While I applaud BW at attempting to inject WPvP into this game; as I find it to be the most engaging and fun PvP possible: it's pathetic that we're this far past launch and trying to figure this out now.

 

We told you all in beta (along with other numerous issues in PvP) that WPvP was pathetic....at best. However, so few people ever made it to 50 that we didn't have the weight to be heard; and every time you tried to grant 50s, you crashed the servers.

 

How you didn't recognize that WPvP was an important issue that needed serious consideration is beyond me. There was an untold number of threads in both the non-beta and beta forums about that very issue.

 

8v8 PvP in a box while humping pillars is only going to entertain people for so long; whether or not there's some lame rating attached to them. MMOs are uniquely suited to host large scale PvP. However, it does require some development to support that kind of activity in one area.

 

It was something Pre-CU SWG was able to accomplish relatively well in 2003. The Bestine vs Anchorhead battles on Bloodfin were huge; often involving well over 100 players between the sides, and lasting for hours. Hell even early GCW static-base fights post NGE on Bloodfin would reach those numbers and last for 18 hrs + (obviously with varying numbers as people logged off to sleep). How was SOE (arguably the worst MMO developer in MMO history) able to accomplish this; but you, BW, started a lag fest for so many when numbers reached more than 25.

 

I've already unsubbed my account. The total and utter lack of WPvP at any level was a large part of this. For me to re-sub I'd require a few things:

• A 180 degree change in direction as to BWs support of WPvP
  
• Free Server Transfer for all of my lvl 50 toons to a server of choice
  
• At least a free week to test the changes.
  

When an MMOs forums become more fun than the game itself, the game has a problem.

 

I missed the poll, but my vote would've been PvPvE.

Edited April 20, 2012 by Telaan

'Raw' Open World - faction vs faction, with no faction population restriction mechanics AKA 'true' Open World PvP. Factions claim objectives.

 

PvPvE balanced - bolstering the underdog faction through NPCs, turrets, etc. Factions claim objectives.

 

Faction population capped - strict balancing in place between faction populations in objective areas. Factions claim objectives.

 

Guild based - everyone is your enemy except players in your guild. Guilds claim objectives.

 

Raw OWPvP has it's place. It is always fun, but it is inevitably going to become unbalanced. Other than a player driven event, you will never see both sides with the same number of forces.

 

PvPvE: This system works, but not really on a large scale. The server based help would necessarily have to be overpowered - and would need to be updated with every new tier of PvP gear. These upgrades would impede undergeared players from participating.

 

Faction Population Cap: We see this in WZs already. Unlike WZs, for this to work there must be a staging point that doesn't allow players into the environment until both pop caps are reached. Otherwise you end up with 3v8, or 5v16, etc.

 

Guild Based: SWG had guild wars where once entered into the "contract" the only way to stop the GW was surrender (and utter humiliation) or disbanding the guild. In the later years SWG allowed opt-in/opt-out of guildwars for professions such as crafters and entertainers. The system worked, because it was purely voluntary.

 

I honestly can't say that I'm very excited about any of these ideas. In addition, I fail to see the purpose of rolling on a PvP server given that Korribon, Hutta, Tython, Coruscant are unreachable by off-faction (which I agree with). However, Taris also supports no PvP. PvP servers were ultimately doomed from the beginning since not all "joint" planets are level aligned.

I feel the answer to your problem is much closer to your nose than you may realize.

 

Me being an ex-WoW pvp fanatic, would have to say they had a very legitimate system as far as pvp goes. I feel if you want notes and hints, why not learn from a system that's been doing it for over 10 years....They may be losing players due to the stupidity and lack of creativity via "Pandas", but I will say their pvp system worked. So as far as Open world pvp or just general warzone and related functions. Seek the help of the old and wiser.

 

If you want people to utilize world pvp, they will need incentive...I'm sure we all know what people on this game who pvp or even pve want.... More gear

If you want people to utilize world pvp, they will need incentive...I'm sure we all know what people on this game who pvp or even pve want.... More gear

 

How about a level 50 Open World PvP area like an Outlaws Den that has chests that drop Grade 7/8 Crafting Materials maybe on a 30 minute respawn timer? The crafting material for crafting PvP Armor/Mods/Enhancements that is!

 

 

I hear these Materials drop on Explosive Conflict, but then PvP'ers are forces to PvE. I think this is a good solution.

Edited April 20, 2012 by Defdaddy

Open world or WZ's it simply does not matter until PVP is balanced and the issues with lag and OP classes is resolved.

 

Bioware really needs to stop focusing on adding more and more to the game when much of the content currently in the game is bugged and unbalanced. Its great Bioware is trying to add more content, but let me explain what a new 50's player comes into even with a full set of the new recruit gear...

 

Run into WZ get hit 3-4 times click return to med center... Over and over and over again. The same thing happens to players in full BM so its not all that surprising. As much as I really hate to say it the Damage bonus given from Expertise is simply out of control. If anything it should be removed as a mechanic. Its awesome that so many games try and copy the same basic system that does nothing to improve PVP, but still they continue.

 

The Quality of PVP simply has not improved with 1.2 if anything it has actually lost much of its fun. I mean really how much fun is it to run in and die faster than you can count to 10?

 

Pre-1.2 there were classes that were simply to strong, and by that I am talking about classes that could kill anyone with no chance to counter or fight back. Other classes could spam 1-3 attacks and wipe the floor with anyone. With 1.2 The only thing that has changed is that you die to these same classes even faster. So in that respect I can only say Bioware either didn't understand the base issue, or simply has no real interest in resolving the issue. In either case it is costing Bioware quality players every day in a very competitive market.

 

Even more to the point the few classes that could actually stand a fair shot at fighting back against those OP builds were "Rebalanced" making changes to them that were not needed in the first place.

 

Part of 1.2 was to balance OPS/Smuggler and BH/Trooper, and it worked very well. They are both still blowing players out of the water as fast as ever. Seeing a Tank get leveled in 6 seconds by a single Smuggler/OP with no ability to respond does not create "Balanced Play". When you have a class that can not only deal out massive sustained or burst damage, but also has heals (this use to include Sorcs, but after the changes to Wrath they were kind of castrated) you create a massive power slant.

 

Its great that you are trying to please as many players as you can, but simply put classes with high damage should suffer massive penalties to their ability to heal. By this I do not mean a .6 second slower cast time I mean actually suffer a reduction in effect.

 

How ever I have seen the same thing that's happening in SWTOR as I have seen in several other games and know that it will simply never really be balanced in any way that creates a true level playing field..

 

This goes beyond just PVP.. Look at several Republic classes VS their opposite.

 

Sentinel and Marauder.. Their abilities are clones, but what is different is a Marauder gets their healing companion before they reach 18 and Sentinels don't get theirs till after 30... this makes leveling on the Empire side easier and again discourages players. A simple way to fix this would be to say... Hey This class cannot heal in combat lets give Both their healing companion at about level 15-16..

 

Or Merc... Your first companion is a healer... And this is a class that can heal.

 

At some point Bioware it would be really nice if you guys got everyone in the same room and setup a spread sheet that shows how strong each class is and then say think "Woa... Some of these classes are really out of control...." and "Dang I guess that the order different classes receive their companions might need to be adjusted...."

 

The next thing that would be nice to see is you actually fixing it.

Biggest problem with world pvp right now is the rewards. The only reward is gear with the way you have things set up. So now you get the issue you have now. You have to come out with a new patch with new gear to give everyone something to do now because the game was getting boring...I don't think grinding for gear is fun. Make the reards fcor pvp better please..be creative.

 

I was thinking that a good pvpve balance is the right way for open world pvp. There needs to be bases to raid with npcs that drop good loot. Weapons gear etc. Then make the rewards at the end of the raid some good crafting material or schematic used to make even better gear.

 

A way that this can all be solved is to make planets where players can build cities. Player housing is really important I think. With player housing you can track down players and guilds you want to fight.

 

Another cool thing that could be added is true player bounties

 

And I don't think there should be classes stuck in each faction. I think you should b able to choose a class and then choose a faction. Just because you are a bounty hunter or smuggler doesn't mean you wouldn't work for both sides if the money was right...ne ways that would help a lot of the issues with open world pvp

Biggest problem with world pvp right now is the rewards. The only reward is gear with the way you have things set up.

 

Absolutely. The absolute worst move in MMO history was to reward PvP. All it has spawned is a new breed of QQing PvPer that just wants "stuff" instead of PvPing for the sole reward of PvPing!

 

Another cool thing that could be added is true player bounties

 

With no rewards aside from the bounty itself. Cold hard credits, and the kill. That's it. That would truly warm this aged heart of mine.

Edited April 21, 2012 by JeramieCrowe

With no rewards aside from the bounty itself. Cold hard credits, and the kill. That's it. That would truly warm this aged heart of mine.

 

That would be pretty awesome... put up a bounty of killing X player Y time(s) and the game tracks who did what then disburses the currency you had put in up-front, after it's done. Nice way to get back at someone who ganked your lowbie while questing , and a fun little addition period.

 

WTB "rvr"-style zones in the vein of DAOC as well.

PvPvE balanced

Pvp pvp pvp pvp Edited April 21, 2012 by Dirtmagurtt

http://www.swtor.com/community/showthread.php?t=234156

This thread has a lot of good ideas for open world pvp

I would like to see:

 

Based on the guilds being able to have capitol ships, it would be awesome if two guilds: Imp one V. Rep one could have a space battle with their ships (to get more space combat in the game) and then after X time boarding parties are sent to each capitol ship allowing for "instanced" PvP but with a GvG (guild verse guild) feel.

 

I think that this would control for server imbalance, it would promote better community, allow for true rivalries, fits the lore perfectly and best of all be truly unique in the mainstream MMO market.

Missed this but RAW.

I missed this but check my signature for a complete and full featured suggestion that's been in the forums since the beginning and had a ton of support. It addresses multiple facets of pvp and how the game world can be used. Even if you only take a look for some ideas to blend with what you have planned I believe it would be worth your time for a peek.

 

A discussion of Objective based world pvp..

Edited April 22, 2012 by Aethyrprime

Guild v guild with world rankings and cross server to make the faction imbalances not as bad

King of the mountain type play - with everyone your enemy except those in immediate party/ops (including guild mates)

Give us some attract to go on Tatooine, a bounty system and it shall be just great.

 

Did see this post too late but i'm for guild based pvp.

i wouldnt mind something like WOW's wintersgrasp with out the tanks, perhaps a combo of wintersgrasp fortress and novare coast guns to destroy the walls to take the fortress, have it que every 2 hours.

i wouldnt mind something like WOW's wintersgrasp with out the tanks, perhaps a combo of wintersgrasp fortress and novare coast guns to destroy the walls to take the fortress, have it que every 2 hours.

 

If it isn't open for action 24 hours, it doesn't have a Open world feel to it.

An area that is always open for combat, has a reason to be there other than PVP and rewards that can't be found anywhere else.

Giving out weekly temporary titles would be cool, having them reflect on what you did. Something like "(Name, Savior of X" for healing or "Guerrilla leader" for the person with the most solo kills. (could also add ranks within these achievements)

The titles given for things involving actually fighting, rather than just a kill trade. Maybe even a few titles for non-pvp things, like "Supplier" for gathering so many nodes.

The game PVP/PVE needs MEDIC heals to be fluid. Remove Stationary req. to heals.

 

We need more places to that flag you up to PVP status.

 

We need more missions and rewards, to encourage people to try pvp.

 

If its not already possible, ops groups, pvp, would be awesome.

 

Allow player selection of PVP zones, rather than an auto-queing system. Sometimes, all i ever get is huttball.

 

Add another PVP Planet, or convert one of the current planets. Auto flagging, and ten minute safe timer, thus if afk, attackable,even at load in base. Make sure that a warning message is given to player, about to shuttle, or ship into, the planet, that they will be flagged to pvp status, within ten minutes of landing.

 

Have voice Messages at each Faction's fleets, the status of the PVP, who is winning, what planets, have PVP flagged players.

 

Rewards to guilds, that have more PVP gains,based on players. No CD on Fleets passes for guild members, reduced cost on repairs/stims/and gear, ect.

 

System Messages, when a faction, takes entire planets - pvp wise

 

No negative penalties for losing factions, but have positive benefits for winning factions, like reduced costs on stims,medpacks, and gear. Winning state of a planet, not reversable for 24 hours, so as to allow everyone on the winning faction to have a chance to benefit, if they so chose. Make it, that they must be Flagged up, for 30 minutes, to get reduced costs.

 

Killing of enemy faction NPCs and players have seperate benefits, with seperate rewards. Npc killers maybe get 1/4 reduced costs, and pvpers get 50 percent off items.

 

just some ideas

I just watched GW2's WvW/open-world pvp................................................ um... what you got devs? 'Cause I highly doubt it will be even nearly as impressive. I never thought I'd say that, but yeah... You gave us a big static ice shelf, and said "have big battles here, because.... uh, it's a battle!" Then you put cosmetic walkers for us to shoot a missile at. Deep, man. Here's how I see it: if the same "visionary" minds that put Ilum pvp together are going to fix it, then I would wager that we will NOT sit in awe when it's released. And I'm not usually a betting man. Sorry, but I seriously doubt that you guys will release a "New Ilum" that will renew your customers faith in your "vision" for pvp.

 

WHERE'S THE WALKERS THAT WE CAN PILOT? WHERE'S THE ICONIC BATTLE SCENES WHERE AT-AT'S AND TIE FIGHTERS CLASHED WITH REBEL FORCES ON LAND, SEA, AIR, AND IN OUTER SPACE? HAVE YOU EVER PLAYED BATTLEFRONT? OR SEEN RETURN OF THE JEDI? WHERE'S YOUR VISION?

 

I tell you what, I'll give you a chance to impress. Show me pvp where the battle outside the planets atmosphere effects the battle on the ground, where the fighter pilots and bombers can give the advantage to the troops on the ground by taking out enemy cruisers, or boarding enemy flagships; where the troops on the ground take over particle cannons or w/e that target said cruisers and destroy shield generators with their walkers heavy cannons or artillery, or invade bunkers on foot. Show me pvp where guild flagships can engage/board rival guild ships, and solidify rivalries through player driven conflict. Show me events with limited resources in open pvp areas, where both pvp and control over said resources benefit the controlling faction. Balance/merge servers and implement cross-server-fricken-queuing. Do any of these things and I will be impressed. Have VISION, and the guts to demand excellence in pvp.

 

Or you can fail, continue to disappoint your remaining customers, lack vision or be to afraid to implement it. The choice is yours. Good or bad, we will make OUR choice painfully clear. We are entitled to everything we pay for, and are entitled to have an opinion and a preference on how we spend our free time and money. That much, is not generational, btw. God speed.

 

EDIT: and for the cynics, yes you can have mmo pvp with real objectives and walkers etc. It's not impossible. It can be balanced.

Edited April 24, 2012 by Sybaris

the biggest point while considering open world pvp is: UPGRADE YOUR SERVERS... reason being the server have to be able to provide a reasonible pvp experiance while opperating under a heavy load situation...also don't not have WORLD INSTANCES.... if you still hav this option in your new open world pvp....then it will fail...you got to keep the sides all in one zone & keep them fighting...

 

: ILUM gets hit by a huge asteroid... shattering it into a million piece's.... then making a huge asteriod field..where wait for it...... space combat is held...fighting over mining base's at either end of the feild...with a missing part..... type to make you base function (capture the flag type game) rewards could be an extra valour pip to the side who owns the missing part.

Because i only play PvP in this gamei have to suggest the following!

1) Open world PvP. Leave the factions as it is as its ruining the history of it although the dark side can supposingly be in any of us ( u can create some treasonry behind this to create some difference)

 

2) Warzones Warzones Warzones.

- Cross server warzones. We want to be able to play instantly since most of us are working and have little time. Make wzs more intresting.

-Put more ppl into warzones. Put certain places for different types of players like 2 places for healers one tank etc etc etc.

-Put enchant weapons with type +expertise scrols to fit in the wepons. Something must differentiate all the ppl cant have the same weapon.

-Fix rewards from warzones, daily and weakly almost have the same rewards.

-Let us trade the PvP material. Make a viable market place.

 

3)Put different types of PvP armors and weapons and try to connect the PvP and PvE worlds together. Put PvP item drops into Raid bosses so to give the PvP players some reason to go do bosses and travel the world.

 

4) Illum is not enough since its an empty planet all the time. Make events like sieges in illum that give PvP and other rewards. People are w8ing for this.

 

5) Mass PvP events in the world. Open field PvP like the old days. Plain and simple. 40 vs 40. Guild vs guild. Fixed time and date and let us play the epic moment of it. No other game has that but i always dreamed of it. It can be great!

 

6) Concentrate on PvP specialy in the PvP servers. Our server is always empty!

 

Thnks for ur understandning. I love SWTOR. I think it has potential. Dont let us PvP players down! We need something to hang on to to keep playing with joy!

Let open-world pvp affect a 'factional score-card' that lets you track which side is winning the war.

 

Similar to GCW in SWG.

PvPvE would work best. It gives incentives for both sides to join regardless of which faction has more people. At first the faction cap option seems best, but you will have alot of Empire players not joining in on the world pvp which kinda defeats the purpose of world pvp since it is a come and go as you please and gank freely kind of feel. Thats what draws people to world pvp. I think one of the best ways is to have a zone where you can complete daily quests that actually give decent rewards. Idk maybe 30 warzone comms for each completed quest. This also would help for fresh 50s to gear up before joining warzones. And have the quests for each faction be connected and in some way to have your progress matter, such as you cant come into a certain area until you have completed this quest for the day to kind of split up the massive groups to give more squad based pvp. Just thinkin out loud, take as you will. Sorry for run on sentances and poor structure. Edited April 25, 2012 by Swiftviper