Well there is your problem.

 

Defensive stats (shield and absorb) are way too low. Even for pvp.

And with only 1100 expertise you're not doing yourself any favors.

I would like to disagree, most of the damage inflicted on a tank should be via guard, meaning it bypasses your defenses anyway.

A shield is basically useless in PvP. A lot of the big attacks by pass it anyway (Smash, Scream, Project all yellow damage) plus I may be wrong on this but won't white damage attacks that are crits always hit? So a shield isn't really too helpful.

Big white hitters:

Sniper: Ambush, Snipe, Takedown, Followthrough (30-40m abilities!) +Series of Shots (channeled)

Sin: Maul

PT: Railshot

Warrior: Ravage

Beside Snipe nothing can autocrit.

I run a 31/1/9 tankshadow in dps gear when protecting healer (~22k life with endu stim), and do not feel squishy at all.

Always fun to see RESIST pop up after a jugger tried to smash me.

. Our only defensive ability has been broken for months and nobody cares. I got 4k railshot thru resilience today and that my friends has a trolololol label attached to it..

The combustible gas cylinder burn can proc of white damage. It is very possible he was rapid shotting, got the proc for burn after you put up resilience and then rail shotted. The resilience causes you to resist the burn damage, but since it was put on after resilience was popped the dot will be applied you can still use rail shot... rail shot is also white damage so resilience wouldn't affect that.

I have three sets of gear for my shadow. One full tank for huttball, one unlimited power one for 31 0 10 / 2 31 8 and one with a tad less power and crit for when i go balance spec. When I carry the ball in full expertise/survivor gear adjusted for a bit of defence, there are powertechs on TOFN that kill me in 5 seconds tops, with a 5k railshot through deflection.

 

 

To answer the question, Shadow tanks are by far the squishiest tanks in PVP at this point in time. Our only defensive ability has been broken for months and nobody cares. I got 4k railshot thru resilience today and that my friends has a trolololol label attached to it.

 

 

 

 

Uhmm ... 'get a pocket healer' ... I am sorry but with a pocket healer it will take a very skilled dps to take you down in any class.

Not true at all.... Use your CCs on the pocket healer focus on the tank. I peel them apart constantly it's all about control. Shadow hybrid i get the healer to waste his CC break then lift him. 8sec hes out thtas enough time for me to burn down the tank. A lot of people get tunnel vision in pvp, but if you take a step back and have awareness you change your play style and do more control, might do less dmg overall however you'll have more kills. That way you dont whack on a tank for 2mins while he keeps getting healed lol

As a shadow in pvp i went back and did the numbers. spec into your 2%defense increase and higher sheild. Also if you can afford to get your 2 set PVE tanking bonus with your 2setPVP bonus this will allow you to have 5% higher shield rating while Kinetic ward is up. Absorb won't do toooo much in pvp being that auto crits etc will still get through. Making your other 2 mitigation stats more important.

32-34% defense.

50% shield

50%absorb.

Stack endurance when you can being that you'll be in the DR on mitigation, and stack expertise as well.

<3 you.

I have used both a focus and a shield and i say shield.... When i'm running away to go stop a ball run, stop a cap etc.. if im being autoattacked in the back i see the shield cut that dmg way down.. Yes it wont stop everything, but i believe the survivablity it gives me is better than the extra force power. Honestly if you try both for a few games you'll notice that 1v1s, 2v1s etc are easier with the shield.

23/1/17 is seriously monstrous in PVP. I've won 2v1's against some of the top rated pvp guilds. I have a smash sentinel, vanguard, sage, sorc, and my shadow honestly is the most op of winning the game. Yes my vanguard/Sentienl can do a ton of dmg.... but the control i have with my shadow being able to do dmg, survive, stealth, sleep, sprint... its a wonderful class to play and it takes time to master.

I recommend to eveyrone to roll a shadow/sin

Also just carry around 2 sets of full war hero in your bag, stims, and field respec.

I would like to disagree, most of the damage inflicted on a tank should be via guard, meaning it bypasses your defenses anyway.

 

 

 

Big white hitters:

Sniper: Ambush, Snipe, Takedown, Followthrough (30-40m abilities!) +Series of Shots (channeled)

Sin: Maul

PT: Railshot

Warrior: Ravage

Beside Snipe nothing can autocrit.

 

I run a 31/1/9 tankshadow in dps gear when protecting healer (~22k life with endu stim), and do not feel squishy at all.

Always fun to see RESIST pop up after a jugger tried to smash me.

I know about all the big white damage attacks and I know only Snipe has an auto crit built in but will anything the crits anyway still by pass a shield? Gunslingers and Snipers with 30% crit chance form gear plus 5% for their buff and 4% talented in Snipe/Charged Burst, Series of Shots/Speed Shot and Followthrough/Trick Shot at 39% crit chance. Those are all hard hitters on your list and if they are going to by pass a shield ~40% of the time would you be better off with the higher DPS of a focus?

So for augments what would any of you suggest I do?

Should I do the following?

Defense chance 30%

Shield chance 45%

Shield Absorption 60%

I would like to disagree, most of the damage inflicted on a tank should be via guard, meaning it bypasses your defenses anyway.

Is this actually the case? Now last time i played a tank in PvP was more near release, but back then i for sure noticed that when my guarded target would take 1000 dmg hit (say a sage) i would take way less than that. Either because of more mitigation from armor or the passive dmg reduction from tanking 'stance'. I still don't know which.

Now this might have changed somewhere between release and today and not be the case anymore.

Just wondering, in any case.

lol, nice troll. 8/10?

 

You do realize that inquisitors and consulars are mirror classes and so have exactly the same stuns that last exactly the same durations, right?

10/10

on my PT tank i rape shadows all the time and im not even dps! 1on 1

Shadows are squishy unless they're in hybrid spec. 1v1ing me is a different story... i'll mitigate your hits and do 4-6k burst.

So what augments do you suggest I use? and what percentage should I go with for each?

A mix of Defense and shield.

32-33% Defense.

50% shield

45-50% absorb since absorb isn't a strong one in PVP for this class.

Also if you get your PVE 2set you'll get an extra 5% shield while kinetic ward is active.

A mix of Defense and shield.

 

32-33% Defense.

50% shield

45-50% absorb since absorb isn't a strong one in PVP for this class.

 

Also if you get your PVE 2set you'll get an extra 5% shield while kinetic ward is active.

shouldn't I go higher in absorb then if it isn't that strong in pvp? what if I went 60%?? What about diminishing returns?

I love my Shadow. I feel squishy in Infil spec but that's about it (don't really play balance). In a 23/1/17 build you're almost unstoppable. Managing the defensive CD's is one of the hardest parts to learn for that class but once you do you really avoid a lot of damage. Especially with Spinning Kick available out of stealth for being able to stop Ravage.

 

A shield is basically useless in PvP. A lot of the big attacks by pass it anyway (Smash, Scream, Project all yellow damage) plus I may be wrong on this but won't white damage attacks that are crits always hit? So a shield isn't really too helpful.

to clarify shield mechanics ... shield mitigate based on attack type (melee/ranged is mitigated, force/tech is not -- no color coding for attack type) not on damage type. Armor mitigates based on damage type (white vs yellow).

And yes, auto-crit bypasses shield. When a special ability is not giving a boosted crit, it is uncommon for crit to be high enough to push shield chance lower.

So, smash (force attack) bypasses shield, as do all sage/sorc attacks (force/tech).

Check this thread for an excellent review of the shield and armor mitigation mechanics.

Is this actually the case? Now last time i played a tank in PvP was more near release, but back then i for sure noticed that when my guarded target would take 1000 dmg hit (say a sage) i would take way less than that. Either because of more mitigation from armor or the passive dmg reduction from tanking 'stance'. I still don't know which.

 

Now this might have changed somewhere between release and today and not be the case anymore.

 

 

Just wondering, in any case.

Someone once told me that damage taken via guard shares the same mechanics it used on the original target. IE, white damage that hits your guarded sage will apply to you as a regular white damage attack, and maybe (stretching it here) be shielded as well. Whereas yellow damage or internal damage will also be yellow or internal when it deals damage to you through your guard.

A good way to test this would be to have a sniper attack your guarded sage and see if your dark ward charges decrease.

Someone once told me that damage taken via guard shares the same mechanics it used on the original target. IE, white damage that hits your guarded sage will apply to you as a regular white damage attack, and maybe (stretching it here) be shielded as well. Whereas yellow damage or internal damage will also be yellow or internal when it deals damage to you through your guard.

A good way to test this would be to have a sniper attack your guarded sage and see if your dark ward charges decrease.

HEARSAY: damage redirected via guard to the tank gets armor and buff mitigation (e.g. guardian warding call) but not shield mitigation. That is, shield mitigation only applies to attacks directed at the shield wielder. I googled this topic a bit a while back and was able to find the hearsay but not anyone who claimed to have tested and verified this claim.

It is perfectly reasonable to assume that the {melee/ranged, force/tech} x {white dmg, yellow dmg} characteristic of the attack is used for both the primary target and the tank guard. Indeed, it is hard to imagine an alternative that does not seem nonsensical.

I forgot that I wanted to run some experiments to look into this. Thanks for reminding me.

Even with full elite war hero gear, it just doesn't add up why I get killed so quickly, so it just me or does the empire have more arsenal at there disposal than we do? The Inquisitors have more stuns than any class, your completely helpless when your stunned to the point of no return, yet you don't see consulars providing that amount of stuns at there disposal, it's almost like our absorb and shields are useless against power/surge/critical attacks because my HP bar drains rather quickly against them.

 

Shadow tanks could use a boost of something

If you're surrounded by 2 lolsmashers, probably even 1, you're probably going to die as a shadow tank with tank gear. Actually, if you're fighting pretty much anything as a shadow tank with tank gear, you're probably going to die. After the nerf to armor and self heals in 1.3, shadow tanks in tank gear are pretty much useless in pvp. People can claim otherwise, but no way they can take the same amount of hits as a tank geared/spec'd guardian/vanguard.

As for empire vs republic, they're mirror classes, so assassin tanks in tank gear are equally weak.

Switch to dps gear and you'll have a lot less problems.

nice guys finish last

lmao!

Lmao sorry i near choked on a bagel with this title. is this some form of joke?.

Shadow tanks/DPS tanks are squishy?. Do you actually play a shadow?.

I run a Infil Hybrid so i am squishy. But even i dont die that much unless focused.

Dont get focused use an ounce of common sense.

I run a Infil Hybrid so i am squishy. But even i dont die that much unless focused.

I wouldn't say Infiltration Shadows are squishy, considering they are DPS.

On the other hand, Balance Shadows are squishy.

As for Kinetic Shadows, even if they are sturdier than Infiltration, their surviabilty in PvP for a tank is somewhat low in comparison of what I call "a tank".

If you're surrounded by 2 lolsmashers, probably even 1, you're probably going to die as a shadow tank with tank gear. Actually, if you're fighting pretty much anything as a shadow tank with tank gear, you're probably going to die. After the nerf to armor and self heals in 1.3, shadow tanks in tank gear are pretty much useless in pvp. People can claim otherwise, but no way they can take the same amount of hits as a tank geared/spec'd guardian/vanguard.

 

As for empire vs republic, they're mirror classes, so assassin tanks in tank gear are equally weak.

 

Switch to dps gear and you'll have a lot less problems.

shadow tanks that wear tank gear are probably going to die? that sounds like it could be a balance issue that needs to be addressed to bioware.

shadow tanks that wear tank gear are probably going to die? that sounds like it could be a balance issue that needs to be addressed to bioware.

it was addressed to bioware, and bioware nerfed armor and self heals, then increased the amount of time you can be stunned even longer, so even less self heals. A lot of people wanted to keep the armor rating and no self heals, myself included, but that would require them to actually redesign the class and its mechanics, which they won't do. Tanksins with DPS gear were too overpowered in pvp, so a nerf was put into place. Result? Tankasins with DPS gear still powerful, slightly less survivability, and Tankasins with tank gear is like a sorc without the bubble, except sorcs can at least do damage.

The only workaround is to not use tank gear for pvp, period. Even in huttball, just grab the ball and toss it to a lolsmasher or a tank jugg/vanguard, they're more likely to outlast the sin in tank gear.

it was addressed to bioware, and bioware nerfed armor and self heals, then increased the amount of time you can be stunned even longer, so even less self heals. A lot of people wanted to keep the armor rating and no self heals, myself included, but that would require them to actually redesign the class and its mechanics, which they won't do. Tanksins with DPS gear were too overpowered in pvp, so a nerf was put into place. Result? Tankasins with DPS gear still powerful, slightly less survivability, and Tankasins with tank gear is like a sorc without the bubble, except sorcs can at least do damage.

 

The only workaround is to not use tank gear for pvp, period. Even in huttball, just grab the ball and toss it to a lolsmasher or a tank jugg/vanguard, they're more likely to outlast the sin in tank gear.

Is bioware going to fix this mistake? sounds to me to be a major problem

Shadow tank in full tank gear doesn't feel squishy to me. Not as survivable as a fully geared jugg tank, but the difference between tank in DPS gear and tank in tank gear is enormous.

Lots of people do DPS gear in Tank spec. Which is a perfectly good tank/dps hybrid and is fine for most regs. But full tank gear makes a big difference in survivability. Especially if you have a good healer on your team. You can survive things you definitely would not in DPS gear. Get full tank gear, think like a tank, play like a tank, and you will feel like a tank.

Shadow tank in full tank gear doesn't feel squishy to me. Not as survivable as a fully geared jugg tank, but the difference between tank in DPS gear and tank in tank gear is enormous.

 

Lots of people do DPS gear in Tank spec. Which is a perfectly good tank/dps hybrid and is fine for most regs. But full tank gear makes a big difference in survivability. Especially if you have a good healer on your team. You can survive things you definitely would not in DPS gear. Get full tank gear, think like a tank, play like a tank, and you will feel like a tank.

Shadow tanks are only as good as there support, I've noticed in most cases especially with republic players who lack healers in there group, while the empire premades are pretty balanced out with them.