Jayshames Posted June 7, 2013 Share Posted June 7, 2013 The same reason "people" shoot rockets, while others shoot Lightning, while others throw light sabres. Because classes have to be different or they'd be no point in having 8 choices of advanced class. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cycao Posted June 7, 2013 Share Posted June 7, 2013 Viable and optimal are separate things. Fine, healing and dps are both optimal. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
funkiestj Posted June 7, 2013 Share Posted June 7, 2013 (edited) ^ This Entrench - Entrenches you into cover, becoming immune to all controlling effects. Only usable in cover. Ends prematurely if cover is exited. Lasts 20 seconds. Key words ALL controlling effects which is knockbacks, push, pull, stuns, etc Diversion is one thing that will knock you out of entrench (hunker down). Of course diversion is not a controlling effect. I.e. a Marksman (sharpshooter) spec sniper (gunslinger) can knock another operative (scoundrel) out of cover. you do diversion on a sniper/slingeryour buddy force leaps (or pulls) the sniper/slinger is a standard tactic. Of course this requires you an a team mate to act as a team. Edited June 7, 2013 by funkiestj Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maelael Posted June 7, 2013 Share Posted June 7, 2013 (edited) Yep. Apparently it's ok for one turret class to function as a turret but not the other *read sorc/sage*. The logic of Biofail is beyond amazing honestly. This x Infinity. My level 55 min max partisan sorc is now an excellent crafter and backup healer for Ops. I even traded all of his ranked and unranked coms for Planetaries and medpacks for my Jugg. Diversion is one thing that will knock you out of entrench (hunker down). Of course diversion is not a controlling effect. I.e. a Marksman (sharpshooter) spec sniper (gunslinger) can knock another operative (scoundrel) out of cover. you do diversion on a sniper/slingeryour buddy force leaps (or pulls) the sniper/slinger is a standard tactic. Of course this requires you an a team mate to act as a team. I dont mind snipers that entrench that much. Gives me time to lay out some taunts and ensure the sniper is armor debuffed, so if/when the DDs get their acts together, they go down quickly. Mind you, not as quick as say, any other DD save a mara. Other nice part about snipers, especially if they are focused elsewhere, is they stay put while being fried by Sorcs or shot up by other DDs. Course, Sorcs are also static without all those "bonuses". Bottom line is Snipers are OP, but not impossible. Just know their limits and use other CCs/Abilities. Helps if you kill their healer too. Edited June 7, 2013 by Maelael Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skarlson Posted June 7, 2013 Share Posted June 7, 2013 Fine, healing and dps are both optimal. You must be joking or you don't PVP much. Sorc/sages are not optimal in any category. There are classes that do the same or better burst/dps with better survivability and the same or better cc. There are 2 other healing acs with better survivability. One can heal with people beating on them due to CDs. The other can be almost constantly on the move while healing. Sorc/sages have to stand still for 90% of their healing without the benefit of any defensive cds. They can achieve the same stand still while healing with a guard on them or someone else healing but so can others. Can you play and even enjoy a sorc/sage? Yes. It is most certainly not optimal however. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ravenschild Posted June 13, 2013 Share Posted June 13, 2013 (edited) They can be knocked out of entrench, it only works against CC's. My friend who plays a sniper constantly complains about how all entrench does is work against cc's and he's constantly knocked out of cover and then then cc'd lol. Playing a sniper I can tell you that we cannot be knocked out of entrench. Im guessing your friend is being knocked right after entrench ends or hes being counter sniped by a MM sniper. Edited June 13, 2013 by Ravenschild didnt finish Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
funkiestj Posted June 13, 2013 Share Posted June 13, 2013 Playing a sniper I can tell you that we cannot be knocked out of entrench. Im guessing your friend is being knocked right after entrench ends or hes being counter sniped by a MM sniper. NOTE: Diversion will take a sniper out of entrench. That and death . No CC will knock him out of entrench (as Ravenschild says). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DeadDogBarking Posted June 16, 2013 Share Posted June 16, 2013 Their attacks take forever for any real damage (sniper) so the interrupt is needed. You can always hit with a non ranged attack. They die to direct attacks. Operatives are a strange on because they can be in cover and still use their instant speed attacks and I think cover happens pretty quick so this is against the mobility needed for the attacks. This is pro the OP argument. Really it doesnt take much organized play or knowledge of the classes to get a sniper. If you have stealth they should be dead from behind. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Macroeconomics Posted June 17, 2013 Share Posted June 17, 2013 (edited) There are 2 other healing acs with better survivability. One can heal with people beating on them due to CDs. The other can be almost constantly on the move while healing. Sorc/sages have to stand still for 90% of their healing without the benefit of any defensive cds. Nah. Sorc heals > Merc heals. Everyone knows this. The Sorc is squishier. But this is readily addressed via team mate tanks and x-healing. The Sorc being squishier would have more meaning if people actually died in warzones. But since they don't if you are on a good team, the primary weakness of the Sorc is greatly lessened. As far as the OP's question - we all know the situation. Snipers are OP. They do more damage and have better survivability than Mercs. Sorcs do more damage than Snipers theoretically, but once you factor in people targeting the Sorc, the Sniper is preferred. The rationale for this situation is that BW is simply unable to diagnose it. BW has only a single person assigned to class balance. And as well meaning as he might be, the most he is going to be able to do is read weekly meta average reports and balance using that as his metrics. And so a FotM class like Snipers will always be buffed, since their meta averages are always being pulled down by the flood of new, undergeared, low experience players. The same thing happens with melee dps (i.e. Smash Monkeys), healers (Operatives) and tanks (Assassins). There isn't a solution to this. It is simply how BW operates. Edited June 17, 2013 by Macroeconomics Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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