It is possible to create macros (e.g. a respec macro) that act at human speeds. Heck, I can even create a macro that puts some randomness in the delay between keycode events that are sent. My understanding of the ToS is that these are also prohibited. These would probably be harder to detect.

 

E.g. if I could record several attempts at respeccing from DPS to tank (including gear change), select the fastest and then play back an exact recording at the press of a single key that would most definitely be more convenient that actually respeccing manually each time. It is also a clear violation of the ToS.

At that point, yes you're still violating the ToS, and it would be hard to tell. Of course, you'd lose some of the advantage in using a macro if you had it do so at a human level.

That has little to do with Voice chat though, which is that it's not a program effecting ToR's programming and even if they rule it against the ToS, it's unenforceable. It can't be detected and if it is, there's no way to tell if you're using a voip for use with ToR> For the most part the only thing that would come of them ruling it against the ToS would be anti-voip people would dance for joy on the forums, before realize it didn't change a thing in game.

That has little to do with Voice chat though, which is that it's not a program effecting ToR's programming and even if they rule it against the ToS, it's unenforceable. It can't be detected and if it is, there's no way to tell if you're using a voip for use with ToR> For the most part the only thing that would come of them ruling it against the ToS would be anti-voip people would dance for joy on the forums, before realize it didn't change a thing in game.

If Bioware's stance is that they are the MMO equivalent of Kim Jeon-Un then the rules exist at their whim and need no justification (all hail the glorious BW from which all things good flow, glorious leader and protector of the SWTOR-verse et cetera et cetera) and comparing a "incoming west" macro (prohibited) with voice chat is irrelevant. Dixitque Bioware fiat terms of service et facta est terms of service!

In Phillip's most recent post he offered justification why the "incoming west" macro is prohibited. Justification implies that there is logical rational and not mere caprice behind the rules. If the rules are intended to be sensible then the comparison with voice chat is vital to the discussion since voice chat is unstoppable by BW (I can run any of the 3 popular chat clients on my smart phone -- good luck detecting that. I can also hold a LAN party and use VOA technology [voice over air -- i.e. normal speech]).

What about handicapped peeps who lost a hand or an Arm?

And this question is serious, very serious.

 

One click 'enter chat, type 'inc snow!', hit enter' text macros designed to warn others is completely against the ToS. You need to make a decision - do I take the time to type 'inc snow' to the ops group, or do I just keep fighting this person... Think of it as an evaluation on if you are using a tool that gives you an unfair advantage over somebody not using that same tool.

 

I agree that text macros should be against the TOS. I also agree with others who think that VOIP gives an even greater advantage to player's using it in warzones than the advantage obtained by players that use text macros. So, if text macros violate the TOS then the use of VOIP during warzones should also be considered a violation.

Think of it as an evaluation on if you are using a tool (like text macros or VOIP) that gives you an unfair advantage over somebody not using that same tool (like text macros and VOIP do).

Interesting approach there funkiestj.

 

I thought I was pretty clear that one input action must equal only one action in game, but obviously not - so please find below red X's next to the correct answers.

 

Enjoy!

i dont think anyone is questioning whether or not the things mentioned are against the TOS, I think the majority of people questioning what you are saying are asking WHY some of these things are against the Terms of service.

Your justification for disallowing text macros, for example, is utterly ridiculous. If the "decision" between calling out inc, or continuing to fight someone is part of the "skill" of PvP, then why are VOIP programs allowed?

I've trained my pet parrot, Rufus, to watch my games and squawk into an open mic whenever I have incoming, so that I don't have to type OR talk, thus keeping 100% of my focus on the combat.

Is this automation, breaking the ToS?

Thanks for your clarity, Phillip. Your communication is greatly appreciated.

Interesting approach there funkiestj.

 

I thought I was pretty clear that one input action must equal only one action in game, but obviously not - so please find below red X's next to the correct answers.

 

Enjoy!

I suspect the confusion comes from our different (?) definitions of "one action in game". To me "on action in game" means "one instant , cast or channelled ability is activated". I.e. by my understanding use case #1 is allowed because every time the user presses the '1' key, exactly one of {dispatch | guardian slash | strike} abilities gets invoked (i.e. does damage). CAVEAT: if no target is selected or in range then no ability is invoked.

I'm not sure what definition of "one action in game" is that results in use case #1 being prohibited.

Perhaps your definition of "one action in game" is "one keyboard key pressed never results in more than one keycode or mouse click event being sent to SWTOR". Mouse button clicks can map to keycode events and vice versa but there can never be a "one real world event (mouse click) becomes multiple software events (keycodes 1, 2, 3, right button click) being sent".

Too me, allowing use case 4 but disallowing use case 2 makes about as much sense as allowing voice chat but prohibiting a macro that sends "incoming west" in ops chat. (I.e. no sense at all)

Given that I am unable to follow your logic, developing a body of precedents I can refer to is exceedingly valuable to me.

RAZER NAGA COMMENTARY: I'm pretty sure that, given time, I can develop macros based on use case 4 using autohotkey. All useful macro features of the Razer Naga (and related products) are useless IMO. They are not capable of use case 4. All interesting uses of the Naga involve a single key/button press translating into multiple software events. E.g. pressing '1' on the mouse thumbpad sends keycodes for "123" in rapid succession.

If you can think of an interesting use of the Razer Naga's macro facility that is also allowed by the ToS please give an example!

I've trained my pet parrot, Rufus, to watch my games and squawk into an open mic whenever I have incoming, so that I don't have to type OR talk, thus keeping 100% of my focus on the combat.

.

Do you perchance own a breeding pair?

 

One click 'enter chat, type 'inc snow!', hit enter' text macros designed to warn others is completely against the ToS. You need to make a decision - do I take the time to type 'inc snow' to the ops group, or do I just keep fighting this person... Think of it as an evaluation on if you are using a tool that gives you an unfair advantage over somebody not using that same tool.

I dont use macros, but chat message? Really?

This is real bs.

How about voice comm advantages (pug vs rwz premade) or 10-finger typing vs 2/4-finger advantage?

Also, is copying and pasting text into the chat window not allowed either?

^this

Interesting approach there funkiestj.

 

I thought I was pretty clear that one input action must equal only one action in game, but obviously not - so please find below red X's next to the correct answers.

 

Enjoy!

I'm a wrestler and competitor by nature, and I'm the kind of guy that wants to win ON MY OWN. That said, I think it's almost schizophrenic to market a gaming device SPECIFICALLY TO THIS GAME that contains a set of functions, then turn around and declare said function illegal within your game. That make NO sense at all.

I have a simiple 7-button Logitech gaming mouse that does everything I need it to, but I wouldn't macro even if it were possible because it offends my sense of fairness.

However, I think - instead of expecting people to abide by arbitrary rules that are as crazy as they can be - you guys should just pony up the staff to code that stuff out. You don't want people using macros in your game: then fix what makes it possible instead of going all psycho on people that are using the hardware YOU GUYS MARKETED FOR THIS GAME.

When it comes to hacking and stuff, though, I hope you drop the hammer on anyone you catch. Thanks for your time.

P.S.: You wanna know why we complain about this stuff? Because we love this game. It needs a TON of fixing, but you guys have done a LOT of things right. Kudos for that.

P.P.S.: Phillip, I know you're just the messenger so I'm not leveling my complaints at you personally. When I use the term "you" or "you guys" I mean "whoever makes the rules and is responsible for fixing things". Take care!

note, I corrected

 

[ ] example to clear enough to give a ruling

.

to

 

[ ] example not clear enough to give a ruling

In my original post. Sadly the typo still appears in Phillip's quoted response. My bad.

Since voips don't use any information from swtor, it would be impossible to track on their end even if they did want to stop it.

As someone that uses text macros for /emotes I'm now worried about getting detected by your idiot detection system. I've already had friends get banned for opening treasure chests on Corellia and being assumed credit farmers.

PLEASE make toolbar abilities for all emotes if you're going to be scanning for text spam, cause I like to spam /backflip!

Considering the QQ Im seeing defending this stuff...Im fairly sure we've hit a nerve. Bioware you have commented on this...now the challenge is how to prevent it. I agree with other posters and comments where players have said L2P...Learn to Play..not rely on macros , bots or software to play for you or give you that advantage no one else gets.

I suggest this, find a fix, let everyone know its in place, test it if it works roll it out and let players try a month where no one can use this stuff. If matches suck well then you can always reverse it but then show everyone how to do it. Lets level the field and really make it about skill.

Otherwise I say the game should stay forever in preseason because now I have absolutely no faith in the rankings Im seeing or the play Im seeing.

Finally once this system was in place, don't ban players using it just reset their ranks and valour, Im fairly sure theyd get the message soon enough

Finally once this system was in place, don't ban players using it just reset their ranks and valour, Im fairly sure theyd get the message soon enough

That would be funny, knocking someone down 10 valor ranks everytime they get caught might be enough to deter them

I agree that text macros should be against the TOS. I also agree with others who think that VOIP gives an even greater advantage to player's using it in warzones than the advantage obtained by players that use text macros. So, if text macros violate the TOS then the use of VOIP during warzones should also be considered a violation.

 

Think of it as an evaluation on if you are using a tool (like text macros or VOIP) that gives you an unfair advantage over somebody not using that same tool (like text macros and VOIP do).

+

Agree. Voice chat should be banned. It is unfair to those that don't have it.

+

 

Agree. Voice chat should be banned. It is unfair to those that don't have it.

Problem is that's unenforceable. Voice software is something that is used for many, many other things and doesn't directly influence the game (use it's files, or perform an action with in it).

Bioware would have to block every kind of voice program from running at the same time, and that's one **** storm they can't afford to even try and pursue.

Not to mention, PvE'ers are gonna hate you PvP'ers.

Problem is that's unenforceable. Voice software is something that is used for many, many other things and doesn't directly influence the game (use it's files, or perform an action with in it).

 

Bioware would have to block every kind of voice program from running at the same time, and that's one **** storm they can't afford to even try and pursue.

The same problem exists with macro programs and macro keyboard/mice yet they are banned.

+

 

Agree. Voice chat should be banned. It is unfair to those that don't have it.

Bioware wouldn't do that, because it wouldn't be in their financial interests. A huge chunk of the playerbase would quit the game--- not out of spite, but because it would be way less fun. Many people play MMOs for months and months because of the social ties they form in game. Interfering with that would make the game less "sticky."

Not everyone plays MMOs socially, of course, but those who do are more reliable subs.

The same problem exists with macro programs and macro keyboard/mice yet they are banned.

Do macro's not do something in the game? They push keys, which thus tell the game "Do this."

Where as voice chat does not. Bioware has no jurisdiction to say you can't use your phone and play at the same time. They can heavily suggest it, but they really have no ability to tell people they can't use a voice program, as long as the program doesn't do something in the game.

If a voice program could some how make what you said heard by everyone, then there would be a problem cause your input into that program has an out put into the game.

A Macro gives a player an advantage over other players.

Voice chat gives a player an advantage over other players.

A Macro gives a player an advantage over other players.

 

Voice chat gives a player an advantage over other players.

Don't think any one is denying that.

The problem is what does Bioware have the authority to say? They can make policy about anything that has -input- into their game or somehow uses it's files.

Macro's -input- into the game. You press a key, and the macro tells the game "X, y, z, has been pushed."

Voice chat does not input into the game. It is a separate program, it doesn't do anything to the game. It runs outside the game and never touches the game.

Bioware has no authority to tell someone they can't use a voice program because it's not in their realm of control. That's all.

+

 

Agree. Voice chat should be banned. It is unfair to those that don't have it.

good luck with having my Windows 7 SWTOR client try to block my ventrilo, teamspeak, mumble or skype client on my iphone.

There is also conference calling options on the traditional telephone system (e.g. I dial into one of these for my leagues annual fantasy football draft). Don't forget to block LAN parties as they enable VOA (voice over air) technology that humans have been using since the dawn of man.

That would be funny, knocking someone down 10 valor ranks everytime they get caught might be enough to deter them

What is valor? Do I need it for anything useful?