never will I agree that your computer companion will get more out of gear than a real person. video game ethics people....

And by this we have concluded through 7 years of raiding in wow that there are none.

What there IS though, is you & master loot. And guildies/friends.

if you run pugs you are on your own.

Companions NEED to be geared, especially for higher levels. I will continue to roll need on gear for companions.

Tool much?

are you saying your companion comes before an active player. If so i stand by statement.

This is also why server blacklist exist...people get known for doing this and no one will run with them anymore. So to the people that do this, the m,ore you do it, the faster you'll be blacklisted....so you might get a ton cool loot from black talon, but you will never ever be invited to an eternity vault, because your name is known.

Remember there is no lfg tool in this game like wow.....you have a rep, get a bad one on your server and your screwed.

While it is bad manners, and I do not encourage it.

 

People are selecting need because they do need it ... but they need it for their companion.

 

Until we get a companion need option between need and greed, people are free to selected need for companion gear, because you cannot viably solo without a properly geared companion (unless you are overleveled).

Need - Need (Companion) - Greed

GREAT idea bud.

Need > Need (Companion) > Greed

Somehow it sounds too ideal. Too simple of a solution, or is it just perfect?

With the Need (Companion) option available... it would be possible to grey out the actual need button if the player's main character cannot use the item. This means that people who can use the item can roll Need but the person who just wants to ninja for their companion has to roll Need (Companion,) thereby giving priority to those who need the item... (this is assuming that the person who rolls Need (Companion,) can't use the item.)

On the other hand, I don't see how it would be fair to grey out the Need option, without inserting this Need (Companion,) option, since then it makes it impossible for certain players to roll Need on items for certain companions.

Problem with need(companion) button is that you don't know if that person REALLY needs that item for companion. So, soon, the need(companion) button could become greed button.

They should just grey the need button for classes that can't use the item.

Problem with need(companion) button is that you don't know if that person REALLY needs that item for companion. So, soon, the need(companion) button could become greed button.

 

They should just grey the need button for classes that can't use the item.

They helped down the boss, so why is it your business what they need the item for?

Loot bags needs to be an option for every grouping situation, all you greedy 'player first or blacklist' jerks are keeping the companion system from being fully realized.

Problem with need(companion) button is that you don't know if that person REALLY needs that item for companion. So, soon, the need(companion) button could become greed button.

 

They should just grey the need button for classes that can't use the item.

With that logic, then that means that since Need is greater than greed, then Need is the new Greed because anything greater than Greed is the new Greed?

The idea is to press the button that you need to press.

Also, you can't grey out the Need button because then people have no option to opt for priority on their roll for their companion, instead they would have to compete with normal Need rolls, which are, in this case, people who need the item for their main characters, or be forced to greed with everyone else and be competing with people who don't need the item any dang way.

The entire notion of, "greying out the need button," comes from World of Warcraft. In WoW the player had control of one character who could hold items, their main character. The idea of "greying out the need button," in WoW, works because there is never a time when the player would actually Need an item that their main character couldn't use. However, in SWTOR, the player has access to other characters who can use items which might not be available to their main character. Therefore, "greying out the need button," is not a satisfactory option in SWTOR because it prevents a player from rolling on items that they do Need, just not for their main character.

This is a different situation, slightly, which requires a different, slightly, solution.

I think that adding the Need (Companion,) option, at least gives honest players an honest way to indicate that their main character doesn't need the item, but their companion does.

With that logic, then that means that since Need is greater than greed, then Need is the new Greed because anything greater than Greed is the new Greed?

 

The idea is to press the button that you need to press.

 

Also, you can't grey out the Need button because then people have no option to opt for priority on their roll for their companion, instead they would have to compete with normal Need rolls, which are, in this case, people who need the item for their main characters, or be forced to greed with everyone else and be competing with people who don't need the item any dang way.

You can check if player needs that item by inspecting them, so they will be carefull when needing. You can't do that with companions if they are not used. So anyone can just need for companion. That was the point I was trying to make.

Isn't the real issue with need for companion that by the time you get up there in level, you can almost always use an item for a companion. Basically every class is represented by the companions. Companions should always be greed (because the reality is everyone can use almost any item for a companion).

Need for you; greed for everyone else. If you really really want something for a companion and you ask and no one objects, then you may need for a companion.

The issue is there will always be jerks who need everything. If we had server forums, we would be able to track these ninjas easier. But we don't

You can check if player needs that item by inspecting them, so they will be carefull when needing. You can't do that with companions if they are not used. So anyone can just need for companion. That was the point I was trying to make.

I fully understood the point that you made. However, if someone rolls Need (Companion,) on every item, then there could be additional loot rules agreed upon... I.E. 1 loot per boss or 1 loot per zone, etc. If the person is truly offensive by their rolling then they must be ejected from the group. Also, other players in the group could just go ahead and do the same, therefore basically All Greeding. Yet, there is something that you have overlooked that I will get into in just a bit...

This is not a suggestion to solve dishonesty, it is a suggestion to provide a way for honest players to indicate their intentions without intruding upon Need rolls.

I understand the problem is that people are rolling Need too often. One of the possible reasons is that they need the item for their companion, this is an honest reason. The Need (Companion,) option would provide a way for this honest loot reason to be apparent to everyone in the group.

One thing you've overlooked is that if someone wants to ninja on group looting, then they will roll Need always. Therefore, if an item drops that a ninja wants, there is literally no reason for that person to press Need (Companion,) over simply pressing Need.

The best reason to press this alternate greed option (Need [Companion]) is when you actually need an item for your companion, but don't want to screw over other people who need the item for their main character.

Isn't the real issue with need for companion that by the time you get up there in level, you can almost always use an item for a companion. Basically every class is represented by the companions. Companions should always be greed (because the reality is everyone can use almost any item for a companion).

 

Need for you; greed for everyone else. If you really really want something for a companion and you ask and no one objects, then you may need for a companion.

 

The issue is there will always be jerks who need everything. If we had server forums, we would be able to track these ninjas easier. But we don't

If the Need (Companion,) option were available, then people who need the item for their companion would roll Need (Companion,) then someone who actually needs it for their main just rolls Need. The person who needs it for their main gets the item because Need takes priority over Need (Companion.) Everyone else just greeded so they don't roll.

If you wanted an item for your companion, atm, you are forced to either Need, and possibly screw someone over, or Greed, and possibly see the item sold to a vendor by another player who didn't need it for anything but credits. With the Need (Companion,) option, honest players have a way to get items for their companions without intentionally screwing someone over.

Let's be real for a second, though. Players can always ASK their party before rolling... the Need (Companion,) idea brought up on the first page of this thread simply allows for the extra work to be bypassed. Instead of asking your party if anyone needs the item, you just press Need (Companion,) and let the rolling do the work.

If everyone else greeds, then your roll gets precedent. If someone rolls Need, it's probably because they need it for their main character. So instead of asking your group, you simply pressed a button and it worked out just the same and no one gets hurt.

This satisfies:

Player takes precedent over Companion

With the system right now, someone can get hurt by losing a drop to a companion roll.

Trolls/Ninjas will always roll Need if they want to screw someone over... that is a separate issue.

TBH I don't know why WoW doesn't have a Need (Off-Spec,) option for rolling. Sometimes players in WoW do lose rolls to people rolling Need on Off-Spec gear... perhaps if they had a similar option there would be less people hurt by the loot system.

Let's be real for a second, though. Players can always ASK their party before rolling... the Need (Companion,) idea brought up on the first page of this thread simply allows for the extra work to be bypassed. Instead of asking your party if anyone needs the item, you just press Need (Companion,) and let the rolling do the work.

 

If everyone else greeds, then your roll gets precedent. If someone rolls Need, it's probably because they need it for their main character. So instead of asking your group, you simply pressed a button and it worked out just the same and no one gets hurt.

 

With the system right now, someone can get hurt by losing a drop to a companion roll.

 

Trolls/Ninjas will always roll Need if they want to screw someone over... that is a separate issue.

Well, if Need button is disabled then ninjas won't be able to roll need out of their class. So, next button to press is Need(companion). Hello companion ninjas!

The difference is that you won't be able to tell who is ninja and who is not because you can't inspect their companions.

Anyway, I fully understand your point. I just want to point out that there are flaws in that mechanic. For honest group need(companion) is good thing.

Well, if Need button is disabled then ninjas won't be able to roll need out of their class. So, next button to press is Need(companion). Hello companion ninjas!

The difference is that you won't be able to tell who is ninja and who is not because you can't inspect their companions.

 

Anyway, I fully understand your point. I just want to point out that there are flaws in that mechanic. For honest group need(companion) is good thing.

If it's good for an honest group, then it's good for the game... I don't think that the game should be/is designed around circumventing dishonesty.

This idea provides an honest option for honest players who honestly need items for their companion and honestly don't want to screw people's main character rolls over.

Again, this is not to prevent ninja, but to alleviate some of the excessive Need rolling, and to also allow for the possible, "greying out of the need button."

Re: Companion Ninjas

Again, if the Need button is greyed out for a Ninja-Looter, then if that player presses the Need (Companion,) button, the chances are that this Ninja-Looter person is not going to get the loot because Need rolls take priority over the Need (Companion,) roll. The only way this hypothetical Ninja-Looter could get the loot, then, is if everyone rolls Need (Companion,) or lower and he/she/it won the roll.

This idea satisfies a few things:

Main characters take precedence over companions in looting.

Ninjas can't roll need on gear that they can't use.

Honest players can now indicate their rolling intentions more clearly to avoid confusion.

If it's good for an honest group, then it's good for the game... I don't think that the game should be/is designed around circumventing dishonesty.

 

This idea provides and honest option for honest players who honestly need items for their companion and honestly don't want to screw people's main character rolls over.

Ok then.

Companions NEED to be geared, especially for higher levels. I will continue to roll need on gear for companions.

Anyone i find rolling NEED for a companion when there is any player in my group that NEEDs the item for an upgrade, i will boot/blacklist on the spot, and see that as many people as i can blacklist as well.

I led raids and guilds in WoW for years, and this is the quickest way to cause disgruntled people.

That's like needing for an off-spec, or AH.

Players main role always is priority.

Anyone i find rolling NEED for a companion when there is any player in my group that NEEDs the item for an upgrade, i will boot/blacklist on the spot, and see that as many people as i can blacklist as well.

 

I led raids and guilds in WoW for years, and this is the quickest way to cause disgruntled people.

That's like needing for an off-spec, or AH.

 

Players main role always is priority.

Would you be opposed to having an option between Need and Greed called Need (Companion,) so that people can roll on items for their companions, but still give priority to normal Need rolls, in case main characters need items?

Would you be opposed to having an option between Need and Greed called Need (Companion,) so that people can roll on items for their companions, but still give priority to normal Need rolls, in case main characters need items?

This came up a lot in Beta. Simple answer is, this is a pointless option because it jusrt becomes the new greed. Almost every piece of equipment will eventually be usable by one of your companions, so obviously everyone will always need companion for it. Why would they do anything less?

Basically this is still a community ettiquet problem, not a development issue. We as a community need to define the rules for behavior and enforce them ourselves. If you want to need for your companion you ask and only if no one can use it, or the ones who could have used it greed for it. Otherwise you greed or pass at your discression. If you fail to live up to that expectation you don't get to be in the group.

This came up a lot in Beta. Simple answer is, this is a pointless option because it jusrt becomes the new greed. Almost every piece of equipment will eventually be usable by one of your companions, so obviously everyone will always need companion for it. Why would they do anything less?

 

Basically this is still a community ettiquet problem, not a development issue. We as a community need to define the rules for behavior and enforce them ourselves. If you want to need for your companion you ask and only if no one can use it, or the ones who could have used it greed for it. Otherwise you greed or pass at your discression. If you fail to live up to that expectation you don't get to be in the group.

Uhh, why would everyone need every item for their companion? That doesn't make sense. People will Need (Companion,) what they need and greed what they don't. It will not become the new greed unless you are rolling with a bunch of people who really don't care about anyone but them self.

With this option available, the Need option can be greyed out for people who cannot use an item on their main character, while the Need (Companion,) option remains open.

This means that someone who Needs the item for their main character can roll Need without someone interfering, trying to get an item for their companion. Anyone who needs the item for their companion will only get to roll if no one rolls Need.

I am having a very hard time seeing a problem here. Greed becomes what it is intended to be... Greed roll. Need becomes Need for main spec, and Need (Companion,) is available for items that are not for your main character.

I think I am specifically having a problem with this:

How is pressing Need (Companion,) different than asking your group if anyone needs that item, waiting for an answer, and then rolling need if no one needs it.

With the Need (Companion,) option, you just press that button, everyone who doesn't need the item rolls greed, anyone who needs it rolls need, and it's almost like you asked your party but all you had to do was press one button and it took < 1 second.

The argument that this will be the new greed is absurd because only dishonest players will use this as a, "new greed," in which case why are you rolling with them?

Without the Need (Companion,) button, many players will simply role need and screw over others who intend to use the item for their main characters, or be forced to roll greed and leave it to luck.

If people are forced to ask their party, wait for a response and then make an action. How would it be different than if they could instead just press Need (Companion?)

Uhh, why would everyone need every item for their companion? That doesn't make sense. People will Need (Companion,) what they need and greed what they don't. It will not become the new greed unless you are rolling with a bunch of people who really don't care about anyone but them self.

 

With this option available, the Need option can be greyed out for people who cannot use an item on their main character, while the Need (Companion,) option remains open.

 

This means that someone who Needs the item for their main character can roll Need without someone interfering, trying to get an item for their companion. Anyone who needs the item for their companion will only get to roll if no one rolls Need.

 

I am having a very hard time seeing a problem here. Greed becomes what it is intended to be... Greed roll. Need becomes Need for main spec, and Need (Companion,) is available for items that are not for your main character.

If this were true we wouldn't be having the problem we're having because peopole would already be able to follow gaming ettiquet. So yes, they would need companion.

As I already stated. Eventually every class will have a companion that can use each kind of stat. Therefore everyone can need anything for someone.

Also, to answer your editted in question. It's different because following ettiquet guidelines doesn't require any development time, nor testing. It just requires people to do their part.

If this were true we wouldn't be having the problem we're having because peopole would already be able to follow gaming ettiquet. So yes, they would need companion.

 

As I already stated. Eventually every class will have a companion that can use each kind of stat. Therefore everyone can need anything for someone.

I still don't understand how you think that everyone can need anything for someone? You know you generally role for yourself right and you only roll if it's an upgrade right? So, I still don't see any issue.

We are having an issue for a few reasons, one reason is that there is no way to indicate that you want to off-need an item for your companion. A similar problem is needing on off-spec items. Currently, the only way to roll for a companion item is to Need it. However, many people need items for their main characters. Therefore if players could not Need on items that their main characters could not use, and instead had an option for an "off-need," Need (Companion,) then players could utilize this option and eliminate a lot of stress.

Need > Need (Companion) > Greed = Disassemble

That's how it should work imo. I still don't see how it becomes the new greed since Need (Companion,) indicates something completely different.

Not everyone will want to upgrade all of their companions.

A companion can only have so much gear, and not all gear will be an upgrade.

How would it be the new greed? The answer I seem to be getting is, "It just would be since there are a lot of different companions everyone will want every piece of loot?" That does not compute.

Also, to answer your editted in question. It's different because following ettiquet guidelines doesn't require any development time, nor testing. It just requires people to do their part.

Inserting the Need (Companion,) option and greying out off-spec items from Need rolls changes the dynamic of the etiquette and in a way satisfies the etiquette by taking the burden off of the player to do the right thing and implementing a system that helps to decide the right action.

Scenario:

Player sees an item they want for their companion... Heavy Armor... Player is a Light Armor wearer...

Current decision process:

Do I take time and ask if people need it or just press need? *presses need and has a chance to screw someone over on an item*

(This could resolve normally if the person decides to ask, but again, with the proposed option it would be erroneous to ALSO ask when there's just a button that basically does that for you.)

A proposed solution:

Oh an item that I want for my companion, oh I can't need it since I'm a Light Armor wearer, *clicks Need (Companion,)* *someone else rolls need* *a player who can use the item gets the item.*

Lastly, the argument that people will be needing a lot of items for their companions... GOOD! That's the whole idea! Don't waste rolls. Don't waste a Need roll on companion gear, use a Need (Companion,) roll on it instead... this makes sure that players don't get screwed out of main spec items. If people are using Need (Companion,) and getting items that they need then mission successful.

I hope that more people consider this idea, but whatever, I haven't had any real loot problems yet. I just can't see why this is not a good idea.

Need for a companion is very selfish. If your companion was filling a 4th spot then atleast its more justified but if there is a playing person who gets outrolled for companion gear thats outrageous.

I didnt really consider this but having read this Im a lot more encourage to not run with people I dont know.

I still don't understand how you think that everyone can need anything for someone? You know you generally role for yourself right and you only roll if it's an upgrade right? So, I still don't see any issue.

 

We are having an issue for a few reasons, one reason is that there is no way to indicate that you want to off-need an item for your companion. A similar problem is needing on off-spec items. Currently, the only way to roll for a companion item is to Need it. However, many people need items for their main characters. Therefore if players could not Need on items that their main characters could not use, and instead had an option for an "off-need," Need (Companion,) then players could utilize this option and eliminate a lot of stress.

 

Need > Need (Companion) > Greed = Disassemble

 

That's how it should work imo. I still don't see how it becomes the new greed since Need (Companion,) indicates something completely different.

 

Not everyone will want to upgrade all of their companions.

 

A companion can only have so much gear, and not all gear will be an upgrade.

 

How would it be the new greed? The answer I seem to be getting is, "It just would be since there are a lot of different companions everyone will want every piece of loot?" That does not compute.

There are FIVE companions, not counting your ship droid. Five companions each filling a different role with different stats. Lets take Sith Inquisitor for instance. Companion 1, Heavy Armor Str. Companion 2, Medium Aim or Cunning (I forget which). Companion 3, Medium Strength. Companion 4, Medium Cunning. Companion 5, Light Will.

As such an SI can easily role need on SW Jug and Mar gear, IA gear and of course SI gear. Only BH isn't connected because regardless of which stat he uses Companion 2 is in medium not heavy gear.

Therefore and SI can roll need on almost every piece of gear available in the game. Someone = companions, since you're kind of dense on my explainations.

Now lets look at the IA, I've only gotten to the second companion and I'm already rolling cunning for myself, Aim heavy armor for Companion 1 and Will light armor for companion 2. That only leaves out STR.

Is it starting to sink in? It is an unnecessary button that becomes the replacement for greed, because it has a higher order than greed. People are rolling need because they're greedy and want to support themselves over everyone else. IF they can roll need they will. If they cannot roll need they will roll the next best thing, but it doesn't solve the problem. It also doesn't account for the polite ettiquet following group members that don't just roll and actually discuss the equipment and who should get it.

It's an artificial solution where a social solution is the most efficient and reasonable. Because it can't account for all eventualities.

You should NOT need for your companion. You shot need on modable items if they are already slotted for another class, because the style of that armor will be for that class. If you want it for your companion, ask if noone needs it first. If its obviously somehting that noone can use, go ahead. The loot from the flashpoints is the best stuff you can get. Dont be a dick. Share the wealth. Youll get into more groups that way.

Great example, med armor modable pants drop in hammer station. HUGE upgrade for me(gunslinger). Cunninng and end, they were obviously smuggler pants, and the style of them wasnt even close to what jedis wear(there is another pair that drops in there that is a robe with str/end). YETTTT, the idiot jedi rolls need and wins. I ask ***? He says, well I can take all those mods out, go buy a bunch of str and put them in. Well **** man, I can make a pair if thats your plan. But I dont just have 4 spare matching rare mods laying around at lvl 18, and I doubt he did either. He was just an idiot and a loot whore. He was also the reason we wiped on the last boss 5 times. If you cant equip it right then, dont need it unless noone else needs it. I promise he wont be reinvited to one of my groups.

I did 4 Flashpoints yesterday and got all the gear I wanted.

My solution is simple, Join a guild or run Flashpoints with friends and this will stop being an issue.