and SW are already in a relationship (with Theron and Arcann respectively), but i'd really like a nice male FU to romance on my SI though, he's been waiting forever now, and as Cytharat is highly unlikely to return...

Both my female JK and SW are already in a relationship (with Theron and Arcann respectively), but i'd really like a nice male FU to romance on my SI though, he's been waiting forever now, and as Cytharat is highly unlikely to return...

Oh Cytharat... it still saddens me that the first openly gay character in the story was promptly killed off in RotHC, it was so unfair. Why couldn't he have been like Lana Beniko, because in all honesty there was no good reason for him to die. It was such an unnecessary death that it makes me feel that he had to die because he was an openly gay character. Bioware can correct me if I am wrong there, but Cytharat's kill-off option does come across like that.

Oh Cytharat... it still saddens me that the first openly gay character in the story was promptly killed off in RotHC, it was so unfair. Why couldn't he have been like Lana Beniko, because in all honesty there was no good reason for him to die. It was such an unnecessary death that it makes me feel that he had to die because he was an openly gay character. Bioware can correct me if I am wrong there, but Cytharat's kill-off option does come across like that.

That or they didn't anticipate that people would like the character.

That or they didn't anticipate that people would like the character.

Maybe that's why they are cautiously bringing in flirt options nowadays with new characters like in Jedi Under Siege, to test the waters who'd people want as potential romance options and who they can safely give a kill-off option.

Maybe that's why they are cautiously bringing in flirt options nowadays with new characters like in Jedi Under Siege, to test the waters who'd people want as potential romance options and who they can safely give a kill-off option.

If it's true the next romance is going to be a droid, I wouldn't know what to guess on where they get their information from.

If it's true the next romance is going to be a droid, I wouldn't know what to guess on where they get their information from.

Well... we got Khem Val, didn't we? Surely a droid shouldn't be too weird by now, no? I'd prefer if we got another male Force User first though, maybe a Sith or at least one aligned with the Dark Side, to counter a redeemed Arcann romance?

So what could be the reason behind the lack of male Force Users to romance, especially in comparison to the abundance of female Force Sensitives one can romance?

In the title you seek for "good force sensitive men", here you just ask for "male force users". So, what shall it be?

These are two different topics. I assume that any good force sensitive man will follow the ways of the Jedi and there is no romance in the Jedi lifestyle. Any Jedi who romances you is not following the ways of the Jedi as intended. Kira (not a man, but somewhat manly in her behaviour) is an example. Thinking about romancing her makes me cringe. All romances in this game with Jedi (and not only those) are cringeworthy to me.

As for non-Jedi male forcer users in general, I don't know. Those romances were written maybe 10 years ago. Different times. I doubt that they calculated with a lot of female (and male) players being interested in that. They obviously thought that the players want to romance and marry some underaged girls like Mako. Luckily, this mindset has changed during the last decade.

To be honest, I admit that I find all romances in this game terrible. I tried it with some of my chars, just to see what happens, but most of my chars remain without a romance. Maybe I'm the only one who finds the romances immersion-breaking, but if my evil, insane body type 3 pure Sithplood female Warrior with Dark V corruption gently kisses Quinn who just tried to kill her, then that is not the least bit romantic. It's just stupid. And all romances end in old-fashioned marriages. I don't like that. (But it's also not important enough to me to write a forum post about it. Wait... )

To each his own. I could live without any romances in this game. With one exception: Tora needs to be romanceable! Romanceable, but no marriage. A raw, lively and wild romance. Throwing chairs at each other (emote soon on the cartel market) and things like that. <3

Well... we got Khem Val, didn't we? Surely a droid shouldn't be too weird by now, no? I'd prefer if we got another male Force User first though, maybe a Sith or at least one aligned with the Dark Side, to counter a redeemed Arcann romance?

How about no romances so we can focus on the plot?

In the title you seek for "good force sensitive men", here you just ask for "male force users". So, what shall it be?

Uh... you do recognise the title is meant as a joke? That it's taken from the song "Holding Out for a Hero"? And that I changed the first bit of the song to suit the theme of the thread? I mean, surely you have heard of this song:

I am not literally talking about good Force Sensitive men, I thought the joke was obvious?

How about no romances so we can focus on the plot?

N-no romances? N-n-no smoochie smoochies? D: