AshlaBoga Posted November 24, 2012 Share Posted November 24, 2012 My only gripe with the Dread Guard Relic of Emphereal Mending is that the Elite War Hero Relic of Boundless Ages (120 Power) gives me more situational control. I'm sure that if the DG Relic of EM always procced on the two tanks in my 8 man that it would be the clear winner, but I can't control who it procs on right? So I guess I could take advantage of when it procs on a tank to start healing more raid wide damage, but much the damage in a fight like NiM Z&T is hard (at least for me) to predict. Should I upgrade my War Hero Relic of BA to the Elite version? Or should I buy the DG Relic of EM now? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AidanLightwalker Posted November 24, 2012 Share Posted November 24, 2012 Im not sure about healing, but for pve the dread gaurd is still better than the elite warhero. 120 power per secon vs 134.5. Now for pvp, the elite will be better due to its expertise allocation. It seems bioware has figured out how to make pvp and pve relics content appropriate for dps specs. It's about time lol. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kronos_MK Posted November 24, 2012 Share Posted November 24, 2012 I ve read what everyone has said up til this point (thank you also, btw, great content) and I have 1 or 2 questions based on these conclusions. C. It has been confirmed that if you have a dps class that has armor penetration, then the kinetic/energy relic is better than the internal/elemental relic. Q. But is this true for a Carnage Marauder who gets (Gore) 100% armor penetration for 4.5 seconds every 15 seconds during a fight? C. It has been confirmed that the dot based specs like a Pyrotech Powertech would get the most benefit from the DG relic of boundless ages and the DG internal proc relic. Q. But for that same dps class with a talent for main stat increase (9% increase) on aim for example, since alot of guys use the matrix cube over the warhero relic (ie. because main stat is superior to power cus of the talent), is the DG internal proc relic still better than the Matrix cube? (based on the assumption that the DG Boundless Ages relic is superior to the DG internal Proc relic in general) I apologize in advance if this is so simple its not worth my asking but i havent read anything here yet to make it too self-explanatory, so thus the inquiry. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AidanLightwalker Posted November 25, 2012 Share Posted November 25, 2012 I ve read what everyone has said up til this point (thank you also, btw, great content) and I have 1 or 2 questions based on these conclusions. C. It has been confirmed that if you have a dps class that has armor penetration, then the kinetic/energy relic is better than the internal/elemental relic. Q. But is this true for a Carnage Marauder who gets (Gore) 100% armor penetration for 4.5 seconds every 15 seconds during a fight? C. It has been confirmed that the dot based specs like a Pyrotech Powertech would get the most benefit from the DG relic of boundless ages and the DG internal proc relic. Q. But for that same dps class with a talent for main stat increase (9% increase) on aim for example, since alot of guys use the matrix cube over the warhero relic (ie. because main stat is superior to power cus of the talent), is the DG internal proc relic still better than the Matrix cube? (based on the assumption that the DG Boundless Ages relic is superior to the DG internal Proc relic in general) I apologize in advance if this is so simple its not worth my asking but i havent read anything here yet to make it too self-explanatory, so thus the inquiry. For Q, this is a good question. THEORETICALLY- if we do the math on gore/precision strike, thats 4.5 seconds every 15 seconds making it 4.5/15 = 0.3 or 30%, judt like the mercs. Now its argueable that even though the ration is 30%, it only happens once (4.5 sec) in a window of 15 seconds. And since the relic CAN proc once every 4.5 seconds, you could get one in that window, or none througb out the 15 second window. IF one does get through thou, it would be for 100% penetration vs the merc 30%. I know I've personally seen some proc for over 500 pts. Do these windows even out? Im not sure right now. I will have to run the numbers more in depth later. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AidanLightwalker Posted November 25, 2012 Share Posted November 25, 2012 And ghe 500pts of damage is possible. I have a surge rating of very close (very close lol) 79% and I believe the proc is 280. If crited, under gore/precision slash, 280 * .78 = 221.2, 221.2 + 280 = 501.2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NaNoZmX Posted November 26, 2012 Share Posted November 26, 2012 (edited) I'm not sure. Did they ever fix the Crit-chance-bug on the internal-version? What bug are you refering to? I'd want to know because I have the internal one and i noticed that the crit% for the relic didn't match any of my crit% (melee or force) Does the crit% of the relics are affected by the Juyo stacks (+15% crit chance for bleeds @5stacks)? (I assume it doesn't because the talent in the spec says "Your bleed effects..." and I think that the proc from the relic isn't considered as a bleed) And as a warrior i have 30% crit melee and 37% crit force, which crit% determines the crit chance of the relic? Can I expect 30 or 37% crit for it? (I know that attacks types have no relations with damages types, that's why i ask which crit% will be taken into account) For the record I did a few tests (~10), and the relic procs every 5.7sec (so this is OK), but i was quite disapointed when i saw that it only crits for ~21-23%. My tests were done on the ops dummy during 10 minutes each time and none had 30% crit chance on the relic effect. I haven't enough comms to buy the elemental one for the moment in order to test this so if someone have tested it I would be glad to know how it looks. PS: sorry for my bad english Edited November 26, 2012 by NaNoZmX Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aurojiin Posted November 26, 2012 Share Posted November 26, 2012 Should I upgrade my War Hero Relic of BA to the Elite version? Or should I buy the DG Relic of EM now? Mending relics are only optimal for Shadow/Sin tanks. They're quite terrible for healers. Stick with the Dread Guard and EWH Boundless Ages relics. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RyanTwoDeeTwo Posted November 26, 2012 Share Posted November 26, 2012 So what would be the best relics for a Combat Medic Commando now please? I currently use a War Hero Relic of Boundless Ages and a Matrix Cube. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dipstik Posted November 26, 2012 Share Posted November 26, 2012 So what would be the best relics for a Combat Medic Commando now please? I currently use a War Hero Relic of Boundless Ages and a Matrix Cube. elite war hero (power) and on use power DG Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CrixusBoR Posted November 27, 2012 Share Posted November 27, 2012 Some very interesting analysis in this thread. Just trying to work out what's best for my Gunslinger. Say, in a DF build, do any of these % chance additional damage Relics count as bleeds? (just wondering, that, if so, and it crits, would it help restore additional energy with the talent skill "Fighting Spirit"? Apologies if this has already been answered. Thanks! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BreakingNews Posted November 27, 2012 Share Posted November 27, 2012 I'm currently conflicted between 3 relics too chose from to use in conjunction with my DG relic of boundless ages. Currently, I'm stuck between my matrix cube, WH relic of boundless ages, or the DG kinetic relic. Has anybody parsed between all 3 of these relics? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AshlaBoga Posted November 27, 2012 Share Posted November 27, 2012 I'm currently conflicted between 3 relics too chose from to use in conjunction with my DG relic of boundless ages. Currently, I'm stuck between my matrix cube, WH relic of boundless ages, or the DG kinetic relic. Has anybody parsed between all 3 of these relics? The Matrix cube isn't even close to BiS. Other than that I don't know. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
theblaznee Posted November 28, 2012 Share Posted November 28, 2012 With all this talk about BiS For shadow/sin tanks, what would be BiS for VG/PT tanks? I'm thinking Shield/absorb proc DG relic with a static shield/absorb pvp relic in the other slot.. Or? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nbayer Posted November 28, 2012 Share Posted November 28, 2012 It's looking like there is a correlation between damage type and the crit rating the relic uses. Kinetic/internal using tech crit and elemental/energy using force crit, I can't say it's true for sure but I wanted to bring it up at least. See page 3 of this thread in the commando forums: http://www.swtor.com/community/showthread.php?t=556288&page=3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LarryRow Posted November 28, 2012 Share Posted November 28, 2012 With all this talk about BiS For shadow/sin tanks, what would be BiS for VG/PT tanks? I'm thinking Shield/absorb proc DG relic with a static shield/absorb pvp relic in the other slot.. Or? Why the proc relic (which only buffs absorb, not shield) and not the triggerable shield/absorb pve relic? I'm thinking PvP Defense relic and triggerable PvE Defense relic for my Guardian. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KeyboardNinja Posted November 28, 2012 Share Posted November 28, 2012 With all this talk about BiS For shadow/sin tanks, what would be BiS for VG/PT tanks? I'm thinking Shield/absorb proc DG relic with a static shield/absorb pvp relic in the other slot.. Or? I don't have an up to date spreadsheet for VG/PT. My guess would be the WH defense relic and the proc absorb. The proc absorb relic was always better for VG/PT than it was for shadows. Don't use the activated tanking relics; they're quite bad unless you're tanking a boss with infrequent m/r burst phases. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bugattiboy Posted November 28, 2012 Share Posted November 28, 2012 (edited) So it looks like, from I'm seeing in this thread, that for a Watchman Sentinel that can run EC NiM and TFB HM that the BiS relics are: 1. Dread Guard Internal/Elemental Proc Relic 2. Dread Guard Relic of Boundless Ages Is this correct? And I'm currently running a internal proc relic and my matrix cube. What relics should I be using for progression ops. Edited November 28, 2012 by Bugattiboy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kitru Posted November 28, 2012 Share Posted November 28, 2012 Don't use the activated tanking relics; they're quite bad unless you're tanking a boss with infrequent m/r burst phases. Considering most of the bosses in the current tier of content do just that (either by having you swap aggro on a single major target between the 2 tanks or by swapping between 2 bosses that specialize in different types of damage dealt), I'd have to wonder why you think they're "bad" when they're actually a better to way to leverage increased survivability when you need it rather than having it up at all times, including those when it's not even useful, which amount to 40-50% of the time on the said bosses. I've always found that I get better performance out of the tanking use relics than I do out of the passive relics on all 3 of my tanks, but I actually *use* them. If you're having a problem with any of the use relics, it's not a problem with the relic itself but the player's reticence to actually use said relic. It's like complaining that a survivability CD isn't strong enough because you don't use it often enough. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nbayer Posted November 28, 2012 Share Posted November 28, 2012 So it looks like, from I'm seeing in this thread, that for a Watchman Sentinel that can run EC NiM and TFB HM that the BiS relics are: 1. Dread Guard Internal/Elemental Proc Relic 2. Dread Guard Relic of Boundless Ages Is this correct? And I'm currently running a internal proc relic and my matrix cube. What relics should I be using for progression ops. See my post above about crit rating, it appears like elemental is for force users and internal is for tech. I'm not 100% sure, but you should take it into consideration before getting one relic over another. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LarryRow Posted November 28, 2012 Share Posted November 28, 2012 Considering most of the bosses in the current tier of content do just that (either by having you swap aggro on a single major target between the 2 tanks or by swapping between 2 bosses that specialize in different types of damage dealt), I'd have to wonder why you think they're "bad" when they're actually a better to way to leverage increased survivability when you need it rather than having it up at all times, including those when it's not even useful, which amount to 40-50% of the time on the said bosses. I've always found that I get better performance out of the tanking use relics than I do out of the passive relics on all 3 of my tanks, but I actually *use* them. If you're having a problem with any of the use relics, it's not a problem with the relic itself but the player's reticence to actually use said relic. It's like complaining that a survivability CD isn't strong enough because you don't use it often enough. Only 2 paragraphs? Kitru, are you feeling okay!? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ephesia Posted November 29, 2012 Share Posted November 29, 2012 Why the proc relic (which only buffs absorb, not shield) and not the triggerable shield/absorb pve relic? I'm thinking PvP Defense relic and triggerable PvE Defense relic for my Guardian. The Absorb proc relic grants 113 Endurance as well as 455 Absorb Rating for 6 seconds every 20 seconds. It is a very useful relic, the clicky relic just adds one more button to mash to the already complicated guardian rotation and PVP Relic is better anyway. In some particular fights like Kephess Absorb Relic shines, while in fights with multitude of swaps like Toth Zorn or Firebrand Stormcaller (a lot of moving) a Static Defense PVP relic will be much better. It is safe to say that BiS for Guardian Tank is to get 2 PVP Imperiling Serenity Relics and also get Dread Guard Shield Amplification relic for specific fights that are more static nevertheless hard hitting. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NaNoZmX Posted November 29, 2012 Share Posted November 29, 2012 (edited) See my post above about crit rating, it appears like elemental is for force users and internal is for tech. I'm not 100% sure, but you should take it into consideration before getting one relic over another. As a Watchman Marauder i can affirm that Internal relic has around 15-20% crit chance, and elemental one has 40-42% crit chance, as I have 41% crit force buffed, i assume that your statement about force/tech users is correct. So for force users BiS should be: 1. Dread Guard Elemental Proc Relic 2. Dread Guard Relic of Boundless Ages Edited November 29, 2012 by NaNoZmX Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
greg_biochem Posted November 29, 2012 Share Posted November 29, 2012 As a Watchman Marauder i can affirm that Internal relic has around 15-20% crit chance, and elemental one has 40-42% crit chance, as I have 41% crit force buffed, i assume that your statement about force/tech users is correct. So for force users BiS should be: 1. Dread Guard Elemental Proc Relic 2. Dread Guard Relic of Boundless Ages So would I be correct in assuming that means for non-force users, ei. a Gunslinger, BiS would be: 1. Dread Guard Internal Proc Relic 2. Dread Guard Relic of Boundless Ages Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dipstik Posted November 29, 2012 Share Posted November 29, 2012 yes, except for specs that have 30%+ armor penetration, in which case you want to use the kinetic proc dmg relic Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mugen_no_Jidai Posted November 30, 2012 Share Posted November 30, 2012 Don't operations bosses have some sort of elemental resistance? If this is taken into account, (assuming that isn't the case for internal damage--I don't know?), is the elemental one still BIS for force users? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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