So i'm a concealment OP, 3/31/7, just reached valor60 a few days ago, so i'm not an expert/hardcore player, but i have play a decent amount of pvp.

I usually do fine against most of the classes, but recently, i keep going into wz against these war-hero's rank shadow, i am aware of the gear discrepancy, but even when i open up with hidden strike on them...i still cant seem to fight them that well. Maybe i can kill them 2/10 of the times.

I find it so hard to fight them, they are doing damage similar to me, or even harder than me but their survivability is much higher than me.

Can any OP help me out here? Any suggestions are welcome

I have the same problems, along with sages .. We stand no chance what so ever ... Im actually suprised you have that good of a kill rate ..

Were similiar to flys just buzzing around them ...

Operative is a very weak class compared to every other one .. Its really sad the imbalances in pvp .. Good job bioware ...

Im sure in 1.2, we get nerfed even more .. Just watch ...

not going to QQ about it, but it is interesting reading posts in the shadows forum about opening a fight with 8000 damage (called "decent burst for a low-burst spec", e.g. balance-speced Shadow) with 2 attacks...

8000 damage via 2 attacks, outside of stealth... Oo

Operatives get what? nothing actually...

not going to QQ about it, but it is interesting reading posts in the shadows forum about opening a fight with 8000 damage (called "decent burst for a low-burst spec", e.g. balance-speced Shadow) with 2 attacks...

 

8000 damage via 2 attacks, outside of stealth... Oo

 

Operatives get what? nothing actually...

I really dunno...they seem to do similar dmg to us, but with a lot more survivability...

Anymore input from anyone?

v68 Scrapper here.

I am pretty damn good at my toon and have had very little trouble in any 1v1 situation. The only thing that I can't kill 1v2 is a tank/healer combo. Sometimes I outgear them, sometimes I outplay them. Sometimes both. It's not an epeen thing, I just hear so much complaining about how weak we are. This is -not- the case. Played well, we are terrors. Plain and simple.

Now on to your point:

Assassins/Shadows (especially tank hybrids) represent the toughest fight I have ingame. For awhile it was anni marauders (holy **** there are so many of those little bastards in 10-49 and everywhere at 50. fotm much?) but I worked to understand them and now have very few issues with them as well. TIP: Don't blow your stun early.

I still win most of my fights against Shadows/Assassins--I have yet to be 1v1d fair and square by anyone. But those guys, with their big damage and outstanding survivability make for a very fun, tactical and sometimes lengthy fight.

There are only 2 people on my server I will vanish and restart a fight if they catch me out of stealth--1 is a shadow, 1 is an assassin. Anyone else I feel comfortable going toe-to-toe with 1v1 even if they get the jump on me.

The short answer: Shadows/Sins are very worthy opponents in the right hands.

Hmm this answer does not help

But it is cool that you are cool

v68 Scrapper here.

 

I am pretty damn good at my toon and have had very little trouble in any 1v1 situation. The only thing that I can't kill 1v2 is a tank/healer combo. Sometimes I outgear them, sometimes I outplay them. Sometimes both. It's not an epeen thing, I just hear so much complaining about how weak we are. This is -not- the case. Played well, we are terrors. Plain and simple.

 

Now on to your point:

 

Assassins/Shadows (especially tank hybrids) represent the toughest fight I have ingame. For awhile it was anni marauders (holy **** there are so many of those little bastards in 10-49 and everywhere at 50. fotm much?) but I worked to understand them and now have very few issues with them as well. TIP: Don't blow your stun early.

 

I still win most of my fights against Shadows/Assassins--I have yet to be 1v1d fair and square by anyone. But those guys, with their big damage and outstanding survivability make for a very fun, tactical and sometimes lengthy fight.

 

There are only 2 people on my server I will vanish and restart a fight if they catch me out of stealth--1 is a shadow, 1 is an assassin. Anyone else I feel comfortable going toe-to-toe with 1v1 even if they get the jump on me.

 

The short answer: Shadows/Sins are very worthy opponents in the right hands.

So whats your advice for fighting a competitive Assassin/Shadow?

It is such a broad topic "How do you fight an assassin". So many different things can happen.

Here is how mine typically go.

We both start out stealth which blows because they have an advantage at seeing us based on your spec. (I dont pick up stealth detection because I think its a waste, but I believe most sins do) so 6/10 times they will find you first. If you happen to find one in stealth just do your opening number on them (acid/hidden, shiv, defib) They will probably CCbreak the defib and force speed away or use their immunity resist thing. If they force speed away they will most likely use force lightning to try to heal themselves which at that point I will vanish and reopen. They wont have their CC breaker up but they should be off resolve by this point so open again with hidden immediately without using acid blade. I then flashbang them which fills there resolve and throw a heal on myself and medpac. I will at this point have more hp then the assasin and all they will really be able to do is vanish if they choose, which will just reset the fight or use their resistance thingy in which case I will auto shoot them. The fights are always close, generally a split in my duels with the winner being at like 20% hp or lower.

looks like the recommendation is to stealth and run from the good ones

Re-read what I said.

I will vanish then attack.

Most folks I'll just take my chances out of stealth rather than wasting my disappearing act.

So ops r still good for 1v1 after nerf? been readin so many yes and no lol

yes they are

You mean an op/scoundrel cant kill a tank in a 1v1?

You can kill anything in a 1v1. An assassin tank will be the hardest though hands down.

Can any OP help me out here? Any suggestions are welcome

Howdy, Burns here. Let's run this down, I had nice duel sessions with two of the best Rep Shadows on my server, and I'll do my best to relate my experience here. I'm not going to get into he trivial things like "herpderp it's hurd to get a stealth opener" If you are BM+ and didn't buy you Op, you know basically what you are doing

Tank Shadow

1.) Open from Stealth with AB/HS

2.)Backstab - burn TA on Stim

3.)Let him get up, he will hit you with his saber to proc his Project instant crit.

4.)Vanish AS SOON AS YOU SEE THE PROJECT START - This is the hardest part, as an Op v Shadow, this works, as Project has the issue of roughly 0.6 sec of animation before the damage tags you.

5.)AB/HS

6.)BS

7.)Shiv/Lac He's getting up now, will likely be popping speed and you are prolly hovering around 60% energy

8.) SEVER TENDON IF SPEED IS POPPED, IF HE GOES SSJ (defensive CDs), Kite with Rifle shots/cover rolls, try not to let him get to close/far

9.) Flashbang/Debil Disturbance (Wind/Pebbles) - this heals them imperative that you STUN, as it is interrupt immune from talents

10.) Go for kill, Ex Prob/Shiv/Lacerate/BS+AB ad infinitum

The point is to get him to try to blow CDs when YOU are ready, this keeps them controlled and has steady damage on them, if they get too many projects off, you are gonna die, unless you have some sweet timings on popping Bubble probe. I need to work on my Assassin duels, huttball sucks for 1v1.

DPS Shadow/Sin

1.) HS/AB

2.) BS

3.) Debil

4.) Lac

5.) Shiv

If/Thens:

If he Breaks Debil, Vanish, watch for his cloak/vanish, 9/10 times they'll blow it to get a reopen.

Try to stay on him and go for a reopen when resolve is off, after that, easy peasy as he should be in the 60-40% range.

If he breaks from HS, laugh to yourself, Vanish and reopen immediately, as cloak shouldnt be able to be popped within 1 GCD of them breaking. Go for stunlock/kill.

Hope this helps.

You mean an op/scoundrel cant kill a tank in a 1v1?

You can kill an tank, but fighting a Shadow/Assasin is the topic of the thread and if I look at the replies it seems to be a hard fight.

Powertechs skilled DPS are at the moment are overpowered and are able to kill every class.

Maras are for every class a problem.

v68 Scrapper here.

 

I am pretty damn good ..

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..

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:D :D

Thank You for the Awsomenass info

First of all you mentioned the possible gear discrepancy. Don't brush that off too easily. Gear is every thing in this game. Never attack player skill to their valor boast. Most players simply get by with their superior gear.

Secondly you complain about playing a single spec against an entire class. You do not bother to mention what specific spec your enemy is. There is a huge difference in strategy between talent tree amongst single classes. As with most of the responses in this thread you seem to think operative = concealment and simply cannot consider an alternative to your build.

In order to beat some classes equally geared you may have to consider the possibility that concealment may be the weakest possible spec against them. In this case I would think your biggest obstacle is the gear gap. If you can beat him 2/10 times with inferior gear you may be able to beat him 5/10 times with equal gear which means you are perfectly balanced.

Truly of the most hilarious complaints players bring to the boards is something like: "HELP! I can only beat this other class 50% of the time! They are so OP!!!"

So ops r still good for 1v1 after nerf? been readin so many yes and no lol

gear dependent but the good ones yes yes they are.

Howdy, Burns here. Let's run this down, I had nice duel sessions with two of the best Rep Shadows on my server, and I'll do my best to relate my experience here. I'm not going to get into he trivial things like "herpderp it's hurd to get a stealth opener" If you are BM+ and didn't buy you Op, you know basically what you are doing

 

Tank Shadow

 

1.) Open from Stealth with AB/HS

2.)Backstab - burn TA on Stim

3.)Let him get up, he will hit you with his saber to proc his Project instant crit.

4.)Vanish AS SOON AS YOU SEE THE PROJECT START - This is the hardest part, as an Op v Shadow, this works, as Project has the issue of roughly 0.6 sec of animation before the damage tags you.

5.)AB/HS

6.)BS

7.)Shiv/Lac He's getting up now, will likely be popping speed and you are prolly hovering around 60% energy

8.) SEVER TENDON IF SPEED IS POPPED, IF HE GOES SSJ (defensive CDs), Kite with Rifle shots/cover rolls, try not to let him get to close/far

9.) Flashbang/Debil Disturbance (Wind/Pebbles) - this heals them imperative that you STUN, as it is interrupt immune from talents

10.) Go for kill, Ex Prob/Shiv/Lacerate/BS+AB ad infinitum

 

 

The point is to get him to try to blow CDs when YOU are ready, this keeps them controlled and has steady damage on them, if they get too many projects off, you are gonna die, unless you have some sweet timings on popping Bubble probe. I need to work on my Assassin duels, huttball sucks for 1v1.

 

DPS Shadow/Sin

 

1.) HS/AB

2.) BS

3.) Debil

4.) Lac

5.) Shiv

 

If/Thens:

 

If he Breaks Debil, Vanish, watch for his cloak/vanish, 9/10 times they'll blow it to get a reopen.

Try to stay on him and go for a reopen when resolve is off, after that, easy peasy as he should be in the 60-40% range.

 

If he breaks from HS, laugh to yourself, Vanish and reopen immediately, as cloak shouldnt be able to be popped within 1 GCD of them breaking. Go for stunlock/kill.

 

Hope this helps.

I actually find it quite hard to open up on them... can they sprint while in stealth?

I actually find it quite hard to open up on them... can they sprint while in stealth?

They can yes

I actually find it quite hard to open up on them... can they sprint while in stealth?

In my experience most tankassins will not bother with stealth unless they are alone. The trick is remembering that stealth detection is LoS dependant, and without talents, a normal stealthed player can be seen in about a 60 degree cone 15m directly in front of you.

Blackout/Sneak Reduces this to ~10m.

In learning how to kill Tankassins I had a very nice Twi'lek stand dead still and allow me the open, I tried the double HS ex probe open like 4 times and couldnt get him under 30%, once I gave up, and played more defensive/reactively, I killed him 3/5 times.

This is me in mostly Champ Enforcer gear (Weapon, Knife, 5 main slots, belt, relics), with only half the enhancements swapped for Power/Surge Crit/Surge. Approx 505 expertise.