To start of with, not sure how many of you still here that was around back in 2009

Back then we did learn that BW didn't intend to add crafting what so ever to SWTOR.

Many of us me included was still playing SWG back then and I for one was a full time Master crafter back then.

We went to forums, sadly those aren't no longer here I've looked.

We told them over and over post after post that ADD crafting, in the end they did give us "crafting".

It's a FAR cry from what we once had in SWG, for those that remember it was second to none.

Yes, it was hard, extremely hard to craft in SWG if you compare to this.

In the end, they did add what we have today, better then nothing in some parts perhaps but again and again over the years they repeated the same mistakes over and over again.

Yet they are about to do it again.

Yes I did watch the live stream and been pondering about making this thread a long long time since I saw it.

The ONLY good part about crafting in that is, we will be able to craft the high end gear as you can loot in the world.

Now to the DOWN side of that coin and the fact that once more they are about to do the SAME mistake all over again.

NO MOD-ABLE GEAR!!!

This again is the same mistake you've done for the past 8 years.

Keith I know you wasn't around back then, but could you be so kind to make sure this don't happen again.

The main reason crafters can't sell nor have a major reason to make armour, weapons, dresses, hilts, offhands is that very reason, you can't MOD it and with that they become USELESS.

There is NO down side what so ever to allow us to craft the exact same gear that you can mod as you can loot or as a reward, most I think don't do them for the rewards as there main reason but for the FUN to do them.

I sure do, I pvp, do Ops, do Weekly and so on, partly due to the rewards but far from the main reason.

There is no down side to have us craft top end items that you can mod, since it does not hurt anyone.

You can still opt to loot it, do Ops, do Weekly if you like to, or you can opt to make it your self, or pay someone to do them for you.

It's play it your way in a part.

Look back at SWG, ALL items that was even remotely something to have was made by another player.

That system did work, we all needed each other, yes I know this ain't the same, still the concept is.

Toady for you to get the "BEST" you need others to do Ops, or you won't get it, or WB's on Ossus for that matter.

But we can't even craft close to something useful that don't need items from Ops.

Let the player choose what to do, let us crafter have a choice what to craft.

as it stands now, I craft next to nothing since I don't feel there is a need to or a reason too.

I have them all yes, but then again I have a bunch of char too, and been around since Beta in the game, Forums since 2009. so in that time I've had time to do a lot.

Why for the sake of doing something new, TEST to allow us to craft high end and I mean end game gear that you can mod with 6.0. worst case, you can always opt to remove it in a new tier update for gear if it don't work out.

But since loot drops in 6.0 will come from all and no one, let us again, craft ALL items that you can mod and at end game ratings.

I know the plan was / IS to let us craft end game NON mod gear.

Please, DO not repeat the same mistake once more.

Give us a reason to craft all items once more that we might sell.

Sincerly yours from Sweden

What's the point of crafting mod-able gear if you then have to mod them afterwards?

The idea behind it is that you can craft the best new gear tier in the upcoming expansion by being able to craft the highest rating gear and mods. If BioWare only allows unmoddable gear for crafting then that gear will not be competitive in PvP and PvE endgame because it will have a lower item rating compared to the gear that will drop in ops and in renown crates.

I would love to be able to craft more dye modules, colored cristalls and cosmetic armors.

Also craftable decorations and companions gifts would be awesome.

For now I only use crafting for augments, stims and sometimes cosmetic armor ...

The part I care about for "shells" that are moddable is that they be Bound to Legacy. Not immediately bound as what's the point in that? I mean BtL after the first character wears it, not when it is initially crafted.

Additionally, I would like more Cosmetic looks and items/decos that can be crafted. Unfortunately, that takes away from their Cartel Coin market which means a reduced amount of $$ from the playerbase.

Swtor is not swg. I say this as a former swg player. The sandbox concepts of swg will not work in SWTOR. It's just not made for that. The balance issues would become a nightmare to manage and maintain.

SWTOR will never be swg. I would not be opposed to an MMO trying to give a go at the sandbox approach again, and so long as it's paired with an immersive story which is something most sandboxes do not have oh, I think it could be a breakout success.

But that has to be considered in the design from the very beginning. SWTOR always has been and will be a theme park MMO. Not much more I can say to that. It's not even a preference thing; it's a concept and design thing.

What's the point of crafting mod-able gear if you then have to mod them afterwards?

You can use the gear at any level and switch out the mods when you get higher. I have mod-able gear that I have had for a while and just take out the mods and replace it in that set. Yes, I know I can just use any gear and have different look . I have over 16 outfits so I know all about that. Except I tend to augment my gear and that can be expensive if I have to redo all my augments when they upgrade or I want to change one piece of gear. It winds up being cheaper for me just to rip out the mods and put them in the gear I have.

Swtor is not swg. I say this as a former swg player. The sandbox concepts of swg will not work in SWTOR. It's just not made for that. The balance issues would become a nightmare to manage and maintain.

 

SWTOR will never be swg. I would not be opposed to an MMO trying to give a go at the sandbox approach again, and so long as it's paired with an immersive story which is something most sandboxes do not have oh, I think it could be a breakout success.

 

But that has to be considered in the design from the very beginning. SWTOR always has been and will be a theme park MMO. Not much more I can say to that. It's not even a preference thing; it's a concept and design thing.

Ooo I fully agree with you.

The point was about SWG is simply that, have crafters made top end gear, and that we can mod it do not ruin the game play in eny shape or form.

I played SWG for a lot of years up to the end, I've been here since well before the game ws live and played since beta so yes I know the difference.

Point is, There is no harm in crafters to craft the same items albeit different looking skins that you can loot or get from a Ops.

That was the entire point with that section.

You can use the gear at any level and switch out the mods when you get higher. I have mod-able gear that I have had for a while and just take out the mods and replace it in that set. Yes, I know I can just use any gear and have different look . I have over 16 outfits so I know all about that. Except I tend to augment my gear and that can be expensive if I have to redo all my augments when they upgrade or I want to change one piece of gear. It winds up being cheaper for me just to rip out the mods and put them in the gear I have.

Just as Casi said. Lets take an example.

Chest piece.

They look the same, they have the same EXACT same stats.

Looted you can mod.

Crafted you can NOT mod.

What one would you pick, the looted one

The answer to that is rather simple as Casi just pointed out.

Would you waste around 500K on mod slots on a non mod chest piece NO.

There for why would I pay said item when I know I can only use it for so long and I can't change the items in it.

come new gear I need to re-slot it again for a lot of money.

I for one hardly bother with Aug now for most my char, since I know that even IF they are modded and I can rip them out I will likely swap them all out come 6.0.

Sure it is a money sink but a poor one at that, we have had non modded crafted armour for the last 8 years and look what that gotten us, nowhere.

I have NEVER crafted armour for any of my many char over the past 8 years that's non modded gear.

Since there is still no reason to once again have crafter non modded gear all that will do is leave us in the same state again, no need to buy the schematics not craft any of it once again.

Since IF we for once can craft modded end game gear if leave us all with the option how to get that said gear.

More so, then crafted gear has a reason to be used with Aug and you can keep the shells but swap out the items inside them.

That's the whole point with this, Since not all might want said stats on what BW think you should have,

You might end up want to swap a Enh or mod out but with crafted gear you can't since you can't mod it.

thus it makes it useless for both PVP and PVE at end game.

They have already said, you will be able to crafted end game gear but NOT modded, that's what like them to change.

Simply, let crafter craft top of the line end game gear that you can swap out Armour, Mod, Enh in just as you can all you LOOT.

Regards.

Just as Casi said. Lets take an example.

 

Chest piece.

 

They look the same, they have the same EXACT same stats.

Looted you can mod.

Crafted you can NOT mod.

 

What one would you pick, the looted one

The answer to that is rather simple as Casi just pointed out.

 

Would you waste around 500K on mod slots on a non mod chest piece NO.

Your example is all over the place. Current non-moddable crafted high-tier gear is the MK-4 and MK-14 gear for Eternal Commander, Iokath and GEMINI flavours (230, 234, 240 and 246). It's all endurance-heavy compared to the corresponding MK-3 or MK-13 gear (moddable "looted" gear with its default mod-objects), *and* doesn't have a set bonus.

258 crafted gear, aside from the painful materials required, is identical to Masterwork gear from stuff on Ossus, including the ability to mod it.

Drillable mod slots for non-augment mods don't exist, and top-tier (MK-10) augment slots only cost 40K to insert the slot.

I am absolutely against this. What you are asking for is a market where people turn 75 and instantly buy BiS gear off the GTN and don't work for anything. This will completely undermine progression gearing and frankly what we have now is bad enough.

No.

This will completely undermine progression gearing

There's a very strong element of "so what?" about this. Why does it matter?

For reference: I'm opposed to this for different reasons, related to your point about instant(1) passage to BiS from the GTN.

(1) That's an optimistic prediction, since the gear won't be *cheap* on the GTN, not even close.

I see both points.

As I am not an avid crafter and have no experience with endgame crafting in other games, can somebody give me an example of a current Mmorpg which allows crafting of highest tier gear without compromise compared to endgame drops? Is it successful and fun or is it a detriment to the economy and/or endgame group content?

I am absolutely against this. What you are asking for is a market where people turn 75 and instantly buy BiS gear off the GTN and don't work for anything. This will completely undermine progression gearing and frankly what we have now is bad enough.

 

 

No.

Then my question to you is.

Who does it hurt ?, and more so why ?.

they already said we will be able too craft the BEST, only that we can MOD them.

So that we are getting BiS at 75 due to crafting is rather moot.

Still, WHO and WHAT does it hurt ?.

How is any way of the strech does it impact you if I would be given even FREE BiS then I reach 75 ?.

None what so ever since PVP will Bolster to MAX.

Ops still bolster.

PVE Matters to none other then me.

So for the final time, why and WHO does it affect if we can craft end gear that you can mod.

I NEVER said BiS gear mind you.

Your example is all over the place. Current non-moddable crafted high-tier gear is the MK-4 and MK-14 gear for Eternal Commander, Iokath and GEMINI flavours (230, 234, 240 and 246). It's all endurance-heavy compared to the corresponding MK-3 or MK-13 gear (moddable "looted" gear with its default mod-objects), *and* doesn't have a set bonus.

 

258 crafted gear, aside from the painful materials required, is identical to Masterwork gear from stuff on Ossus, including the ability to mod it.

 

Drillable mod slots for non-augment mods don't exist, and top-tier (MK-10) augment slots only cost 40K to insert the slot.

The point with the example was this.

IF I was to give you 1 free chest piece

Would you pick the

1 Non modded one

2 The modded one

As I've said before, BW in the live stream already said we will be able to craft top end gear

that takes the new items, just not MODDED ones.

I know about the 258, I have all those schematics, cost a lot too and sadly as we both know, 1 part is the hard to get one.

Still, WHY craft or BUY a crafted part regardless if it's armour, weapon, offhand or anything else IF you can't change the items in them.

To me both now and back in 2009 , I will say the same thing.

REMOVE CRAFTING then!

Either we craft items of USE or just REMOVE it.

Simple ain't it

Regards

I've taken the time to read through this ... And I see both sides.

1. I do like Cardinal's idea.. not bad really.

2. I do see Steve's point as well. He's usually right ... ( but not always )

There's only one comment that I thought was more of a "so what?" kind of thing !

Personally I'd like to see some interesting competition on the GTN for BiS stuff or something reasonably close that would still be nice gear !!

OP,

I suspect you will be able to craft the 6.0 equivalent to 246 purple gear when 248 was the highest. Isn't that good enough? I wore all 246 gear on my alts back then, especially left side.

PS - There is also supposed to be a new craft-only tac item 6.0.

IF I was to give you 1 free chest piece

Would you pick the

1 Non modded one

2 The modded one

Meh. If they are the same (same stat numbers, same set bonus if applicable, same appearance, etc.) except the moddableness, there's no reason to choose one above the other, *if I think there won't be loose mod-objects in the future for the next tier up*.

Since the moddable parts of the tiers have *always* had shell-with-modss and *never* meaningful amounts of loose mod-objects, the question is equivalent to "would I take the piece of gear or the piece of gear?", and frankly, in that situation, I'd pick the piece of gear rather than the piece of gear.

I'm still not getting it. Back in the day you could craft moddable gear for the appearance. Now you don't even need to do that with the dressing room. So crafting multiple sets of moddable gear seems redundant since you can just buy shells from the adaptable gear vendor for cheap.

Apparently in 6.0 the set bonus will move back to the shells, which just means you'll need a new set of shells and then re-mod it as appropriate.

I'm still not getting it. Back in the day you could craft moddable gear for the appearance. Now you don't even need to do that with the dressing room. So crafting multiple sets of moddable gear seems redundant since you can just buy shells from the adaptable gear vendor for cheap.

What you are saying it totally correct, then one can ask them self, WHY does BW once again plan to have crafters only make NON MOD end game gear ?.

There is no logic behind it beside shaft crafters once more in 6.0 with that mind set.

You still have all options to you.

Do Ops.

Do PVP.

Do PVE.

Do Weekly's

Buy of crafter

Buy of GTN

Craft your self.

THAT is play it your WAY. Not well how once again can we make pointless limits to crafters to make there items "useless" once more.

I know, let them craft end game gear, but with your the ability to MOD em.

No one is forcing anyone to get there gear from a crafter regardless.

No one is hurt if I was to have Ie BiS at 75, not that it will happen, but even IF that was to happen.

They already said, PVP will Bolster to MAX. so that's not an issue.

The rest, PVE and Ops, will only help said player or group.

Meh. If they are the same (same stat numbers, same set bonus if applicable, same appearance, etc.) except the moddableness, there's no reason to choose one above the other, *if I think there won't be loose mod-objects in the future for the next tier up*.

 

Since the moddable parts of the tiers have *always* had shell-with-modss and *never* meaningful amounts of loose mod-objects, the question is equivalent to "would I take the piece of gear or the piece of gear?", and frankly, in that situation, I'd pick the piece of gear rather than the piece of gear.

The first part in what you said.

I agree with that conclusion, but have you considered.

WHY then make crafted armour non mod ?

Apparently in 6.0 the set bonus will move back to the shells, which just means you'll need a new set of shells and then re-mod it as appropriate.

Yeah, that rings a bell.

But then again, why is ALL The gear up to date that we can craft non modded.

258 you can mod with bought schematics and we ALL know that's not an option at this stage.

So far EVERY high end item a crafter can make, Weapon, offhand, Armour what not is ALWAYS non modded.

So how many NON modded items do your end game char use ?.

for my 30 level 70 char on DM the simple answer to that is ZERO

Yeah, that rings a bell.

 

But then again, why is ALL The gear up to date that we can craft non modded.

258 you can mod with bought schematics and we ALL know that's not an option at this stage.

So far EVERY high end item a crafter can make, Weapon, offhand, Armour what not is ALWAYS non modded.

 

So how many NON modded items do your end game char use ?.

 

for my 30 level 70 char on DM the simple answer to that is ZERO

As you just mentioned, we can craft BiS items that are modable now. Yes the 258 mat's are behind a wall or extremely expensive on the GTN but that has not been your argument. What are you really asking for? To have BiS with easy to obtain mat's? If so say that.

To answer your last question, I use zero non-modable armor and weapons on my end game toons as well but, some of what I use I did craft so it is an option.

As you just mentioned, we can craft BiS items that are modable now. Yes the 258 mat's are behind a wall or extremely expensive on the GTN but that has not been your argument. What are you really asking for? To have BiS with easy to obtain mat's? If so say that.

 

 

To answer your last question, I use zero non-modable armor and weapons on my end game toons as well but, some of what I use I did craft so it is an option.

To have them let use make modded end gear items.

At the moment the last we know is that we can craft end game gear that's non modded.

Simple ain't it.

And place 1 part needed behind NiM is to me as the same as give us non modded armour.

Point is still, Since day one as far as I remember every "end game" items have been non modded.

the simple question is why.

Still GATE it behind OPS. is not the answer, since that takes it away from 90% of the people that play.