Enrage timers are basically gear checks in this game. Cant beat the enrage timer? Your dps needs better gear and damage output.

 

Enrage timers eliminate any strategy except tank and spank. They only server to reinforce the fact that this game is a 2005 release in 2011 clothing.

Without enrage timers, people would just setup groups based around a main tank, backup tank and a healing rotation and win by attrition...no matter how long the fight took....as long as you could outheal the damage the tank was taking. Nothing epic about that.

 

I prefer the fast and furious flurry of battle needed to burn a mob down before enrage...

Enrage timers are basically gear checks in this game. Cant beat the enrage timer? Your dps needs better gear and damage output.

 

But what actual purpose does it solve? Why does it matter to anyone how long it takes to accomplish the goal if you can accomplish it?

 

My point being - we have the DPS to down the mob, we have the gear to not die while doing it, we have the tactics to defeat that actual 'real' mechanics of the encounter. We just take 30 seconds longer to do it than you do and we get a solid wall of 'no pass' put up because of it.

 

That is poor design and arbitrary and we need to stop accepting it as a 'valid' solution to content.

Without enrage timers, people would just setup groups based around a main tank, backup tank and a healing rotation and win by attrition...no matter how long the fight took....as long as you could outheal the damage the tank was taking. Nothing epic about that.

 

I prefer the fast and furious flurry of battle needed to burn a mob down before enrage...

 

And the fact that they killed the mob in 6 minutes to your 5 minutes hurts you how?

The only HM boss that's routinely worked our butts has been the Sith Entity bonus boss in HM False Emperor. We're still building our gear up but geez when that final entity spawns he automatically enrages and kicks our butts.

 

 

This. Usually he enrages, tank and healer eat it and me and the other dps juggle him. Usually its less then 2% so it doesnt take us much to kill him.

 

The other issue we have had. HM Foundry, HK event bugs after we hit the panels.

Pretty much, they could have at least added one new mechanic to the last boss.

 

But nope, no changes, just an enrage time. I expected nothing less from Bioware, they don't even care now that they have our money.

Gear requirement to reach performance minimums

 

Is part of strategy.

 

It is just one bads complain about.

 

 

 

But what really makes it hilarious is that it is in this game, of all the MMO's I have ever played I have never had an easier time gearing up.

Wrong on many levels.

 

Enrage Timers do not have to remove anything but tank and spank. That is a false, and lazy, assumption to fuel the flames.

 

Its perfectly possible to design a boss with added time for encounter mechanics figured in. Actually, most bosses with lenient rage timers have those. Only a very few bosses currently in the game have actually LIMITING enrage timers which comprise the main challenge of the fight.

 

Bulwark, the Commander in Black Talon, possibly the 2nd Boss in Battle for Ilum.

 

The others are more or less mechanics-heavy (see Jindo Krey) but still have a timer so you cant just 3-heal them.

 

Which is the reason for enrage timers or similar mechanics: In a game with a ressource system like SWTOR, you can basically play the endless game of staying alive. Its the price for not having a finite ressource, and its a design concept that runs counter to what WOW used to be.

It also puts ressource managment front and center for many classes, which many people including me find to be a healthy, refreshing change of direction compared to infinite mana pools, or a limit number of mana points which basically put a heavy burden on tank gear and damage avoidance so you dont run out of mana at the last minute in a 20 minute fight.

 

I think most bosses in the game right now are not well-tuned. Most are too easy. Some (Jindo again, HK-47 in False Emperor, the Jedi chick in Black Talon) are well done for the intended challenge, but most are too easy (Malgus, Sevrin, the three Assassin Bots in Directive and so on), while a few are too stringent (Bulwark, the last boss in Boarding Party).

 

If a few nasty problems with DPS spec balance are adressed (namely Juggernaut/Guardian DPS in DPS spec being horrible, while Pyrotech lacks Aggro reduce etc.) and people would realize that for once in this game, responsibility for proper play does not rest on the shoulders of tanks and healers alone, a slight retuning would make this an excellently balanced end game.

And the fact that they killed the mob in 6 minutes to your 5 minutes hurts you how?

 

If they dumb down the game even more, it becomes less fun for me to play it.

If they dumb down the game even more, it becomes less fun for me to play it.

 

Ah - I see.

 

So arbitrary time limits that have nothing to do with being able to kill the content is a 'smart mechanic'.

 

If you want a DPS check - then program a damn DPS check. Make him heal so fast that I simply could spend the rest of my day trying in vain to bring him down. They aren't doing that - they are assigning a limit that has no basis on what the group can do just how quickly and without any upfront reason for doing so.

 

It is an archaic mechanic that needs to go away.

Edited February 1, 2012 by Loendar

Ah - I see.

 

So arbitrary time limits that have nothing to do with being able to kill the content is a 'smart mechanic'.

 

Don't forget copy-pasting every fight while adding nothing new.

Most of the hardmode content is ok, but for christ's sake: The endboss fight is a total joke. On Rep side almost undoable. (Imp gets favoured by the devs as we all know and the advantage that peefs me in PvP - iE Animation times to apply damage etc - clearly makes it almost a cakewalk in comparison I would imagine) But that is besides the point. The point is this: Who the hell came up with the ill fated idea to have a 2 MINUTE (!!!!) enrage timer on a hardmode boss that is there to gear up for OPS if you need OPS gear to beat the enrage timer?

 

Look we are not noobs here. We are amongst some of the most experienced MMO players out there and trust me that we know what we are doing. If I cannot beat a boss after 100k repair bill (also who the hell conceived these repair prices btw????????? Belongs fired!)and like 15 wipes and trying everything I say one thing: This is either bugged or total nonsense design.

 

It's like: It's a hardmode, let's make him hit for 12k with 2 crystals in a row and whack a super-short enrage timer on. That'll do!

 

 

WRONG!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

What you need is better and more mechanics not the same **** just 100 levels tougher and with unfairness triumph enrage timers. BioWare this is not fun - this is plain stupid and game breaking for me. An enrage timer belongs to an OPS - NOT IN A HARDMODE!!!

This is just plain rubbish!!!!!

 

Oh and I cannot await all the trash replies I expect telling me how I suck and we are just bad players and all this crap. No we aren't . But the boss fight designers should steal more from Blizzard tbh. <------And I NEVER thought I would say that, but WoW boss encounters are cool, because hardmodes ADD mechanics not unfairness!!!!!!!!!!!

 

As it is-I will not progress because I cannot. So I will play another alt up until it is fixed I guess. Oh and just so you know the statements go for almost all hardmodes. We did the False Emperor last night. We actually managed - not sure how but we did. HK-47 was WAYYYYYYYYY too hard and we were just lucky. Then we come to Malgus and he was a lousy pushover. Must have been the easiest encounter I have played on hard. What is the problem with you guys in Austin. This is BETA stuff guys. This is not ready to be let loose on 08/15 players at all.

 

I went from excited to interested to frustrated to angry to...........thinking of my dollars spent! Not good BW-not good at all. If endgame continues like that I may just leave. <------another thing I never thought I'd say.

 

P.S.: So we are clear: average gear level of the group around 126!!!!!! O.o Outrageous!

 

In EQ when The Avatar of War was made an available encounter you could engage it was impossible to kill in top end gear. The first AoW kill didn't come until awhile after his release. Stop crying, it's not WoW.

In EQ when The Avatar of War was made an available encounter you could engage it was impossible to kill in top end gear. The first AoW kill didn't come until awhile after his release. Stop crying, it's not WoW.

 

You're right. Why put in new mechanics in a boss fight? We can't have Bioware trying to add any actual content to this game now can we?

My point being - we have the DPS to down the mob

 

No you don't. If you did, you wouldn't be here whining.

You're right. Why put in new mechanics in a boss fight? We can't have Bioware trying to add any actual content to this game now can we?

Some bosses are all damage and hit points (like the AOW in EQ) and some have heavy strategic value (Like the Ssra Emperor in EQ). You have no right to complain about an encounter that was designed a certain way. Sometimes, overcoming the damage output and raw HP of a raid mob is a mechanic all by itself. They obviously don't have the same vision of that specific raid boss that you do. In the future there will be some that fulfill your strategic requirements. It's not that they're unable to do it, they simply didn't think it made any sense for that particular mob to be overcome with strategy. Also, sarcasm is the lowest form of wit. You're better than that.

No you don't. If you did, you wouldn't be here whining.

 

You clearly are a constructive member of the forums and I salute your astute observation.

 

The mob is dead - in 6 minutes instead of 5. That is the DPS and ability to down the encounter. Arbitrary time limits to doing it are lazy and poor design.

 

It is NOT a DPS check - it is a time check. Something that has no business in a well designed MMO.

Edited February 1, 2012 by Loendar

Some bosses are all damage and hit points (like the AOW in EQ) and some have heavy strategic value (Like the Ssra Emperor in EQ). You have no right to complain about an encounter that was designed a certain way. Sometimes, overcoming the damage output and raw HP of a raid mob is a mechanic all by itself. They obviously don't have the same vision of that specific raid boss that you do. In the future there will be some that fulfill your strategic requirements. It's not that they're unable to do it, they simply didn't think it made any sense for that particular mob to be overcome with strategy. Also, sarcasm is the lowest form of wit. You're better than that.

 

I wouldn't mind enrage timers, but every boss has one. Every single one. They are not different from their normal mode counterparts. Just a timer slapped on for artificial difficulty.

 

It's lazy design and you know it.

Enrage timers are a worthless and lazy way to design content in any game. Either I can kill the mob with my group, or I can't. Why should it matter how long it takes me to accomplish my goal? Dead is dead.

 

I'm from EQ2 and that mechanic, while it does exist on some of the higher end content, is used as an obvious timer mechanic and doesn't just wipe you but starts ramping up the difficulty while leaving you a chance if you start executing well.

 

Enrage timers shouldn't exist in any fashion - they aren't fun, they aren't challenging and they bring nothing to the event. Pure Dev Lazy.

 

This, a thousand times..

Think the most whacked out boss is the new HM FP with the Rakghouls. The bonus boss there is insane, goes into statis, spawns 3 adds that have elite hp (39k) and does champion damage(boss damage). We're supposed to burst them down... wait 3 of them on top of that they're strongs but with elite hp? So we managed to burst down one before the boss came back (oh god he comes back so fast) now I have 2 elites I have to manage and a giga boss shooting at me. Yeah... bet half of you out there is going to say "CC DAT ADD" but unfortunately if we did he would spawn another 3 adds at 40%? Yeah have fun with 6 adds. Unless there is a mechanic we were unaware of this boss is truly unfair compared to any other HM FP's out there. Hell the other ones are easier compared to this bullnyerk.

I wouldn't mind enrage timers, but every boss has one. Every single one. They are not different from their normal mode counterparts. Just a timer slapped on for artificial difficulty.

 

It's lazy design and you know it.

So you're saying normal and hard modes are exactly the same but the bosses ONLY have a shorter enrage timer?

I'm thinking you guys would of hated Coirnav in the Plane of Water on Eq1.

 

15 minutes to kill 100s of adds, 4 mini bosses than Coirnav. Timer goes up, whole raid gets banished and event resets for 4 hours.

So you're saying normal and hard modes are exactly the same but the bosses ONLY have a shorter enrage timer?

 

As far as Flashpoints go, every fight is the exact same mechanic wise. The boss just does more damage and has an enrage timer.

 

The only "different" thing is mechanics you may have ignored in normal mode (ex. Interrupting the optional Droid boss in BT)

I'm thinking you guys would of hated Coirnav in the Plane of Water on Eq1.

 

15 minutes to kill 100s of adds, 4 mini bosses than Coirnav. Timer goes up, whole raid gets banished and event resets for 4 hours.

 

Been there.

 

As I've stated - I'm not opposed to judicious use of timers if they make sense within the context of the event and what is happening around you.

 

I take exception to it being the fall-back for every encounter to have an arbitrary time limit because you are too lazy to design in actual abilities and mechanics that present a challenge.

I'm thinking you guys would of hated Coirnav in the Plane of Water on Eq1.

 

15 minutes to kill 100s of adds, 4 mini bosses than Coirnav. Timer goes up, whole raid gets banished and event resets for 4 hours.

I agree. I was in top end progression in EQ1 in a guild called Triton on Povar and back in Gates of Discord and before that expansion the game was leaps and bounds more difficult than the MMO's that came after it and have subsequently created a culture of MMO players who would never ever have considered raiding in an older MMO like EQ1.

Yeah old school EQ raiding was tough. Haven't seen the latest raids, but pretty sure they are still difficult. When I quit EQ 2 months ago the top guilds were still only on T2 of 4 of the latest expansion

 

Timers don't bother me. Events get trivialized once you get the tactics down. I don't think some grand mechanic will ever exist that wont get face rolled eventually.