Make a video of him getting unjustly banned, post the entire correspondence between him and Bioware, including his appeal and the length of his punishment, then I believe you - otherwise just hot air.

But before you do, read what's below:

 

 

 

You know, or should know, that naming people on the forums is against the EULA/TOS. If not, I suggest you read it.

And that is also WHY you cannot or should not post videos here (or email correspondence for that matter).

One quick note, "your" guild is not one of them, so relax.

 

 

 

Aha, so you are telling me that you are completely aware of every ability, every gcd and every movement of all of your teammates at all times, even the guy ninja'ing the far node? Sure, I believe that.

 

 

It's funny how all the "there are no cheaters" people have moved to the server forums now.

OH so you're one of those people that makes baseless claims with no evidence to support it and won't put your name on it so everyone knows who you are, then you hide behind the EULA. We have a term for that on the internet, it's called an Anonymous Keyboard Warrior. Generally speaking your opinion is null and void.

As for me getting video of him being unjustly banned I'm not the one making accusations so why would I need to? You guys are the ones that are crying foul YOU prove it. Considering how openly disputed it all was, it's amazing that there was still no evidence showing he was hacking despite how much support he got and still gets being banned. Of course there is the whole argument that EA would absolutely research this and we're supposed to accept that from a company that researches things like THIS.

Also yes, I'm telling you I am aware enough to know if something out of the ordinary happens in a warzone and I'm certainly smart enough and experienced enough to know if it was completely out of the ordinary or impossible. Also my comment was about high level PVP which would mean that we were in mumble/vent with whoever was guarding the off node and that said person would certainly call out if someone is trying to ninja the off node.

As for your little sarcastic comment at the end there... I'll just assume you missed the part where the whole point of this thread was about a column that specifically targeted our server and guilds from our server. That's probably why it's on the server forums and not anywhere else.

Anyways until you want to put some names on your claims instead of hiding behind a EULA I'll go ahead and quote Psi there and say "Just stay out of it bud, grown-ups are talking."

Kthxbai.

Make a video of him getting unjustly banned, post the entire correspondence between him and Bioware, including his appeal and the length of his punishment, then I believe you - otherwise just hot air.

You make an argument with no evidence. You point out that you can't furnish evidence because its against the user agreement. Fair enough, in that case we're are forced to make arguments from authority. I'm Asuna, I heal for the best Pub team on the server if not the best team on the server. I say you're wrong. Since you can't furnish evidence because its against the terms make an argument from authority or back away from this discussion and all like it.

PS you still wouldn't believe Tairisa even if the video of the conversation existed, you would just demand more evidence, like you did when she pointed out that just about every ranked match with the banned guy and many regular matches have been recorded and there is nothing there.

?

 

I didn't realize Nekron, Vullesh, Dragis, Sheemie, Lainon and Psiebral were all on your "b" team.

 

Just like you guys, we had some on our A team and some who aren't.

kickball involes two captains from cookies, and each captain takes turns picking people until they have a team of 8 people.

In other words, when you see a kickball team you are getting exactly half of the top 8 players, and only out of the people who are actually online at that time.

It's quite different from a situation where you see 12 people online, grab the best 8 and form a team out of those 8 players who may or may not be your best 8 if others were online. We have players who aren't online too, and then we divide our strength into halves.

"Again I don't know if you play on the Harbringer. But if you do you should know there is basically no hacking going on our server in 50s."

 

http://www.swtor.com/community/showthread.php?t=577932

 

we are on the largest populated server in the game...the game has hacks...of course there is hacking on our server. To clarify I have seen one of these guilds across the map with a prebuilt and they school us...I understand that...that is not hacking. being stunned 3-4 times in a row is NOT hacking...an "invincible" player is NOT hacking...A player moving fast once or twice is NOT hacking...I do understand what I am talking about.

So I watched the video, saw some guy moving left and right sporadically when the direction he would have walked in is quite obvious, and when he did get there he immediately got his face blown the **** up. Died before you even left the deadbox. It might actually be the feastest death I've ever seen from a marauder/sentinel.

I have seen a video where a guy speeds accross the bridge in a voidstar and I heard our guys all saying "oh yeah that guy is definitely hacking". In that video there was no erratic movement, he capped the door and he didn't die in 5 seconds like a noob.

In conclusion, I'm fairly certain this guy was lagging and not cheating because lets face it, nothing spectacular occured there except for the speed at which his sentinel face got put in the dirt.

OH so you're one of those people that makes baseless claims with no evidence to support it and won't put your name on it so everyone knows who you are, then you hide behind the EULA. We have a term for that on the internet, it's called an Anonymous Keyboard Warrior. Generally speaking your opinion is null and void.

<snip>

Anyways until you want to put some names on your claims instead of hiding behind a EULA I'll go ahead and quote Psi there and say "Just stay out of it bud, grown-ups are talking."

 

Kthxbai.

You are getting too enraged here, that's neither good for your health nor does it lend your opinion anymore credence - quite the opposite actually. One might start to wonder why you are so adament about it.

I don't use cutsy avatars or silly signatures. I don't mind if people do, but it's just not for me.

Looks like in your world those things are important, but in mine they are not.

You make an argument with no evidence. You point out that you can't furnish evidence because its against the user agreement.

You say give me proof of cheating.

I say give me proof that the guy has been banned unjustly.

Neither of us can legally provide evidence, unless we want to violate the EULA.

How about we agree that there is no cheating, but your buddy's ban was fully justified?

I'm Asuna, I heal for the best Pub team on the server if not the best team on the server. I say you're wrong.

I'm online gaming for the last 15 years and I have seen, researched, and in some cases tested, every cheat or hack for every game I have played. I say you're hypocrite.

(You cannot claim more competence and neither can I, so I hope you realize how pointless your statement really was?)

You are getting too enraged here, that's neither good for your health nor does it lend your opinion anymore credence - quite the opposite actually. One might start to wonder why you are so adament about it.

 

I don't use cutsy avatars or silly signatures. I don't mind if people do, but it's just not for me.

Looks like in your world those things are important, but in mine they are not.

Considering you won't put a name on your statement essentially makes your statement pointless. For all we know you don't actually play on this server and you don't actually PVP. So congratulations on being nothing more than a forum troll.

Considering you won't put a name on your statement essentially makes your statement pointless. For all we know you don't actually play on this server and you don't actually PVP. So congratulations on being nothing more than a forum troll.

Agreed I think hes a coward probably very bad at this game, I ask him to give us proof he doesnt suck before he writes in teh forum again

 

You say give me proof of cheating.

I say give me proof that the guy has been banned unjustly.

Neither of us can legally provide evidence, unless we want to violate the EULA.

 

How about we agree that there is no cheating, but your buddy's ban was fully justified?

 

I'm online gaming for the last 15 years and I have seen, researched, and in some cases tested, every cheat or hack for every game I have played. I say you're hypocrite.

 

(You cannot claim more competence and neither can I, so I hope you realize how pointless your statement really was?)

I can claim more competence because I'm willing to offer up proof of my authority for my argument form authority. you can log onto our server and ask any of the better pvp guilds if asuna heals for the top pub rated team and they will say yes. You can then whisper asuna and ask if my forum name is asunasan and I will say yes it is. You gave me no such method of verifying your authority so you have no authority to argue from. Once again I'd prefer to use facts like the videos but you hide behind the terms of use which I'll admit is fair. It does force us into arguments from authority territory though, and until you give us some way to verify your authority you have no argument.

We can't agree that there is no cheating in this game but the ban was legitimate because it is logically fallacious. There can't be no hacking and yet have a person legitimately banned for hacking. BTW he isn't my friend, I played against him in fact. Not that that bit is really relevant. So since, as you pointed out we can't offer evidence we have to argue from authority, so far you have established none.

So I watched the video, saw some guy moving left and right sporadically when the direction he would have walked in is quite obvious, and when he did get there he immediately got his face blown the **** up. Died before you even left the deadbox. It might actually be the feastest death I've ever seen from a marauder/sentinel.

 

I have seen a video where a guy speeds accross the bridge in a voidstar and I heard our guys all saying "oh yeah that guy is definitely hacking". In that video there was no erratic movement, he capped the door and he didn't die in 5 seconds like a noob.

 

In conclusion, I'm fairly certain this guy was lagging and not cheating because lets face it, nothing spectacular occured there except for the speed at which his sentinel face got put in the dirt.

so...you HAVE seen hacking videos...but the video i linked too (which is a hacking video) isn't a hacking video...or something?

we. have. the. biggest. server.

that means more people.

that means more hacking.

hacking exists. people know some guilds on Harbinger do it. story over.

that means more people.

that means more hacking.

There isn't necessarily a causal relationship there. But yes I agree hacking exists (though not nearly to the degree that the average forum goer believes). I saw a video of it happening in lowlifes on harbinger. I haven't seen it in 50s though on any server I play on since the beginning of last year.

so...you HAVE seen hacking videos...but the video i linked too (which is a hacking video) isn't a hacking video...or something?

we. have. the. biggest. server.

that means more people.

that means more hacking.

hacking exists. people know some guilds on Harbinger do it. story over.

Wrong.

People know of TWO individuals that have done it before, as those videos are the only two pieces of actual evidence of any speed hacking in the 13+ months this game has been active. The ONE who was on harbinger was permabanned long ago, was playing lowbie, was not joined to any guild prior to being banned, and the other guy didn't even play on our server.

The kind of ******** fuzzy logic you put into these hackusations claiming pvp guilds hack because of that one event isn't going to convince anyone.

Knowing that, I know of two cases where someone who never actually hacked was banned and then had their ban lifted due to there being no actual evidence, so even among people who have actually been banned the record is 50/50 at best.

In conclusion, l2p.

I can claim more competence because I'm willing to offer up proof of my authority for my argument form authority. you can log onto our server and ask any of the better pvp guilds if asuna heals for the top pub rated team and they will say yes. You can then whisper asuna and ask if my forum name is asunasan and I will say yes it is. You gave me no such method of verifying your authority so you have no authority to argue from. Once again I'd prefer to use facts like the videos but you hide behind the terms of use which I'll admit is fair. It does force us into arguments from authority territory though, and until you give us some way to verify your authority you have no argument.

I neither questioned who you are nor did I request proof of your identity.

So you are a healer for a good pvp guild - ok good for you.

But enlighten me, how does that make you an expert on hacks and exploits?

I'm 2 generations removed from social media. I'm not on facebook, twitter, etc. because I value my pricacy.

Apparently in your world, being private means being wrong?

Would my identity change your view of my opinion - of course not!

The only "benefit" would be that you and your "there are no cheaters" buddies could troll me in-game, no?

We can't agree that there is no cheating in this game but the ban was legitimate because it is logically fallacious.

I'm glad you realize this, good job!

I neither questioned who you are nor did I request proof of your identity.

So you are a healer for a good pvp guild - ok good for you.

 

But enlighten me, how does that make you an expert on hacks and exploits?

 

I'm 2 generations removed from social media. I'm not on facebook, twitter, etc. because I value my pricacy.

Apparently in your world, being private means being wrong?

Would my identity change your view of my opinion - of course not!

The only "benefit" would be that you and your "there are no cheaters" buddies could troll me in-game, no?

 

I'm glad you realize this, good job!

Your trolling is getting more and more obvious but here I go. Being a private person is perfectly fine, but it means you can't make arguments from authority on the internet. Since BWs user agreement makes it so you can't furnish proof it comes down to an argument from authority. I can establish some degree of authority on the given topic based on the huge number of games I've played and the higher level of observational skills / understandings of game mechanics implied by my playing with the best. You can do no such thing, because you don't want to disclose anything about yourself. Again that is just fine as a choice, but it means you can't win this argument since BW won't let you post evidence authority arguments are what we are left with.

Your trolling is getting more and more obvious but here I go. Being a private person is perfectly fine, but it means you can't make arguments from authority on the internet. Since BWs user agreement makes it so you can't furnish proof it comes down to an argument from authority. I can establish some degree of authority on the given topic based on the huge number of games I've played and the higher level of observational skills / understandings of game mechanics implied by my playing with the best. You can do no such thing, because you don't want to disclose anything about yourself. Again that is just fine as a choice, but it means you can't win this argument since BW won't let you post evidence authority arguments are what we are left with.

Asunas this guy isn't going to give up, might as well cut your losses.

I was going to make a joke earlier - you said you healed for the best pub guild on the server and I was going to reply with "When did you start healing for Deadweight?"

But then super troll got started. Just let him spout - the good part about him being private and not identifying himself is that you won't get irritated seeing him in game.

This thread has run its course, and ended where I thought it would. I don't see anyone else coming in with any real further arguments, and we seem to be at the point where we just try to come up with non related items to discredit the other.

For starters the original purpose of the thread was to bring to light the thread on Darth hater. Then devolved into an argument of two stances. One that Bio ware is taking accusations of hacking by subscribers, and arbitrarily banning them to appease the masses. The other being that hacking is so prevalent that whole guilds are doing it regularly.

I will make another argument, one that I believe is a middle of the road stance. The truth will probably never be known as we really have to start working on assumptions when we get right down to it, and we lack the needed data to really "know" whats going on.

I believe its entirely possible that hacks do exist. However I also believe that they are very hard to come by, or bioware is quick to find them, and fix them, otherwise I would of seen it myself, or known more people to experience it.. As it stands now I have only met one person who has made a credible hacking accusation, and despite my almost addictive consistancy of queing for warzones on many toons, i personally have not seen anything that stands out as an obvious hack. They exist, but I seriously doubt many people with a developed character and a paid subscription are using them, as few have ever been banned. Its based on assumptions though. As far as the whole "whole guilds are doing it", i think this would be very, very, VERY hard to pull off. The only way a hack can remain, is if bioware doesnt know about the loophole in its coding, or bioware is powerless to stop it. The latter would only be true if thousands of players were seen doing it, and they let it slide to retain money, and if that were the case more of us would of seen it. The prior(BW not knowing) could only be true if everyone that knew about it were to keep it under wraps. The average gamer however does not display these traits however. Too many people switch guilds, post there finds on boards, and brag about it through videos or other means. The chances that entire groups are hacking, and no one has screwed up, and posted videos of it, is pretty far fetched.

As far as Sorexoxo is concerned. I have not seen him hack personally. I know of the accusations made of him, and I know that Bioware did an investigation, and found something they didn't like. Banning someone isnt usually a regular practice, unless they have some form of proof that they are violating the terms in some way. Until you know what they found we really cant come to a conclusion. No one can really prove it, or disprove it, except bioware, and I doubt they are going to come forward, as they gain nothing. Arguing about it isnt going to get you anywhere, because we lack needed data to come to a conclusion.

TL:DR

Hacking most likely exists, but is probably very hard to do, as very few people are actually seen doing it, and this thread is pretty much just beating a dead horse right now.

Your trolling is getting more and more obvious but here I go. Being a private person is perfectly fine, but it means you can't make arguments from authority on the internet. Since BWs user agreement makes it so you can't furnish proof it comes down to an argument from authority. I can establish some degree of authority on the given topic based on the huge number of games I've played and the higher level of observational skills / understandings of game mechanics implied by my playing with the best. You can do no such thing, because you don't want to disclose anything about yourself. Again that is just fine as a choice, but it means you can't win this argument since BW won't let you post evidence authority arguments are what we are left with.

Ok good, you healed in a lot games - again, how does that relate to hacking/exploiting?

So far, your entire argument is based on "I play for a leet guild hence I know everything!"

But since you claim "superior observational skills", tell me this:

Do you know how a lag switch works and what it would look like in game?

Do you know how speedhacks or teleporting works?

Do you know how GCD hacks work and what that would look like?

Please demonstrate your expertise, not just empty bravado. I could - can you?

Ok good, you healed in a lot games - again, how does that relate to hacking/exploiting?

 

So far, your entire argument is based on "I play for a leet guild hence I know everything!"

 

But since you claim "superior observational skills", tell me this:

Do you know how a lag switch works and what it would look like in game?

Do you know how speedhacks or teleporting works?

Do you know how GCD hacks work and what that would look like?

 

Please demonstrate your expertise, not just empty bravado. I could - can you?

In an effort to find out who you were(bored and curious) I saw that you have a long history of seeing hacking in action. Someone of your experience though should have some form of recording.....pics maybe....You have been experiencing hacking for so long now surely you must have something....anything?

Edit: Added moar nouns, for clarification.

Ok good, you healed in a lot games - again, how does that relate to hacking/exploiting?

 

So far, your entire argument is based on "I play for a leet guild hence I know everything!"

 

But since you claim "superior observational skills", tell me this:

Do you know how a lag switch works and what it would look like in game?

Do you know how speedhacks or teleporting works?

Do you know how GCD hacks work and what that would look like?

 

Please demonstrate your expertise, not just empty bravado. I could - can you?

i dont think u can mate

Asunas this guy isn't going to give up, might as well cut your losses.

 

I was going to make a joke earlier - you said you healed for the best pub guild on the server and I was going to reply with "When did you start healing for Deadweight?"

 

But then super troll got started. Just let him spout - the good part about him being private and not identifying himself is that you won't get irritated seeing him in game.

lol fuzzy, DW knows GT has their number, though I"m sure they have been developing some master plan to change that. Anyway its your guild FR that means I can't irrefutably say I'm healing for the best guild on the server . Ah well I figured I'd bash the trolls head in enough times that everyone would be able to see his trolliness and I think I've accomplished that.

lol fuzzy, DW knows GT has their number, though I"m sure they have been developing some master plan to change that. Anyway its your guild FR that means I can't irrefutably say I'm healing for the best guild on the server . Ah well I figured I'd bash the trolls head in enough times that everyone would be able to see his trolliness and I think I've accomplished that.

Agreed on all counts Asunas.

Also Airwolf, you did so well wrapping it up - your tl;dr made perfect sense. You don't have to come back and defend against the troll. Just let him do his thing - we'll all read his posts and take them with a grain of salt - and since he doesn't want to identify his in game character (which is definitely ok!), he's not someone whose posts you'll be reminded of when you see him in game.

In an effort to find out who you were(bored and curious) I saw that you have a long history of seeing hacking in action. Someone of your experience though should have some form of recording.....pics maybe....You have been experiencing hacking for so long now surely you must have something....anything?

 

Edit: Added moar nouns, for clarification.

Oh I do, and plenty of it!

I record many of my wzs on the different servers I play.

When something happens, I review it and then file my tickets. Often, I can tell EAware exactly how it was done.

But I'm not into publicly humiliating people, not even cheaters, so you won't find anything posted here or youtube.

Neither will I call out players in general chat, or name names of individuals or guilds on this forum.

My goal is simply to clean up this game.

Which is not easy, in part due to EAware's lousy code, their hush-hush attitude about cheating, their desire not to lose any subscribers, and last but not least, all those "there are no cheaters" trolls, covering for their buddies, their guilds or their own transgressions.

So I will continue to watch, report, and sometimes explain to players how certain exploits work - an educated player base is the best weapon against cheaters.

lol fuzzy, DW knows GT has their number, though I"m sure they have been developing some master plan to change that. Anyway its your guild FR that means I can't irrefutably say I'm healing for the best guild on the server . Ah well I figured I'd bash the trolls head in enough times that everyone would be able to see his trolliness and I think I've accomplished that.

The master plan has been convincing my old team to come back.

jk