Just wondering, if Darth Sidious was the most powerful sith lord ever and could kill people with a single burst of lightning. How powerful was Mace Windu to be able to reflect it back on sidious and almost kill him?

Was Mace just as or more powerful than Yoda?

Thanks for the reply!

I thought that it might of been a ruse also. I was just wondering about it. I wish I could understand the lore a little better its really confuses me sometimes. Like how powerful the emperor is and how no jedi comes close because of what they belive or the way they practice restraint, its a wonder how they would win agaisnt anything

I don't think it's a question of Windu being powerful but rather the skills to use those power. For example, a single X-Wing Fighter is able to take out the Deathstar, does that make the X-Wing more powerful?

Thas a good point! I would imagine that emperor would have better skills though because he has had more time to atune them and hone those skills? Unless he was just a old lazy guy?

Just wondering, if Darth Sidious was the most powerful sith lord ever and could kill people with a single burst of lightning. How powerful was Mace Windu to be able to reflect it back on sidious and almost kill him?

 

Was Mace just as or more powerful than Yoda?

In that duel I think he was as powerful as Yoda or stronger. Note that before the duel he was able to rival Yoda in lightsaber combat. It states in the novel that he gave himself more to his form than ever before. Pushing him closest to the dark side than he's ever been. This means, at that moment, he took a massive gamble and likely was stronger than he ever was before.

Yet even so. He was going to die. He was just about to lose his grip on his lightsaber just before Sidious played weak. If it kept going his saber would have flown from his hand (much as it did Yoda's) and well.. out the window he would have went.

George Lucas is on record as stating that Mace legitimately defeated Sidious.

Thought you might want to know.

Its widely known that Sidious was far from being the most powerful sith lord ever. He was a choir boy compared to some of the earlier emperors.

Mace Windu was a very powerful Jedi and would rightly give Sidious a run for his money.

The big question however and the thing that really winds me up is; How does Sidious kill Kit Fisto so easily. A true master of Shii-cho and a Jedi legend, gets cut down in half a second?

I dont think so Mr Lucas....

Its widely known that Sidious was far from being the most powerful sith lord ever. He was a choir boy compared to some of the earlier emperors.

 

Mace Windu was a very powerful Jedi and would rightly give Sidious a run for his money.

 

The big question however and the thing that really winds me up is; How does Sidious kill Kit Fisto so easily. A true master of Shii-cho and a Jedi legend, gets cut down in half a second?

 

I dont think so Mr Lucas....

Because Sidious was superior to him in saber skill.

Its widely known that Sidious was far from being the most powerful sith lord ever. He was a choir boy compared to some of the earlier emperors.

 

Mace Windu was a very powerful Jedi and would rightly give Sidious a run for his money.

 

The big question however and the thing that really winds me up is; How does Sidious kill Kit Fisto so easily. A true master of Shii-cho and a Jedi legend, gets cut down in half a second?

 

I dont think so Mr Lucas....

I think it had more to do with Fisto and the other jedi being taken by surprise than anything else. They went to arrest Palpatine, thinking he would come peacefully like a nice old man. Instead they got a nasty shock from the darkside and before anyone could think of anything Sidious was upon them slashing with a lightsaber (which they also probably didnt think he had) and in the confusion Kitt just got cought by surprise.

Just wondering, if Darth Sidious was the most powerful sith lord ever and could kill people with a single burst of lightning. How powerful was Mace Windu to be able to reflect it back on sidious and almost kill him?

 

Was Mace just as or more powerful than Yoda?

Windu is in my opinion, the second best duelist in SW. Standing right behind Luke.

He mastered all 7 forms and created one, and then he has shatterpoint.

He beat Palpatine in terms of Lightsaber combat, but Windu is little compared to Palpatine in terms of the Force. Palpatine was seconds before disarming WIndu with his lightning, Windu(As stated by Rhyltran, your my evidence) was dead before he flew out the window.

Windu, domination.

Its widely known that Sidious was far from being the most powerful sith lord ever. He was a choir boy compared to some of the earlier emperors.

 

Mace Windu was a very powerful Jedi and would rightly give Sidious a run for his money.

 

The big question however and the thing that really winds me up is; How does Sidious kill Kit Fisto so easily. A true master of Shii-cho and a Jedi legend, gets cut down in half a second?

 

I dont think so Mr Lucas....

Windu stayed because of Vapaad. The movie didn't show it because it would look weird, but think of Sidious as moving like the Flash.

Vapaad is all about speed, therefore he could keep up in the beginning.

Windu stayed because of Vapaad. The movie didn't show it because it would look weird, but think of Sidious as moving like the Flash.

 

Vapaad is all about speed, therefore he could keep up in the beginning.

Plus Vapaad isn't a normal fighting style like the other jedi masters were using, so he quickly dispatched the other masters because he was moving fast and knowing most likely what style they were using and able to exploit the weakness of each one to kill them. Least thats how I saw it really.

Its widely known that Sidious was far from being the most powerful sith lord ever. He was a choir boy compared to some of the earlier emperors.

 

Mace Windu was a very powerful Jedi and would rightly give Sidious a run for his money.

 

The big question however and the thing that really winds me up is; How does Sidious kill Kit Fisto so easily. A true master of Shii-cho and a Jedi legend, gets cut down in half a second?

 

I dont think so Mr Lucas....

This is wrong. Sidious by far the most powerful Sith in star wars.

"Shortly afterwards, Anakin tells Windu he has learned that Palpatine is in fact the Sith Lord Darth Sidious. Windu, accompanied by Jedi Masters Kit Fisto, Agen Kolar, and Saesee Tiin, goes to the Chancellor's office to confront him. Resisting arrest, Palpatine brandishes a red lightsaber and launches himself at the Jedi, killing all three of Windu's companions and engaging him in a lightsaber duel. Windu gains the upper hand and disarms the Sith Lord, who fires Force lightning at him; Windu blocks the lightning with his lightsaber and directs it back at Palpatine, scarring the Sith Lord's face. Anakin then arrives and Palpatine begs for help, stating that only he can save Anakin's wife, Padmé Amidala (Natalie Portman). Anakin pleads with Windu not to kill the Chancellor, and that he should stand trial before the Senate. Windu replies that Palpatine controls both the Senate and the courts, and is too dangerous to be kept alive. As Windu prepares to strike, Anakin intervenes and severs Windu's lightsaber hand. Palpatine then casts off his illusion of weakness, and hits Windu with another torrent of lightning, sending Windu plunging out of the chamber window to his death."

sorry for the long winded quote.. got this from wikipedia (but is referenced to starwars.com).

so i guess this means windu was stronger... also tells you why he has ther purple lightsaber there somewhere.... or rather it makes a reason for samuel l jackson to have one lol.

hope this helps.

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"Shortly afterwards, Anakin tells Windu he has learned that Palpatine is in fact the Sith Lord Darth Sidious. Windu, accompanied by Jedi Masters Kit Fisto, Agen Kolar, and Saesee Tiin, goes to the Chancellor's office to confront him. Resisting arrest, Palpatine brandishes a red lightsaber and launches himself at the Jedi, killing all three of Windu's companions and engaging him in a lightsaber duel. Windu gains the upper hand and disarms the Sith Lord, who fires Force lightning at him; Windu blocks the lightning with his lightsaber and directs it back at Palpatine, scarring the Sith Lord's face. Anakin then arrives and Palpatine begs for help, stating that only he can save Anakin's wife, Padmé Amidala (Natalie Portman). Anakin pleads with Windu not to kill the Chancellor, and that he should stand trial before the Senate. Windu replies that Palpatine controls both the Senate and the courts, and is too dangerous to be kept alive. As Windu prepares to strike, Anakin intervenes and severs Windu's lightsaber hand. Palpatine then casts off his illusion of weakness, and hits Windu with another torrent of lightning, sending Windu plunging out of the chamber window to his death."

 

sorry for the long winded quote.. got this from wikipedia (but is referenced to starwars.com).

 

so i guess this means windu was stronger... also tells you why he has ther purple lightsaber there somewhere.... or rather it makes a reason for samuel l jackson to have one lol.

 

hope this helps.

 

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Wikipedia fails to mention that Anakin was in the same room as it was going on (the lightning and Windu blocking it) and Windu was just about to lose hi grip on his saber before Sidious goes "I'm too weak. Don't let him kill me"

Its widely known that Sidious was far from being the most powerful sith lord ever. He was a choir boy compared to some of the earlier emperors.

 

Mace Windu was a very powerful Jedi and would rightly give Sidious a run for his money.

 

The big question however and the thing that really winds me up is; How does Sidious kill Kit Fisto so easily. A true master of Shii-cho and a Jedi legend, gets cut down in half a second?

 

I dont think so Mr Lucas....

Shii-Cho is the mastery of fighting many opponents not so powerful vs just one.

But yeah those were four very powerful Jedi and its doubtful considering Mace was able to take him down solo that Mace+3 wouldn't fair so well.

I advise some people watch the clip from Eps III - Windu Vs Sidious

When Windu (and friends) goes to arrest Sidious they weren't caught by surprise. They have their lightsabers out, sidious pulls out his lightsaber and a fight ensues. Kit Fisto did die a very lame way but from a movie point of view as he wasn't a well known character there would of been no point for him to take part in the Windu Vs Sidious duel and die later on (in a maybe cooler fashion)

Windu knows that Sidious is a sith lord and wants to arrest him and bring him to trial. But after the duel he says to Anakin he is to dangerous to keep alive. This leads me to believe that Windu might of gone to far to the dark side to be able to overcome Sidious. He might of had the upper hand but at a cost.

If Windu killed Sidious, would he (windu) have completed his path to the dark side without knowing it?

Or would he still of been able to keep himself on the lightside if he had killed Sidious?

Anakin does walk in before Sidious uses the force lightning. So another question would be was it all staged by Sidious?

Windu did have the upper hand at the end before Anakin walked in. Windu had disarmed Sidious of his lightsaber.

Maybe when Sidious noticed Anakin walking in he used his force lighting knowing that Windu would block it, hence disfiguring himself and even risking his own life to get pity from Anakin. (Sidious ofcourse in the EU has a clone waiting for him so death wouldnt really matter). Sidious was also playing the Padme card to get Anakin onto his side.

Then again it might not of been staged.

Anakin only attacked Windu because he was going to kill Sidious.

Had Windu not attempted to kill Sidious, would Anakin of had helped him (windu) to arrest Sidious? Would then another duel of between Sidious Vs Windu & Anakin happen?

Would Sidious use his force lighting on Windu when he wasnt paying attention and if Sidous had succeeded in defeating Windu try to convince Anakin by using the Padme card that it had to happen this way?

There is a lot of If's & But's that arise from speculating over this fight. Why certain things happened and what could of happend.

Sidious won against Windu but only with the help of Anakin. Windu would of clearly won against Sidious, he had disarmed him of his lightsaber and was going to strike him down, but at what cost and risk of going over to the dark side? Sidious only attacked Windu once Anakin had cut Windu's hand off. Which would of given Sidious the knowledge that Anakin wouldnt fight against him and more likely to join him.

To answer the topic:

I dont believe that Windu was stronger than Sidious. Maybe Windu was better at Lightsaber combat, only second to (some even say on par with) Yoda. Sidious is obviously much stronger with the force.

I advise some people watch the clip from Eps III - Windu Vs Sidious

 

When Windu (and friends) goes to arrest Sidious they weren't caught by surprise. They have their lightsabers out, sidious pulls out his lightsaber and a fight ensues. Kit Fisto did die a very lame way but from a movie point of view as he wasn't a well known character there would of been no point for him to take part in the Windu Vs Sidious duel and die later on (in a maybe cooler fashion)

 

Windu knows that Sidious is a sith lord and wants to arrest him and bring him to trial. But after the duel he says to Anakin he is to dangerous to keep alive. This leads me to believe that Windu might of gone to far to the dark side to be able to overcome Sidious. He might of had the upper hand but at a cost.

If Windu killed Sidious, would he (windu) have completed his path to the dark side without knowing it?

Or would he still of been able to keep himself on the lightside if he had killed Sidious?

 

Anakin does walk in before Sidious uses the force lightning. So another question would be was it all staged by Sidious?

Windu did have the upper hand at the end before Anakin walked in. Windu had disarmed Sidious of his lightsaber.

Maybe when Sidious noticed Anakin walking in he used his force lighting knowing that Windu would block it, hence disfiguring himself and even risking his own life to get pity from Anakin. (Sidious ofcourse in the EU has a clone waiting for him so death wouldnt really matter). Sidious was also playing the Padme card to get Anakin onto his side.

Then again it might not of been staged.

 

Anakin only attacked Windu because he was going to kill Sidious.

Had Windu not attempted to kill Sidious, would Anakin of had helped him (windu) to arrest Sidious? Would then another duel of between Sidious Vs Windu & Anakin happen?

Would Sidious use his force lighting on Windu when he wasnt paying attention and if Sidous had succeeded in defeating Windu try to convince Anakin by using the Padme card that it had to happen this way?

 

There is a lot of If's & But's that arise from speculating over this fight. Why certain things happened and what could of happend.

 

 

Sidious won against Windu but only with the help of Anakin. Windu would of clearly won against Sidious, he had disarmed him of his lightsaber and was going to strike him down, but at what cost and risk of going over to the dark side? Sidious only attacked Windu once Anakin had cut Windu's hand off. Which would of given Sidious the knowledge that Anakin wouldnt fight against him and more likely to join him.

 

To answer the topic:

I dont believe that Windu was stronger than Sidious. Maybe Windu was better at Lightsaber combat, only second to (some even say on par with) Yoda. Sidious is obviously much stronger with the force.

Again, he wouldn't have won against Sidious without Anakin. He won the lightsaber duel. This is without question. However, the novelization even states that Windu's grip on his lightsaber was about to give out when suddenly Sidious stopped. Yes he got disfigured and I agree that Windu was flirting with the dark side. Novelization hints at that too by stating he gave himself more into vaapad than ever before. He never allowed himself to push that deeply into his form but he did in that moment.

Either way if Anakin wasn't there. Lightsaber would have flew from his hand and out the window. However, if he offered to arrest him. I have no doubt both him and Anakin together. Would have taken Sidious down. Note he says to Windu "I need him!" if Windu opted to arrest him. Sidious would have failed in his attempt to turn anakin. He wouldn't keep playing at the "Turn anakin card." Sidious has been shown to lose it when he's denied.

"I AM the senet!" "Then young skywalker.. you will die." In Windu "No.. No.. NO" -force lightning-. Likely.. "Let's let him stand trial then." Sidious would have flipped.

To answer the topic:

I dont believe that Windu was stronger than Sidious. Maybe Windu was better at Lightsaber combat, only second to (some even say on par with) Yoda. Sidious is obviously much stronger with the force.

To quote Yoda:

"No...no...no. Quicker, easier, more seductive."

Dark side powers seem to be more efective in a combat because of their destructive nature, but they're certainly not stronger.

Was Palpatine stronger than Windu or Yoda? I doubt it.

To quote Yoda:

 

 

 

Dark side powers seem to be more efective in a combat because of their destructive nature, but they're certainly not stronger.

 

Was Palpatine stronger than Windu or Yoda? I doubt it.

Yes. Leland Chee and the novel makes it clear that he was.

This is Leland Chee's say on the matter.

"Inside the spacious interior of the Galactic Senate chambers, Yoda challenged the Emperor. The two entered into a spectacular duel -- a contest between the most powerful practitioners of the Force's light and dark sides. The Emperor proved too powerful to defeat. Though Yoda held his own for much of the duel, in the end, the Sith bested him. He realized that directly confronting the Sith would be doomed to failure. Defeated, Yoda slinked away into the shadows of the Senate chamber's cavernous depths, leaping into a waiting getaway speeder piloted by Bail Organa."

From the novel.

"There came a turning point in the clash of the light against the dark.

It did not come from a flash of lightning or slash of energy blade, though there were these in plenty; it did not come from a flying kick or a surgically precise punch, though these were traded, too.

It came as the battle shifted from the holding office to the great Chancellor's Podium; it came as the hydraulic lift beneath the Podium raised it on its tower of durasteel a hundred meters and more, so that it became a laserpoint of battle flaring at the focus of the vast emptiness of the Senate Arena; it came as the Force and the podium's controls ripped delegation pods free of the curving walls and made of them hammers, battering rams, catapult stones crashing and crushing against each other in a rolling thunder-roar that echoed the Senate's cheers for the galaxy's new Emperor.

It came when the avatar of light resolved into the lineage of the Jedi; when the lineage of the Jedi refined into one single Jedi.

It came when Yoda found himself alone against the dark.

In that lightning-speared tornado of feet and fists and blades and bashing machines, his vision finally pierced the darkness that had clouded the Force.

Finally, he saw the truth.

This truth: that he, the avatar of light, Supreme Master of the Jedi Order, the fiercest, most implacable, most devastatingly powerful foe the darkness had ever known...

just--

didn't--

have it.

He'd never had it. He had lost before he started.

He had lost before he was born.

The Sith had changed. The Sith had grown, had adapted, had invested a thousand years' intensive study into every aspect of not only the Force but Jedi lore itself, in preparation for exactly this day. The Sith had remade themselves.

They had become new.

While the Jedi--

The Jedi had spent that same millennium training to refight the last war.

The new Sith could not be destroyed with a lightsaber; they could not be burned away by any torch of the Force. The brighter the light, the darker their shadow. How could one win a war against the dark, when the war itself had become the dark's own weapon?

He knew, at that instant, that this insight held the hope of the galaxy. But if he fell here, that hope would die with him. "

^ well that pretty much sums it all up, as much as it pains me to know that Yoda legitimately lost.

It also pretty much solidifies that Yoda was stronger than Mace, or any Jedi, by the way it describes him, at least in the Force. But was he a better duelist?

And speaking of being wise, I think it's epic that Mace tapped into the dark side while fighting Palpatine- he knew what was at stake, and that holding back his emotions or skills was of little importance at that time. He was even willing to kill Palpatine at the end, clearly against the Jedi way, and he was right- he WAS too dangerous to be left alive. Jedi code or not.

I would love to see where Lucas said Windu legitimately won, because the way it looked in movie, it seemed as though Sidious wasn't as helpless as he made Anakin think. He's so sneaky he destroyed the Republic from within, so it makes sense that he could set up this scene with Windu to convert Anakin, which I think is what he did.

Lucas stated that he genuinely wanted Mace to get the upper hand. When Sidious lost his lightsaber in the commentary he stated Mace won. If you watch his facial expressions vs his facial expressions against Yoda you can clearly see he wasn't happy where his fight with Windu was going. Now the novel sheds a bit more insight in that Windu was about to lose his grip on his saber from his force lightning.

It also states that Windu tapped further into Vaapad than ever before. Windu always held back when using his own style because of how dangerous channeling your own darkness is. He let up on it in that duel. Holding back he was able to occasionally fight Yoda to a draw. If he gave more into it and was able to draw Yoda before hand I think it's safe to say in that moment, in lightsaber combat, Windu was better.

Now when it came to the use of the force.. when Sidious was forced to rely on that. I believe it's safe to say that things would have went badly from there for Windu.