I really...REALLY...hope that was sarcasm. Otherwise, it's the worst idea I've heard in a while...and there are some real doozies on this forum.

I agree - it wouldnt work - but I know where he is coming from - they made this game as a PvE and then bolted PvP onto it aferwards - this has never worked and the most unpopular nefs in SWTOR history have come from pvpers saying that class 'A' is OP - the nerf that comes then makes the class fair in pvp but next to uselss in PvE. They need to come up with a well thought out fix for this - or they will end up with neither PvP or PvE working correctly.

Personally I am in the mindset of completely removing pvp from the game until they have a fix for it - in the mean time work on getting the PvE classes right again and then taking it from there. Or vice versa - I just want one of the two to work as intended. I know that this will be a very unpopular idea but as a PvE fan (and an ex PvPer) I believe that something this drastic might be the only they can fix this.

I agree - it wouldnt work - but I know where he is coming from - they made this game as a PvE and then bolted PvP onto it aferwards - this has never worked and the most unpopular nefs in SWTOR history have come from pvpers saying that class 'A' is OP - the nerf that comes then makes the class fair in pvp but next to uselss in PvE. They need to come up with a well thought out fix for this - or they will end up with neither PvP or PvE working correctly.

 

Personally I am in the mindset of completely removing pvp from the game until they have a fix for it - in the mean time work on getting the PvE classes right again and then taking it from there. Or vice versa - I just want one of the two to work as intended. I know that this will be a very unpopular idea but as a PvE fan (and an ex PvPer) I believe that something this drastic might be the only they can fix this.

I disagree. BioWare has always had a dedicated team for PvP. That's not what developers do if they're just going to "tack on" PvP. The proof is in how well-done WZ's are, and the fact that a much larger percentage of the population partake in PvP here than in any other MMO.

Don't let the failure of Ilum overshadow that fact.

Here's BWs QA process for class balance:

Marauders/Sentinals are happy? Let's buff them again

Scoundrels/Operatives are unhappy? Let's nerf them again

Mercs/commandos unhappy? Let's adjust them

Powertechs/Vanguards unhappy? Let's sugarcoat their nerf to try and make it look like a buff, simmilar to what we did with Operative Backstab and Scoundrels Back Blast

Sorcs/Sages unhappy? Let's buff their dps and leave their healing alone

Etc

Here's BWs QA process for class balance:

 

Marauders/Sentinals are happy? Let's buff them again

Scoundrels/Operatives are unhappy? Let's nerf them again

Mercs/commandos unhappy? Let's adjust them

Powertechs/Vanguards unhappy? Let's sugarcoat their nerf to try and make it look like a buff, simmilar to what we did with Operative Backstab and Scoundrels Back Blast

Sorcs/Sages unhappy? Let's buff their dps and leave their healing alone

 

Etc

i think this is the best post i ever seen! i completely agree.

i think this is the best post i ever seen! i completely agree.

Well, if it makes you happy to agree to fantasy, then whatever floats your boat.

I disagree. BioWare has always had a dedicated team for PvP. That's not what developers do if they're just going to "tack on" PvP. The proof is in how well-done WZ's are, and the fact that a much larger percentage of the population partake in PvP here than in any other MMO.

 

Don't let the failure of Ilum overshadow that fact.

The warzones are not well done, they are still buggy as hell and easily exploited. PvP use to be popular, but now it's fading faster then the game.

Well, if it makes you happy to agree to fantasy, then whatever floats your boat.

Editing because I don't want to come across as rude and a d-bag.

I disagree. BioWare has always had a dedicated team for PvP. That's not what developers do if they're just going to "tack on" PvP. The proof is in how well-done WZ's are, and the fact that a much larger percentage of the population partake in PvP here than in any other MMO.

 

Don't let the failure of Ilum overshadow that fact.

WZ's are not well done. They have been seriously flawed from th start in so many ways - buts thats besides the point. The fact is the 2 game types do not work properly when using the same class setups. Plus you fix a class for PvP and you mess it up for PvE - and vice versa - there is no escaping this fact and this is what needs to be fixed. Its a serious issue and people like yourself are not helping matters by saying all is well with the system. No offense intended.

WZ's are not well done. They have been seriously flawed from th start in so many ways - buts thats besides the point. The fact is the 2 game types do not work properly when using the same class setups. Plus you fix a class for PvP and you mess it up for PvE - and vice versa - there is no escaping this fact and this is what needs to be fixed. Its a serious issue and people like yourself are not helping matters by saying all is well with the system. No offense intended.

Well, we'll see how successful TESO is, then, because all skills and gear are the same for PvE and PvP, as it should be.

Hello Murcans,

 

Why do you want them to give you a deception and madness more surviving and damage can you tell me thank you

Simple dou you know why people select tankassasin to pvp because deception tree is assassin has the worst dps all other damage class and if you don't have pocket healer in your group you will die easily or you have to be stealth and heal and stealth and heal yourself without killing anyone in war zones I suggest you go target dummies and test deception dps and compare other dps classes any good ranged class will kill you in 2 or 3 shots in warzones

Thank you SOOO much for the tank love!!!!

What tank love? they just bloody made us more squishy in terms of healing generated. 50%? 115% from 150% you gotta be kidding me. they just made my shadow tank the weakest class in the game. we went from tanking 3 ppl to 1/ you think slow time changes is going to be much since now we are going to be hammered. there goes my sub.

Well, we'll see how successful TESO is, then, because all skills and gear are the same for PvE and PvP, as it should be.

I am not saying the system cant work - I am saying that it doesn't work in SWTOIR atm.

Btw - I am so looking forward to Tes Online.

I disagree. BioWare has always had a dedicated team for PvP. That's not what developers do if they're just going to "tack on" PvP. The proof is in how well-done WZ's are, and the fact that a much larger percentage of the population partake in PvP here than in any other MMO.

 

Don't let the failure of Ilum overshadow that fact.

Made me laugh.

On a further note, I hope there is more to come. Several classes need buffs and/or nerfs for PvP but their focus with these changes is PvE.

> "Fixed" Gunslinger and Sniper capstone abilities.

> Meanwhile Sage and Sorcerer capstone abilities still suck.

Bioware,

Do you have any designers dedicated to the healing experience in this game? It really seems hard to believe that you do.

You shipped MAJOR bugs in the healing abilities: the double-tick on the sage AoE, the missing initial burst on the Sorc, the insane force regeneration abilities. An ability (benevolence) that had no utility whatsoever. Did anyone actually play a healer on your QA team? How could they possibly have missed these things?

In the first path, you "fixed" one of these issues by removing the initial burst on the Sage AoE, even though the tooltip clearly indicated it should be there and the animation is designed for one as well, while not fixing the double tick issue. A completely ad-hoc, shot-gun "solution".

The next patch, you fix the double tick and then completely change the Sage healing rotation because the force mechanics were so out of whack so that everything we learned about how to play the class had to be relearned. As it turns out, you simultaneously grossly oversimplified the sage healing experience while making it harder to heal your instances if DPS make mistakes (and then, inevitably, blame the healer).

Now, 1.3 and you have a thorough description of Tank and DPS balance, with nothing on heals.

This isn't QQ about your nerfs. This is a serious question about whether you have designers dedicated to the healing experience. It seems hard to believe that you do, given the above and some obvious usability issues (impossibly small debuff icons for cleansing, companions not appearing in ops frames, etc).

My initial 6 month subscription runs out in 3 weeks. I doubt I'll renew. Healing in this game simply isn't fun and you've given me little reason to believe that will change any time soon.

What tank love? they just bloody made us more squishy in terms of healing generated. 50%? 115% from 150% you gotta be kidding me. they just made my shadow tank the weakest class in the game. we went from tanking 3 ppl to 1/ you think slow time changes is going to be much since now we are going to be hammered. there goes my sub.

well they actually said that now shadows are going to be as strong as heavy armor tanks they aren't going to be the weakest class they are just going to be as good tanking as a guardian/juggernaut or vanguard/powertech

well they actually said that now shadows are going to be as strong as heavy armor tanks they aren't going to be the weakest class they are just going to be as good tanking as a guardian/juggernaut or vanguard/powertech

How does that even make sense? They ALREADY have the weakest tanking ability in the game - their damage reduction is basically 10% less as it is than every other tank. Now it's going to be closer in line with a well geared Sentinel than a tank. On top of this, with the threat generation increase their PvE viability is basically completely gone.

In any case, how on earth is this supposed to make them better tanks????

well they actually said that now shadows are going to be as strong as heavy armor tanks they aren't going to be the weakest class they are just going to be as good tanking as a guardian/juggernaut or vanguard/powertech

What in the hell are you talking about? Reread the post. They massively nerfed Shadows. Massively. To the point where they are no longer viable as main tanks in PvE. They received both a huge healing nerf and a huge armor nerf. They were not improved in any way, and they absolutely are the weakest tank class now.

There is no logical reason any group would want a Shadow tank now, and I'm probably going to unsub because of it. I have no interest in rerolling or respeccing to DPS.

It 'almost' looks like a pattern of over-nerfing. (and maybe over-buffing) People seemed to agree that BHs/Troopers needed a nerf awhile back - but my merc feels stunningly weaker now. When I started, my sentinel felt weak, and I think they very much needed a buff to dps. But now they just seem to have crazy survivability in pvp. I can see either weakening assassins' armour OR self-healing, but both seems extreme, & people are going to be disappointed in their class.

What's wrong with baby steps, rather than this weird, hack & slash approach? They say, 'small changes,' and then you find your Death from Above is virtually a single target spell. A 50% cut is *not* small.

The game seems to me to be in a very fragile place right now with its player base. I'm not sure I'd feel great about having big nerfs, for the game's sake.

Actually they do get something new, They get an increase in Threat generation and thier AOE does not break CC any more. Same update the other 2 get. I mean I have seen Sin tanks with 30k HP and have same gear setup as I do and I only have 22k. I hope the math is right and that reducing the armor from 150 to 115 is correct, im sure they didnt just pick a number. lol but who knows.

What in the hell are you talking about? Reread the post. They massively nerfed Shadows. Massively. To the point where they are no longer viable as main tanks in PvE. They received both a huge healing nerf and a huge armor nerf. They were not improved in any way, and they absolutely are the weakest tank class now.

 

There is no logical reason any group would want a Shadow tank now, and I'm probably going to unsub because of it. I have no interest in rerolling or respeccing to DPS.

The Shadow/Assassin tank survivability changes went too far for high-end PvE tanking with the armor multiplier downgrade.

 

Shadows were already pretty much considered the worst choice for end-game PvE tanking because they are the easiest to get gibbed. They had the least armor, the little self heals don't mean much when you're taking big boss damage, and their shield mechanic isn't as reliable.

 

PvE guilds were already prioritizing the other two tank AC's. After this, most of the high-end guilds will disqualify them altogether from main-tank roles.

As a raid leader AND a tanking shadow, I completely agree. No shadow will EVER tank my raids again, even in an off tanks role. I have 37% damage reduction in black hole gear after this change, a smuggler could tank better then me. I'm just glad I'm the only shadow tank on our team so I don't have to boot anyone but myself.

For anyone who has a copy of a shadow on test PLEASE log in and tank spec and play it so they get numbers. It's SO broken I can't see it go live if they see that shadows die to hard mode flash point bosses in black hole gear (which they do now).

well they actually said that now shadows are going to be as strong as heavy armor tanks they aren't going to be the weakest class they are just going to be as good tanking as a guardian/juggernaut or vanguard/powertech

These numbers assume all "self buffs" and similar gear (mostly black hole, some rakata, modded ideally) and are based on characters live on test right now.

Shadow:

Damage reduction: 37%

Shield: 54%

Absorb: 43%

Defense: 21% (ONLY works on white damage. Boss special attacks have accuracy and hit 100% of the time)

Vanguard:

Damage reduction: 48%

Shield: 65%

Absorb: 80%

Defense: 13%

Bang up job. You can CLEARLY see the shadow is just as good as the heavy armor tank.

Dear BioWare,

Please o please continue these types of articles. It is nice to have the information on why things are done to the classes. In addition it helps us understand how the class is designed to play. I wish they would release more dev diaries like this.

Worst changes ever... More buffs to snipers and mercs? So exactly how long are we going to continue pretending you don't specifically play those classes? Or that smug/operatives aren't the most rediculously overpowered class in the game?

... Never? Cool.