Which is the best?

Which is the easiest to learn?

Juggernaut

Which is the best?

Which is the easiest to learn?

 

It's my understanding [i don't play a Tank] based on what seems to be the consensus that Assassin's are currently the best Tank overall. That's not to say Juggs are bad, I never got that impression, just that Assy's have the edge right now in the 5.X era.

Edited June 16, 2017 by WayOfTheWarriorx

Which is the best?

Which is the easiest to learn?

 

 

From my personal experience

 

Hardest: Assassin

Best: Assassin

 

Easiest: Powertech

Worst: Powertech

 

Juggernaut lands in between on both.

Jugg Skank Tank is the way to go - plenty of tankiness and with fine damage. The only problem is that it takes forever to gear up a skank tank.

They need to change it so that your guard and taunts are not as effective if you do not have full tank stats, otherwise you will have this skank nonsense for a while because trad. tanks are useless in pvp atm.

They need to change it so that your guard and taunts are not as effective if you do not have full tank stats, otherwise you will have this skank nonsense for a while because trad. tanks are useless in pvp atm.

 

This!!!

 

Make tank stats great again!

What really needs to change is people reflexively hating on skank tanks out of some silly notion of MMO purity. It's a perfectly legitimate gearing option, get over it. Edited June 16, 2017 by stoopicus

They need to change it so that your guard and taunts are not as effective if you do not have full tank stats, otherwise you will have this skank nonsense for a while because trad. tanks are useless in pvp atm.

 

They need to make tank stats work in PVP the same way they work in PVE. Meaning that defense/shield/absorb need to be as useful/critical in PVP as they are in PVE. At the same time, the guard ability can be locked to the tanking tree so DPS assassins/juggernauts/powertechs can no longer guard people. Then we can have traditional tanks in PVP (very high survivability, very low damage output) instead of the current "DPS tanks" meta (which you can't blame people for doing as it's the only way to play a tank effectively with the current state of the game).

 

Of course, people can still go tank spec with DPS gear if they want to sacrifice survivability for more damage. But the point is a "pure" tank with defense/shield/absorb gear should be MUCH harder to take down than a tank wearing DPS gear (even with high endurance), and likewise said "pure" tank should also do MUCH less damage than the tank wearing DPS gear. A lot of us PVP tanks would love to have the option to play a "pure" mitigation based tank in PVP that hits like a wet noodle but can survive for a long time (even without a healer), but it's currently not a viable option.

Edited June 16, 2017 by Volxen

The problem with this is not in the stats or viability, though. There's just simply no role for a tank in the current WZs. And even if there was, they would just get CCed while the enemy kills their healer (or vice versa.)

 

Think about it. What role really exists for pure, traditional tanks now? They make bad lone guards (except PT), as they nearly always can get sapcapped. Duo guarding they are fine, but any two classes are fine for that.

 

Attacking, they do very poor damage and are basically ignorable except for the fact that they are guarding someone else and CCing the enemy.

 

They are excellent (really, really good) at defending in a group, but so are other specs, and no one comes close to RDPS for that at the moment anyway.

 

Completely aside from any kind of gearing, traditional tanks simply don't have a role in SWTOR PvP at the moment. Their lack of viability stems much more from the fact that that are simply a bad choice for nearly any role in the current WZ design than it stems from any balance issues. There is just nothing for them to do that other specs cannot do better.

Edited June 16, 2017 by stoopicus

The problem with this is not in the stats or viability, though. There's just simply no role for a tank in the current WZs. And even if there was, they would just get CCed while the enemy kills their healer (or vice versa.)

 

Think about it. What role really exists for pure, traditional tanks now? They make bad lone guards (except PT), as they nearly always can get sapcapped. Duo guarding they are fine, but any two classes are fine for that.

 

Attacking, they do very poor damage and are basically ignorable except for the fact that they are guarding someone else and CCing the enemy.

 

They are excellent (really, really good) at defending in a group, but so are other specs, and no one comes close to RDPS for that at the moment anyway.

 

Completely aside from any kind of gearing, traditional tanks simply don't have a role in SWTOR PvP at the moment. Their lack of viability stems much more from the fact that that are simply a bad choice for nearly any role in the current WZ design than it stems from any balance issues. There is just nothing for them to do that other specs cannot do better.

 

Which is why guard needs to be locked to tank spec, and its effectiveness and that of taunting should be effected by shield/absorb/defense. If you skank tank, then it should be waaaaaaaaay less effective. THEN and only then would we see them becoming valid again

I think they would need to fundamentally change how taunting works in pvp for it to really matter. I could get behind your suggested guard change, sure, but I don't think it is compelling enough.

From my personal experience

 

Hardest: Assassin

Best: Assassin

 

Easiest: Powertech

Worst: Powertech

 

Juggernaut lands in between on both.

 

I tried them all in ranked and regs, all of them as skank tanks. And this post above is absolutely my experience as well. Juggernaut is rather more close to sins performance than being right in the middle I would say.

From my personal experience

 

Hardest: Assassin

Best: Assassin

 

Easiest: Powertech

Worst: Powertech

 

Juggernaut lands in between on both.

 

The best asset of PT Tank is the large AoE dps. With a healer is devastating.

As for a previous post, gearing must take in account several features and may take time.

Edited June 17, 2017 by Aetideus

Which is why guard needs to be locked to tank spec, and its effectiveness and that of taunting should be effected by shield/absorb/defense. If you skank tank, then it should be waaaaaaaaay less effective. THEN and only then would we see them becoming valid again

 

Agreed I played a tank in pvp in 4.x. 5.0 with guard on dps I swapped to vigi. Sure I don't eat damage as much as I used to and I lost hilt bash. But hey I kill a lot more. For personal reasons I refuse to skank tank. Mostly to kill the crappy mercs who reroll ed because "woo merc op". Lol

I played all three and my Sin is by far my favorite. Lots of utilities and ways to employ. I would disagree with the notion that Tanks don't have a role in PvP. Besides mind control (taunts) and guard, you can always find someway to get involved. I almost always have some kind of stun or interrupt off of cooldown. Force Pull, Whirlwind, Spike, Stun, and Force Wave give you lots of ways to contribute. These combined with tank survivability and force cloak, I count on spending the vast majority of my time on the map and out of the spawn cycle.

 

The thing about tanks in PvP is that their contributions are not as tangible at the finish screen. Almost always low DPS and protection scores can be situational. I prefer winning over personal stats though.

They would be viable if they buff their damage by 400%. Maybe the next round of buffs will finally make Jugg tanks playable. Jugg Tanks need to be in the 4500-5500 DPS range instead of 3000-3500

 

Ivanna Hurtyu

Rekt Shallube

They would be viable if they buff their damage by 400%. Maybe the next round of buffs will finally make Jugg tanks playable. Jugg Tanks need to be in the 4500-5500 DPS range instead of 3000-3500

 

Ivanna Hurtyu

Rekt Shallube

 

my tank geared tank specced juggernaut does almost the same dmg as my Lighting sorc in PvP in the same ilvl gear...

 

and no this is not a nerf juggs post.... its a buff the damn dps sorcs post damn it.......

my tank geared tank specced juggernaut does almost the same dmg as my Lighting sorc in PvP in the same ilvl gear...

 

and no this is not a nerf juggs post.... its a buff the damn dps sorcs post damn it.......

 

Hah!

 

The funny thing is that what he was asking for is easily done now. Just roll skank tank. I mean duh, "Gee I wish my tank DPS was higher" is EXACTLY WHY PEOPLE ROLL SKANK TANK. The survivability tradeoff is relatively small and the damage is a much stronger contribution for your team.

 

It takes considerable effort to skank tank (you need to gear up twice, once for the tank set and once for the DPS mods and enhancements - any of you that have complained about Galactic Command, think about that for a second) but IMO it's the strongest contribution to your team you can make as a Jugg (or for that matter a 'Sin tank) right now.

Edited June 19, 2017 by stoopicus

The problem with this is not in the stats or viability, though. There's just simply no role for a tank in the current WZs. And even if there was, they would just get CCed while the enemy kills their healer (or vice versa.)

 

Think about it. What role really exists for pure, traditional tanks now? They make bad lone guards (except PT), as they nearly always can get sapcapped. Duo guarding they are fine, but any two classes are fine for that.

 

Attacking, they do very poor damage and are basically ignorable except for the fact that they are guarding someone else and CCing the enemy.

 

They are excellent (really, really good) at defending in a group, but so are other specs, and no one comes close to RDPS for that at the moment anyway.

 

Completely aside from any kind of gearing, traditional tanks simply don't have a role in SWTOR PvP at the moment. Their lack of viability stems much more from the fact that that are simply a bad choice for nearly any role in the current WZ design than it stems from any balance issues. There is just nothing for them to do that other specs cannot do better.

 

Do away with Dmg completely Tanks should be a support role. For the Sith/Jedi adopt battle meditations. They channel buffs the longer the channel the greater the buff 5% more dmg or 3% more heals etc etc. Remove barrier from sorcs and replace with something that mitigates dmg. Then give Tanks the barrier with set number of hit points (basically alot) that protects the channel-er. Dmg done to the barrier mitigates xx% what don't get mitigated causes push back on channeled ability (i.e the 5% might drop to 3.3%) and would have to build back up. Could still taunt and guard as well. Utilities could allow multiple channeled buffs/de-buffs at cost of reduced hit-points to barrier so you could channel say a Debuff to ACC 4%, speed buff of 3%^ and DMG buff 6%.

Other utilities remove push-back effect , reduce decay rate of a buff when not channeling, increase rate of buff/debuff build, cloaking or obfuscation, wracking nightmares which causes other channelers to fumble to loose focus (could do a mini game here channler's have to dismiss phantoms while also maintaining buffs) dynamic buffs which offer huge boost but need to be managed (i.e a mini-game that when a certain optimum point is reached the channeler marks it giving the best buff possible miss it and you get reduced buff) these things would give A REASON to want them in matches also something meaning full to do in matches and completely remove the need to balance Tank dmg. The same could be applied to BH as well just change nomenclature and make it more mercenary'ish IMHO to have tanks doing dmg breaks the trinity by having them Channel buffs/de-buffs you keep them relevant and wanted and remain true to trinity. Of course i am also not stating that they do no dmg at all they could still have basic attack s and stuns etc etc. So if their barrier falls they can do some dmg maybe take out a weakened opponent but it shouldn't be able to compete with a pure DPS spec by any means.

Edited June 20, 2017 by Kazz_Devlin

I really do hate that the only thing that tanks are good for is their taunts in pvp, and skilled players will just do whatever they can to tunnel the weakest player or the tank then anyway.

Threat is a thing for PvE, but it's completely irrelevant in PvP. That needs to change. If a certain high amount of threat would result in the player getting hit by the tank dealing even less damage, maybe the spec would be worth a little more.

The tank in pvp is one of the strongest assets on the field in survivabilty and dmg. (we are assuming player skill is evened out)

 

1. Juggernaut/Guardian - this is without a doubt the best tank for the most part. It has excellent dcds to handle pressure, great utility of aoe snares, aoe stun, intercede, and to top it all of this thing can hit like a truck with 25k+ hits very possible.

 

2. Assassin - this is a number 2 but the gap is pretty big. The assassin tank is very rng oriented with alright cooldowns but can be easy to pressure and force to stealth out (not in the fight makes it a 3v4 so thats a win) and has decent aoe. Def takes a bit of skill to manage the cooldowns and the dmg is alright.

 

3. Powertech - is probably in the worst spot (what I play yaaay) due to the nerfs that rolled out. A pt tank compliments a pressure build team well but lacks the dcds to stay up in a longer fight, does not hit has hard or consistently as the other two tanks. I can't tell you how many times the hero engine has not registered dmg to somone in the center of my cleave, that adds up. And if the other team is not grouped toghther for long periods of time you will see your dmg numbers suffer. At least the assassins aoe attacks hit consistently and the jugg is just unrivialed in dmg.

 

This is of course looking at 4v4. But in the regs really anything goes if you know how to play it and recognize strengths and weaknesses. But if you are an assassin or pt and playing against someone at equal skill lvl on his skank jugg you will see how much of a struggle it is and you will put more pressure on your healer. That jugg can hard swap hard and hit just as hard as any dps, have self heals and the utility to make your life hell. But if you don't plan to jump into arenas any tank goes.

Ohhh here we go again... reserving this space for when i inevitably get pissed off.

This!!!

 

Make tank stats great again!

That's implying tank stats were ever good in PvP. I mean they only took 2477 days, from launch in December 2011 to the Game Update 5.9.3, for shields to affect critical hits. That change also doesn't solve the whole fact there's internal/elemental damage. Edited April 1, 2019 by TehStevo

Which is why guard needs to be locked to tank spec, and its effectiveness and that of taunting should be effected by shield/absorb/defense. If you skank tank, then it should be waaaaaaaaay less effective. THEN and only then would we see them becoming valid again

 

while I feel this could be towards a solution, I also think that the best way is to change what the scoreboard says:

- gove more importance to medals and not highest value in one field (dps guard etc)

- a single value for the collective value of healed - gaurded - and dmg

- a way to mitigate the numbers of fake dps

 

- INCLUDING/IMPLEMENTING/SHOWING to any degree the BONUS DMG recieved by ally abilitties

= a good pvp tank spec are some of the bonus boosting and slowing passive effects (shadow tank especially) u can choose. Pure tanks should get a lot less grief if dps whores could 'appreciate' the boost they recieve in regards.