How to play deception 101: Spam voltaic-> press everything that glows

To be fair, look up a guide for 4.0 and build reaping strike into it. But no idea where it sits on the priority tbh.

To be fair, look up a guide for 4.0 and build reaping strike into it. But no idea where it sits on the priority tbh.

My best guess is that it's higher priority than an Infiltration Tactics procced Shadow Strike (since Infiltration Tactics has an internal cooldown) but below Psychokinetic Blast since using Vaulting Slash generaltes Circling Shadows.

Other than that, Torval is probably right

This is what I'm getting but I've been testing it for an hour this morning and here are my results:

Ignoring 100% uptime on clairvoyance = 8100 DPS

Prioritizing Shadow Strike over Vaulting Slash = 8100 DPS

Prioritizing Vaulting Slash over Shadow strike = 8100 DPS

So I don't know what's up, actually, because I know you can do 9K in 224 gear cause one of my guildies did it on his infiltration Shadow Saturday.

Highest Parsely Parse is 9840 (Infiltration is the #1 Parsing Spec).

However some of these really high parses might be due to the fact that sometimes your stance is doubled and sometimes it's not, a bug currently effecting all classes.

~ Eudoxia

Recklessness > Discharge > Reaping Strike > Ball Lightning > Maul > Voltaic Slash > Voltaic Slash > Ball Lightning > Discharge > Phantom Stride > Discharge.

That's the deception rotation/priority. Basically that's your opener, and then use it as a priority guide with recklessness and phantom stride on cooldown to proc your discharge. If you get the utility you can throw in a free assassinate after the phantom stride as well.

Sorry for the imp terminology.

My question is: Is the top parses having the bugged stance? Where it procs Discharge/Force Breach way faster than intended?

EDIT: The top parser killed the dummie in 150secs and did 33 Force Breach hits.. That's a Force Breach every 4.5secs, his stance is bugged.

Recklessness > Discharge > Reaping Strike > Ball Lightning > Maul > Voltaic Slash > Voltaic Slash > Ball Lightning > Discharge > Phantom Stride > Discharge.

 

That's the deception rotation/priority. Basically that's your opener, and then use it as a priority guide with recklessness and phantom stride on cooldown to proc your discharge. If you get the utility you can throw in a free assassinate after the phantom stride as well.

 

Sorry for the imp terminology.

This can't be right, Reaping Strike/Vaulting Slash should not be prioritized over Ball Lightning/Psychokinetic blast since it builds stacks of Circling Shadows to proc Psychokinetic Blast.

I've tested it and switching up Vaulting Slash, Spinning Strike, and Shadow Strike yields little difference in DPS, in the range of 25-75 DPS overall.

My question is: Is the top parses having the bugged stance? Where it procs Discharge/Force Breach way faster than intended?

 

EDIT: The top parser killed the dummie in 150secs and did 33 Force Breach hits.. That's a Force Breach every 4.5secs, his stance is bugged.

Yep. I did it in 19 Force breaches with an unbugged stance, bugged you get about 35-37 per parse. He got 33 obviously cause it was faster and he probably had a pretty high crit rate due to the large margin of error with Shadow.

~ Eudoxia

This can't be right, Reaping Strike/Vaulting Slash should not be prioritized over Ball Lightning/Psychokinetic blast since it builds stacks of Circling Shadows to proc Psychokinetic Blast.

 

I've tested it and switching up Vaulting Slash, Spinning Strike, and Shadow Strike yields little difference in DPS, in the range of 25-75 DPS overall.

 

 

 

Yep. I did it in 19 Force breaches with an unbugged stance, bugged you get about 35-37 per parse. He got 33 obviously cause it was faster and he probably had a pretty high crit rate due to the large margin of error with Shadow.

 

~ Eudoxia

Well you can always switch it back after the opener. The thing is that after that initial use of everything you've got it basically just comes down to using whatever's proc'd. I tried it both ways myself, using it before and after ball lightning, and maybe what it comes down to is that it might just be more prudent to use reaping strike first in a pvp situation and not in pve, since in pvp you just want to get as much damage out in that initial window as possible. In any case, the rest of it is correct. Though who knows what it'll be like once they fix the current static charge bug.

I've been doing my parses unbugged mostly and it's no different, you just gotta work a little harder to make sure you keep uptime on Clairvoyance sometimes.

The bug isn't on static charge/force breach specifically but affects all classes, so sometimes when you log in you have two of your class stance causing you to parse way higher than you should. It affects Shadows and Mercs the most.

~ Eudoxia

This is what I have so far, not sure if this is legit or not, but could probably use a few pointers

Stealth > force potency > spinning kick > force breach > vaulting slash > shadow strike > Psychokinetic blast > shadow stride > spinning strike

This is what I have so far, not sure if this is legit or not, but could probably use a few pointers

 

Stealth > force potency > spinning kick > force breach > vaulting slash > shadow strike > Psychokinetic blast > shadow stride > spinning strike

Never use Potency before Spinning Kick. Because of reasons it's a force attack so it uses a charge that could be better used on a Breach or a Blast. And you should Shadow Stride just after you Breach so firstly you don't waste a stack of Breaching Shadows as you do if you SS just after Blast and secondly you can make 2 back to back crit Breaches.

Never use Potency before Spinning Kick. Because of reasons it's a force attack so it uses a charge that could be better used on a Breach or a Blast. And you should Shadow Stride just after you Breach so firstly you don't waste a stack of Breaching Shadows as you do if you SS just after Blast and secondly you can make 2 back to back crit Breaches.

What rotation do you use? I'm trying to get my proc stacks up to the max, but having trouble getting the right pattern going.

Hey! I'm Jaekmeow, current world #3 deception parse (should have been #2 according to my starparse), and #1/#2 deception on a bunch of HM/NiM bosses in 5.0.

Rotationally, your highest priority is obviously Discharge on 3 stacks, followed by Ball lightning on cooldown so long as you aren't at 3 stacks of your stance. Always go for Recklessness at 0 stacks of your stance. The goal is to maximise the efficiency of your use of Discharge, meaning you are trying to use it as frequently as possible at 3 stacks, without stacks going to waste. This means as well that, in the vast majority of cases, you won't be using Phantom Stride unless you are at 0 stacks of your stance, and preferably, with Recklessness active.

In every possible circumstance, aim to cast lacerate twice before stealthing/combat begins, so your first ball lightning will be activated with 2 stacks of voltage and induction. This means your opener, ability-wise, would be (2x lacerate+stealth before combat) -> recklessness +adrenal -> discharge -> phantom stride -> discharge -> overcharge saber + Ball lightning + force cloak -> voltaic -> maul/discharge -> discharge if a 3 stack discharge wasn't previously available -> recklessness + discharge -> assassinate -> ball lightning -> ....

Priority wise, I put assassinate and maul and reaping strike on the same level but balance them with respect to execute phase and current force, and making sure you assassinate above 30% during the Reaper's Rush proc (I suggest delaying it as long as possible, to be used in the last remaining second or two). Of the three, Reaping strike holds the highest priority, with maul above it only to refresh Dark Embrace. Voltaic is your lowest priority ability (outside of Low Slash and Basic attack), and is used as filler/to refresh Voltage, but I try to forgo using it twice in a row whenever possible due to its higher force cost.

Since energy regen is much better in 5.0, you can get by rotationally without ever using your basic attack, I just try to make sure that I have 2 stacks of Induction before any Ball lightning (without delaying it if possible).

Generally, this is much easier rotationally than in 4.0 due to the lack of RNG on surging charge (due to bug). The only semi-difficult part of the rotation I'd say is the execute phase, where you prioritise assassinate and maul way above reaping strike (due to their low energy cost, higher damage and higher frequency/increased critical strike damage bonus), but you need to fit in voltaic as well to keep your Voltage refreshed.

Until they fix the bug, these are some rotation basics which should help you a lot. When BW fix it (which I'll be a bit sad to see since I'm loving my Assassin more than ever right now!), voltaic will have a much higher priority due to the increased chance of proccing your stance, and in turn this may warrant inclusion of your basic attack as it hits the target thrice and so is the ability most likely to proc your stance on a single target.

What rotation do you use? I'm trying to get my proc stacks up to the max, but having trouble getting the right pattern going.

It depends what you do. For PVE, Jaekmeow pretty much summed it up. For PVP (I'm not the biggest of the expert in PVP, but I'm a decent player) I do Spinning Kick > Potency + Breach > Shadow Stride + Breach > Clairevoyante Strike (to proc your set bonus) > Blast > Spinning Strike > Shadow Strike > Vaulting Slash. This is what you'd do without the bug butt due to it you'll get Breach in between all that, they are priority #1. Just press what shift your opener when you get a Breach to include it.

I'm sure better PVPers than me have better solution and I'd be happy to read them

Hey! I'm Jaekmeow, current world #3 deception parse (should have been #2 according to my starparse), and #1/#2 deception on a bunch of HM/NiM bosses in 5.0.

 

snip

That's because paresely looks at TTK and not DPS to make its ranking. Your DPS is falsely higher because you used an harder hitting ability (Discharge vs Ball Lightning) to end your parse which artificially make your DPS higher.

And Deception 4.0 was far more fun to play. No irritating bug, amazing damage and tight force management.

But I have a question for you. Could you tell me what your gear is ? I'm 8th and you have something like 400 DPS on me.

What rotation do you use? I'm trying to get my proc stacks up to the max, but having trouble getting the right pattern going.

There's a couple of ways to go for PvP, but LudhaninRolgge is right in that you never want to waste a potency charge on spinning kick.

Here are two openers, choose your preferred one depending on circumstances.

1. Spinning kick → Potency + Force breach → Shadow stride + Force breach → Shadow strike → Vaulting slash → Clairvoyant Strike ×2 → Psychokinetic blast → Spinning strike
   
2. Spinning kick → Shadow strike → Potency + Force breach → Shadow stride + Force breach → Vaulting slash → Clairvoyant Strike ×2 → Psychokinetic blast → Spinning strike
   

I prefer the second opener over the first one, because getting Shadow strike in early means your target is sundered and you get DR + increased force regen. The sundering is not a huge deal, but it's still slightly more damage.

The first opener is better vs. sorcs with bubble stun or if for any other reason you can't open at melee range.

Hope this helps.

 

And Deception 4.0 was far more fun to play. No irritating bug, amazing damage and tight force management.

 

But I have a question for you. Could you tell me what your gear is ? I'm 8th and you have something like 400 DPS on me.

I'd say on the one hand, the rotation in 4.0 involved much more decision making, and tighter force management for sure. But on the other hand, the rotation now feels far more dynamic (so many glowing buttons!), and you FEEL stronger, not to mention being stronger as well relative to other classes. It was really frustrating when I was trying to prog on something like nim brontes and running at close to 50 apm while only just managing to keep up with/slightly stay ahead of arsenal mercs who played worse, simply due to class imbalance and surging charge RNG.

At the time of my parse, I was in mostly 224s. I had a 230 relic, 230 implant, and 2 230 set pieces, and a 234 hilt. Currently I'm running mostly 230s/234s with full 240 lethal mods, and only 1 224 relic and 1 224 earpiece. I'll parse again tonight to see where I'm at, here's hoping I have better luck with crits.

The biggest factors in parsing are ability damage ranges, crits and which abilities end up critting, rotation, and most of all, apm.

UPDATE:

Got world #1 parse with the gear update at over 10k

I'd say on the one hand, the rotation in 4.0 involved much more decision making, and tighter force management for sure. But on the other hand, the rotation now feels far more dynamic (so many glowing buttons!), and you FEEL stronger, not to mention being stronger as well relative to other classes. It was really frustrating when I was trying to prog on something like nim brontes and running at close to 50 apm while only just managing to keep up with/slightly stay ahead of arsenal mercs who played worse, simply due to class imbalance and surging charge RNG.

 

At the time of my parse, I was in mostly 224s. I had a 230 relic, 230 implant, and 2 230 set pieces, and a 234 hilt. Currently I'm running mostly 230s/234s with full 240 lethal mods, and only 1 224 relic and 1 224 earpiece. I'll parse again tonight to see where I'm at, here's hoping I have better luck with crits.

 

The biggest factors in parsing are ability damage ranges, crits and which abilities end up critting, rotation, and most of all, apm.

 

UPDATE:

 

Got world #1 parse with the gear update at over 10k

You won't reach those numbers once the stance bug is fixed so enjoy it until then.

I'd say on the one hand, the rotation in 4.0 involved much more decision making, and tighter force management for sure. But on the other hand, the rotation now feels far more dynamic (so many glowing buttons!), and you FEEL stronger, not to mention being stronger as well relative to other classes. It was really frustrating when I was trying to prog on something like nim brontes and running at close to 50 apm while only just managing to keep up with/slightly stay ahead of arsenal mercs who played worse, simply due to class imbalance and surging charge RNG.

Don't get me wrong, I quite love the new rotation and will be sad when my sub will run out to not play my shadow anymore, but 4.0 version (and I talk about early 4.0, before the nerf) was way less forgiving so when you were good that meant you were a really good Infiltration player. Now since you pretty much just have to press buttons as they light up, the rotation really feels less rewarding since anybody can be good at it. It feels like Arsenal now.

At the time of my parse, I was in mostly 224s. I had a 230 relic, 230 implant, and 2 230 set pieces, and a 234 hilt. Currently I'm running mostly 230s/234s with full 240 lethal mods, and only 1 224 relic and 1 224 earpiece. I'll parse again tonight to see where I'm at, here's hoping I have better luck with crits.

You've been grinding a lot then (or have been really lucky). I fear I cannot compete with that type of gear

The biggest factors in parsing are ability damage ranges, crits and which abilities end up critting, rotation, and most of all, apm.

Oh I now, I parsed quite a lot during 3.0 and 4.0. I was somewhere in the top 20 for Infiltration/Deception during 3.0. Couldn't go higher because I could only have 2 or 3 198 pieces since I started HM somewhere in may.

But I finished 4.0 at the 8th Infiltration/Deception. So I now all that too well

UPDATE:

 

Got world #1 parse with the gear update at over 10k

GG

You won't reach those numbers once the stance bug is fixed so enjoy it until then.

Yeah ikr RIP, but one can hope.

It'd be nice for assassins to have a more than viable dps spec, since hatred is in such a bad place atm.

Yeah ikr RIP, but one can hope.

 

It'd be nice for assassins to have a more than viable dps spec, since hatred is in such a bad place atm.

Bioware doing actual class balance ? Even when you spupply them with all the acutal infos on what to do to achieve it they don't even do it so don't think they'll do it if they have to do all the work.

My usual Opener: Stealth - Shadow Strike - Force Potency - Force Breach - Shadow Stride - Force Breach - Vaulting Slash - Spinning Strike - Psychokinetic Blast - Clairvoyant Strike - Force Breach

If being single targeted through the opener (Will probably pull aggro by 2nd force breach unless guarded) I throw out Deflection to increase DPS.

From this point forward I use a mix of whirling blow, Clairvoyant Strike, and Shadow Strike until stuff procs. Use Force Potency and Shadow stride on CD with Force Breach afterwards. If target is under 30% I use Spinning strike on CD usually in place of fillers.

Try to multi-target as much as possible. This will get Shadow Stride to reset as much as possible. (procs force breach and spinning strike).

I am not the best DPS but I generally pull 7-8K DPS on a dummy with 5 set piece 220 and 220 modded pieces.

build reaping strike into it. But no idea where it sits on the priority tbh.

Above Maul/Shadow Strike, below Discharge/Breach and Assassinate/Spinning Strike.

It has a cooldown so you will want to use it as often as possible. But it's use is completely wasted if you override already active and capped procs. Execute is always top prio because you never know when you can use it again, Breach is top prio because overriding procs is (more) wasted damage (than the +1GCD of cooldown on Reaping Strike).

For PvE it'll be different because you can execute on cooldown. To be honest though the only thing that then changes is that keeping up stacks of Clair/Volt will have the next priority right after executing. Then proceed as above.

Edit: And in PvE Breach is absolute prio, rather than execute. Because procs and force management. (I mean, its hard but if you randomly hit stuff you CAN still run out of force)

Never use Potency before Spinning Kick. Because of reasons it's a force attack so it uses a charge that could be better used on a Breach or a Blast. And you should Shadow Stride just after you Breach so firstly you don't waste a stack of Breaching Shadows as you do if you SS just after Blast and secondly you can make 2 back to back crit Breaches.

Spinning kick hits pretty god damn hard theise days tbf, using potency on it is still ill-advised but definitely not "completely terrible" anymore.

Spinning kick hits pretty gosh darn hard theise days tbf, using potency on it is still ill-advised but definitely not "completely terrible" anymore.

Yeah, I noticed some 10k Spinning kicks when I was trying yesterday.

Coming to think of it, for maximum burst you probably want to open with stride into spinning kick/spike.

Now before you all start doing this I must warn you;

If you do this against any class with ranged or kiting capabilities this is not without risk.

When they realise what you did they can exploit it and make your life pretty terrible.

But as far as maximum burst goes.. Stride > Spike > Discharge > Reck > Discharge > Ball > look at options.. probably got a Reaping Strike(1) available as well as a Maul(2).

And if this got them in execution range, then obviously Assassinate(TOP).

Now if you also got Reaper's Rush you'll want to squeeze an Assassinate between that Spike and first Discharge as well. Honestly.. this burst, if unchecked, is completely ridiculous