I don't think players hitting kolto's is the problem so much as how soon some of them will run to the kolto's.

When I'm on a lowbie I'll head for the kolto's at about half health, but on max players I try to avoid kolto's completely. Most fights you're fine just managing your dcd's properly. It's better practice for master mode, since you learn what your defensive abilties can handle.

It's the max players who panic when they get a scratch that are annoying. They're the one's who will then go into master mode, use zero dcds, probably jump right to the elites in mobs, then call the healers trash when they die. (hint: the healer isn't healing you because all those normal enemies you're ignoring are attacking THE HEALER. You can't heal the fank (I"m looking at you Hammer, and the huge number of fake tanks who can't hold aggro at all), yourself, and 2 idiotic dps at the same time.)

//

It's the max players who panic when they get a scratch that are annoying. They're the one's who will then go into master mode, use zero dcds, probably jump right to the elites in mobs, then call the healers trash when they die. (hint: the healer isn't healing you because all those normal enemies you're ignoring are attacking THE HEALER. You can't heal the fank (I"m looking at you Hammer, and the huge number of fake tanks who can't hold aggro at all), yourself, and 2 idiotic dps at the same time.)

That makes me think, its the same for all classes actually. Thing is, vet fps are so easy than all the tanks that dont taunt, dpses that charge ahead with little consequence, healers that don't know about their cleanses and get "carried" by koltos , they can still get by and faceroll the fps and it can still be ok, and even have fun doing it.

Though it doesn't make players conscious of their roles, and it shows in harder content, mm fps and ops.

Gearing these days encourage people to do master mode flashpoints, which is great in a way, but in another, everybody and their uncle now want to do masters for gear.

As much as we defend the healers, I have to admit ive seen more than one healer fail to cleanse the tank in the droid boss of mm hs these days, which resulted in the tank's death. And if by addition the tank is also a fank well ... you are screwed lol

As much as we defend the healers, I have to admit ive seen more than one healer fail to cleanse the tank in the droid boss of mm hs these days, which resulted in the tank's death. And if by addition the tank is also a fank well ... you are screwed lol

MM HS has become a big meme: you have the LOS obsessed tanks who will pull everything around a corner when in reality there's just a couple of groups where it makes sense and insist on pulling the big droid in the tunnel because apparently stepping out of a red circle is hard.

Then you have the healers who don't know what a cleanse is and the tanks that have no clue about their defensives and when they match up hilarity ensues (neither type asks for directions of course, they barely acknowledge when someone explains what to do *after* the wipe).

Or the tanks whose idea of keeping aggro is hitting the gold guy and ignore everything else (this is a classic).

And of course the dps who can't kill anything in a remotely timely fashion.

They all spam HS apparently because when it's a different FP the groups are generally good - I had a couple of excellent Meridians for instance - or someone will leave immediately. Force forbid they play something new.

Got a MM Esseles last night that almost made me quit the game in disgust.

Loaded in as normal (a bit of a slow load, but I wasn't even the last one to arrive) and tried to be sociable while we waited for our 4th to join us at the first conversation. No response.

Unsurprisingly, there was a call to "Skip please" and "Spacebar!" when we were in the conversation, which I was, and I said as much. One of the others kept the impatient two waiting longer than I was.

First battle against the two mobs went fine, and all of a sudden they voted to kick me before the first elevator. No reason given. No explanation in chat. Just "Nah, we don't want this level 75 Jedi Sentinel and we won't tell her why".

Only thing I can think of (I didn't check their gear to compare) is maybe they decided that my 260 rating was too low, which is horsepoopy. I've done MM Rakata in weaker gear since 6.0 started and that's a lot nastier than Esseles.

Whatever their problem was, well, it's their problem, not mine.

In all seriousness, I do feel like the game is getting more and more toxic. I think it may be time for another break.

I can't see whether a healer is good or not, so at a certain point when the health bar of a party member is *very* low, I do go to a Kolto station.

I've seen deaths due to too late healing, so I'm never sure if the healer is good or not. How can I tell this ß After letting a player's character die a few times, cynically put ?

And of course the dps who can't kill anything in a remotely timely fashion.

Then look at the DPS's level. According to my own exsperience, this is mostly due to the Group Finder even putting VERY low lechel chars into the group ... chars about which players here often complain "other than ... he never did anything substancial". Especiall at low levels, several abilities are missing, most people tend to forget that after playing level 70 for years.

Then look at the DPS's level. According to my own exsperience, this is mostly due to the Group Finder even putting VERY low lechel chars into the group ... chars about which players here often complain "other than ... he never did anything substancial". Especiall at low levels, several abilities are missing, most people tend to forget that after playing level 70 for years.

I was speaking of Master Mode Hammer Station that unfortunately pops way too often lately - likely because many players prefer to spam that and a few others instead of queuing random despite the extra rewards - where I haven't seen anyone below 75 since the expansion (and you can't queue for MM until you're at least 50 anyway).

I can't see whether a healer is good or not, so at a certain point when the health bar of a party member is *very* low, I do go to a Kolto station.

 

I've seen deaths due to too late healing, so I'm never sure if the healer is good or not. How can I tell this ß After letting a player's character die a few times, cynically put ?

 

 

 

Then look at the DPS's level. According to my own exsperience, this is mostly due to the Group Finder even putting VERY low lechel chars into the group ... chars about which players here often complain "other than ... he never did anything substancial". Especiall at low levels, several abilities are missing, most people tend to forget that after playing level 70 for years.

Some deaths are because people did something really dumb. I am not one of the medics who let even bad players die if I can prevent it. But then I am healing against a scripted fight were people didn't respond properly to it and they might take more damage than the healer can counter. A LOT of people are so used to faceroll Flashpoints in the past that they are forgetting that a healer is supposed to heal the unavoidable damage, not the preventable. I am healing me a CTS nowadays and it's not especially fullfilling.

MM HS has become a big meme: you have the LOS obsessed tanks who will pull everything around a corner when in reality there's just a couple of groups where it makes sense and insist on pulling the big droid in the tunnel because apparently stepping out of a red circle is hard.

THIS! So much THIS! If I had a penny for each HS run...VT or MM where the Tank insists on pulling every single group of mobs around the corner, I'd be rich. I mean I promise you that those 6 weak droids won't wipe out our entire group and neither will those 3 strong advozsec.

THIS! So much THIS! If I had a penny for each HS run...VT or MM where the Tank insists on pulling every single group of mobs around the corner, I'd be rich. I mean I promise you that those 6 weak droids won't wipe out our entire group and neither will those 3 strong advozsec.

Most times it's not a matter of survival, but convenience. A lot of those mobs in Hammer are spread out too far for most aoe to hit more than a couple of them at a time.

Part of a tank's job is to gather mobs for aoe. It's usually faster to kill them that way, and also easier for the tank to hold aggro on them.

Although that's usually pointless with all the knockback happy dps that run around nowadays.

Most times it's not a matter of survival, but convenience.

This.

But it’s the true genius Shadow/Sin tanks that LoS, get them all in a nice tight bunch for AoE . . . and then knock them all out of it again.

MM HS has become a big meme: you have the LOS obsessed tanks who will pull everything around a corner when in reality there's just a couple of groups where it makes sense and insist on pulling the big droid in the tunnel because apparently stepping out of a red circle is hard.

 

Then you have the healers who don't know what a cleanse is and the tanks that have no clue about their defensives and when they match up hilarity ensues (neither type asks for directions of course, they barely acknowledge when someone explains what to do *after* the wipe).

 

Or the tanks whose idea of keeping aggro is hitting the gold guy and ignore everything else (this is a classic).

 

And of course the dps who can't kill anything in a remotely timely fashion.

 

They all spam HS apparently because when it's a different FP the groups are generally good - I had a couple of excellent Meridians for instance - or someone will leave immediately. Force forbid they play something new.

This is a delightful post.

I only really have one thing to add: normally, MM HS is an exercise in frustration, but it was actually easier than normal last week. Flashpoint Havoc had a lot of idiots queuing for the bonus boss MMs. I have never played so many Esseles and BT runs in a single week, and every single one of them was led by a tank with molasses in their veins and included at least one melee character that didn't know the mechanics (i.e. got fried repeatedly by Vokk's lightning or stayed in Yadira Ban's cyclone or wallowed in the warm glow of Commander Ghulil's plasma probes).

Compared to the slow-dragging MM BT and MM Esseles runs, derpy Hammer Station was a breath of fresh air when it popped.

Most times it's not a matter of survival, but convenience. A lot of those mobs in Hammer are spread out too far for most aoe to hit more than a couple of them at a time.

 

Part of a tank's job is to gather mobs for aoe. It's usually faster to kill them that way, and also easier for the tank to hold aggro on them.

I agree to an extent, but some groups are so easy to kill that grouping them up still wastes time even with AoE. The droids next to the scavenging shortcut are a good example. Other groups are ALREADY GROUPED close enough for AoE and get LoSed anyway.

This is a delightful post.

thank you

I agree to an extent, but some groups are so easy to kill that grouping them up still wastes time even with AoE. The droids next to the scavenging shortcut are a good example. Other groups are ALREADY GROUPED close enough for AoE and get LoSed anyway.

precisely.

Most times it's not a matter of survival, but convenience. A lot of those mobs in Hammer are spread out too far for most aoe to hit more than a couple of them at a time.

 

Part of a tank's job is to gather mobs for aoe. It's usually faster to kill them that way, and also easier for the tank to hold aggro on them.

 

Although that's usually pointless with all the knockback happy dps that run around nowadays.

While I agree this can be useful in certain cases..more times than not it's simply pointless...most trash groups in HS are all grouped up and can be easily killed with AOE as it is...there is simply no real need for this mechanic most of the time.

THIS! So much THIS! If I had a penny for each HS run...VT or MM where the Tank insists on pulling every single group of mobs around the corner, I'd be rich. I mean I promise you that those 6 weak droids won't wipe out our entire group and neither will those 3 strong advozsec.

I play characters that when running Flashpoints are built for strong AOEf, not to pick them off mobs one by one - and many packs even in HS are spread too far apart, which are generally the ones pulled around a corner.

Pull the bigger packs into a small group and I can kill them all in a couple of GCDs.

I agree that worrying about LOSing stuff like the weak-ish droids right before the scavenging skip drill is silly though.

But I've had it with idiots that run out or stand out just far enough on big pulls that instead of being able to hit all the mobs, I end up wasting cool downs and only kill half the trash, then have to kill of the rest of the ranged one by one as they are spread all over the place.

This.

But it’s the true genius Shadow/Sin tanks that LoS, get them all in a nice tight bunch for AoE . . . and then knock them all out of it again.

Overload for the win - and yeah, that annoys me to no end as well lol.

MM HS has become a big meme: you have the LOS obsessed tanks who will pull everything around a corner when in reality there's just a couple of groups where it makes sense and insist on pulling the big droid in the tunnel because apparently stepping out of a red circle is hard.

I was stupid enough to queue random MM today solo. Of course it was a HS. I should have left when they insisted pulling the first boss to the tunnel, because anyone doing that must be clueless on the rest of the FP as well. And they were. They wanted to kill next boss (the trio) also "behind a corner", which isn't really a great idea as nobody can see anything without clicking through all targets. I ask why they want to do it there. Answer: "Because they die faster"... Erm... no they don't! Two are shielded, so they don't take damage at all, but that flamethrower boss is doing damage on whoever is in front of him all the time (unless interrupted, but let's not even try to go there...) Of course people who are this clueless, are ALL standing in front of it...Flamethrower needs to die first, and it's the first one without shield anyhow. Then pick whoever is not shielded, swap target if needed until they die. Trying to AOE them down, especially if people are not hitting the flamethrower dude first will take a lot longer than doing the mechanics properly. And as a cherry on top of that crapcake, when you mention they are doing it wrong, the name calling starts. They must be on top of their lil world when they get to call someone names, feeling all mighty and powerful.

They all spam HS apparently because when it's a different FP the groups are generally good - I had a couple of excellent Meridians for instance - or someone will leave immediately. Force forbid they play something new.

I've come to this conclusion myself: only the bads queue HS. I think it was only my 5th or 6th pug run since 6.0 because I can't stomach more HS and it's usually HS if I have to pug. It's even worse when you get the clueless, toxic people doing things the hard way.

Account/legacy ignore is sorely needed, so the bads and the jerks can spam HS 24/7 without ruining the game from everyone else. Or get rid of the deserter lockout, because now it's only beneficial to the people who can't play anything else but HS. When enough people get sick of HS; the GF will be as dead as GF ops is now. I'm pretty sure even they don't want that.

So yesterday I rant into quite a hilarious situation in Traitor Among the Chiss on Master Mode, I won't mention which server or the people who were involved but I was tanking, with a ranged DPS, a melee DPS and a Healer. We all phased in and everyone stayed put until I stealthed the first boss, first boss was a bit of a pain.

The melee DPS kept attacking the other Tank droids and nobody was focus-targeting just one, it was all over the place. We still managed to get through it at the end but it made me question whether or not people knew the mechanics. Roll in Syndic Zenta and the entire thing starts to fall apart, I pull normally thinking they might realize the mechanics... until Syndic goes up and the healer alongside the melee DPS stay down and just the ranged DPS follow me. Needless to say I eventually die as the Healer isn't doing their job because they're too busy not going up.

After we die I ask what the hell was up with that and the Healer says they haven't done this Flashpoint yet and had only been playing for 3 days, I say "Why the hell didn't you said you were new then so we could explain the mechanics", cue said healer downplaying the whole thing by sarcastically typing "Master Mode", "Hard Mode" after I explain this Flashpoint is actually hard so you need to know the mechanics for it. The melee DPS also says he hasn't done it, I then proceed to explain the mechanics of the fight and the healer leaves. We get another healer pretty quickly and I quickly give her a refresher about the fight, she did pretty well despite our next pull having us die because our melee DPS didn't followed the mechanics as he hadn't found where the boss is after she drops down again. Cue the ranged DPS leaving and we getting another DPS and me explaining the mechanics again, we die again because the melee DPS didn't got up before Syndic electrifies the area... cue the healer leaving and me afterwards.

TLDR: Unexperienced players join one of the hardest Flashpoints and don't let anybody know that they're actually new, one of them is actually open to learning the mechanics even if they didn't followed it properly while the other just left as soon as I started to explain it.

So...Flashpoint: Hammer Station, [TACTICAL] mode, yet again (I mean really, what else would it be anymore for a non-stealther in BioWare's utterly genius implementation of the current meta? <-- That was sarcasm, just in case it wasn't clear enough)...

The seemingly ubiquitous baddy-Sorc running around chain-pulling, including mobs that you can run right by without engaging in even the [HARD] version of HS, and then just sitting there spamming Force Storm whilst his all-DPS group slowly gets battered down around him, until the ad-hoc tank!Merc's (IE, my) DCDs are all blown, and then his God-Barrier goes, and then everyone else's DCDs are tblown, and then we all eat floor and get a nice six-figure repair bill --because of yet another genius-level implementation of completely *********** ridiculous credit-sinks, way, way, way too long after such would have actually helped anything...

I honestly can't put my finger on it, but...There's something about this kind of bad in particular that, for-real, just rages me right the f out IRL. To the the point that I very nearly rage-quit a run because of one such, something I'd normally almost never do.

Your archetypical Marau-duuuurrrr?

No worries, as long as the rest of the group is geared and even halfway-competent.

Egregiously mishandled Mercs/Mandos, and/or Snipingers?

Well, those make me in particular haz a sad, as I've mained those since pre-launch, but I can step up and deal in any group that's short of completely hopeless.

Smash-tard Juggs, try-way-too-hard Vangs/PTechs, stealthers who seem to think that the rest of the group is just their spear-carriers, Tanks being socially-retarded turds because they know they can get away with it...

I can, have, and almost certainly will continue to deal with those, no problem. (Well, relatively speaking.)

But try-hard baddy Sorcs being bad:

There's something about those in particular that I just absolutely cannot freaking handle --seriously/IRL, **** THOSE PEOPLE.

Again, I don't even know what it really is about them specifically, it simply is --So am I the only one?

Does anyone else have a nuclear rage-button that gets pushed when they see a particular class/spec being Lololol-durr-durr-derpity-derp'ed about, clearly without any intelligence at the controls, or is it really just me?

What say you, community?

So...Flashpoint: Hammer Station, [TACTICAL] mode, yet again (I mean really, what else would it be anymore for a non-stealther in BioWare's utterly genius implementation of the current meta? <-- That was sarcasm, just in case it wasn't clear enough)...

 

The seemingly ubiquitous baddy-Sorc running around chain-pulling, including mobs that you can run right by without engaging in even the [HARD] version of HS, and then just sitting there spamming Force Storm whilst his all-DPS group slowly gets battered down around him, until the ad-hoc tank!Merc's (IE, my) DCDs are all blown, and then his God-Barrier goes, and then everyone else's DCDs are tblown, and then we all eat floor and get a nice six-figure repair bill --because of yet another genius-level implementation of completely *********** ridiculous credit-sinks, way, way, way too long after such would have actually helped anything...

 

I honestly can't put my finger on it, but...There's something about this kind of bad in particular that, for-real, just rages me right the f out IRL. To the the point that I very nearly rage-quit a run because of one such, something I'd normally almost never do.

 

Your archetypical Marau-duuuurrrr?

 

No worries, as long as the rest of the group is geared and even halfway-competent.

 

Egregiously mishandled Mercs/Mandos, and/or Snipingers?

 

Well, those make me in particular haz a sad, as I've mained those since pre-launch, but I can step up and deal in any group that's short of completely hopeless.

 

Smash-tard Juggs, try-way-too-hard Vangs/PTechs, stealthers who seem to think that the rest of the group is just their spear-carriers, Tanks being socially-retarded turds because they know they can get away with it...

 

I can, have, and almost certainly will continue to deal with those, no problem. (Well, relatively speaking.)

 

But try-hard baddy Sorcs being bad:

 

There's something about those in particular that I just absolutely cannot freaking handle --seriously/IRL, **** THOSE PEOPLE.

 

Again, I don't even know what it really is about them specifically, it simply is --So am I the only one?

 

Does anyone else have a nuclear rage-button that gets pushed when they see a particular class/spec being Lololol-durr-durr-derpity-derp'ed about, clearly without any intelligence at the controls, or is it really just me?

 

What say you, community?

Of course but for me it’s just a group of bads in general. You know the ones that die in VM FP then come on the forums and complain about it. Like seriously it’s lol-rage worthy.

Does anyone else have a nuclear rage-button that gets pushed when they see a particular class/spec being Lololol-durr-durr-derpity-derp'ed about, clearly without any intelligence at the controls, or is it really just me?

I can't say I really ever particularly notice someone's class or spec. I just go with the flow. I'm aware that a Veteran FP is just a PUG and that lots of derpy things can happen.

But as a side note, usually, if there's some guy who runs ahead and attacks things, particularly if they don't give people time to heal up, I just take my time catching up to them. If they die …. Oh well. 🙄

I can't say I really ever particularly notice someone's class or spec. I just go with the flow. I'm aware that a Veteran FP is just a PUG and that lots of derpy things can happen.

But as a side note, usually, if there's some guy who runs ahead and attacks things, particularly if they don't give people time to heal up, I just take my time catching up to them. If they die …. Oh well. 🙄

Jumpy-leapy kind that doesnt give the time to the people behind to catch up / heal up / get energy back (and that now have to run super slow because -in combat-) , bonus points if they are squishy dpses (not using dcds) that almost die because the healer was still way out of range . Lol .

Jumpy-leapy kind that doesnt give the time to the people behind to catch up / heal up / get energy back (and that now have to run super slow because -in combat-) , bonus points if they are squishy dpses (not using dcds) that almost die because the healer was still way out of range . Lol .

It's even better when they do that before previous mobs are even half dead.

It's even better when they do that before previous mobs are even half dead.

That would be a little less infuriating if this game didn't have that stupid "Enter combat, waddle along at like half your normal speed" BS.

Why is this even a thing anymore in 2019? I always hated it in games that have it, and it seems many, if not most WoW-clones do. (Um, guys? 2005 called --It wants its archaic and useless mechanics back.)

Most of Blood Hunt MM's mechanics are designed to screw over melee DPS. However, a good tank can make the experience downright joyful all the same. I have enjoyed many BH MM clears on Guardian/Juggernaut with a competent tank that can make it easy for me to avoid the mechanics.

That is not the experience that I had on my most recent run, in which the tank repeatedly dragged Valk's Sweeping Blasters and Torch's Flamethrower into me - despite frantic evasive maneuvers on my end - and repeatedly got me killed. (That was when the tank wasn't just straight-up losing aggro to me so I could take the full brunt of the bosses' hits.) Then I got to watch the tank and healer merrily and slowly chip away at the bosses' health while the remaining DPS, an rDPS, derped around with basic attack. And, because the fights are pretty easy for everybody other than mdps, they still cleared.

The worst part, to me, wasn't the credits thrown at the repair bill or the time spent waiting, but the fact that they probably think that I'm an incompetent feeb for all the dying.

Most of Blood Hunt MM's mechanics are designed to screw over melee DPS. However, a good tank can make the experience downright joyful all the same. I have enjoyed many BH MM clears on Guardian/Juggernaut with a competent tank that can make it easy for me to avoid the mechanics.

 

That is not the experience that I had on my most recent run, in which the tank repeatedly dragged Valk's Sweeping Blasters and Torch's Flamethrower into me - despite frantic evasive maneuvers on my end - and repeatedly got me killed. (That was when the tank wasn't just straight-up losing aggro to me so I could take the full brunt of the bosses' hits.) Then I got to watch the tank and healer merrily and slowly chip away at the bosses' health while the remaining DPS, an rDPS, derped around with basic attack. And, because the fights are pretty easy for everybody other than mdps, they still cleared.

 

The worst part, to me, wasn't the credits thrown at the repair bill or the time spent waiting, but the fact that they probably think that I'm an incompetent feeb for all the dying.

Yes I can relate to this, as someone who mains a Tank anytime I get a bad Tank while I'm queued as DPS makes me internally scream.

Yes I can relate to this, as someone who mains a Tank anytime I get a bad Tank while I'm queued as DPS makes me internally scream.

I don't even know that I'd say that the tank was bad. Most of what they did would've been fine with a team of rdps, or on most other flashpoints. But they were clearly inexperienced with BH MM in a way that frequently got me killed.

I suppose the healer didn't necessarily help either; for example, on Torch during the lava phase, I would frequently find myself low enough on hp and dcds to make the always-heartbreaking decision to reduce uptime so the healer had a chance to get me back up. And then I'd sit there, several platforms away from Torch, for several gcds waiting fruitlessly for a heal until Torch's raid-wide missile attack chipped away the last of my health. I might not even blame the healer too much for that, though, because by that point I'd died several times, and why burn heals on somebody that was just going to get killed again anyway?